Rorate Caeli

SSPX spokesman: Letter was sent on Thursday;
SSPX "has no intention to respond to the ultimatum"

The spokesman of the FSSPX / SSPX spoke to France-Presse (AFP) today:

"The Fraternity has no intention to respond to this ultimatum," Father Alain Lorans, spokesman of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, declared to the AFP by telephone from Ecône (Switzerland).

"We do not foresee any practical or canonical agreement before having considered the doctrinal questions which came about after Vatican II," [...].

"Bishop Bernard Fellay [Superior General of the Fraternity] is surprised with the existing gap between the procedure of the ultimatum and the content of this ultimatum, which remains very uncertain," Father Lorans added.

According to Father Lorans, the Superior General of the Fraternity, Bishop Fellay, wrote a letter to Vatican authorities on Thursday.
[Update - June 28, 0700 GMT] Lorans also spoke to Reuters:
"He [Fellay] rejects the procedure he is being subject to," Lorans said by telephone from the SSPX seminary in Econe, Switzerland. "If we want a canonical accord that doesn't collapse in a few weeks, we must deal with the fundamental questions of doctrine."

"In an ultimatum, which is an emergency procedure, these things should be explicit," Lorans said, adding that Fellay's letter to the Vatican on Thursday was confidential.

The letter was sent before the end of the month, as requested by the Vatican, but the spokesman added: "You can say he's not responding (to the ultimatum), despite answering it." The SSPX also had reservations about a requirement to fully accept the magisterium, or doctrinal authority of the Church.

Fellay "accepts to respect the pope and not take the place of the magisterium of the Church, except if there is something in the post-Council magisterium that is opposed to the magisterium of 2,000 years," Lorans said.
RORATE note: So there was a letter, but no response to the supposed "ultimatum" in it. Naturally, only the content of the text will reveal exactly where both parties stand at the moment.

...another RORATE note: One might be rather optimistic about the letter sent by Bishop Bernard Fellay: the last point of the "conditions" was fulfilled, since the letter was sent before the end of June; and it seems likely that the only condition which was more thoroughly discussed in the letter was the third one - i.e. "The commitment to avoid the claim to a Magisterium superior to the Holy Father and to not propose the Fraternity in contraposition to the Church". And Fellay's answer to this question, if appropriately reflected by Lorans' comments, does not seem to be incongruous with the "hermeneutics of continuity" favored by the Pope.


  1. Well, at least he replied before June 28. That's a good sign. How he responded to the 5 conditions, perhaps we'll find out in the near future.

    Keep praying.

  2. It is quite clear that the SSPX is guilty of the same error as are Novus Ordo bishops. They give their own internal unity more importance than the Truth.

    Apparently, from what my sources say, it is Bishops Williamson and Tissier de Mallerais who are so stiff-necked as to refuse reconciliation. However, many of the priests and faithful veer ever more in the same direction.

    They falsely claim that an agreement now would deprive them of their free will and "force" them to accept things against their conscience. Pure lunacy employed to drive the priests and faithful further towards actual schism.

    Bp. W. is already a formal schismatic, since in 1998, in a letter to benefactors, he formally refused submission to the then-reigning Supreme Pontiff. He is therefore an excommunicate and ought to be expelled from the SSPX, if they are indeed Catholic.

    The SSPX could contribute much, after regularisation, to the restoration of the True Catholic Faith. This they cannot do in their present circumstances, since they have departed ever more and more from the actual teachings of Archbishop Lefebvre, using that great prelate's name to justify their own, increasingly warped theology. Their refusal of communicatio in sacris even with other Traditionalists who are in communion with Rome is a clear sign of practical schism.

    The fact of the matter is that a reconciliation would provide the SSPX with a much larger pulpit from which to help restore the Church, and their theological points could not be as easily dismissed. But it seems that they are more interested in controlling their people than in saving souls.

  3. Anonymous5:24 PM

    What does this mean:

    "...existing gap between the procedure of the ultimatum and the content of this ultimatum..."


    G. K. Chocolino

  4. Anonymous5:29 PM

    It would be very helpful if the SSPX leadership would simply be forthright with the Catholic world, which they full well know has been focused on this intensely. What do they mean 'we have no intention to respond' yet they wrote a letter in response!? And what on earth does 'existing gap in procedure' mean? I ASSUME he means 'I cannot respond because I don't know what it means, which is surprising since you want an answer so fast', which could have been stated 3 weeks ago!! JBrown

  5. Anonymous5:30 PM

    It is becoming apparent that the SSPX is simply Protestant with extra smells and bells.

  6. Dear "Chocolino",

    He means the distance between the certainty of an "ultimatum" as such and the uncertainty of the not very clear contents of the document.

  7. "...existing gap between the procedure of the ultimatum and the content of this ultimatum..."

    It’s hard to say because his language is obscure, but my guess (only a guess) is that they appreciate the so-called “ultimatum” as a preliminary step before the excommunications can be lifted, but they object to some or all of the conditions in Cardinal Castrillon’s letter. Or maybe they don’t have a problem with the conditions per se, but don’t like it that any conditions were set at all before the Church would be open to continuing discussions about reconciliation and regularisation. Without seeing the content of Bishop Fellay’s response, we can only speculate, and speculation in the absence of facts is pretty pointless.

    As for the announcement that the SSPX won’t respond even though Bishop Fellay has responded, I suppose that could mean that Bishop Fellay had responded but the SSPX as a body will not publicly issue a response. The letter of Cardinal Castrillon wasn’t meant for publication, after all – somebody got a hold of it and leaked it to Tornielli for some reason – so it is fitting that Bishop Fellay would respond privately.

  8. Anonymous5:44 PM

    I find it frightening to see the anti-SSPX responses, such hysterics from simple laymen is uncalled for and not at all appropriate.

  9. He means the distance between the certainty of an "ultimatum" as such and the uncertainty of the not very clear contents of the document.

    Okay, that explanation seems to make sense . . .

  10. Ecclesia Dei has confirmed what many suspected. The self absorbtion indicative of the SSPX mentality cannot unite with Peter. Their leadership is or has become rooted in trickery and schemes. They choose to believe that Christ has deserted His Church, which gives them rights embedded in false pride.

  11. ...from simple laymen...

    So are you "Master Anonymous," "Mr Anonymous," "Fr Anonymous," or "Bishop Anonymous?"

  12. Anonymous6:11 PM

    Wow, talk about anti-SSPX plants...

    When a neighbor's house is on fire, it is NOT charitable to just sit by and talk "nicely" and "with charity," while the house burns up furiously. What is charitable is to break the windows of the house, and try to salvage what you can.

    That burning house is the Roman Catholic Church right now. Goofy, self-righteous, falsely-pious neocon bloggers LOVE to tsk, tsk the SSPX. Well, too bad. Somebody's got to try to salvage what kept that house standing for 2,000 year (Tradition) before it all burns up. Enter SSPX.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not being "nice." And you can go stuff it, too.

  13. Anonymous6:14 PM

    OK - That is very confusing and unclear. Has the SSPX adpoted their own form of VII speak. That release says something, yet says absolutely nothing. It would be nice if they held a press conference and gave it to us in straight terms.

  14. Anonymous6:18 PM

    Good! There is no need to respond as long as Rome is unwilling to address its abusive behaviour towards the faithful following Vatican II and redress the errors of doctrine that have attended that unfortunate council

  15. It is amazing how many SSPX'ers are not only anonymous, but also how they provide no substantial discussion.

    Apparently, they think it sufficient to call people names and try to shout them down or shame them into silence.

    For myself, I have great sympathy for the SSPX and have friends who attend their Masses. I attend myself on occasion. But the truth cannot be denied, and one must recognise that the SSPX folks are heading in an ever more untenable direction which is not that of Traditional Catholicism.

  16. That sound Mnsgr Fellay that you hear, is the ice breaking apart all around you and shortly it will break apart underneath you as well. This message which you and your schismatic followers have chosen to label an ultimatum, was very likely Rome's best and last offer to try and get you to return to the fold. Rome has begun the process of fixing many of the problems that have plagued the Latin Church for nigh on a half century. This was a summons to help. It was also a test to see if you are truly Catholic or if you are in fact a schismatic sect like the Old Catholics. Your non-response is an effective reply in the negative. You are dictating to the Pope of Rome. And I strongly suspect that this Pope is the wrong one to play that game with. Even if this Pope does not excommunicate all of your followers (which he should), what do you think will happen when the next Pope comes along? How long do you plan to remain all alone out there passing judgments on Rome in contravention to the dogmatic definitions of Vatican I?

    I used to be affiliated with your little sect many years ago (mea culpa mea culpa). Even before I saw the light and moved Eastward I suspected you were schismatics. While all of the people were saying over the last few days that you would accept this incredibly generous offer which requires little more than acknowledging what you profess to believe as a Roman Catholic and showing a little common respect to the Bishop of Rome, I have been cautioning people that while I hoped for the sake of the Roman Church you would accept, that my experience in the SSPX left me highly doubtful. No, I believed in my heart that you would accept nothing less that the Pope of Rome running up a white flag over the Vatican and traveling to Econe to kiss your ring and beg absolution for heresy.

    Here you have announced to the whole world that you are unable to give to the See of Rome a level of common courtesy and respect that is generally accorded even by the majority of Orthodox hierarchs despite the long estrangement between East & West.

    Whatever you are or once were Mnsgr Fellay, you have made one thing abundantly clear. You are no longer Roman Catholic. I say this as one who is also no longer Roman Catholic. But at least I am honest about it.


  17. Anonymous6:30 PM

    Obviously the SSPX is not trained in Vatican diplomacy. If the Vatican issues a statement publicly and the SSPX says no they will have mocked the Holy See in the public sphere, and you don't do that without consequences.

  18. Anonymous6:30 PM

    Oh right. Rome is "fixing" the Church's problems alright, like praising religious pluralism in the U.S., touching U.N. flags, (Masonic NWO abortion organization - uh, yeah), and never mentioning Jesus Christ throughout the U.S. visit, uh yeah, everything's getting fixed alright. I got ya now, bud.

  19. Wow! John-the-Eastern-Schismatic is audacious to the nth degree. He should stay out of the true Church's internal affairs. And New Catholic should ban him from this blog. He is not Catholic, he knowingly left the truth faith.

  20. Anonymous6:34 PM

    How long can some SSPXers keeop chanting about Masons, socialists, secularists, and the new world order? What does that have to do with signing a document that would make them far more influential in the Church and help to clear away the religious pluralism so loved by our present Pontiff.

  21. Anonymous6:37 PM

    Hey Ione,

    Got one word for ya.


    One World Religion.

    Please wake up.

  22. Charity, everyone! Charity!

    Everybody take a deep breath now and call on the Holy Spirit to give us serenity, wisdom, and humility.

  23. What to make of this announcement? Only the principals in the dispute know but one thing is for certain - negotiations in the press are doomed to failure.

    At least we can take some comfort in the fact that an outright rejection was apparently not forwarded to Rome.

    Perhaps it was a request for clarification as to why conditions were being imposed on what had been free talks in private. Perhaps it was an appeal that doctrinal discussions can only take place once the excommunications were lifted.

    I don't know and it may be that after the disastrous leaks in the press this past week we may never know. But I do know that mutual trust seems to be a missing part of the equation and that is a very sad thing for the church in these times.

  24. Anonymous6:44 PM

    Well that seems about it for the SSPX.

    I am afraid now that the SSPX will take its place along side High Church Anglicans in endless justification of itself, and I am afraid suffer the same sort of miserable fate.

  25. Anonymous6:45 PM

    "We do not foresee any practical or canonical agreement before having considered the doctrinal questions which came about after Vatican II,"

    Don't tell me you wouldn't love to see some discussion, and maybe even some clarification, on some of the more confusing declarations of Vatican II.

  26. To all the "anonymous" SSPX supporters out there; it is quite obvious that you prefer to follow Bishop Williamson down a road of perdition than Peter. Your tone is identical.

    To you who said that the Pope never mentioned Our LORD and Saviour during his visit because you can't get beyond the mantra of freemasonry let me ask you; Did you watch the broadcasts? Have you read his speeches?

    In Washington, to an interfaith gathering he said, "We propose Jesus Christ!"

    To our Jewish brothers and sisters in the Synagogue on the eve of their Passover he said, "I can imagine a young Jesus in a place such as this."

    If this report is true how sad this day really is. But God always answers prayer and this time is no different. Those of us who have prayed for the SSPX to accept have had prayers answered...but it may not be the asnwer we had hoped for.

    Perhaps then God knows more than us. Perhaps there is something diabolical which has gotten hold of these four men.

    Those of you in Toronto, you can attend the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite on Sunday at 9:30 at the Toronto Oratory Church of St. Vincent de Paul (Missa Cantata) or at St. Patrick's in Schomberg at 9:00 AM or at St. Theresa Shrine at 1:00 PM (Low Mass).

  27. Anonymous6:53 PM

    Anonymous said...

    Oh right. Rome is "fixing" the Church's problems alright, like praising religious pluralism in the U.S., touching U.N. flags, (Masonic NWO abortion organization - uh, yeah), and never mentioning Jesus Christ throughout the U.S. visit, uh yeah, everything's getting fixed alright. I got ya now, bud.

    So there are all these Masonic Boogie Men waiting to eat your children. Tell me who do you pay your taxes to and what exactly are you funding with your tax. ?? Boogie Men that's what they are funding with your taxes. I'll bet the SSPX pays taxes of some sort in every country that they operate in, and the Laity at every SSPX Church pay their taxes as well, funding Lord only knows how many Boogie Men and worse..!!. But we cant give an 81 year old a polite reply..???. Just because you attend the Traditional Mass doesn't mean that your not a loony...a lot of Traditional types should remember that.

  28. Guadalupe Guard (the Western Schismatic) suggests I should be banned from this blog for leaving the true faith. Out of respect for the blog owner I will refrain from addressing the True Faith issue as this is not an appropriate thread for an East -West debate. However I will take a moment to make a few quick observations. First the Western Schismatic did not refute anything which I wrote. His response was (rather tellingly) limited to an attempt to silence me. Secondly as a blog owner in my own right, I have generally found it to be rather bad form to tell someone else how to run their blog. If NC wants to me to desist in commenting he has only to ask and I will instantly comply. Thirdly as former SSPXer (again mea culpa mea culpa) I suspect that I am as qualified as most of the people here to express an opinion on this sad controversy. And I will repeat for the record my long held view. The SSPX is Rome’s equivalent to our Old Calendarists. They are locked in their own little world convinced that they are the last guardians of the True Faith in an apostate world. They are by any reasonable definition a schismatic cult.

    John (The Eastern Schismatic)

  29. Anonymous7:03 PM

    The Hegelian Dialectic is in full play.

    "Ordinary" + "Extraordinary" = "Hybrid New Mass" = "V2 do-over"

    Think about it.

    Watch them keep changing the "Extraordinary Rite."

  30. Anonymous7:08 PM

    Anon: Assisi was twenty-two years ago, how long are SSPXers going to act like its still 1968! They are as bad as the Call to Action crowd sometimes.

  31. Anonymous7:09 PM

    How many devotees of the "Extraordinary Rite" realize it would never have come about but for the faith, charity, and perseverance of the SSPX?

    Are you people dreaming or what?

    "The most important lesson in history is that men do not remember the important lessons of history."

    Memories are short. Darn short.

  32. Anonymous7:10 PM


    22 years is a blink of an eye in the history of the Church.

  33. Anonymous7:11 PM

    Anon: The world no longer operates in terms of centuries, and like it or not neither does the Church.

  34. Anonymous7:15 PM

    While the SSPX is busy battling "Modernism" the world has moved onto "Postmodernism."

    Assisi was a dreadful and embarrasing situation, but harldy the standard bearer of the worst moment of crisis in Church History. It's not 1986, or 1968, or for that matter 1954. Tradition does not mean "no-change," it means "referential change."

  35. Anonymous7:15 PM

    You can tell we're Christians by the way we hate, hate.
    You can tell we're Christians by the way we hate, hate.

    Let's burn our neighbour for he'll surely burn in Hell
    For we are Christians for the way we hate.

  36. Anonymous7:26 PM

    It is probably necessary to know what the letter said before evaluating what happened here. I suppose it will be leaked onto the interest in a few short hours, just as everything else is in these modern times. Too bad it rarely results in anything good.

  37. Dan Hunter--my glimmer of hope--any more glimmers or do you think your bishop-friend was sadly mistaken? By the way, your uncle Fr. Hunter is a good priest.

  38. Anonymous7:36 PM

    Anon wrote,

    "How many devotees of the "Extraordinary Rite" realize it would never have come about but for the faith, charity, and perseverance of the SSPX?"

    So this makes the SSPX beyond reproach? I admire much of what the SSPX has done but this argument has become quite tiresome.

  39. Anonymous7:39 PM

    This isn't the place for it, so I'll make this brief:

    Hey, ad orientem, have you read Adrian Fortescue's The Early Papacy? I've never read a more robust defense of the papal claims. Since this ain't the place for the discussion, would you email me?


    I'd actually love to read good Orthodox apologetic material. I'm very interested in the arguments. Okay, 'nuff said.

  40. Anonymous7:41 PM

    Is the adjective pronounced "excommunicATE", with a long "ay", or "excommunicETTE," with a short "eh"?

  41. Anonymous7:49 PM

    "It is becoming apparent that the SSPX is simply Protestant with extra smells and bells."

    A contributor named Joe stated this.

    It's humerous, because "Protestant with smells and bells", was an old cliche that anti-Catholic Protestants, and anti-High Church Episcopalians used to say about High Church/Anglo-Catholic Episcopalians.

    It's also not so humerous, because the SSPX is 100% Catholic...despite their stand. They shouldn't be labeled Protestants.

    That's like throwing a diamond (the SSPX), into a pile of dirt.

  42. Anonymous7:53 PM

    One has to laugh at all the propagandists.

    Fr."Z" is over on his blog busy spinning Bishop Williamson's letter like a top.

    It's the sign of a small souled person to do what he does. An absolute master manipulator.

    He describes Bishop W as "excommunicated" at every turn but doesn't do the same to Bishop
    Fellay. Do you think his job is to divide trads?

    He's absolutely afraid to call up Bishop Wiliamson and interview him.

    The same groups of people are jumping from blog to blog pasting the same doomsday stories about the SSPX.

    "Oh they could do so much good within the Church!" But when the answer is "no" they are the Devil personified. Lotta love there, I have to say. You can almost see the claw held out saying, "Give me what I want."

    You know who could do more good in the Church? THE POPE!

    Why isn't he?

    An open statment to the Holy Father: "Crush the liberals and the SSPX will be no problem. They will kiss your instep."

    Until the Holy Father decides whether he wants to be the leader of heretics or the Pope of the Catholic Church, nothing is going to be settled.

    It's the Pope and no one else who will settle this. Excepting of course if God decides to deal with it directly or through Our Lady or the badly abused and neglected since Vatican II St. Michael.

    Otherwise 20 years from now, we may have a Pope who is a pious priest or young bishop now, watching these injustices and the wicked games of heretics like Cardinal Castrillon. He won't have his ego all tied up in Vatican II and he'll be much more agreeable to Fellay.

  43. Anonymous8:01 PM


    Gorgeous post.

  44. Anonymous8:10 PM

    New Catholic,
    I suggest you close the comment box. Some of the critics of the SSPX are bordering hysteria.

  45. Anonymous8:11 PM


    Don't worry about 'Fr or. Z' - his mouth is ten times larger than his brain and his orders doubtful at best.

  46. Anonymous8:25 PM

    How many devotees of the "Extraordinary Rite" realize it would never have come about but for the faith, charity, and perseverance of the SSPX?

    If the SSPX spent a little less time ranting about Tradition and a little more time studying it, they might discover that ends do not justify means. To say that we have the EF because of SSPX rebellion, ergo the rebellion was justified is like saying that we have a Redeemer because of the Fall, ergo...

  47. Anonymous8:26 PM

    "wicked games of heretics like Cardinal Castrillon." Very nice comment, VERY SSPX -- please go back to Angelqueen where this type of HYPE is appreciated

  48. Anonymous8:31 PM

    In all charity, we should be praying for an agreement to some terms, and not rejoicing over the SSPX's response.

    Why not beg Rome to proceed more tactfully and withdraw the ultimatum/preconditions for reconciliation.

    After all it is not Rome which is the aggrieved party; its the SSPX who were railroaded in the 70's by Paul VI, as Pete Vere proved in his Canonical thesis...

  49. Anonymous8:32 PM

    Hey RWC,

    Yeah, 2 MILLION rosaries for the Holy Father...that's a such a terrible rant.

    Spew your bile elsewhere, while the SSPX keeps sending rosaries to the Chair of St. Peter.

  50. This comment has been removed by the author.

  51. What Hateful Comments!!!!!

    I feel certain that they are so pleasing to Our Lord! No doubt he is smiling and nodding his head right now at the vitriol on display here!!!!

  52. Anonymous8:37 PM

    Bear in mind that the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei has the tape recording of the conversation on June 4th between Cardinal Castrillon and Bishop Fellay in which the latter gave his verbal assurances that the four conditions were not a problem.

  53. Anonymous8:40 PM


  54. Anonymous8:41 PM


    Yeah, 2 MILLION rosaries for the Holy Father...that's a such a terrible rant. Spew your bile elsewhere, while the SSPX keeps sending rosaries to the Chair of St. Peter.

    I wasn't referring to the rosaries. I was referring to the attempts to paint Tradition as little more than a becherubed elaboration of French reactionary political theory, and Our Sweet Christ on Earth as a deranged Modernist.

    As for those rosaries: the SSPX can pray as many rosaries as it wants, but its bishops should bear in mind the message - confirmed in Tradition - which Scripture provides us in places such as St John 9:31 and Proverbs 15:29. So long as hearts remain hard and sins go unrepented, I can see little cause for self-congratulation.

  55. Anonymous8:45 PM

    Look at what all of this has done! Reread all of those comments.These comments are coming from Catholics? Some of them are being written in a Christian way while others are just plain UnChristian. Look and see what Satan has done...his plan has worked...Why are we still not praying on our rosary beads asking Our Blessed Mother and Our Lord to help us show charity and understanding.
    I might not agree with the decision that was made, but I still love and show compassion and most of all pray. Please let's put an end to all of the negative comments, it isn't Christian like and this too offends God.

  56. OK... Let us calm down a little bit.

    Penance! Penance! Penance!

  57. "claim to a Magisterium superior to the Holy Father"

    This is susceptible of two meanings. The difference is whether it means that the SSPX claims to BE a superior Magisterium (which it doesn't), or that the SSPX claims there IS a superior Magisterium (which it does-- the perennial teaching of the Church).

  58. Anonymous12:03 PM

    BIG SIGH !
    Civil War usually follows liberation - this is to be expected.

  59. Bishop Fellay has granted an interview to the Swiss Italian Radio (in italian obviously). Anyone interested can find it by clicking on the ‘sabato 28 giugno 2008, ore 12:30’ edition of the news on this page

    It starts after about 16 minutes an 30 seconds of the file :

  60. Grazie tanto, Syriacus!

  61. Prego, NewCatholic, but...non nobis!

    I forwarded someone else's tip, precisely by Caecilia (28 June 2008 @ 6:23 am) on Fr Z's WDTPRS blog.
    (I just looked for the RealMedia file, and enhanced the original tip with a link to it.)

    So, many thanks to Caecilia! :)

  62. Has anyone noticed that with all of the words on this page, no one is any closer to Heaven.

    In fact with the tempers and uncharitable words, the great majority are probably much further from Heaven than before they wrote.

    More than a few people have "expressed their opinion", but most have not asked whether their opinion actually matters. In most cases it does not.

    "God dwells in silence", said St. Peter Martyr ... perhaps we should meditate on that a bit more before we post here.

  63. To: those poor souls who up to now are ignorant of what the true fight is all about... here is it in a gist: SSPX does NOT crave for any recognition or prestige or any form or material reward be it in any form or shape of "prelature" or BRIBERY!!! The main reason they were established was for the "PRESERVATION IN PERPETUITY of DOCTRINAL PURITY - a surrogate custodian so to speak till the ROMAN MODERNISTS aka as ROMAN ROGUES have (by God's grace) fully recovered their MORALLY CORRECT right use of their reason!!! COMPRENDE?????????

    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre did NOT offer himself or volunteer for this mission... he was forced (so to speak) and thrown into the ROMAN COLLOSEUM -- now if you ask why? -- my reply is - you need to ask God that question yourself when you meet him face to face on judgment day...

    What is so hard to understand about what this "VILLAINOUSLY DEFIANT SCHISMATIC EX-COMMUNICATE TEENAGE PAPIST" had just posted above???

    And if you have "issues" with what I have posted? TOUGH! THEY are your personal issues alone!!! Take it up with the Triune God on your personal judgment and or on general judgment!!! END of Discussion!!!

    Ain't gonna reply to any more whinny protestations!!!

    But this uncalled for provocation and "threat/ insult" on the part of the Roman Rogues sure makes for interesting and "intriguing" fodder for all of us who loves to argue, voice out our opinion, release our frustration and be heard!!!

    God Bless... and giving you all a virtual " friendly fist bump"... take care and have a great and safe summer...

  64. Anonymous5:29 PM

    I wrote on another blog that abotu the ultimatum and response that what Fr. Lorans contended was that Bishop Fellay would not respond to the ultimatum but that, since the ultimatum was not contained in the five points, his 'response' was not a contradiction: he responded to the five points but not to the ultimatum.

    Clearly, he did not sign the five points but he did write a response to the Cardinal. It may be that this will be sufficent to have the declarations of excommunication lifted. We don't know, since we don't know the content of the letter.

    I think that the Pope would like to act on or before 2nd July, the twentieth anniversary of the 1988 declarations. So we might know soon how Rome will respond. This is not a time for complaints about the S.S.P.X but a time for prayer.

    I am hoping that the Pope will lift the declarations of penalties and, in addition, authoritatively declare that the Society Masses fulfil the obligation. The Holy See might choose to provide jurisdiction for Society Masses and confessions, so that they do not have to rely on a claim of supplied jurisdiction. We shall see.

    Pray, people. We may not achieve regularisation at this point but something just as important.

    Peter Karl T. Perkins
    Victoria, B.C., Canada

  65. As always, your analysis seems quite right, Mr Perkins. Thank you!

  66. Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium. Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur: tuque, Princeps militiae caelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute, in infernum detrude.