If something happened, it shouldn't be too long now for it to work its way through the rumor mill down to us...
Potentially ominous. These cats (or at least some of them) have already derailed the MP twice; but I think the third time's the charm for us.This isn't about SSPX...no, it's much more fundamental. The Holy Father knows that we have to save and preserve Catholic liturgical tradition and he sees that the effective rupture in the liturgical trdition hs called so much more into question.I think he's set his hand to the plough and steeled himself for this one.
I read the report this morning, and was thrilled that maybe the Holy Father called all these people together and revealed the Motu Proprio and the date for it's release. Another contributor suggested it was just a gathering to wish the Holy Father "Happy Birthday" (April 16th)But I never thought of something like as ole doc farmer suggests (like an emergency meeting, or a protest by curial over the Motu Proprio trying to crush it).Let's pray it's something good...like finally it's done and the Motu Proprio will be released and become Church law.If it's something bad, then the Vatican Curia is more filled with corruption that I thought. Another St. Pius X, or Ven. Pius XII is what we need. Does Benedict XVI have it in him to stick to the True Faith and the Motu Proprio?Let's pray that He does.
It's Italian, sadly, not Latin.We don't know what happened. It's part of the daily press release from the Vatican, announcing that the Pope met with the heads of all the curial departments at 10am today. There's no announcement as to what it was about.However, it's extremely unusual. The Pope has begun to hold these sessions, but there have only been a small handful of them so far, and previously they have been announced in advance, I believe, with a list of topics to be discussed. The traditional liturgy has been among them.Naturally, therefore, one wonders what is going on. Since the Pope is not a narcissist, I doubt he called a cabinet meeting on a Saturday to wish himself happy birthday. There is either something urgent that he wanted to consult about, or to tell them...
Perhaps its like a courtsey meeting by the Pope. As we all know, he presided over a similar meeting of his Heads of Dicasteries in the past to ask them for their advice regarding the Classic Liturgy; so perhaps now He called them in to let them formally know of the action He intends to take.
I can't wait to find out the news. But I do think it's something big....and I do think that it's about the fact that the Motu Proprio has been signed, dated and will be published at a specific date and that all the Curia is expected to "fall into step" so to speak. Hopefully ,"Or Else!" with regards to a few of these men.
I hope this is what we have been waiting for from Pope Benedict.All I can say is this:Oremus Pro Pontifice Nostro Benedictum. Dominus conservet eum et vivicet eum et beatam faciat eum in terra, et non tradat eum in animam inimicorum ejus. Amen.
May God Bless you, Holy Father!And if they disagree with you,feel free to lovingly clunk theirheads together like Moe, andhelp them to see your wisdom.Francis
I don't get it: why are there bishops who oppose the motu proprio? With dwindling mass attendence, the ascendance of of modernism and mass heresy; clown masses, widespread use of contraception (that least understood, but most insideous, sin), abortion acceptance among "Catholics"; pederasts, pedophiles, purveyors of pornography and the general acceptance of gay unions among Catholics", why can't the Bishop of Rome insert a little Tradition into things to stirr things up a bit?
I'm afraid there's another matter to consider when concerning oneself with the envisioned motu proprio that hasn't gotten enough attention yet: the implications for the Vatican II concept of "collegiality," i.e., just how the bishops are going to be dealt with in this matter.Recent commentaries in the SSPX's official press agency DICI point out that Benedict, ever the man of Vatican II, has been consistently devoted to its concept of "collegiality" in other matters, including in the recent Sacramentum Caritatis. Indeed, the question of implementations at the episcopal level is where any half-decent thing coming out of Rome gets turned into a meaningless document.Building on this, commenters on the "Angelqueen" forum have pointed out that the likely consequence for any priest who takes advantage of whatever a MP would concede is to become victim of any number of subtle (and not-so-subtle) acts of retaliation on the part of his neo-Modernist bishop ... which persecution will leave him twisting in the wind as Rome provides no redress, citing — you guessed it — "collegiality," in the premise of the right of the local bishop to govern his diocese. And I'm afraid that these skeptics have their point. The real proof-in-the-pudding will come in considering (1) whether this motu proprio will have provisions for the safe-conduct of priests with respect to their antitraditional bishops, and more importantly still, (2) whether the Holy See has the courage and determination to actually provide redress to priests who are persecuted for making use of the MP's provisions. The SSPX doesn't think the will is really there, based on what's been seen so far on the collegiality front in other matters. And until I see otherwise, I have to admit, I don't either. The crisis will continue. — Somerset '76
When one considers that the last MP concerning the Traditional Mass was a stick in the eye of Traditionalists, Somerset '76 does seem to have a point.
Benedict XVI is the new era of the Tridentine Latin Mass. He will save the Church from the clutches of the Free Masions. He will save the Church from the Bishops,who are running after money.By G.ALEX BENZIGER, Madras, India.
According to the German News of Radio Vatican, Fr. Lombardi (the Holy See's spokesman) said the only topic of the meeting was the situation of the Church in Latin America with regard to the Papal visit to Brazil from 9 to 14 May.See: http://www.radiovaticana.org/ted/Articolo.asp?c=128354
"commenters on the "Angelqueen" forum have pointed out that"I wouldn't gauge reality based on any sampling of comments from the "Angelqueen" forum!
People misunderstand collegiality. Collegiality is when the management of the church is shared. So-called collegiality does NOT have to be present when the pope declares truths and policies regarding truth simply because the truth is what it is.If the pope believes "As we pray then we believe," then he can declare as he wishes about the mass because it is his vocation to protect the doctrinal foundation in which we believe.
Yes, Berolinensis, it does seem that the distressing situation of the Church in Latin America was the main topic of the meeting of the heads of dicasteries.It is time, perhaps, for a new edition of our "Aparecida Notes"...
Anonymous, why? They're not any more or less reliable than our translators, or for that matter, some of our bishops.
I think that the "collegial" issue is of extreme importance with regards to the practical application of any MP. Without some very strict guidelines, there will be nothing stopping the local Ordinary from using a multitude of methods is removing/isolating an MP priest.An example of de facto schism is the May 18, Wanderer interview with Archbishop Burke regarding the state of all the Sacraments per the 1962 Missal.If - according to the Archbishop - Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos says that it is the mind of the Pope that Catholics may receive ALL the Sacraments according to the 1962 Missal - then why are not bishops complying? Do they not wish to be of one mind with that of the Supreme Pontiff? Thus, without real teeth, without the Pope having real, concrete power within the diocese - without the conduit being clean and direct between the Faithful and Pope - then, I'm afraid, the same conduit will be blocked up (as it presently is) by the vast, vast majority of bishops and the neo-modernist establishment.
This issue of collegiality came up in a discussion I had with my pastor about the use of Latin in the liturgy. He was in the process of explaining to me that people who want the traditional Latin Mass do so purely from sentimentality and he told me that my faith is based on "feelings". He said that Vatican II made it possible for us to understand the Mass now that it's in the vernacular and we know what the words mean. I told him that the documents of Vatican II do not recommend getting rid of Latin. He said that documents since Vatican II mainly recommended Latin only in international masses, refering to Sacarmentum Caritatis. I told him about the error in the translation which could be found on the Vatican website. His response was that it doesn't matter what the exhortation says because it's just the pope and the bishops are against him. He said that because of collegiality the pope has to speak in union with the bishops. He told me that the pope is wrong about the liturgy, that we have to focus on Christ in one another. All the mysticism and solemnity are just about feelings. We all have to grow in our faith so that we can celebrate Mass as it is truly meant to be celebrated. It's all about us!If the Holy Father doesn't provide ways to have priests have the freedom to say the Mass, including some place to say it, the MP is just going to be ignored.
Do they distribute talking points to these folks? I just had a similar conversation with a cleric concerning collegiality. When the MP comes out, I have a feeling we're going to be hearing a lot about how the Pope ignored Vatican II by issuing the MP against the will of the vast majority of bishops.
No, anonymous, on the contrary, according to church law, the bishops as a group have no juridical authority. Individually, in order to be speaking with the mind of the church it is they who must speak with the Pope, not the ohter way around.In fact, the Pope can speak authoritatively by himself or with the bishops, but the bishops without the pope are not authoritative, even if every single last one of them lines up against the pope.This was nearly tested in the Arian controversy, where 80% of the Church became Arian before it was over.
PS, anonymous, your priest is ordained, so he can give you the sacraments okay, but personally he's a bit of a wild card. I'd be careful what I ask him and expect to get a straight answer about.It's too bad, but this is not at all uncommon.
Believe me, MichiganCatholic, I know full well the veracity of what you are saying. My point was that, once the MP comes out, the libs will say that the Pope was not excersing collegiality (according to their skewed definition).
"that we have to focus on Christ in one another."Cogito-ergo-sum-immanentism -anathema sit, and drop dead whilst you're about it. "Do they distribute talking points to these folks?"They = fallen angels.
Oremus pro Pontifice nostro.
I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but the impromptu meeting of his Holiness and the dicasteries was about the trip to Latin America. Or so says a commentor on the New Liturgical Movement blog as per Recta Ratio.Don't misunderstand me, I to believe the motu proprio will come out, but it seems as if the meeting was not about the motu proprio.I blogged about this bit of information if you want a full and complete recap.
Here's an odd thing I just noticed:http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9105The CNA article about the meeting is under the headline "Motu Proprio" and proceeds to speculate that the discussion dealt with that document and the forthcoming letter to Chinese Catholics. It also speculates that the MP may be accompanied by a study on the subject by experts, which is the first time I've seen that suggestion.All very odd, given the Vatican Radio statement concerning South America. After all, the CNA isn't an agency one would imagine would be "talking up" the MP. Maybe it was just sloppy journalism, or written before the author had heard the official statement. Or maybe the official statement wasn't complete...
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