Rorate Caeli
Updates

1. Brian Mershon returns with an outstanding article: SSPX in schism? You can believe Fr. Newman... or you can believe the Church

2. Are there still reactions of Catholic authorities to the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum worth recording? Add them to our large collection here.

18 comments:

finegan said...

With any luck, Brian Mershon's new article will dispel some of the unfair (and frankly, vengeful) attacks on the SSPX. This is a wonderfully written, well-documented article. I'll be curious to see how our "conservative" Catholic brethren spin out of this one...

Big Dog said...

So here is my problem with the SSPXers. Mershon admits that Lefebvre and the 4 bishops were indeed excommunicated. So why would you attend the masses of a group of excommunicated clerics? Would these SSPXers applaud liberals who attend some mass offered by an excommunicated liberation theologian priest? Or, if some US bishop were excommunicated, would they champion the laity who attended his masses? Of course not. The SSPX authoritarians would demand those laypersons be excommunicated.

I can see attending an SSPX chapel in an emergency, but now, after the Motu, I can see little reason to attend an SSPX chapel. They need to normalize their relationship to the Church. If the SSPX were truely "A OK" with the Church, then why would all the SSPX chapel-goers be adamantly attacking anyone who notes that the SSPX bishops are excommunicated (and thus in schism!)?

Oh, by the way, I attend the Tridentine mass every weekend...haven't been to a novus ordo in three years....so don't call me a "conservative" so you can feel better about yourself.

YoungCatholicSTL said...

Good call from Big Dog. If anyone's interested, I've posted a quite lengthy list of concerns that I, as someone who once considered a vocation to the FSSP, have with the SSPX. I guess I'm just not conservative enough (and apparently my readers who agree with me aren't either). Anyways, check it out at www.youngcatholicstl.blogspot.com

-- YoungCatholicSTL

Woody Jones said...

I have enough trouble policing my own soul without spending my time judging others in the Church. This constant Catholic intra-Church judgmentalism is very disedifying. What about "internal reconciliation"?

eric g. said...

I'm sorry, I simply cannot agree with Mershon.

To my knowledge, almost none of the many dissenting groups under the "Call to Action" umbrella have been excommunicated. Would Mershon justify my assisting at a Mass with priests from the gay-group "Dignity" on the grounds that "Dignity" priests are just suspended, not excommunicated?

Anonymous said...

Maybe now things will change now, I agree that SSPX contributed for keeping TLM alive and paid great price for it, however, there is a worrying tendency to criticise and scritunise almost everything which come out of Rome. I know this from experience. Anyone who is in any contact with NO or even Indult is 'unclean' to ultra-SSPX. Very sad. If Our Lord thought like this He would have never dined under Pharisee roof, or never let 'unclean' Magdalene touch his feet. But I hope that things could go better now.

Anonymous said...

However, there is another side of the story. Motu Proprio was very much needed document, it clarified status of TLM, stating it has never been abrogated , and hopefully it will help mainstream Church goers to change their attitude to those who attend TLM. The attitude not much different from SSPX toward NO and indult people. The other problem is that Motu Proprio in most Churches is not advertised at all, average NO person has no idea!
In many Churches nothing has been said. Maybe it will be officially announced on 14th September?

Anonymous said...

There is a link to Bp Williamson comments on Motu Proprio - how full of contradictions it is etc, etc, etc.
http://dinoscopus.blogspot.com/2007/08/moto-proprio-part-iii.html

I do not know how accurate it is, but is very typical cryticism. By the way, once i read interview with Bp Williamson where he confessed that as a convert from Anglicanism he has not very much developed attachment to the Pope and Rome. Some people pray that one day he would be elected Pope. My goodness, no!

Dr. Peter H. Wright said...

From what he is reported to have said, Fr. J Scott Newman would appear to be wrong.

Tom S. said...

I think Mershon's article was dead-on. In many places, the SSPX is the only option for those who want a reverent, respectful Mass - old rite or new.

If you are lucky enough to have a tridentine mass available to you, that's great, but very few people in the US do. And the motu proprio hasn't changed that one bit - at least at this point. In my diocese, it hasn't even been mentioned. And polite inquiries have been politely brushed off.

I haven't been to a tridentine mass in 40 years, but if I had an SSPX chapel reasonably close by, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Anonymous said...

This is what I said in my post above, in ordinary Parishes nobody even heard about MP. Let us be realistic, Bishops do not have to bother do put it down etc, people just do not have slightest idea, they are just not informed about MP and Tridentine Mass. This is something Trads need to work on, some information, booklets, I do not know, but I am sure there are wise people around who can work out some strategies.

Anonymous said...

big dog, it was only the SSPX bishops who were excommunicated, not the priests. So you can't call the entire SSPX "a group of excommunicated clerics."

Now, I can't answer for Mr. Mershon as to whether he would refrain from attending a Mass celebrated by one of the four SSPX bishops. But the Society's rank-and-file priests are neither excommunicated nor schismatic. If they were, why would the Ecclesia Dei Commission ever say it was permissible to attend their chapels under the right circumstances?

Anonymous said...

At the cathedral in Atlanta Georgia ( USA )next Friday there will be a talk by the head of the office of worship about Summorum Pontificum the Tridentine Mass and what is different between the novus ordo and the Tridentine Mass. This will be a talk by a novus ordo priest to a novus ordo group so it will be intertesting to see what is said and what the reactions will be.

finegan said...

"Oh, by the way, I attend the Tridentine mass every weekend...haven't been to a novus ordo in three years....so don't call me a conservative so you can feel better about yourself."

No, based on the inaccuracies presented in comments, I wouldn't call you a conservative at all. I think "confused Traditionalist newbie" would be more accurate.

tmass said...

Hey big dog, I attend Masses offered by the SSPX. I don't know anyone who would applaud anything to do with liberation theology, mainly do to the fact it has nothing to do with traditional Catholic theology. Hence the main problem with your point of view.
Secondly, to point out the SSPX Bishops are not in schism does not constitute an attack, but in all honesty is to defend Truth. God Bless.

Pascendi said...

The Mershon article is not a treatise, but merely a reminder as to the opinions of a number of high ranking churchmen who have more authority than the personal opinions of parish priests.

Anonymous said...

Will someone please tell me why Fr. J. Scott Newman's opinion matters at all?

Janice

gjmjsaf said...

Hello to everyone.My comment is this,if the SSPX did not exhist there would be no latin mass for any one.The only reason there was an indult is that the SSPX has been there ready to accept all who hold the true Catholic faith.In case any of you do not know,The SSPX is all over the world we are growing by leaps and bounds.In Nov. last year the SSPX asked all of it's members to pray the Rosary for this very MP.One and one half million Rosarys were prayed and presented to the Holy Father for Christmas last year.So before you start to bad mouth the SSPX you need to stop and think how this MP became possible.It is becuse of us without us there would not be an indult much less the MP.