Rorate Caeli

Question for our readers

Is there a full Ukrainian-English side-by-side version of the Divine Liturgy (of Saint John Chrysostom) available online? It may also be any web version in Ukrainian and another Western European language...

Thank you. You may also send your input directly to newcatholic AT gmail DOT com.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Let us hope that the one we access will be the 1958 in sacral English and not the substandard one now being forced on congregations.

The wreckovators are everywhere, and their intent is nothing less than to remove beauty and truth from the life of the Church.

P.K.T.P.

Mark of the Vineyard said...

This would be quite handy since the only Divine Liturgy near me is in Fátima and it is completely in Ukrainian. If possible, I would be interested in a copy/link as well.

David Werling said...

Here's the Ancient Slavonic/English.

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/liturgy_e.htm


Not sure why you would want two vernacular translations side by side ;)

Jack said...

Mark of the Vineyard: There is a Ukrainian Catholic Church somewhere in Austria that has the Ukrainian version of the Divine Liturgy on line--wish I could remember where.

PKTP--If the Church uses a given style of English (in this case) in worship, then by that act it become sacral and liturgical.

Two things to consider here.

1. Many Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) in Anglophone countries have English as a second language, which they may not speak fluently. It's against charity to throw linguistic, verbal, and stylistic stumbling blocks at their feet.

2. Unless one can handle Tudor diction with all the grace of the King James Bible and classical Books of Common Prayer (as exemplars and monuments of this liturgical style) then don't do it! I've seen too many horrible attempts such as "Thou sees," or "Thou knows"--or even using "ye" as second person SINGULAR in both nominiative and objective cases.

There is more to this style than obsolete pronouns and funny verb endings.

Luiz said...

It is celebrated here twice a month. I have a small book with a portuguese translation, but not on my PC. However, after three years attending the chapel, I don't need it anymore.

And then people say latin is difficult to learn!!! (...)

Slava Issusu Hrestu!

Irishman from Philly said...

1988 synod hierarchy of Ukrainian Catholic Church. Library if congress isbn 0-9618683-0-9. Through the Archdiocese of the Ukrainians 827 No. Franklin St Philadelphia Pa 19123. They have a book store ??? Web site address might have to google for the site. The blue book.

Anonymous said...

Jack wrote:

"
PKTP--If the Church uses a given style of English (in this case) in worship, then by that act it become sacral and liturgical."

You're kidding, right? The Church makes no claim that the quality of her translations themselves have a sacral effect.

Liturgical or sacral English is the special form used for liturgy. It has sacral effect because it is set apart for a special use, just as the Slavonic Chant is set apart from pop music.

The non-liturgical translations are the equivalent of pop music in the liturgy: they undermine what is sacred no less than does ugly art.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Jack:

We're not asking Ukrainians to speak liturgical English to one another over coffee, only to follow the correct usage as found in the Missal. As Dr. Johnson once said (a paraphrase), it is easier to know a thing than to tell it. The Ukrainian Liturgy of the 1958 translation was beautful and uplifting. The one they have now is trash, and it empties their liturgy of all its beauty.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

The only acceptable translation I've seen is the one published by the Sacred Oriental Congregation, 1959. You can get a copy from The Redeemer's Voice, Yorktown, Sask., Canada. The translation is that approved on 25 May, 1958, No. 596; Imprimatur of Constantine, Archbishop and Metropolitan of Philadelphia, 1 August, 1958, No. 767. It's beautful. What replaced it is a disaster.

Excerpt, Song of Thanksgiving afte Communion:

Let our mouths be filled with Thy praise, O Lord, so that we may sing Thy glory, for Thou hast been pleased to make us parkaters of Thy holy, divine, immortal and life-giving Mysteries. Keep us in Thy holiness so that all day long we may learn Thy law. Amen.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Dear Rorate Caeli,

I am not sure if this is of any value, but on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/

One can find a book titled:

"Service of the Divine Liturgy of our Holy Father John Chrysostom: Translated from the Greek According to the Euchologion, and Compared with the Slavonic"

Published:

London: Joseph Masters, Aldersgate Street, and New York Bond Street. MDCCCLXVI

It contains a similar prayer to that cited by P.K.T.P:

Let our mouth be filled with Thy praise, O Lord, that we may sing Thy glory: for Thou hast vouchsafed us to partake of Thy holy, immortal, and spotless mysteries. Strengthen us in Thy holiness, that we may meditate all the day on Thy righteousness. Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.

I am not that familiar with Eastern Liturgy and so this may be an Orthodox book as opposed to a Catholic book.

As an aside, the Internet Archive is a great place to build a PDF collection of Catholic Literature (thousands of pre-1920 Catholic gems). Together with an iPad, or laptop, you could carry around a Loome Theological Bookstore in your briefcase.

Bohdan said...

The Ukrainian Catholics in Austria have a website with the texts of the Liturgy in Ukrainian, English, and German. The texts aren't side by side, but they're all in one place...

http://www.ukrainische-kirche.at/?Liturgie

Anatol said...

http://www.archive.org/details/LiturgyOfSt.JohnChrysostomInUkrainian

Mark of the Vineyard said...

Many thanks to the people that posted links. With some of the files I found, I think I can make a document with the transliterated Ucrainian text side by side with the english translation!

Mark of the Vineyard said...

@ 25 November, 2010 16:10

The book you mentioned doesn't show up. Any idea?

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Internet Archive book:

use the following search term:

Leitourgikon

This is the term in the Author field of the record. It should result in only a few hits one of which is the "Service of the Divine..."

Hope that is successful for you.

Jack said...

\\The Ukrainian Liturgy of the 1958 translation was beautful and uplifting.\\

And it's no longer the approved one.

Obsolete pronouns and verb endings are not intrinsically more beautiful than contemporary usage.

Deal with it.

Anonymous said...

PKTP

"The Ukrainian Liturgy of the 1958 translation was beautful and uplifting. The one they have now is trash, and it empties their liturgy of all its beauty."

This is simply not true. If all it takes to empty a liturgy of all its beauty is a translation, then no liturgy is ever good enough. The Divine Liturgy goes far beyond languages. The Language is small part of that beauty.

Stop spewing nonsense on forums. Stop writing on forums.
Thanks,
J.

Dr. Adam DeVille said...

On-line? No--not that I know of. But the best print version was published in 2004 under Peter Galadza's editorship: *The Divine Liturgy: An Anthology for Worship*, available here: http://www.sheptytskyinstitute.ca/?page_id=60

It has a side-by-side translation (based on the synodal text of 1988), and much else besides.