Rorate Caeli

"To the right of the Vatican"

A French documentary (nearly an hour long) on the Traditionalist movement:

28 comments:

Christoher J. Paulitz said...

How does an ignorant American get his hands on some English subtitles?

Anonymous said...

This is an excellent documentary, perhaps the only one in any language which has done that unheard of thing: it has let the traditionalists speak for themselves, without hostile commentary.
If you follow French at all well, you really owe it to yourself to make the effort to understand what those speaking have to say. We will all have our favorites - for me it is the tired looking mother, probably not particularly highly educated, who nevertheless speaks the Truth about God and man with a simplicity and a purety which is admirable.

And then of course there is the "haute figure" of Msgr Lefebvre himself. With every passing day his greatness becomes more and more luminously clear.
A saint and a hero: the right man at the right time.

Anonymous said...

Another ignorant American would like subtitles.

Anonymous said...

Subtitling can be done for $1000-$1500 for a 60 Minute show.

Translation services are usually between 20 cents and 35 cents a word.

Hoping that someone actually has subtitling in English out there.

LeonG said...

Deo Gratias!

humboldt said...

I would like subtitles too!

Anonymous said...

"Another ignorant American would like subtitles."

Anonymous
Can you give us another solution how we, who are not given the oppurtunity to learn French, may translate this film?
Thank you for your charitable outlook.
Cruise the Groove

Father G said...

It's astonishing that this was aired on FR3...not known for its unbiased "reportage". Otherwise a very well done piece...

Vraiment...on doit aimer les Tradis Français!

Jack said...

May I remind people that traditionalism doesn't rest only in liturgical and devotional practice?

Charity, humility, patience, forebearance, and not judging others are traditional, too.

These, likewise, need to be preserved and fostered in ALL rites within the Catholic communion of Churches.

Adam P. said...

OK, wow, amazing documentary. Really lets the Trads explain their case for themselves.

I speak French since I live in Quebec - glad my mother sent me to grade school in French!

In my workplace there are two Catholics who recently underwent the sacrament of marriage in the Roman Catholic church. And yet neither of them believe that the Sunday obligation is binding, despite it being a mortal sin.

As a convert to Catholicism from Evangelicalism/Charismatic Christianity (I was baptized this Easter) I find such behaviour from supposed Catholics absolutely puzzling.

So what I see here in this documentary is that Trads actually (shocker!) take the Pope, the Church, the Magisterium, seriously. And looking at things like the use of artificial birth control among Catholics, the warnings of Msgr Lefebvre about the results of V2 sure make a whole lot of sense.

The Trads interviewed here really have a proper understanding of the gospel - the centrality of Christ and the necessity of his redemption for salvation. And again, one of the Catholic ladies at work is married to a Hindu and sincerely believes that they worship the same God, etc.

So once the Trads are fully integrated into the Church I think they could have a major impact on the catastrophic loss of holiness and devotion among the laity.

A funny tidbit too, Serge De Beketch, deceased Trad journalist, talks about the dangers of democracy and liberalism: "what's stopping the Europhiles from marrying their goat?"

Adeodatus said...

I enjoyed it even though they were speaking Foreign.

An English transcript would be very nice. If some charitable Francophone has some time on his hands.

LeonG said...

The air-space given to the appalling injustice of the Bishop at Amiens is well illustrated. It was also a salient admonition by the ex-journalist toward the end that the bishops of France do not have the courage to condemn abortion publicly. That would apply to other significant issues for most of them concerning sodomy. The general state of the NO liturgy in France is abominable at best and utterly desolate at worst. I have witnessed some absolutely disgraceful NO services & will never forget the main offering on Christmas Day 1995 at one parish with three in the congregation at a large church near Chartres.

SSPX provide a vital service to Roman Catholics throughout France in spite of the bitter episcopal opposition and indifference elsewhere. They merit our support and thankfully they have insisted on revision of Conciliar policies.

Without them FSSP and the Institut would never have come into being. While these are more than welcome, their compromised neutral stance on more than evident conciliar shortcomings does them almost no favours at all with most postmodern bishops who despise them, acting accordingly as and when it suits them.

We need to hear more of what traditional Catholics have to say about The Church and the societies in which it serves because most of our Cardinals, bishops and priests today are moral cowards. They frequently manifest indifference to The Faith of Christ Our Blessed Saviour while behaving as though salvation is a universal right for anyone and everyone. Certainly from among all the priests I have known it is those who belong to the Confraternity that have inspired my perseverance in The Faith.

Let us hope we will see more favourable publicity for the true men of God who are ordained to the Roman Catholic priesthood by way of the traditional seminaries. The Society of Pope St Pius X is the chief source of this indispensable treasure in these darkest days.

Let us also pray Pope Benedict XVI will awake from his post-modernist slumber (using & blessing altar girls; more futile translations of the NO; ecumenically-driven liturgical initiatives, & other post-conciliar paradigmatic imperatives) and invest more of himself and his papacy in authentic traditional liturgical praxis: abandoning the Pauline NO to its deserved fate as the worst liturgical error made by any papacy in the history of The Roman Catholic Church.

Anonymous said...

Cruise the Groove,

I am Anon. from above, and I meant it seriously. I am an ignorant American who doesn't understand French. It was not meant to be a put down on anyone.

Prof. Basto said...

I haven't clicked on the link yet, but the title "to the right of the Vatican" doesn't inspire me to do so.

It implies a connection between traditionalism and "extreme-right" doesn't it, playing on some stereotipes that are derrogatory of traditional Catholicism.

Is the documentary good or one-sided against tradition? I have so many things to do right now that, if the latter option is the correct one, I won't even bother to open the link.

Mary Sexton said...

Given time and coffee I can translate French and I'm willing to give it a shot. However, my reading is better than listening and the sound quality on the Gloria.tv link, even when I clicked on 'Fast Connection,' is sort of staticky. Is there a) a better sound recording elswhere, or is it just my speakers? Or b)is there a transcription in French from which I could translate?

Also, if anyone wants to split this with me it would be better and faster. I can do some work on it this weekend but nothing very very fast.

Anonymous said...

To Prof. Basto:
This program is very definitely worth your time. It is as favorable to Tradition as anything of the sort I have ever seen.
Watch it; you won't be disappointed.
And what, pray, is wrong with being on the"extreme-right" politically? Anyway, don't let the Left define your politics for you.

Adam P. said...

Prof. Basto: the documentarian never really explains why he called his documentary "to the right of the Vatican" but it's implicit in the way he examines the conservative positions of Trads: abortion, French monarchism, criticism of liberal democracy and general desire to restore lost traditions to the church.

The documentary is very level-headed. Right off the bat, we learn that the gentleman's aunt is a Trad and wanted him to convert and he's very clear at the end that he "never will". But during the entire doc he lets the Trads do all the talking, with minor interjections.

The only criticisms I recall are: 1. He labels the Trads as "Islamophobic"
2. He puts in a jab to Msgr Williamson, saying that the Bishop thinks there's no evidence for WW2 gas chambers but that he has no problem believing that Jesus walked on water. However, he lets an SSPX priest critique Williamson. The priest says that the Bishop was speaking on a matter outside of his core competency (religion).

I don't really fault him on either count... the Trads seem pretty bombastic from the point of view of secular humanism. Overall, the doc feels extremely friendly to the Trads.

Mary Sexton: sound quality was fine for me. There's a download link on the video page, you might want to try that.

Since I learned Quebec French I sometimes have a little trouble catching every single word, especially when some of the young folk are interviewed and they speak really fast and mumble a bit.

Anonymous said...

He probably wondered why you felt the need to play to a negative stereotype of the United States. You could have simply said that - like billions of other people - you don't speak French.

Jason said...

Agreed. The only ignorant American is the apologetic American.

Long-Skirts said...

LeonG said:

"Without them FSSP and the Institut would never have come into being. While these are more than welcome, their compromised neutral stance on more than evident conciliar shortcomings does them almost no favours at all with most postmodern bishops who despise them, acting accordingly as and when it suits them."

BEFORE THE OTHERS

Before the others
One man stood
Before the others
Spoke the truth
Before the others
For the good
Before the others
Yes, forsooth,
Before the others
Gripped his staff
Before the others
Sailed the sea
Before the others
Net and gaff
Before the others
All for thee!

Sadie Vacantist said...

The documentary is surprisingly fair and the comments underneath the version I am watching suggest astonishment that it appeared on French tv.

Jordanes said...

Being American means never having to say you're sorry?

Prof. Basto said...

Thank you, Anonymous and Adam P.

I'll watch it, then.

LeonG said...

The French Cardinal Tauran's message to mahomatens during their excessively publicised fasting season is a characteristic act of post-conciliar indifferentist interreligious "dialogue". Cleverly crafted verbiage insinuates the modernist ideologies of "the dignity & the rights of man"; "religious liberty" and the myth of educating children using " school books which present religions in an objective way". How pray does one present falsehood objectively?

No message would be better & more apt. But the post-conciliar church is addicted to the endless process of unnecessary chatter with the world it is supposed to serve based on its new pastoral paradigm.

In France, one has the distinct impression that the modernist republican episcopate rejoices more over the construction of mosques and protestant temples together with its alleged "dialogue" with other faiths & creeds than it does over the idea of a restoration of Roman Catholicism in France.

Anonymous said...

We must also be grateful to those priests who stayed within their respective dioceses and have worked tirelessly for the traditional movement while undergoing great persecution from within. All too often it seems that these priests are left unremembered in the midst of things.

Sadie Vacantist said...

Everyone has absorbed the court histories of the post-war period including the hierarchies of France and the USA. These histories are enforced by Hollywood and the History Channel, the result has been the catastrophe as described by the curé in this documentary i.e. the Catholic Church became a victim of WWII as late as 1962.

Americans refuse to awaken to the reality that they were conned into 2 World Wars from which they derived no benefit. Only Israel and the USSR benefited from WWII. The former gained country, the latter an empire. Unless the USA revises its contribution to 20th Century history then I see nothing but persecution ahead for Catholics. Meanwhile we can continue to witness our hierarchies kissing secular butt as part of their dialogue with the World.

I honestly believe the future of the Catholic Church is inextricably linked to that of the USA. It is no coincidence that both the USA and the Church lost their way from 1965 onwards (exact same year). In their pre-65 state both posed a danger to certain elite groups.

Gerald said...

I hope they produce another one with subtitles in english.

Prof. Basto said...

In France, one has the distinct impression that the modernist republican episcopate rejoices more over the construction of mosques and protestant temples together with its alleged "dialogue" with other faiths & creeds than it does over the idea of a restoration of Roman Catholicism in France.

In my opinion, this is an unwanted result of the Agreement whereby the French Republic and the Church restored friendly relations in the years after their breakdown as a result of the French law of Separation.

The Briand-Ceretti agreement, still in force today, gives the French Government a say and a veto in the appointment of Catholic Bishops for France.

The Briand-Ceretti Agreement has no place in a contemporary democracy.

It runs against the freedom of the Church and is even repugnant to the principle of Church-State separation (at least, it is repugnat to a respectful separation; such State interference is only conceaveble where the principle of Separation is intended as a restriction on the Church only, and not on the State; that is, where the separation is hostile to religion and attempts to place it under State-imposed "sanitary" restrictions).

The Church must be allowed to enjoy her freedom without having to submit her episcopal appointments to the veto of civil authorities the French Republic.

The Agreement is tre reason why the French episcopate is an episcopate of whimps, one of the most spineless episcopates in the whole wide world.

There should be A CAMPAIGN for the French Republic to give up its "rights" under the Agreement, as the French State should have nothing to do with episcopal appointments.