Rorate Caeli

Important: Fr. Pfluger speaks on recent developments

Image: Abp. Lefebvre assisted by Fr. Pfluger
Fr. Niklaus Pfluger, FSSPX, is the First Assistant of the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX). He was the main speaker at a conference promoted in Hattersheim, Hesse, Germany, this past Sunday, by the Actio Spes Unica association in which he talked about Rome, the Society, and the future. The following is a translation of the official summary of the conference (original, in German): Account of the most recent developments

Nothing new – that is how one could describe the first half hour of the conference given by Fr. Niklaus Pfluger at this year’s Spes-Unica-Sunday: the First Assistant of the Superior General of the SSPX recalled once more how the relationship with Rome has developed in recent years.

But then the conference hall in Hattersheim (Germany) got more and more excited as Fr. Pfluger unexpectedly started to unveil the events of the past years up until now. And he also announced that these events prompted Bishop Fellay to place aside the principle that guided negotiations with Rome.

The Pope’s desire of a solution

“No practical solution without doctrinal agreement” – such was the principle upon which the Society had started the talks with the Holy See. But the negotiations of the past years have revealed that the different positions regarding central questions of doctrine cannot be bridged.

Recent weeks have revealed that the Pope is so much interested in a canonical solution for the Society that he is ready to seal a deal, even if the Society does not recognize the disputed texts of Vatican II and the New Mass. Would the Society, however, refuse an agreement even under these circumstances, then new excommunications are a possible outcome.

The freedom to continue working in freedom

Under these circumstances the Superior General, Bishop Bernard Fellay, does not consider it possible to reject the Pope’s proposal. It would be tantamount to a lapse into Sedevacantism if one would still isolate oneself from the Pope’s wish, if this wish does not entail acknowledging false doctrine. It also is a matter of prudence/wisdom not to cut all connections with Rome. One should keep at least one door open, even if at this moment there seems to be no proximity in doctrinal matters.

It is, of course, a pre-condition that an agreement will cover the assurance that the Society will be able to disagree from Rome’s positions in disputed matters and that it will have the freedom to continue her work in her entire apostolate. Part of an autonomous status would also be the right to criticize the Council and Modernism.

The offer to Archbishop Lefebvre and historical parallels

By way of support for Bishop Fellay’s decision Fr. Pfluger recalled the way of action of Archbishop Lefebvre in 1987 and 1988. At that time the Archbishop proposed a far-reaching proposal for an agreement with which he wanted to arrive at a pragmatic interim solution which would have benefited the whole Church. The arrangement that the Archbishop was willing to sign at that time demanded far more concessions from the Society than what Pope Benedict demands at the moment.

Moreover, one has to realize how much false doctrines have spread throughout the Church. Even if a theological conciliation between Rome and the Fraternity would have been achieved, it could not be expected that by a word of command from the Pope all false doctrines would suddenly disappear from the face of the earth. Fr. Pfluger points to parallels in the history of the church: after the condemnation of Arianism, this false doctrine was still spread widely for quite some time, in some regions even for many decades. And even fifty years after the Council of Trent, the Archishop of Milan asks Rome for advice, for almost all of his clergy have wives and children. What is he to do? – The response from Rome shows how the church reacts with wisdom and common sense in such situations: if he cannot replace the clergy, then he simply has to keep it.

The relentless reinforcing of Tradition

The acknowledgement of the Society would, after all, be an official confirmation of the importance of Tradition, something that would be very important and influential throughout the Church. And it would rectify the injustice of her stigmatization. Is there not a danger of hostile local bishops using the arrangement to fight and impede further working of the Fraternity? – Against this foreseeable argument the First Assistant holds the development of recent years: the movement in the direction of Tradition – and mainly the wish of young priests to say the Old Mass – has become unstoppable, despite intimidation and oppression. In fact, this movement is now so strong that the Fraternity will be able to resist such claims from modernist Bishops.

The audio file of this conference is available for download here. (Translator's note: this text is really not as comprehensive as the speech given by Father Pfluger itself and it lacks the tone of the address. If you understand German, please take two hours to get a good picture of what is going on between Rome and Menzingen.) 

 [Translation by "The Anonymous Translator®"]


  1. Bartholomew1:45 PM

    "Recent weeks have revealed that the Pope is so much interested in a canonical solution for the Society that he is ready to seal a deal, even if the Society does not recognize the disputed texts of Vatican II and the New Mass."

    If true, an amazing miracle of grace.

    Ave Maria, gratia plena.....

  2. Tradical2:08 PM

    Hope peaks through the clouds.

    Based on this, the other statements by District Superiours, and a conference our SSPX pastor gave us a couple of weeks ago, everything looks set for some sort of regularization of the SSPX.

    Further everything seems to be aligned with Bishop Fellay's statement at the ordinations:

    "If you take us as we are, we are ready."


  3. St. Pius V's little friend2:54 PM

    "Veni Sancte Spiritus". . ."and I heard the voice of many angels round about the Throne. . .saying with a loud voice: The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power, and divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and benediction. . .and power, for ever and ever" (Apoc. 5:11-13)

    May H.E. Bishop Fellay, with his assistants Fr. Pfluger, Fr. Nelly and the previous Superior General - Fr. Schmidtberger, join the Sovereign Pontiff prostrate before the Holy Trinity with the "four and twenty ancients" adoring "Him that liveth for ever and ever" offering the docile service of their unioned "Fiat voluntas Tua".

    Then, through the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Our Mother and St. Joseph, "Mirror of Patience", the words will ring more clearly to these ineffably privileged souls, that Christ, Our King: " hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth" A.M.D.G. and the salvation of the souls created by Eternal Charity.

  4. Moreover, one has to realize how much false doctrines have spread throughout the Church. Even if a theological conciliation between Rome and the Fraternity would have been achieved, it could not be expected that by a word of command from the Pope all false doctrines would suddenly disappear from the face of the earth.

    Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly.

    Too many in the Society have insisted that Rome's full return to tradition precede, rather than follow, a reconciliation. But as Fr. Pfluger notes, that's more than even Archbishop Lefebvre was insisting on in 1987-1988. And it's more than can be rightfully insisted upon now.

    A deal is coming. But who will accede to it?

  5. Marsaili3:01 PM

    Being able to criticize texts of the Council and the New Mass is one thing, but will the Holy Father allow the SSPX to criticize him also, such as what the SSPX did in reference to Assisi 3 and the beatification of Pope John Paul ll?

  6. CredoUtIntelligam3:38 PM

    Recent weeks have revealed that the Pope is so much interested in a canonical solution for the Society that he is ready to seal a deal, even if the Society does not recognize the disputed texts of Vatican II and the New Mass.

    Is this possible?

    "Come on in! You don't have to recognize Dignitatis Humanae and you can counsel your parishioners to avoid the New Mass using the "poison" metaphor."

  7. One Superior's sermon today during 1st Saturday Mass (and coincidentally feast of St. Pius V) mentioned about the fact that our current pope has to be given time to come back fully to Tradition, step by step, and we just have to continue to pray for him. It's a great hint, no?

  8. Francis3:53 PM

    Marsaili said..."Being able to criticize texts of the Council and the New Mass is one thing, but will the Holy Father allow the SSPX to criticize him also, such as what the SSPX did in reference to Assisi 3 and the beatification of Pope John Paul ll?"

    Why wouldn't he?
    Assisi III, like the first two (although the first two under JPII were much worse) were religious relativism, indifferentism and syncretism at its worse. I don't know what the "doctrinal preamble" says, or what was said during the negotiations between the Holy See and the FSSPX, but I can't believe Bishop Fellay would sign without telling His Holiness and his representatives that anymore of these false ecumenical encounters like the Assisi sacrileges (which are contrary to two-thousand years of Catholic dogma) will continue to be criticized as they should be.

  9. Skeptico4:19 PM

    So much premature elation. Will you people never learn?

  10. Is this possible? "Come on in! You don't have to recognize Dignitatis Humanae and you can counsel your parishioners to avoid the New Mass using the "poison" metaphor."

    I don't understand how that's possible.

  11. @ Skeptico, should we be "elated" no, "encouraged" yes.

    Michael Davies, +Lefebvre's champion, was a friend of Pope BXVI, and said then Ratzinger was a friend of Tradition.

    Who can deny this?

    @Athelstane a deal is coming. But who will accede to it? Hopefully all four, but nothing is assured.

  12. Marsaili4:58 PM

    Francis, you did not understand my post. I did not say anything about the SSPX criticizing Assisi 3, I specifically asked if the SSPX will be allowed to criticize the Holy Father in reference to Assisi 3 and the beatification of Pope John Paul ll. The SSPX sharply criticized the Holy Father in regards to both these issues. Criticizing Assisi in a prudent manner may indeed be alright, but heaping criticism on the Holy Father is another matter.

  13. It is quite possible if the criticism is done in a constructive way, respecting the person and office of the Pope.

    "The New Mass is poison" rhetoric will have to go. "Benedict-Ratzinger is a heretic" rhetoric will have to go.

    They can easily be replaced with constructive criticisms that do not stoop to such low levels.

    As I have mentioned before, I believe this is a moment of great grace. Tradition is about to receive full and formal recognition in the Church! Providence is affording us the opportunity to help restore the house from within.

    As Fr. Pfluger points out, it will take a long time; possibly decades. We all know this. But let us start to take back the ground that the Modernists have controlled for so long. We have to be on the inside to do that.

    If we don't get inside the walls of the City, and start slowly but surely pushing the Modernists out, they will never leave. And if we shirk our duties by remaining outside, and refusing to do our part, will have much to answer for.

    May Our Lord bless and guide our Holy Father, and Bishop Fellay. May Our Blessed Mother implore wisdom and prudence for us all. May St. Michael always assist us in the battles to come.

  14. Francis5:21 PM

    I understood your post. Again Why wouldn't he? If the Pope (whether Benedict XVI or the next Pope) does modernist nonsense like having an Assisi IV Pope Benedict XVI must know that he will be criticized for it by traditional Catholics inside the FSSPX and outside. Again, I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine Bishop Fellay not telling Pope Benedict XVI or His reps that any modernist novelty that he or His successors do contrary to the de-fide teachings of Holy Mother Church will be criticized. Just like we trads criticized JPII personally for kissing a koran and for the first two Assisi's etc.

  15. @Marsaili
    Fr. Pfluger mentions this in his speech. According to him the sharp criticism of the pope was a test to see whether it would be brought up in the talks with Rome, but nothing happened.

    IMO this pope (in sharp contrast to Pope Paul VI, who took everything personal) does not have a problem with people criticizing him, as long as he can understand their point of view.

  16. NIANTIC5:33 PM

    Interesting and encouraging talk. Listening to it, with the modest knowledge of German that I have, I get the clear impression that our Holy Father has read Bishop Fellay's latest Response. That he is said to be willing to accept it as being sufficient. But for reasons of protocol it also needs to pass the review of Curial officials. These are not, or may not be, alltogether favorable BUT Our Holy Father can and, pray God, will overrule them.

    So we just need to keep on praying for Our Pope for the courage he needs to stay the course and do what is right and just for the well being of God's Holy Church.

    We all will know his final decision very, very soon. I hope it will be cause for great rejoicing!

  17. Slightly Paranoid6:40 PM

    Call me crazy, but I hope the Holy Father has someone tasting his food for the next few weeks....

    PS Am I the only one who takes four tries to guess what the anti-spam words are a s type them correctly? Sheesh!

  18. Francis7:02 PM

    "Call me crazy, but I hope the Holy Father has someone tasting his food for the next few weeks...."

    Very true.
    The enemies of Catholic tradition inside and outside of the Catholic Church won't be happy if the FSSPX are "regularized". Let's pray that His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI doesn't have a "heart attack" like Pope John Paul I did.

  19. Neil Obstat7:08 PM


    One local parish has spent millions of dollars remodeling their church to conform to the "spirit of Vatican II." The tabernacle is exiled to the end of a hallway, the sacristy is now located next to the front door so the priest can greet people coming into church, and then process up the middle aisle. After Mass, he processes down the aisle again, to shake hands and say "goodbye" to everyone as they leave (right away after Mass, without making prayers of thanksgiving). Then the priest can disappear into the sacristy near at hand. His parking place is right outside the door.

    The communion rail, worth about $30,000 was torn out, the confessionals are gone, and the pews are arranged in a half circle around the "table" (no more altar, no more altar stone) as if they're getting ready for a NeoCatechumenal Way service.

    These enduring, physical defects are going to be with us for many decades to come, other things being equal. Will the re-emergence of Tradition have any effect on the minds of the Modernists who are so entirely invested in the unclean spirit of Vatican II?

    Any recognition at this time will be a great blessing, but it will also be a bittersweet pill to swallow, for we will be tested. We will have to be ready to explain the faith that is in us, and we will have to do it with great patience and charity.

    The harsh sounding rhetoric of "you're not Catholic!" etc., has got to stop.

    Let's step back and take a breather, and collect our intentions. Do we want to make converts or do we want to make war?

    We are going to be facing a foreign environment and an ignorant populace when we try to raise the bar on CTLM availability. We're going to need a lot of grace...

  20. Neil Obstat7:18 PM

    Slightly Paranoid said...

    Call me crazy, but I hope the Holy Father has someone tasting his food for the next few weeks....

    PS Am I the only one who takes four tries to guess what the anti-spam words are a s type them correctly? Sheesh!

    Today, our priest read from the Lives of the Saints about the saint of the day, Pope St. Pius V. It was his practice, during his 6 years as Roman Pontiff, to kiss the feet of Jesus on the crucifix as he entered his room in the evening to retire. One day, as he went to kiss them, the feet moved to the side. The saintly Pope was alarmed, but tried again, and the feet moved back to the other side. No matter how he tried, the feet of Jesus on the Cross would not allow him to kiss them. The Pope was saddened by this, and thought that he must have committed some terrible sin for this to happen. Only later, did he discover that someone had put poison on the feet of Our Lord's corpus, in an attempt to kill the Pope that day.

    As for the anti-spam words, click the circle arrow to the right of the text window, to get a new image. You can do this as many times as you like until you see something you can read!

    Peace be with you!!! :)

  21. ReasonandRevelation8:09 PM

    As long as the Society recognizes and confesses that the Church is One. Otherwise, don't say the Credo.

    If this arrangement regularizes perpetual dissent, worse will come of it. You can bet the liberals will use toleration and regularization of dissent as to Church teachings without hesitation.

  22. miguel8:32 PM

    There is a new DVD put out by the Angelus Press entitle "The History of the Society of St. Pius X" well worth the money. It's really good for people who are not that familiar with the Society.

  23. Ted Maysfield8:56 PM

    "It would be tantamount to a lapse into Sedevacantism if one would still isolate oneself from the Pope’s wish, if this wish does not entail acknowledging false doctrine.”


    Once again the leadership of the FSSPX is on track and recognizing Rome and filial duty to it. The liberals despise Benedict for his generous outreach to the FSSPX. This is a historic moment!

  24. happyhockeymom9:14 PM

    I went to FIrst Priday Mass and Reparation for the first time at the local SSPX chapel yesterday and had an appointment to speak with Father afterwards.

    WHen we were done, I was talkiong about the canonical situation and was told, "Pray your Rosary even more. Something will be happening this month." So at the parish priest level, they seem to know something is coming and are asking for our prayers.

    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!

  25. Mr. Perkins,

    As always, I agree! Without questioning its validity when celebrated according to the mind of the Church, we nevertheless know the Novus Ordo is flawed. Even the Holy Father has said as much.

    But the Society and others can continue to make this case without resorting to such extreme rhetoric.

    I was once a "conservative." I was convinced of the superiority of the Traditional Mass only when I took time to read and listen to the rational arguments in its favor. This happened because someone first calmly and patiently explained to me the differences of between the old and new, and why the old was better; not because someone called the New Mass names.

  26. St. Pius V's supplicant9:37 PM

    With his Heavenly illumined perspective, St. Pius V who gave us "Quo Primum" watches over the current Vicar of Christ and Bishop Fellay encouraging all souls with the echo of his reknown saintly words:

    "More works are achieved by two joined hands than by any means of warfare."

    "Veni Sancte Spiritus". . .let us pray that the Will of the Holy Trinity be humbly accomplished - triumphantly. Time is short but a perfect Providential allotment for all that must transpire.

  27. Uncle Claibourne,

    That will not be posted here, or in any other post. Please, do not insist.


  28. Understood, New Catholic. If I may, I'll simply repeat my earlier request that we all pray earnestly for grace, prudence, and wisdom, for ourselves, and especially the Holy Father, and the entire leadership of the SSPX.

    Zak, the Novus Ordo has caused many of us pain. But this is where prudence and wisdom have a part; we will catch far more flies with honey than vinegar.

  29. P.K.T.P.1:49 AM

    Uncle Clairborne

    This isn't about catching flies, although liberal prelates do remind me of certain insects. It is about saving the Church from a liturgy that is Protestant and even Freemasonic in tone, in spirit and in implication. I, for one, will never consent to hold my tongue when it comes to that pathetic Bugnini trainwreck. Yes, we have to tolerate it, but I'm damned if we must be sweet about it. I'll be sweet the day they abolish it, if I ever live to see that day (probably not). In the meantime, the best approach to it is to walk away from it and try to avoid hearing the bubblegum music played during it as one does so.


  30. Mr.Perkins,

    Again, I agree with the sentiment. But not the mode of expression.

    Now is the time to drop the polemics, and simply pray. On another website, a German-speaker has noted that Fr. Pfluger mentioned in his talk that our Holy Father is virtually alone in the Vatican, and faces overwhelming opposition, but that he will follow through if Bishop Fellay agrees.

    How can we waste time on these polemics, when Peter at this very moment is in greatest need of our support? Do we not see the bigger picture? Do we not see the drama that is being played out before our very eyes?

    The knives are drawn on all sides. The Enemy has his agents in every camp. Traditionalists have always said that in the end, the Holy Father would find in us his greatest source of strength. NOW is the time for us to prove it.

  31. Yeah. We've all been hurt. Hopefully no souls have been lost while we've all been being hurt.

    But when are we going to stop getting vinegar from the pope and more honey?

    By thunder! He's the one who wrote Spirit of the Liturgy after all! HE'S the one who recalled the Golden Calf in the same context with the 20th century liturgical reform!


    [okay fine -- don't post that one either; here's one:]

    Okay. More honey, less vinegar. But I know from personal experience that there is such a thing as too much intimacy with unbelievers.

    You can pour as much honey as you want, but you'll never get an American to give up his or her pet sin without a chastisement... or some other shock to their morbid, Puritan self-assurance...


  32. John L5:06 AM

    I note that there is some precedent for this idea in the statutes of the Institut du Bon Pasteur in Marseille, which explicitly acknowledge the right to a 'serious and constructive criticism of Vatican II' on the part of the institute. Msgr. Pozzo recently tried to effectively remove this right in a canonical visitation, and was told by the IBP nothing doing - a response that was given heartfelt approval by Ennemond on the FECIT forum (Ennemond, although he disclaims the role, seems to be an informal spokesman for the SSPX, who presents their point of view in a non-attributable way).

  33. Asperges Me6:04 AM

    Mr. Clairborne, to tell the truth is not the same thing as polemics. It is most important to speak the truth when the eternal destiny of souls is at stake. That includes most particularly telling the truth to the holy father and telling the truth with respect to the teaching and example of the holy father.

  34. Clarence8:08 AM

    A friend of mine was recently received with his bishop in one of the Ad Limina audiences with the Holy Father. Upon finding that my friend was a seminarian, the Holy Father drew him in closer and said to him, "Pray for me".

    In conveying this story to me, my friend asked me to do likewise.

    Redouble your prayers for the Holy Father. The wolves still circle him.

  35. My German is not fluent but what I have listened is:

    - the Holy Church consists of sinners and similar situations like a big Arian chrisis took place in the Church. It will last long time to overcome present crisis. Fr. Pfluger is talking about the history of the Church and showing that her strategy is to work step by step. Dreaming of the Pope who makes pilgrimage to Econe and says "mea culpa" and cancels the Council or something like that is irrealistic.

    - Decision of the Society is a case of wisdom and reality. In what way should the Society use its strenght and faith in the present period?

    - It is imposible to cancel the Novus Ordo in one day. 5 thousands of bishops and the whole situation, many faithful who don't understand, it will cause a big schism. Pope must take reasonable and patient decisions. This is the way in which the Church operate.

    - The reforms will take a lot of time and the Society is needed to help in that. Abp Lefebvre wanted an "experiment of Tradition". He didn't demand a big and immediate reform, because it is impossible.
    - the Pralature is a kind of international diocese and it will be constructed to let the Society as they are now- they have their own houses etc.
    - The decision is not about a convenience of the Society but about the goodness of the whole Church,
    - Fr. Pfluger has reminded the history of the Israel walk through the desert which lasted 40 years; the whole generation which has experienced the slavery must die; now we see that young generations of priests and bishops and faithfuls are closer to Tradition and they are for TLM; even the hostility of some old bishops against Tradition couldn't stop that movement to TLM and in right theological direction;
    - 2007- the Pope has seen that it is impossible to make a reform only with the Novus Ordo Mass and that the TLM must have freedom if he wants to make a reform and he really wants it; but dreaming about cancel Novus Ordo now is irrealistic; the whole reform will take a long time
    - the Church is hierarchical not democratical; the Society accepts this principle and if Pope gives freedom it is impossible to say "no";
    - we must remember about politics and diplomacy also;
    - the Society feels responded for the whole Church and knows that it is only a tool;
    - What about guarantee? Yes, always it is a risk, but now we now that if it will be we shouldn't worry; the Rome sees the cathastrophal situation in the Church;

    - there are bishops who want the help of SSPX; not every bishop is against the Society;
    - the position of the Society after the regularisation will be better than now;
    - the Society has its own bishops so is stronger than other institutes;
    - the Rosary Crusade must bring a good effect as before it has brought- motu proprio and lifting the excommunications;
    - It is a case of help the Church to go out from the crisis;
    - Thinking of building bastions and separete isn't really catholic; we must defend faith and be strong in the faith but also think about the whole Church to overcome the crisis. It made also st. Athanasius. Fr. Pfluger has told a lot about St. Athanastius fight.

    - We must think about other souls. about their salvation. About a better access to them;

    - the prayers are needed- for the Pope, for bishops, cardinals, for the whole Church and for the Society. Christ is the Lord of the Church and the Immaculata has told that She will triumph.

    As I has said my German is only basic and it is possible that I haven't understood everything or have something badly understood.

    Please pray, today receive the Holy Communion for a good canonical status. Please do that! Do that with the strong faith!! Nothing is impossible for God!


  36. anabel3:18 PM

    I wonder if there is room for both just as Our Lord has shown us from Holy Scripture?

    For the heretic religious ed teacher who teaches kids that missing mass is not a sin, that homosexuals have needs too, and who shows protestant films declaring that "Jesus did not come to start a religion!" Maybe for her she does not need nor does she warrent our charity. Perhaps for her even better than "you are not a Catholic" would be "Get back you SATAN," to quote Our Lord.

    But for the lukewarm Catholic (like me for most of my life) who knows NOTHING about what has been happening to the Church, who brings the family on Sunday, donates time and money and THINKS they are doing God's will - maybe for these charity of tone is called for and indeed necessary - trust me when I say most Catholics haven't a CLUE of what's happened since VII - nor do they care.

    By the way, with the gift of God's Grace, I am fully back into Tradition. My husband and sons are still recovering novus ordos - It is not easy to undo what has been done. But, I am finding that a combo of both charity and hard hitting words is working with them. And time....Please Dear God, grant them the time to get it right.


  37. Asperges Me,

    As is the case with Mr. Perkins, I agree. There is nothing more important than the Truth. But it is equally important to speak in terms that open the eyes and ears of others. I have seen many instances in Society chapels where those who are seeking the Truth are driven away by the well-intentioned but misplaced, importunate zeal of the "regulars." Souls are lost in this way, too.

    As Our Lord told us, let us be as innocent as doves, but as clever as serpents. And now, especially at this critical time, let us not seize defeat from the jaws of victory by means of a negativity that causes others to tune the Truth out before they've had the opportunity to understand it. This is the essence of wisdom and prudence.

  38. stunned 88er4:07 PM

    A simple question : Was this radical and profound change in direction - to leave aside doctrinal questions and to pursue a canonical solution - taken before, during or after the doctrinal discussions with Rome ? And why were SSPX members not informed, and in fact misled ? This is going to tear the SSPX apart... which is perhaps what Rome has planned.

  39. Prayer9:43 PM


    (1) The pope's health - if this is his dying gasp, what use is it? Who knows what the next pope will do?

    (2)But, if the SSPX is willing to come under the Pope because the Pope (or the Church) now states that any group can be in the Church no matter what they believe as long as they acknowledge the Pope as primate (or some other quid pro quo) then the SSPX will have to share "the one true Church" w/animists, homosexuals, pro-aborts etc. (whoever the Pope/CDF/Nero has a whim to let in) who can also call themselves Catholic while not adhering to all dogmas, just as SSPX does. At that point, what would it mean to be in communion w/Peter?

    (3) Post VCII Rome has been big on saying that anyone who keeps the morals of God (a righteous man) even if out of the Church will go to heaven. At this point, it seems safer to me to be out than part of a Church that leads me to tolerate and support w/my taxes and for the sake of "Catholic unity" (and more importantly government funds) gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, fornication, adultery etc. as almost all the mover and shaker U.S. & European Catholics(including all the bishops Benedict has appointed) do. The same bishops who did not recommend disobeying abortion and gay marriage laws which harm innocent children (indeed allowed Biden & Kennedy to make "sit-ins" at abortion clinics a felony) recommend Catholics disobey laws which will merely put Catholic institutions out of "business" (off the goverment dole). Catholics are called to to go to jail (or die) to defend "religious liberty" (Cafeteria Religion) but not necessarily to go to heaven (the bishops aren't saying Catholics have to assent to "the teaching" that contraception and abortion are offenses against God) - just defend the "Catholic" brand right or wrong (and advertise it on your back pack too).

    I do not see why SSPX would step in to this mess. The tail does not wag the dog. It will be interesting to see what SSPX/Fellay has assented to. Up until the past few years I had always accepted the RC was my means of salvation, but to me being a part of the current RC is now assenting to moral evil.

  40. @Prayer

    From what you said, I have the impression that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church, which was created by Jesus Christ's precious blood. If so, there is no hope for you, me and mankind.

  41. Hello. I notice no one mentions the other 3 bishops who are, after all, on an equal footing with Mons. Fellay. Surely we wish to hear a joint declaration on whichever decision is taken?!


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