Rorate Caeli

We told you so...

As predicted here a few days ago, the preposterous attacks against the Mass have started, BBC Europe leads the charge:
Pope Benedict's plans to revive the Latin Mass, which includes prayers for the conversion of Jews, is causing concern among Catholic and Jewish groups about relations between their faiths.

18 comments:

poeta said...

This shows what the battle is really about-- the preservation of indifferentism.

Ioannes said...

That is exactly why none of them has "concerns" with the Novus Ordo. If it quacks like a duck...

Hebdomadary said...

The media need to be told, and in no uncertain terms, that the Catholic church's relationship with itself preceeds its relations with any other faith. That relationship is currently badly out of balance. Only when that relationship has been balanced and clarified can any other faith truly know WHO they are in a relationship with when it comes to the Catholic religion. That should be (and in most cases is) more important to them than false, superficial ecumenism.

Expect the novus ordite left to stoke the media frenzy.

Cerimoniere said...

Yes, indeed, to all of the above. This is the beauty of their desperation. They are now compelled to bring out every reason why they really hate tradition: because it is the perfect expression and safeguard of the faith.

Nothing could make clearer that they prefer the new rite because it makes it easier for them to teach a new religion, and that it is because the old rite prevents them from doing so that they hate it and will do anything to destroy it.

Anonymous said...

People over-react and misunderstand our intentions as Catholics all too often - it amazes me the level of their sensitivity and idiocy - truth be damned seems to be the modus operandi with respect to these people.

The fact of the matter, a group of Jews were responsible for Christ's death. Saying the "Jews were responsible for Christ's death" is a fact reported by the various authors of the New Testament. Qualifying "which" Jews were responsible would be prudent in any discussion or communication of course. Obviously not "All" Jews were responsible – nor would any good Christian - Catholic or otherwise claim this to be the case.

Wishing or hoping for the conversion of the Jews or anyone not accepting our faith – Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Pagan, etc. is nothing more than a charitable act on behalf of the faithful. Why wouldn't we as Catholics hope in others sharing in our beloved faith? It is no different than wishing for the poor to share in our bounty - or the sick or weak to share in our good health and strength. What is wrong with praying for the conversion of the Jews?

I certainly wouldn’t have a problem with any of these faiths praying for my conversion. Knowing that if they truly believe (as we do) that it is founded on charity in their hearts, minds, and souls – which is simply based on their point of reference and belief system.

It would be understandable, conversely, this being a problem, if we had ill intentions in our hearts.

However, our intention is pure and charitable - we wish for all people of the world to share in the virtues and the grace our Lord bestows upon us through Faith, Hope, and Charity - as well as the bountiful gifts that being in communion with the one true Catholic faith, provides for us faithful Catholics.

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.

Con fides,

Mark

Anonymous said...

This is just a specious reason. Remember they used it before The Passion of the Christ came out too.

We will go forward!

Ave Maria!

John L said...

I've read the Talmud, or parts of it - it is thirty-six volumes long. It consists of comments by various Rabbis on Jewish law. There are indeed a few anti-Christian comments from various rabbis quoted in it, but the idea that its purpose is to be an anti-Christian tract is ridiculous; these comments take up about a page of the thirty-six volumes. A lot of it is fanciful invention about details of laws supposedly given to Moses on Mount Sinai; however, some of it is valuable. The valuable parts include what is really natural law reasoning about morality or fairly sensible legisation, but also religious teachings that go back to before the time of the Lord - as e.g. in the Ethics of the Fathers; some of these teachings would probably have been given by the Lord himself. The obvious fact that Jews need to be converted to Christ has nothing to do with any alleged 'Judaic-masonic' conspiracy. There is clearly a Masonic conspiracy against the Church - if you want to call it a conspiracy, since the Masons are not really secretive about hating Catholicism and wanting to destroy it. But the idea that Jews are all conspiring to destroy the Church, and are among its number one enemies, is absurd, and borders on mental illness. Religious Jews don't like the Church but they don't concern themselves much with it or know anything about it. Secularist Jews attack the church - since they are secularists; and they do it well because they are competent, just as Jewish scientists, businessmen, etc., do well because they are unusually competent. However they are obviously not the most significant danger for the church - that danger comes from people who were baptised as Catholics, and often hold office within the Church. This protest is a clear instance - would it have happened if the modernists involved had not promoted it? Worrying about Jewish conspiracies, as well as being repugnant, is a way of hiding from reality - looking at imaginary dangers rather than facing up to the real and very menacing ones right on our doorstep. It is a failing that Catholic traditionalists need to eradicate.

Anonymous said...

Don´t we pray for the conversion of all mankind????????????

sub Umbra Mortis said...

’m afraid that this has been coming down the pike for quite a while. I was just told today (possibly on the cusp of the MP) that I might not be able to say the Traditional Rite Mass much longer in my diocese. I’m devastated and heartsick. (Pray for me).

If this MP doesn’t come soon, and if it doesn’t fulfill some of our basic expectations as traditional Catholics, then the politically correct, syncretistic and compromising will ultimately prevail once again. I can assure you they won’t give up with out a fight--- and their starting to scrimmage just before the big battle begins, as this article demonstrates. We must be united against such a vast host of confrontation via prayer and consistent apologetics and argumentation.

j hughes dunphy said...

Thank you HEBDOMADARY for your astute commentary on the Church and false ecumenism i.e. the so-called untouchable relationship Catholicism is supposed to have with Judaism, which we can see here is only another luciferian conspiracy to cloud the truth about the Tridentine Mass by the media.

"The very nature of satanic deception itself must be operative in a soul to become an apostle of false charity with this so-called popularized love of God and neighbor today, which feigns affection and is really an advocate of flattery to achieve its nefarious purposes." This is the 'modus operani' of the liberal media, be it Catholic or secular, which the late Fr. John Hardon, S.J. once defined as "a luciferian conspiracy against the truth."
By the way, this great saintly priest is now up for canonization for his holiness in teaching as a great apologist of the twentieth century and his heroic Catholic life and works. This great priest -apologist amplifies in his writings what HEBDOMADARY has said that the Catholic Church's relationship with itself and its truths is more important than "a false, superficial ecumenism." For Fr. John Hardon, once said the real test of living the Catholic faith is whether or not one is practicing , in particular, the eighth beatitude: "Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
You can bet if you are not being persecuted for what you say about the Catholic faith these days, then it is probably some "incomplete relationship of
Catholicism with itself" as our wise colleague HEBDOMADARY has clarified so accurately."
j hughes dunphy
http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com

Anonymous said...

can't get much clearer than this. the traditional latin mass is the scourge of the devil. he must hate it to attack it using the tired argument that it is "antisemitic". this reaction by the deranged liberals only proves orthodox catholics correct.

i will say that antisemitism is inherently anti-catholic. after all, our faith is through the jews and our most glorious and blessed mother--the imaculate and ever virgin Mary, was a jew.

Sed Contra said...

Let's be honest. The problem that these people have is not with the Motu Proprio. It runs much deeper. Their problem at root is with the Gospel:

"Teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost". (St. Matthew 28:19)

michigancatholic said...

Sed contra's right about the underlying problem.

This is just the media freaking out. The next week or so ought to be full of it.

Pascendi said...

The more the attacks the more reason it must be "freed".

Obviously it is interesting that the secular press is aware of the power of this Mass, its beauty, its Truth and its full expression of Catholicism.


Every frenzied attack only confirms those who have fought so long to preserve the true Mass.

Jeff said...

They are taking two steps forward and one step back all the time. How far can they be from taking our kids away if we teach them that homosexuality is wrong? How far can they be from trying to force us to ordain women priests or shut us down if we don't? The "New Atheism", which teaches that religion is insanity and wickedness and child-abuse is doing a booming business these days and its screeds are on the best seller lists...

Paradoxically, it may be the Muslims--inimical though they be to us--that may save us from all this by refusing to put up with it for themselves. The secularists have not yet decided whether to oppose Islam by banning all religion or simply to take sides with the Muslims because they are a power that they, with their childlessness and their weak-as-water inanities cannot battle...

Anonymous said...

Jeff:

There is something to what you say. To my surprise I discovered that the Muslims are not unaware of the situation of the mass. A Muslim student I had in class wanted to see thow Catholics worshipped and asked me if I would take to mass. He had gotten permission from his imam who said it was alright as long as it wasn't the new mass but the mass as it had existed when Islam came into being. He explained that while Islam recognized Christians as non-idolaters in a qualified sense. This applied only to those who existed when Islam came into being. Protestants, e.g., he considered idolaters and their women have to convert in order to marry Muslims. The Council held in Rome in the 60's, the imam believed, had introduced changes that threatened to make the Catholic church into a protestant-like body. One change was the way they worshipped.

I took the student to mass at St. Ethelreda's, Ely Place here in London. It was the old rite. The celebrant Fr. Jean Charles-Roux, a staunch defender of the mass as it was prior to Vatican Council II. (He use to say mass on the set when Mel Gibson was filming the Passion in Rome.) The women all covered their heads. It was a said mass. The student was duly impressed and couldn't imagine that the Church had thrown out this "pure vehicle of prayer," to quote the student.

prof. basto said...

The best thing the Vatican could do right now, if the motu proprio is really coming to light on May 5th, Feast of St. Pius V in the Tridentine Calendar, is to schedule for that date a Press Conference for the presentation of the document.

I know that often motu proprios are made public without a press conference, the text thereof being simply posted on the Bulletin of the Holy See press offfice, but the issue of the Holy See communiqué setting the date for such a Press Conference would quash all speculation on the irreversibility of the Pope´s intentions and make the liberal attempts of spoling the party - such as that groundless claim of anti-semitism - useless.

Wouldn´t it be nice if the communiqué scheduling the Press Conference and the presentation of the document for May 5th were published on April 30th, feast of St. Pius V in the Pauline Calendar?

Jeff said...

Anonymous:

The ferment in Islam is fascinating stuff.

The other side to the coin is that for the first time in history, many, many Muslims are converting to Christianity. Mostly it is to Protestantism, though there are converts to Catholicism, including my neighbor Daniel Ali.

Perhaps in the end, secularism is a tool of God to prepare the way (among other things) for the conversion of the Muslims, in the long run at least.

Part of the great Islamic renewal and turning outwards has been the charismatic and overwhelmingly popular figure of Ahmad Deedat (now deceased).

Deedat was a brilliant debater and his trick was to debate Christians and "prove" from the text of the Bible that Jesus was not God and that Islam was true. He is a marvellous and formidable rhetorician--I remember one debate in which he chides his Protestant opponent for the heresy of Patripassianism--and every young Muslim worth his salt knows about him. It's very much worth watching his debates on YouTube.

But the end result is that Muslims--many Muslims--are now reading the Bible for themselves!

That Yeast keeps working away in the dough as the implications of the Kingdom in our midst come to fruition...