Rorate Caeli

A Vatican II Moment:
The "Cups Mass"

The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved.

For this purpose the rites are to be simplified, due care being taken to preserve their substance; elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated, or were added with but little advantage, are now to be discarded; other elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary.
Sacrosanctum Concilium, 50

Ordinary Mass celebrated by Father Miguel Ángel Sastre, a diocesan priest who celebrates at the Madrid novitiate of the Lasallian Brothers (Archdiocese of Madrid, Spain). "Every Tuesday, since the beginning of the novitiate, we celebrate the eucharist as a community in our house. It is a very special celebration, because it is the moment in which we may live the eucharist with greater depth and meaning."
(Source and tip: La Cigüeña)


  1. Can the faithful licitly fulfill their Sunday and holy day obligation at this Mass and may they recieve absolution from this priest?

  2. Sacrosantum Concilium does not say any particular priest can invent whatsoever "Mass" he wills.

  3. "Deeper meaning and significance" - without any objective evidence to support this now hackneyed phrase liberals use it as a euphemism for doing what they like whenever they wish.

    Without ant astonishment whatever, The vatican does nothing to stop this ever-increasing abusive NO style liturgy. Its proponents remain in "good standing" and "full communion" - these have lost their significance and meaning.

  4. Anonymous5:14 PM

    The image of the rite of Mass is in total comformity to the wording contained in Sacrosanctum Concilium. The rite does appear rather simple while maintaining the elements (I suppose this refers to bread & wine); other features of the previous rite appear to have been discarded.
    And there is a kind of primitiveness which SC had called for.
    So, Fr. Miquel Angel Sastre cannot be held at fault for fabricating his rite of mass.

  5. ogard5:30 PM

    I think it is not only illegal but also invalid, because of the lack of intention of doing what the Church does.

  6. Anonymous6:17 PM


    "Without any astonishment whatever, the vatican does nothing to stop the ever-increasing abusive NO style liturgy."

    How do you know that it is ever-increasing?

  7. Dear Anonymous said

    We know because there is plenty of photographic and written evidence around to suggest this. In fact, it is also a fact that many of the post-conciliar presbyters now in service enact the NO with the intention that it is a memorial meal and do not believe in transubstantiation. I have been to the "masses" in the past of many presbyters, some personal friends who believed otherwise & they were taught this perspective in the seminaries where they trained. Therefore, their "masses" are invalid by lack of intention. Add to this the multiplier-effect of such peope in charge of the liturgy and it is self-evident that abuses will increase significantly. Glass and porcelain ware is used in any NO venues these days. Many parshes in Asia regularly have liturgical dancing and various other forbidden add-ons. In France, liturgical abuse is routine in most parishes and presbyters often invent their own responses. I havenever attended one orthodox NO liturgy in France. This pattern is repeated throughout the church worldwide. This is one of the reasons why Fr Paul Marx OSB (RIP) exclaimed the church (under JPII) was in "total chaos". It starts with the liturgy. It is the predictable consequence of inculturation of which the previous pontiff was an ardent supporter and propagator.

  8. "How do you know that it is ever-increasing?"


    If I may voice my two cents:
    I know, because I personally have seen at least 10 Catholic churches that showed a modicum of respect for the Mass and Liturgy 15-20 years ago, and now they have discarded any semblance of respect for the liturgy and made the churces into visually more something akin to lounges than Catholic churches.

  9. Anonymous7:39 PM

    "How do you know that it is ever-increasing?"

    To add a comment: come to latin america where priests as equally as bishops make up their own "masses". There are several dioceses in my own country where the bishop and some clergy have stopped using a missal. Not to mention at least some ornaments. In one Province, I remember, a couple of years ago a priest made a scandal (a friend of mine told me) because he as a newly ordained priest wanted to wear a chasuble for mass. That parish DOES NOT remember a chasuble, actually didn't have any, people "serve" themselves the Eucharist from the table, and the priest improvises the prayers (and people "share" the words of consecration).
    Yes, it is real. It is happening in South America, and mainly among priests from religious orders.

  10. Anonymous8:01 PM

    LeonG said:

    "We know because there is plenty of photographic and written evidence to suggest this."

    So, there is evidence which suggests, based on the subjective opinions of Catholics, who are fallible and open to error. Also, if a Catholic spends much of his or her time looking for evidence that abuses are increasing, they will no doubt find it, because that's what their objective is.

    It's just another way of saying that you and others know better than the Pope about the state of the Church. The Pope has not said that the Church is in chaos. But traditional Catholics know better, becaue they spend most of their time on all things negative, regarding the Church. Therefore, you don't need a pope anyway, because you are better than he is about knowing the reality of the Church and the faith. Correct?

  11. Emilio8:37 PM

    Looking at this photograph just chilled my blood, that looks like a pretty chic designer sweater that Father is wearing...pobre diablo! what a wretch of a man!.. to mock God at the altar as he does (and I say that with great pain).. pray sincerely for his conversion of heart and remember Fátima.

  12. Tacitus8:53 PM

    Anon at 20:01:

    The "state of the Church" is an empirical matter of fact to a large extent. Do we need a Pope's declaration to evaluate, for instance, the percentage of Catholics, according to empirical studies, who believe in the Real Presence, attend Mass weekly, believe homosexual acts are a sin? The answers to these questions, based on empirical studies of American Catholics, suggest that "the state of the Church" is very bad indeed.

    If there is a Church teaching stating that we are incapable of making inferences from empirical facts about "the state of the Church" without Papal approval, then please cite it.

  13. Vobiscumator9:04 PM

    I used to think SC was one of the relatively better Second Vatican documents. But after reading Chris Ferrara's devastating analysis of it, one realizes it's about as bad as anything else in that council of our afflication.

    Anon 20:01 - So you don't think the Church is in chaos because the pope does not say so? Is there any particular reason why?

    Here's a whooper for you. In June 1975, Pope Paul VI declared in a speech that "the fruits of the liturgical reform today appear in their splendor". 1975. We're supposed to believe this crock that in 1975 the Church was enjoying some of the greatest, if not the greatest, solemnity, spirituality, and reverence ever witnessed in nearly 2,000 years of Latin rite worship. After all, the pope said it, he must be right, is that what we're supposed to believe. I don't even think Pope Benedict XVI believes Pope Paul VI's nonsensical statement.

  14. I hate to see what their Chalices look like! (I'm thinking baby's sippy-cup!)

    Well, at least they're recyclible!

    Sacrosantum Concilium has a beautiful poetic power, doesn't it? NOT!

    What pure, unadulterated arrogance; this first council document couldn't wait to get off the liberals' press, as they had been pressing for it, yearning for it, even praying for it, for so many decades before (think the St. Severin movement in Paris, where liturgical experiments had been germinating for so many years.) Well, they got what they wanted! Puppets! Clowns! Electric guitars! Liturgical dance! Back-clapping! Hand-holding! It's all so beautiful I have to stymie my welling crocodile tears.

  15. Anonymous9:38 PM

    Perhaps it would be more beneficial to our cause if this blog focused more on the beauty and grace of the traditional liturgy than continuing to post scandalous images of the Novus Ordo. Most people who come here are already aware of the catastrophe of the liturgical 'renewal'.

  16. "It's just another way of saying that you and others know better than the Pope about the state of the Church. The Pope has not said that the Church is in chaos. But traditional Catholics know better, becaue they spend most of their time on all things negative, regarding the Church. Therefore, you don't need a pope anyway, because you are better than he is about knowing the reality of the Church and the faith. Correct?"

    In other words: "I like this pope, so you traddies ought to stick your heads in the sand, and shut up because you are making me uncomfortable."

    Please note that Anon doesn't actually present any objective evidence that the Church isn't in crisis.

  17. Really? "Continuing"?... It had been a while since we posted any of this; it causes us no pleasure to do so.


  18. "Perhaps it would be more beneficial to our cause if this blog focused more on the beauty and grace of the traditional liturgy than continuing to post scandalous images of the Novus Ordo."

    The beauty of the TLM shines brighter when contrasted with the darkness that surrounds the Ordinary form. It is impossible to explain the advantages of Traditional Catholicism without broaching the short comings of the culture that surrounds the novus ordo. Traditionalism isn't just one choice among many. It is the only authentic expression of our Catholic faith.

  19. Everyone: Read St. Paul's great hymn to Charity; exhale.

    Then, prayer. Sacrifice.

    As a NO attendee, I can say there is a lot of room for improvement, but things are better than the 70s.

    At least here in DC.

  20. Anonymous10:03 PM

    I know all about the Lasallian Brothers, also known as the Brothers of the Christian Schools, founded by St. John Baptist de la Salle in the 17th century.
    There were, before Vatican II, over 20,000 Christian Brothers, some 7,000 in the USA alone, with close to 2,000 novices in 6 diffrent regional novitiates dotted across the country.

    Since Vatican II, they have become the most bizzare and liturgically abusive commuity of Brothers in the Church, and have collapsed from 20,000+ before Vatican II, to less than 5,000 aged Brothers today...of which about 600 remain in the USA with 3 aspirants.

    How many novices are at this novitiate? i would reason a guess that considering this disgusting sharade of a "Mass", that there are less than half a dozen for the whole of Spain.

  21. I think we can safely slough-off this report as but an isolated photo of, as it were, a pile of mud, ice, and snow that has accumulated in the shadows next to a Dumpster behind the JC Penney Store at some sad New England Mall.

    We all know this has been a fantastic, bright, and beautiful Springtime in The Church and there is no need for malign-intended traditional muckrakers to snoop around in the shadows and cause scandal by taking and posting these photos.

    Speaking just for myself, I remember it was barely 38 years ago that I heard The Roman Canon at the brand spanking shiny new mass and if that wasn't the spiritual equivalent of a lone swallow crashing head-first into the outside wall of Serra's Chapel at Capistrano then I don't know my springs.

    At their website, there is a photo of lovely young women dressed as albino swallows fluttering around in the courtyard

    While it is true I have not heard the Roman Canon since I heard it 38 years ago, it was but an early sign of the arrival of Springtime and I know it will be only a month or so before we hear it in every Catholic Church in the world every Sunday .

    In the meantime, we will just have to put-up with the fact that, right now, inside of the NO Church, it sounds as though one is on the set of a remaking of, “The Birds," and count our blessings that this is Springtime. Imagine if it were late Fall....

  22. New Catholic: I appear to be the only reader that fails to see the photo as self-explanatory. Are we to assume that the gentleman described as a priest is in process of saying Mass? If that is so, what then are we to make of the multiple small cups?

    Furthermore, my screen's resolution isn't high enough to allow me to discern what the cups hold. Hosts? flower petals? marshmallows? I am not being facetious in saying that from what I see, the contents could be any of these. And are these contents to be consecrated during the Canon? We know this to be so on what authority?

    I am not suggesting, as some others have, that there is nothing here to comment upon adversely, that whatever is taking place here is no big deal. Quite the contrary, I suspect. Still, I should be glad to know what it is I am expected to be shocked, scandalized, or saddened about.

  23. "I can say there is a lot of room for improvement, but things are better than the 70s."

    Mr. Ortiz, you are undoubtedly correct in that! I'm sure the occasional Agnus Dei you hear at a Nervous Disorder mass is better than the Kumbaya of yore! Slowly, baby steps are being taken, a good sign, to be sure.

    But the problem with the liturgical reform (shall I say, "disform") is a bit more systemic.

    What I'm getting at really drives to the heart of what it means to be Catholic (and I know I and others have said this a million times, and I hope when dirt is put over me, it is said a million more):

    Holy Mass is not what you get, but what you give! We go to worship Almighty God, not to be fed sound bites! The NO is completely lacking the primary purpose for Holy Mass: to perpetuate, in an unbloody manner, the Sacrifice of Christ. It is almost 'silent' in that respect. Thus, the New Mass is almost 'silent' to the most salient purpose for which mass exists: the Sacrifice. Take that one step further, and one can say the New Mass almost completely ignores the greatest and most perfect prayer we can give to Almighty God.

    I would submit that that is why the Church is crumbling (though She will never fail or fall-Her armor is just presently getting chinked by the liberals within her); Mass is nothing else than the greatest prayer we give to Almighty God. The Transubstantiated Eucharist, which we normally receive at Holy Mass, is the penultimate Sacrament. You muddle that formula, man, and you are screwed!

    Here is what Msgr. Gherardini says on-point:

    "The new rite of Holy Mass practically silenced the nature of sacrifice making of it an occasion for gathering together the people of God...the eucharistic gathering was given the mere sense of sharing a meal together..."

    Is that not correct? Do any of you reading this feel the Novus Ordo sufficiently perpetuates Christ's unbloody Sacrifice?

  24. Tom the Milkman11:42 PM

    Does Rome approve this idiocy? Rome certainly knows it. &the chap still operates, no doubt. What sort of fellow wants to create a fictional religious rite and call it catholic? Rome will never act. She's paralyzed. The poison of Modernism is narcotic. Partake and you start believing you've ascended to a higher realm, to a greater truth. Your feet are on the ground, your head on your shoulders. but the affections of chaos are not what they appear. They seduce you only to leave you. The Church is so wounded, like Christ's wounds, and this fellow helps not a whit.

  25. Well, the word "sacrifice" is in the offeratory of the NO, as well as in other places, especially Eucharistic Prayer I, essentially the Roman Canon.

    Has it been ignored?

    Sadly, yes.

  26. Anonymous12:46 AM

    Mr. Werling,

    While I agree that a diamond appears all the more beautiful compared to ash, that wasn't my point. Who are we trying to convince? The modernists who support the heretical liturgy illustrated in the picture are not going to flock to traditional liturgies because they read something on the internet. Rather, the audience that needs to be swayed consists of the more or less orthodox Catholics that are currently content with a Novus Ordo Mass offered according to the rubrics.

  27. Mr. Ortiz, I noticed on your profile that you are blackpowder rifle fan. By that I infer you are interested in the Civil War.

    If you ever get to Fredericksburg, VA, Marye's Heights is fascinating on many level. But my favorite story of the Civil War is the "Angel of Marye's Heights". Essentially, a Confederate Soldier braved life and limb to break cover and give water to dying Union soldiers, an almost suicidal act, but he couldn't stand to hear their pleas for water any longer, as they lay dying. Though, once they knew what he was doing, both Union and Confederate Soldiers broke out in cheers for him, both sides calling him the "Angel of Marye's"! He died a year later in another Civil War Battle.

    I don't know why I thought of that! It's one of the interesting attributes of the mind: sometimes it segues into avenues you didn't think it would! (And sorry Rorate-blog moderators, will try to stay on-topic!)

  28. These modernists elements "added with but little advantage..." should they not be post-haste discarded??

  29. Anonymous3:46 AM

    I think the this is one of the better posts about the "revision" of the mass in the NO because it quotes the VC II document that is the basis of the NO. The picture without the quote is going to be viewed as Traditionalists gripping but with the quote it shows there might be a point to their complaints.

    This shows why VC II needs to be reviewed from the very documents it produced all the way to the out comes it generated. This is not simply a misinterpretation but rather an execution of those very documents.


  30. Anonymous4:27 AM

    My research shows that the Lasallian brothers do not have priests - they are brothers - and laypersons. Are you quite sure, New Catholic, that Miguel Angel Sastre is a priest?

    Here is someone named Miguel Angel Sastre, from Spain, who is an icon painter, not a priest. Could it be the same person? If so, then the facts of this article have gotten a little mixed up:

  31. Anonymous6:15 AM

    Anon 21:38,

    "Perhaps it would be more beneficial to our cause if this blog focused more on the beauty and grace of the traditional liturgy than continuing to post scandalous images of the Novus Ordo. Most people who come here are already aware of the catastrophe of the liturgical 'renewal'"

    Lest we forget......Our Lord is the One most gravely offended by these disgraceful abuses which have become "normalised" .....the faithful have been kind of brainwashed,'s a fearful thing that has happened in the Church and must be continuation, if possible... As Father Z. says "Another reason we needed Summorum Pontificum. Thank you Holy Father!

    To: Anon 20:01

    No chaos in the Church? Which haven do you hail from? The Holy Father has most definitely addressed "the crisis" in the Church and as Cardinal, in 2005 Via Crucis, denounced "the filth" ....


  32. You are right that he is not a Lasallian brother, and we corrected the post to make it clearer. However, he is certainly a priest, and that is claimed by the original post itself:

  33. It is important to keep exposing liturgical abuse otherwise the establishment would claim that there is no need to fix the NO. We also need to ensure the same does not happen to The Latin Mass now falling into the hands of inexperienced presbyters from the NO mould.

    Furthermore, Anonymous Said, if systemic abuse were not so omnipresent in the church liturgy then Pope Benedict XVI would not be attempting to radically mend the damage done already and which continues to be done openly and regularly.
    The evidence that increases on this site and elsewhere together with perspectives supplied above from this site and from contributors, demonstrates amply the points I have made. Against this, specious argument and pretense will never convince. Alas!The reality is there for us all to witness. It is heart-breaking but it has to be eradicated for the good of all who attend Holy Mass on Sunday.

  34. Gratias7:25 AM

    The earthenware chalices and the sitting down priest are a good illustration of the Modernist Ordinary Mass. The Spanish website explains that the Cardinal of Madrid has not permitted a single Lattin Mass there, yet this travesty is celebrated.

    The modernist Novus Ordo is getting worse. Here in Los Angeles the recently retired Roger Cardinal Mahoney did his worst to vulgarize the liturgy. First the Confiteor was omitted. About ten years ago we got altar girls. About five years ago we had to start holding hands during the Paternoster, forming a chain like the Protestants. Then we got tambourines in the band (the poor Mexicans have to put up with mariachis). Finally, kneeling is now strongly discouraged during consecration, with the priest saying please remain standing. Unbelievable how much damage a single Bishop can make.

    Once a month (sometimes more) we drive 75 miles to attend the Latin Mass in San Juan Buenaventura Mission (1:30 PM, every Sunday). It is like breathing fresh air. Try it, it is well worth the effort.

  35. Anonymous11:56 AM

    After all, NOT A THING is to cheap for GOD. In this Vac II church.

  36. J.G. Ratkaj1:12 PM

    Neo-conservatives want to make believe that liturgies like this are isolated cases. Unfortunately that is action programme in innumerable parishes. I have first seen such rituals in the early sixties as a heterodox group of young german missionaries arrived and built up a "Basisgemeinde", base community, some kilometres outside Salvador da Bahia. Fifty years later things like this are rule rather than the exception. To put a gloss on´it and play down the liturgical chaos is the agenda.

  37. Perhaps some have missed the irony evident in the passages of SC that were in bold type as posted with the photo. Read them again and look at the photo. Fr Miguel, in his zeal to implement the spirit of SC, in fact ends by violating the letter:

    1. "For this purpose the rites are to be 'simplified'."

    Fr Miquel does not simplify here but rather does the opposite with the numerous cups which violate the sign Christ instituted of the one bread and one cup.

    2. "added with but little advantage":

    Fr Miguel does just this.

    3. "elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated":

    Fr Miguel does this duplicating which has been proscribed and places himself outside the norms.

    4. Fr Miguel now relegates himself to a mere "accident of history", thus also to be "discarded"?

  38. It is not true that the Archbishop of Madrid does not allow the TLM in his large diocese - that can be seen as false in one of the following posts. What is claimed is that Cardinal Rouco Varela is somewhat keen on limiting the offer of the TLM in a diocese that is very large and includes a considerable number of people who could be attracted to the Traditional Mass. I really cannot substantiate this claim.


  39. Knight of Malta,

    That's fine...yes, I do find the Civil War fascinating. Though I am a strong Union-man!

    Haven't been to the battlefield you mention--one of these days!!

  40. Real objective pictorial and written evidence are not mere "subjective opinions", Mr Anonymous Said. You are showing yourself up a little here.

    Another salient pointis we no longer need to look for it because it is so plentifully documented on a weekly basis around the world, including French archbishops and bishops who deliight in circus masses on a large block table in the circus ring while there is a performance going on around them & even occasional fireworks and half-dressed betighted acrobats among the performers with lampooning clowns.

    Moreover, the pope has stated that the modern church is like a barque taking in water which is another manner of expressing the same idea of an imminent state of chaos. Perhaps you were not aware but you are now. When a pope takes measures to re-form the NO it is because there is something amiss.

    Indeed, we may know more than a pope about some things. Remember he is often shielded from some aspects of the terrible corruption that persists although certainly not all. He does not know everything about everything. Please be more realistic than that.


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