Rorate Caeli

A Vatican II Moment
Hostages: Put your hands up: this is a liturgy!

From the Mass for Families celebrated by the Bishop of Belfort (France):

Therefore all should hold in great esteem the liturgical life of the diocese centered around the bishop, especially in his cathedral church; they must be convinced that the pre-eminent manifestation of the Church consists in the full active participation of all God's holy people in these liturgical celebrations, especially in the same eucharist, in a single prayer, at one altar, at which there presides the bishop surrounded by his college of priests and by his ministers.
Sacrosanctum Concilium, 41


[Tip: Perepiscopus and Le Forum Catholique]

45 comments:

beng said...

What makes this post so different than other post about liturgical abuses?

This one is even more benign (and more common) than others.

New Catholic said...

We are not even sure it qualifies as an "abuse". Does it? Is not the Bishop his diocese's "chief λειτουργός"?...

We are just not very sure it looks like a Sacrifice...

NC

rodrigo said...

"All those praying for the canonical regularisation of the SSPX, raise their hands."

shane said...

Most Novus Ordo services are so infuriatingly boring it's no wonder priests have to go creative to keep the pews occupied.

For how much longer, O Lord, will the long-suffering laity have to put up with this shit?

J. G. Ratkaj said...

o. t.: The profanation of sacred objects by wicked disbelievers continue also today morning in Rome (dat the end of the canonisation presided by the pontiff), a romanian has burnt the scripture on the colonnade of Piazza San Pietro:

http://news.daylife.com/photo/06FP3UagrP4Mj?__site=daylife&q=bible

http://news.daylife.com/photo/05lK0Lva7Pape?__site=daylife&q=bible

http://news.daylife.com/photo/0bTY50W7RQfwY?__site=daylife&q=bible

http://news.daylife.com/photo/0b9a6u13vBaaE?__site=daylife&q=bible

Hidden One said...

Does this post promote the virtue of its readers?

Tom Esteban said...

This needs more context - it may not be a Mass. It has no place in the Mass at all. Ever. Outside the Mass - who knows? I don't like it, but the Church cannot legislate what postures people take outside of Mass.

Just playing devils advocate :-D

CredoUtIntelligam said...

I am a convert to Catholicism. I was raised as a Protestant in the American South, and these gestures are from the Evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic style of worship. The raised hands indicate that you are calling down the Holy Spirit.

I used to drive 40 minutes to go to a slightly more reverent Novus Ordo than the one I am currently forced to attend out of geographical necessity. The priest at this parish was a good and orthodox priest. But one day at the end of Mass, he was going to bless students leaving for college. He called them to the front and had everyone in the congregation point their hands towards them to "call down the Holy Spirit." Of course, only the priest could give the blessing, but it was as if the priest and congregation were acting in concert.

My favorite part was when a father nudged his uncooperative teenage son to wave his hands at the students for the blessing. The son thrust his hands forward like he was casting a spell. He looked like Emperor Palpatine shooting lightning out of his hands at the end of Return of the Jedi.

Lord, please let me get a job near a Traditional Latin Mass in a year and a half!

Cruise the Groove. said...

This is in keeping with an interpretation of this passage of SC, so why not?

LeonG said...

Simon Says!

Knight of Malta said...

Beautiful! Looks like a lot of real men are in attendance too, because we LOVE this sort of stuff (to include hand-holding during the Our Father)!!

Anonymous said...

We have it at the Francican University of Steubenville, so what's the problem?


http://www.franciscanconferences.com/

New Catholic said...

Why, Steubenville! It is Fontgombault itself!

NC

Anonymous said...

This kind o thing and worse is very, very common down here in Brazil.

Also these days you can find in almost every sunday mass in Brazil (usually right after the post-communion prayer): happy birthday singing along with "Viva" and claps; homage/tributes of any sort to common people; news about not so religious things; new age and tribal dances.

Anonymous said...

To play a little more on the "put your hands up" theme (and this is off-topic), there were a group of 750(ish) traditional catholics on pilgrimage in Starkenburg, Missouri yesterday (SSPX sponsored) - and were denied access to the shrine - and threatended with arrest.

Put your rosary down, and put your hands up!!

Abusive treatment to the Fransiscan nuns that were present as well. Very sad.

Long-Skirts said...

Hidden One said...

"Does this post promote the virtue of its readers?"

Let's hope it promotes its readers to more Catholic heroic virtues!

Long-Skirts said...

Anon. 23 October, 2011 18:18
said:

"Abusive treatment to the Fransiscan nuns that were present as well. Very sad."

I was right there,as God is my witness, and there was much MUCH more, see my blog post below...

http://hilaryflanery.blogspot.com/

Peterman said...

From Saint Anne Catherine Emmerich:
August 25, 1820:
"I do not know in what manner I was taken to Rome last night, but I found myself near the Church of St. Mary Major, and I saw many poor people who were greatly distressed and worried because the Pope was to be seen nowhere, and also on account of the restlessness and the alarming rumors in the city. These people did not seem to expect the church doors to open; they only wanted to pray outside. An inner urging had led them there individually. But I was in the Church and I opened the doors. They came in, surprised and frightened because the doors had opened. It seems to me that I was behind the door, and they could not see me. There was no office on in the Church, but the Sanctuary lamps were lit. The people prayed quite peacefully."

"Then I saw an apparition of the Mother of God, and she said that the tribulation would be very great. She added that these people must pray fervently with outstretched arms, be it only long enough to say three Our Fathers. This was the way her Son prayed for them on the Cross. They must rise at twelve at night and pray in this manner; and they must keep coming to the Church. They must pray above all for the Church of Darkness to leave Rome."

So as we can see from her passage above, there is a place for praying Orans (just not during mass) and Our Lady would apparently like us to do this every evening. I personally try to do so every night at Midnight.

New Catholic said...

Is this even "orans"... (which would be an unwelcome archaeologism anyway)? Or is it just raising hands (and/or waving them) during what clearly seems to be a very chirpy and friendly tune? Back to my first comment, regardless of that...

NC

Anonymous said...

Look at the expression on the faces!! Such enthusiasm! Such love for the Novus Ordo Vatican II Mass....LOL.

The same confused, incredulous expressions on little kids faces too...as if to say "You gotta be kidding, This is B......."

Anonymous said...

What they're likely doing in the picture of course is The Our Father which with the arms overhead thing is of course just more Vat2 balderdash.

But as far as the orans themselves while in private prayer, I frequently stretch out my arms as on the cross, I enjoy it as a nice extra penance and it's hardly an unwelcome archaeologism. And since Ven. AC Emmerich wrote about seeing it, (her prophecies on the church of darkness are for our time and the future) I do it with full confidence.

Private prophecies of course are like Ripley's believe them, or not.

Anonymous said...

Let's make sure we have the big picture clearly in mind, folks.

We not only should work for the abolishment of Novus Ordo. We should get SC itself nullified as a scandal to the Catholic mind.

From there, we work toward returning Tridentine worship to at least the early 1950s, if not earlier.

And then we can rest, our successful liturgical renewal consisting 'merely' of undoing the renewal of the past 55 years.

Anonymous said...

"And since Ven. AC Emmerich wrote about seeing it, (her prophecies on the church of darkness are for our time and the future) I do it with full confidence. "

It's Saint AC Emmerich now, not Venerable.

To his credit, (the liberal Vatican II crowd hated her writings, and didn't want her cause promoted), John Paul II beatified Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich, and I believe Benedict XVI canonized her afew years ago.

Brian said...

Many Traditional Catholics delude themselves with the claim that people will flock to Tradition once the Vatican II Folk Mass Generation passes away.

At the present time, congregations who attend Charismatic / Life Teen services are growing much more rapidly than Catholics who attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Many of these people are involved in Bible Studies, prayer groups, Medjugore, World Youth Day, the Pro-Life Movement, the Cathechism, the post-VC2 Magisterium, and the Catechism. They are enthusiastic and devout and as pictured, are often young.

Let us recall that Cardinal Suenans, who was a central figure at Vatican II, was a Charismatic.

Ld Schmidt said...

You know they could all be being held up at gun point, which would truely expoain it!

Anonymous said...

The face of the little girl, third row middle, says it all.

Gratias said...

This is nothing. You should see my Novus Ordo parish forming a single chain of holding hands.

I agree with Brian that people will not simply flock back to tradition. They have to experience the Traditional Latin Mass to join us. That is why we are proscribed. Yoga is growing faster than Charismatic Catholics. The Latin Mass is necessary to keep the Faith.

RobertK said...

On the other hand, it is encouraging to see the ones that have not raised their arms.

Anonymous said...

My youngest brother is 18, but I remember ten years ago filling in for my Mom and Dad and driving him to school. One day I was invited to attend a children's Mass in the convent chapel of the nuns who ran his school....The School Sisters of Notre Dame. (Ugh...all rad femminists)
They're gone from the school now (a surprise? Not!), but back then, the six elderly nuns who were on the staff had organized a children's "Balloon Mass". It was alot like this picture....lots of singing, dancing, clapping, and all the little kids held a balloon.
At the Consecration by the priest, we were all supposed to let our balloons go and float up to the ceiling, and then applaud as loud as we could when the priest raised the Sacred Host and the Chalice.
The women lay teachers and the aged nuns called it "cheering for Jesus".
It was sick. Absolutely sick.
When my brother Shoshiru was 10, my parents took him out of this place and he went to public school like his friends. And my Mom and Dad taught him the REAL Catholic faith at home!
But his school was just like this photo....and worse.
It's alittle better now because the nuns are gone!!! LOL

John Nolan said...

acipheThere is a geezer in a white shirt (centre of picture, some rows back) with a hand mike and a black folder, who is obviously singing something to which the audience is responding as if at a rock concert. He might even be the priest - nothing surprises me about what passes for liturgy in France - leading his flock from behind, to show his solidarity with them. But then most priests love the NO because it makes them the centre of attention, so he's probably a cantor.

Ygnacia said...

Anonymous said...

This kind o thing and worse is very, very common down here in Brazil.

Also these days you can find in almost every sunday mass in Brazil (usually right after the post-communion prayer): happy birthday singing along with "Viva" and claps; homage/tributes of any sort to common people; news about not so religious things; new age and tribal dances.

23 October, 2011 18:12
.................

The very thing to send them, easily, into the waiting arms of whatever protestant sect comes along. An easy transition, as we ape, poorly, their worship services. No wonder the Faith is disappearing in Brazil and other places:

http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/10/22/in-worlds-largest-catholic-nations-youth-are-turning-away-from-faith/

Anonymous said...

The French are very neglectful of antiperspirants as well. Wouldn't want to be there.

Anonymous said...

"Many Traditional Catholics delude themselves with the claim that people will flock to Tradition once the Vatican II Folk Mass Generation passes away."

Yes. One problem that I believe exists among Traditional Catholics is the notion that you mentioned.

We encounter such notions on ths blog.

Believe it or not, the majority of Latin Church Catholics were very happy when Latin vanished (virtually) from the Latin Church.

I don't believe that the majority of Latin Church Catholics would oppose, per se, the return of the Traditional Mass to their parishes.

What they dislike is Latin. They want the mass in vernaculars.

I also believe that they prefer Mass ad populum and Communion in the Hand.

The prayers of the TLM are not what Latin Catholics oppose.

Anonymous said...

From a Rorate post earlier this month:

"Zeal in like manner has ardours which are extreme, but constant, solid, sweet, industrious, equally agreeable and untiring; whereas on the contrary, false zeal is turbulent, troubled, insolent, arrogant, choleric, transient, equally impetuous and inconstant." St Francis de Sales

INSOLENT. 1: insultingly contemptuous in speech or conduct

Anonymous said...

That's what the Catholics in my parish look like during the Our Father. Our priest told me he doesn't like it and they are not supposed to be doing it, but no one says a word to stop it.

Also, it is true. The novus ordo Mass is so boring and lacking any and all depth, that without dramatic intonations and readings and hand gestures, the average pewsitter would fall asleep. As it is, I return from it each Sunday worn out from all the violence I have to do to myself to keep from getting angry. Keeping one's eyes closed is a help. The less you see, the better off you are.

Delphina

Anonymous said...

Going on 7 years now, Benedict XVI hasn't done anything to fix anything in the Church,let alone the Mass.
Gestures are nice but accomplish nothing. Personal preference to give Holy Communion to people kneeling and on the tongue is nice, but the Pope hasn't mandated it's return. Has he? Too afraid.

And that push-cart he's using now to transport himself down the aisle at St. Peter's is ridiculous looking. It looks like something that's in our neighboring public library to get to books on overhead shelves!

OH, this wasn't Benedict XVI's idea...John Paul II used it first? Oh, I see. And we MUST do everything John Paul II did...musn't we!

Have some class. Bring back the Sedia Gestaroria!!

Anonymous said...

"Believe it or not, the majority of Latin Church Catholics were very happy when Latin vanished (virtually) from the Latin Church."

Oh? And how did you come by this knowledge? Did you poll every Catholic in the Church who remembers those days? I don't remember you asking me. And if you missed me, how many others did you miss?

Or have you been told this lie so often that you have come to believe it?

Delphina

M. A. said...

anon 1707,you said:

"What they dislike is Latin. They want the mass in vernaculars."

"I also believe that they prefer Mass ad populum and Communion in the Hand."
________________________________

That's what they get in the N.O. and Catholics are not exactly packing your parishes, are they? I hear that in my diocese the bishop will have to make "some hard choices". (Those are the nicer sounding words to indicate that the the N.O. is a disaster and a failure.)

If you ask protestants what they prefer,they certainly aren't going to request the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with its mystery, reverence and sacred language.

Long-Skirts said...

Ave Maria, gee it's good to see ya!!

Doin' the Vatican
Doin' the Vatican
Doin' the Vatican
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggg!

Genuflect,
Genuflect.

Long-Skirts said...

Here's the You/Tube song of

"Doin' The Vatican Rag."

Written during what was called by our Notre Dame nuns in 6th grade:

The Ecumenical Council...

....as shocking is the song it completely told the truth about what was playing out in our Masses in the mid-60's.

Long-Skirts said...

I think I forgot the You/Tube URL.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0

I know it sounds terrible but this was going around in the mid-60's and one of my teachers in our public high school played it for us when we were studying satire in literature and all I could do was hang my head because that's exactly how our Masses sounded.

Long-Skirts said...

OMG...I'm losing it!

This You/Tube is even better because the satarist explains what was going on at the time of Vatican II and why he chose this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YcGRNmkB00

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0

This YouTube clip was a song mocking the old ways in the Catholic Church. We should hold our heads up proudly about our traditions despite mockery, rather than hang our heads in shame?

Mostly it was/is Protestants who mocked the Church. Unfortunatly we caved in, threw out our traditions and became like them.

They didn't win because their "tradition" is garbage. But we lost everything.
Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

The longer Rome does nothing about people inventing new traditiosn out of thin air or borrowing from other Faiths thereby displacing Catholic identity, the more they will be responsible for the destruction of said identity...This is what has happened in the NO vaccumm where no gestures or movements are prescribed..In the Tridentine Mass every moment is occupied by a gesture or sign of reverance. Rome needs to stop this by prescribing rubrics for "empty" spaces in the NO if they want to curtail it...It is happening everywhere and causes such a commotion in Church and disturbs those not willing to take part in newly invented customs.

sean said...

looking at the faces i am reminded of the dirty harry film where the hijacker on the school bus makes the children sing a happy song even though they are all scared/crying.