Rorate Caeli

A Catholic George W. Bush?
President to announce conversion at the end of his term


Could the 43rd President of the United States, George W. Bush, be the next new Catholic convert? Ignazio Ingrao, religion journalist of Italian weekly Panorama, reports:

After Tony Blair, it could be the turn of George W. Bush. According to Washington rumors, the President, a Methodist Christian, would be in the process of converting to Catholicism, as the Anglican Blair. The prayer which the Pope and the Bush family prayed together in the Oval Office of the White House might be the sign of the already accomplished conversion, which the President of the United States could expect to make public at the end of his term. Also Jeb, George's younger brother, entered the Catholic faith years ago, thanks to his Mexican wife Columba.

35 comments:

  1. But will it be a real conversion to the true Catholic Faith? Tony Blair's conversion was a sham.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Conversions are ongoing - I am still working on mine.

    While Tony breathes, he hopes. We just never know.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous5:38 PM

    How sad for anyone to presume to know what is in the heart of one who seeks to know, love and serve our Lord. Last I knew, this was the purview of the Father; not the sanctimonious.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous5:39 PM

    Well, GWB calls the Pope Holy Father, and this is a catholic title. What will all of this mean for Catholicism? Only God knows. I pray that it will be for the good of the Gospel.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous6:06 PM

    My take: Neoconservatism needs Catholicism much more than Catholicism needs neoconservatism.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous6:14 PM

    Seeing is believing.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous6:41 PM

    As to Mr. Blair's conversion, I agree with the Anon who said you cannot know what is in someone else's head, so it is not proper to judge him on the sincerity of his conversion. I pray and trust it is very genuine and will result in his growth in perfection.

    I recall reading from Gary Potter one time that he converted for the wrong reasons, but after dipping his fingers into the holy water a number of times, it got through to him. So it may be for us all.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous7:40 PM

    I have thought of this possible conversion myself especially after seeing the President with the Holy Father. He would be a wonderful Catholic, I think and not of the cafeteria variety.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous8:07 PM

    No one is asserting that they can look into Blair's heart - however, there are objective problems with his becoming a Catholic. Of course his pre-reception stance on gay-marriage (which he was particularly proud of) and abortion are problematic, but one hoped that he had turned from these errors when he became a Catholic.
    Sadly we see a post-conversion Blair continuing to support the gay-rights (and anti-Catholic) movement in the UK.
    No Catholic can be other than saddened to see another Catholic so deluded.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous8:16 PM

    I agree with the previous few posts.

    Why would someone wait till he was out of office to convert? An unprecedented chance to witness is lost; it shows the wrong set of priorities.

    Blair's actions and lack of action is what causes one to call him a "sham."

    "Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

    Both Blair and Bush because of their stature and power must needs have conversions that are radically manifest as they repute the powers of darkness that they have shared in.

    Galvin

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous8:22 PM

    For all his faults --- and they are many --- still it must be said that it’s not accurate to call Sen. John McCain “pro-abort” and “pro-sodomite.” He’s had a pretty strong pro-life voting record, though he lapsed for a while on embryonic stem cells. Also, for all his faults --- and they are many --- I’m not aware that Pres. Bush is planning to wage any kind of war against Iran, let alone an unjust one. Well, he’ll probably continue to wage a war of words, but not much else. There is neither time nor money nor troops nor weaponry to get into a war with Iran this year, nor will there be during the next four years. It’s just crazy talk to say plans are now underway to start a war with Iran during this presidency.

    That out of the way, it would be most welcome if Pres. Bush converted, and people were bound to speculate about it, since he gave such the Holy Father such a warm welcome, and since his brother Jeb is already Catholic. But we’ll see.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I think the most telling comment from Bush that give some credance to this speculation are as follows:

    Someone asked him (paraphrasing from memory) - when you look into the Pope's eyes, what do you see?

    Bush's answer: "God"

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous10:35 PM

    I had a feeling well over a year ago that President Bush would become a Catholic. Let's just wait and see. Better yet – let us pray!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Good, bad, or sideways Catholic, I don't care. If this is true, I can't wait to tell my anti-Catholic, freewheeling Evangelical/Fundamentalist relatives who love President Bush to pieces! O, to see the look in their eyes when they learn that the guy of whom they have a portrait proudly displayed in their office is in the process of converting to Catholicism! Priceless!

    Sorry, but we all need to have our gloating moments.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous2:02 PM

    Anyone who proposes Jesus as his favorite philosopher is less than Christian, let alone Catholic. And Bush's comment this month that the Holy Father is important because "he speaks for millions" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the Petrine office. Certainly let us hope and pray for the President's conversion, but my impression is that he has a long way to go.

    Romulus

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous4:46 PM

    Romulus said: Anyone who proposes Jesus as his favorite philosopher is less than Christian, let alone Catholic.

    I doubt he believes Jesus is only a philosopher. I think it is possible to believe that Jesus is Lord and God, Wisdom itself, and yet also to think of Him as the perfect philosopher, greater than Solomon.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous5:53 PM

    I don't know how true is this rumour, but, if it is, it's a very good news. I think that we need to remember that we must grow in faith. Not everyone will offer his life for Our Lord on the first day. I remember that my conversion was a rather slow process and I'm far from reaching the final stage.

    Don't judge new/potential converts too harshly.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous10:00 PM

    A Bonesman and beloved son of the New World Order relinquishing his real "faith" for the "superstition" of religion, even in the One, True Church? I'll believe it once Hell is frozen over and Satan is bound and cast to his final reward!

    Like grandfather, like father, like son. Bush and his kin are dedicated occultists despite what our delusional separated brethren and even many Catholics believe.

    Even if we were to witness the miracle of a true conversion, the real movers and shakers on the world stage, those pulling Bush’s strings, would never allow one of their chosen few to wander from the flock.

    Xavier.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous10:24 PM

    Xavier said: Even if we were to witness the miracle of a true conversion, the real movers and shakers on the world stage, those pulling Bush’s strings, would never allow one of their chosen few to wander from the flock.

    I'm not sure what that means. So President Bush is in on the vast conspiracy that secretly rules the world and is responsible for all major world events . . . but even if he truly converts to Catholicism, the world's secret rulers won't let him leave the secret board of conspirators? Does that mean they'll have him killed? Or does that mean that his true conversion to Catholicism would be false, or ephemeral?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous11:02 PM

    Jordanes,

    Either of your assumptions are entirely plausible. Your choice of words in "truly converts" was the crux of the situation.

    I am convinced if his conversion was genuine (and a geniune miracle that would be!), someone in his position would meet with an unfortunate & untimely demise.

    Far more likely, we are witnessing a wolf donning sheep's clothing for what purposes we may only speculate at this time.

    I would be more apt to believe in the validity of his conversion if he was to publicly expose and denounce his association with several secret societies and his father's vaunted NWO, but he would most certainly be signing his own death warrant then.

    Xavier.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous11:45 PM

    I'm not Catholic so I am curious: Given the Catholic Church's stance on capital punishment, if GWB converted, would he have to specifically repent of the dozens of executions he presided over as Governor of Texas?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous12:03 AM

    Why not? After all the majority of US Catholics support Bush on torture.

    ReplyDelete
  23. "I'm not Catholic so I am curious: Given the Catholic Church's stance on capital punishment, if GWB converted, would he have to specifically repent of the dozens of executions he presided over as Governor of Texas? "

    It isn't as though there are public canonical penalties - that all gets taken care of in the confessional.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Are you really not Catholic?...

    Or are you a Catholic trying to make a silly point?

    In either case, the matter of capital punishment is a complex one (read this article, for instance).

    According to Catholic Tradition, there does not seem to be an instance in which Governor Bush may have sinned in not blocking the execution of punishment decreed not by him, but by rightful Courts of Law - unless he had access to clear and unsurmountable evidence, in a specific case, that the convicted criminal was undoubtedly innocent, but nonetheless refused to take the necessary measures to avoid the execution of the judicial sentence.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous12:49 AM

    Given the Catholic Church's stance on capital punishment, he would no more have to repent of having presided over executions than he would have to repent of anything else that isn't a sin. Only if he knowing executed an innocent man would he have something to repent of regarding capital punishment.

    ReplyDelete
  26. It hadn't occurred to me in the case of Blair, but that was before I had spent a couple semesters teaching the Confessions of St. Augustine: look at Book VIII and the story that Simplicianus tells Augustine about the conversion of Victorinus, a prominent pagan man of letters. Augustine talks about the great good that can come from a prominent conversion; says what an impressive thing it was when Victorinus converted, and publicly. Interestingly, though, in the case of Augustine's own conversion, he makes the decision to do it quietly and in such a way as to draw the least attention.

    In short, the issue of whether or not to make a public prominent conversion is surely a complex one. I think I sympathize with Bush for waiting, if he is waiting, because if he were to do it now, rather than giving courage or inspiration to many, it may be regarded as another political act of political man. Obviously, it would be taken in many ways by many people, but I suppose I'm saying that there are strong arguments also for waiting.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous3:23 AM

    A Bonesman and beloved son of the New World Order relinquishing his real "faith" for the "superstition" of religion, even in the One, True Church? I'll believe it once Hell is frozen over and Satan is bound and cast to his final reward!

    What a silly comment and not very Catholic.

    ReplyDelete
  28. It would not surprise me if he onverted.

    Conversion is a life long process, we need not forget that. We're all imperfect.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anonymous6:21 PM

    Anon said:
    "What a silly comment and not very Catholic."

    Why was my comment either silly or "not very Catholic"?

    Bush comes from a family that for generations has literally been bound and lashed to numerous occultic secret societies! These are the very bodies that put a C-student like Bush, his father and grandfather in power. The very fabric of his being is sewn whole-cloth from the philosophies and indeed, theologies learned in these societies - the very antithesis of our faith!

    Would my comments be silly if we could put the name "Freemasonry" on his affiliation? While he may or may not be a Mason, his faith is simply another tentacle of the same beast. Bush is a NWO occultist first, a politician second, and all else last! Any schmoozing Bush does with the Pope was done with some (political) aim in mind. It could be as simply as wooing conservative pro-life voters for other Neo-cons during an election year, who knows.

    So I am silly then because I judge a tree by the fruit it bears and the patterns & history it has shown? I firmly believe the Holy Ghost converts great sinners - occasionally even into great saints. My point was to illustrate the fact that Bush's conversion was far more likely a calculated move by the forces of darkness than it was Bush's cooperation with God's grace.

    Xavier.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous6:39 PM

    Anon said:
    "What a silly comment and not very Catholic."

    Why was my comment either silly or "not very Catholic"?

    Bush comes from a family that for generations has literally been bound and lashed to numerous occultic secret societies. These are the very bodies that put a C-student like Bush, his father and grandfather in power. The very fabric of his being is sewn wholecloth from the philosophies and indeed, theologies learned in these societies - the very antithesis of our faith!

    Would my comments be "silly" if we could put the name "Freemasonry" on his affiliation? While he may or may not be a Mason, his faith is simply another tentacle of the same beast. Bush is a NWO occultist first, a politician second, and all else last! Any schmoozing Bush does with the Pope was done with some ulterior(political) aim in mind. It could be as simply as wooing conservative pro-life voters for other Neo-cons during an election year, who knows.

    So I am silly then because I judge a tree by the fruit it bears and the patterns & history it has shown? I firmly believe the Holy Ghost converts great sinners - occasionally even into great saints. My point was to illustrate the fact that Bush's conversion was far more likely a calculated move by the forces of darkness than it was Bush's cooperation with God's grace. Skull and Bones is either getting a great laugh out of seeing their plans come to fruition, or is planning to limit its liabilities.

    Xavier.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous9:04 PM

    Oh no, not the Skull & Bones bugaboo! Here we go again...

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous9:58 AM

    Skull and Bones bugaboo? New World Order or not, the Catholic Church still maintains a prohibition against membership in secret societies, does it not? Wouldn't he have to repent of his membership before being accepted as a convert or in some bishop's eagerness to score a prominent conversion would this violation of canon law be allowed to occur uncorrected?

    ReplyDelete
  33. "Conversion", according to neomodernist & secular postmodernist paradigms sits in marked contrast to the pre-conciliar model. It is very noticeable how some converts today appear to import their protestantism with them also.

    However, as there are those among them who do actually find the narrow gate leading towards orthodoxy, it is clear that it is preferable to make the first step and then hope abounds that the seed will find richer soil. To remain on the brash ground only brings with it an ephemeral growth that fails to reach maturity.

    While Tony Blair & his wife are most evidently un-Catholic in their beliefs and bear witness to that in their public actions and discourses, if we make sacrifices and pray to The Lord Our God on their behalf, then we may expect greater things. In any case, when we know Our Blessed Saviour and disobey His Will, then there is certainly no excuse on the day of judgment. That holds true for us all.

    Political arguments against becoming Catholic have little if no validity. Supporting capital punishment is traditionally a Catholic position and so is supporting war when we believe it is truly just. These are not matters that militate against conversion. Otherwise, what would have become of St Joan of Arc and her ilk? And suppose God had refused St Augustine because of his dissolute youth? And St Peter on account of his thrice public betrayal? And St Didymus because it was too late? Many lapse and shamefully so at times. However, there is always an open door for true contrition in the House of The Lord.

    "He answered: I will show thee all good, and I will proclaim in the name of the Lord before thee: and I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please me." [2 Exodus 33:19]

    "For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy." [1 Romans 9:15]

    Deo Gratias!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anonymous10:57 PM

    Xavier,
    Your wild assumptions show why your comments are silly. Now he's converting for political gain - now, when he's LEAVING political office!
    Yours is an intellect reaching for desperate measures to cling to what your mind screams is false.
    Unfortunately, you are legion.
    Joe B
    (What is a url?)

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous1:20 AM

    Joe B.

    Accusations and insults you level, but I did not state that Bush was converting for his OWN political gain but clearly stated otherwise, even going so far as to put “political” in parentheses. I did state that it COULD be for the benefit of other neo-cons – McCain comes to mind. You refuted none of my points about Bush himself or his allegiance to secret societies. You almost sound like one of the many Catholic Bush apologists I work with. If his conversion WASN’T politically driven in some way, why then would he not convert NOW instead of waiting for his term to expire? I do believe that point was covered above, though.

    And just because Bush is leaving office, doesn’t mean his political career or ambitions are finished. Perhaps, like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, he’s eyeing a position within some world government body.

    And for one who insults my intellect, I know both what an “URL” is and how to use a search engine to find out if I didn’t already know. Hint – look up Uniform Resource Locator.

    The fact that you do not share my opinion or conclusion does not make my points any less valid. Facts are facts and you can not refute my points about Bush, his family, or his allegiances.

    Xavier.

    P.S. I am "legion"? I will assume you are talking about a number, not likening me to the man in Mark 5. Good of you, chap!

    ReplyDelete

Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.

_______
NOTES

(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!