Rorate Caeli

A Vatican II Moment:
The "reform of the reform", 6 years on

We were sent a link to Argentinian blog Catapulta, which had some really curious images of Eucharistic Adoration as practiced by Consolata Missionaries in Brazil - the images were from 2009 and 2010 (link).

We then figured that, considering the great strides of the new "liturgical movement" making waves through the Church and of the "reform of the reform", the images of this year would be certainly better. Just a quick look through the latest images of their 2011 Lent retreat confirmed our greatest hopes:

Note the deep concentration and great excitement of those present. We cannot wait for the moments of mutual enrichment and the beneficial influence of a greater "fluidity of motion".


  1. Anonymous5:11 PM

    I don't think I have ever seen less-interested looking people in my life.

    At least the monstrance is beautiful. (Or does that make it worse?)

  2. Anonymous5:35 PM

    Yes, the Monstrance is beautiful.

    Aside from that, the only thing I will say is that a picture is worth a thousand words. The only thing sadder than this spectacle is a picture of a now empty and abandoned but once full and thriving monastery/convent.


  3. Anonymous5:39 PM

    Just because your snobbish brats in scoutuniforms always have that pious look whenever you are around. Get a life!

  4. Thank you, sir! Or madam! God bless you, too.

  5. Henry5:50 PM

    As Father Z would say, reason # 3,742,561 for Summorum Pontificum (and now Universae Ecclesiae). And the indication that it make take at least a century for news of the liturgical reform to reach certain parts of the world. I fear that neither Latin nor the new English translation of the Novus Ordo will cut much ice where these photos were taken. (Please don't get the idea that I'm some kind of snob.)

  6. The traditional Mass needs no “enrichment” or “fluidity of motion,” especially from the fabricated, banal, on-the-spot product of the Novus Ordo. Poison enriches nothing. Poison only kills.

    Liturgical vandals, STOP! Keep your filthy hands off the Mass! Become Protestants once and for all!

  7. Anonymous6:14 PM

    Just not CATHOLIC.

  8. Anonymous6:51 PM

    Corpus Christi (Thursday) Extraordinary Form Holy Mass at St. Mark's Catholic Church in Toronto!

    Laudeteur Jesus Christus,


    In the last 18 hours, we have managed to pull off a little miracle, an Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite Holy Mass in Toronto on the Solemnity of Corpus Christi, on its day, Thursday, June 23, 2011 at 7:00PM at St. Mark’s Catholic Church on Park Lawn Road, north of The Queensway, in Etobicoke.

    The Celebrant will be Father Kim D’Souza. For now, it will be a Missa Cantata, if possible over the next while, it may develop to a Missa Solemnis.

    We need you!

    • Master of Ceremonies
    • Altar Servers
    • Choir
    • Clean up help for the ladies in the hall, etc.

    The Mass is being sponsored by Una Voce Toronto.

    Please write or call me with your ability to assist.

    Long live the Pope!

    David Anthony Domet
    President, Una Voce Toronto

    Sincerely, Neophyte

  9. Anonymous7:24 PM

    The TLM needs no "enrichment" from the man-made thing called the Novus Ordo, it is the other way around.

  10. Yeah, ya snobs; take that!!

    Maybe if you were humbler and read The Bible you'd know that Jesus rode on an ass on the way to eat the pasch and yet we never see the priest ride into the sanctuary on an ass or a colt of a donkey or, if they lived in Palm Beach County Florida, a crocodile.

    You pious-puss prigs outta get a life or what not.

  11. Anonymous7:28 PM

    Two forms of the same one rite, united to Peter.

  12. CredoUtIntelligam7:33 PM

    The girl third from the right is priceless! God bless her! I suppose when my little girl turns fourteen I'll become exceedingly familiar with that pose . . .

  13. Is this at the La Reja seminary?
    Only kidding.

  14. Liturgical Inquisitor: "Look at the picture!"

    RadTrad: "No!"

    Liturgical Inquisitor: "Look at the picture!"

    RadTrad: "I confess, I confess: it IS legitimate!"

    Liturgical Inquisitor: "No, wait, exposition/adoration is not 'the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria'."

    RadTrad: "Oh, OK, then. But, just for the record, I confessed."

  15. Steve8:34 PM

    The "reform of the reform", 6 years on...

    Did the Vatican get rid of their $$$ BILLIONS $$$, because that is what it is going to take.

  16. at least they are seeing a monstrance. I went through 12 yrs of "CCD" starting in '64 and 4 yrs at Boston College. In those 16 yrs. the rosary was never mentioned. I had never seen or knew what a monstrance was. I fell away from going to Mass and the Sacraments. I didn't know what a sacrament was nor did I know of their importance. Then I "reverted" in '92 and found out about Fr. Feeney. He was correct

  17. M. A.8:37 PM

    May I share my depressing news, too?

    It has just been announced that our new bishop (Joliet diocese) will be Bishop Daniel Conlon, ordained in '77 by Joseph Bernardin, and known to be no friend of the TLM.

  18. Benjoyce: it IS always good to look at the brighter side of things. Thanks.

    M.A.: Well, at least there are already TLMs in the Diocese of Joliet. Quite hard to roll that back now.

  19. Thank God that Eucharistic Adoration was offered for these youth. If our liturgical "experts" had won, this devotion would be a mere historical memory by now. Please say a "Hail Mary" for these youth to grow from their encounter with Christ.

    Also, don't let the "bored" look on their faces get you down. This is real life, folks. Sometimes we traditional Catholics create a little world where only saints or especially holy and attentive people are real Catholics. This is as artificial as the polyester vestments we decry. Real Catholicism (which is also, of course, traditional Catholicism) has always been for the sinful and the ginful (read: normal people). It's for normal people who get distracted even in the midst of beauty. It's for the sinners who often don't recognize the Christ before them, even while trying to grow in devotion. I'm one of them, are you? Rewind this picture 50 years and the youth of the pre-Vatican II church would have had their own distractions (of course, you'd have to straighten up the surroundings, cover some female heads, and insert Sister Sledge(hammer), O.P. - or given the boredom of the kiddies, is that "P.O."? ;) ).

    Lighten up, my friends. Thank God that Catholic traditions are coming back, keep praying for the full restoration, and remember, traditional Catholicism is for the normal and distracted, not just the super-pious.

  20. Anonymous9:00 PM

    A yes more "Springtime" from Vatican 2. p.s. there are no crocodiles in Palm Beach County only Alligators.

  21. Adam, I really do not think you grasped the problem here. The problem is not the young people, who reacted indeed as they should be expected to react - but those responsible for this utter disrespect for the M.H. Sacrament. Most young people are not particularly drawn to these things, I grant you that, but even less so when they are treated in a ridiculously condescending way. These boys and girls must be commended for at least keeping a respectful attitude - as respectful as they were taught to be. This really is not the point at all.


  22. Anonymous9:08 PM

    Our Traditional Mass of All Times will never die, the fabricated Novus Ordo will.

  23. Anonymous9:26 PM

    Can't blame the kids only Vatican 2, this is what it brought us,

  24. I have seen a picture of a lay missionary with a monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament on a kitchen table, so this does not surprise me. It reminds me of the pseudo-Masses that occur in many Catholic schools' gymnasiums; understandably, those students are very bored and disinterested, too.

  25. I think all the enrichment should go from the TLM -> NO.

    I've said this in the past, the ONLY enrichment that can move the other way, from NO->TLM is including sins of omission in the TLM confiteor. So lets just include sins of omission in the TLM confiteor and then change the rest of the NO to the TLM and call it a the hybrid rite, the REAL Vatican II liturgy.

    There problem solved.

  26. Anonymous9:50 PM

    Why was my comment re: LaReja pulled and a vulgar comment allowed to stay?

    Delphina wants to know.

  27. Anonymous9:51 PM

    Martin Luther would be happy.

  28. I've struggled to figure out what the n.o. could really contribute to the TLM - beyond, obviously, feast days of recently canonized saints.

    Fr. Z and Fr. Thompson seem only able to suggest a better mentality for priests during celebration: pretty thin stuff, at least for anyone not celebrating.

    The best I can come up with is dedicated readings for all ordinary weekdays - even if it means a thicker missal. But the reform of the reform movement seems more ambitious than that.

    The Roman Rite was not mean to be frozen in amber. It has taken on very minor changes, very gradually, over time - that is to say, organically. The difficulty is that almost no traditionalists trust Rome right now to do any tinkering whatsoever. It may be decades before that changes.

  29. @rams: Actually the Dominican Rite already mentions sins of omission in its Confiteor.

  30. Jitpring, on one level I agree with you. If the Tridentine Mass is to be 'enriched' it should be from pre-Tridentine medieval forms, not from the Committee Liturgy of the Novus Ordo.

  31. The Tridentine Mass comes from a cut down curial use of the Roman Rite. It could certainly be greatly enriched by supplementing it, on a diocesan or even parochial level, with medieval accretions and practices. The Novus Ordo is a travesty - anything created by a committee of intellectuals usually is. It has nothing to offer the Old Mass and should either be abolished or retained as a reminder of how NOT to do liturgy.

  32. Anonymous11:32 PM

    Not a big surprise (although always sad). Brazil has undergone a very long mutation in its Catholicism since long ago.

    All you can imagine, from protestant-like liturgies (very common, particularly with the massive spread of "charismatics") to the far leftist infiltration of liturgies making them look like a political assemblies.
    Some of this evil spirit has also come to my own country (Argentina).

    What we have here now is pretty much a watered down version from our Brazilian counterparts, but with same high levels of disrespect and banality.
    Just take a look at the "mass for children" done by the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires...

    Meanwhile, my family and I take secure and peaceful refuge in our beloved SSPX chapel.


  33. Anonymous11:36 PM

    Sorry.. I forgot to mention that with all that said, it is pretty impressive these folks still have a monstrance and the Holy Eucharist in it. Honestly, that is good (don't take me wrong, I do not condone all the banality of this "adoration" but these young kids are not aware of that. The responsibility is on the adults that should know better).

  34. "Well, at least there are already TLMs in the Diocese of Joliet. Quite hard to roll that back now."

    Niggardly offerings - ONE priest for the entire diocese.

    Anti-trad Imesch is still around,and exerts influence here. Conlon and Imesch: two peas in a pod.

    We'll see.

  35. Anonymous12:27 AM

    Timothy Mulligan

    We were taught "how to act" in Church in the 1st grade before the Second Vatican Council.

    These young people have never been taught. In fact, it is safe to say that many are encouraged to display this type of behavior.

    Put it down to yet another fruit of Vatican II.

  36. Anonymous12:31 AM


    Same in my diocese - one TLM for the entire diocese, and it's a secret. If you do not know that it exist, you will not know except by word of mouth. It has never been advertised in the diocesan paper - not once.


  37. Anonymous12:33 AM

    Sorry to hear that M.A., here in the Las Vegas Diocese, we have bishop Joseph Pepe another anti-Traditional Latin Mass fan. All you get here is altar girls, ghastly music, guitars, life teen, liturgical dancing, and no TLM, he would never allow that sort of thing.

  38. Anonymous12:39 AM

    I think Father Z. is now thinking its the TLM or nothing, this enrichment thing and reform of the reform ain't working. How can it? when the TLM is perfect and the man made thing called the Novus Ordo is not!!! I mean really guitars and cantors waving their hands in the air, as opposed to Mozart, Palestrina, Hayden, well you get it. At least the High Church Anglicans know what REAL church music should sound like.

  39. Anonymous2:24 AM

    I don't get it... what is the big deal about what Father Z says or does not say... what he thinks and what he doesn't... is it really that important?

  40. Benjoyce: they may be looking at a Monstrance now, but in ten years, where will their faith be?

    Btw, I like the "reform of the reform" idea. Sure, I've seen a Novus Ordo where they sing Kyrie and Agnus Dei. But the whole "mutual enrichment" idea is scandalous.

    I agree with one of the posters; you don't put rotten apples in the bushel with good apples. Fine, you can "reform your reform" but cutting off some of the rot (though you will never get rid of all the rot until the whole rotten apple is discarded).

  41. Anonymous2:54 AM

    This kind of crap will never go away - unless the Novus Ordo Missae goes away!

  42. Jack O'Malley3:12 AM

    Much as I am a booster of the TLM, I distinctly remember such looks of boredom on the faces of my schoolmates at a typical Low Mass. But Benediction was special; we'd walk to the church and the whole congregation would sing "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Tantum Ergo Sacramentum". The reform of the reform should include a prohibition of Low Masses.

    BTW, is Fr. Zed (Zee) a parish priest? He seems to spend all his time on his "Sabine" farm. I thought there was a shortage of priests. He could have a job in O'Malley's archdiocese. The padres there are really overworked.

  43. Anonymous3:21 AM

    First of all they are dressed in street clothes can't they dress up for Our Lord Jesus Christ and 2nd they should all be KNEELING before the monstrance, after all don't they know it is Jesus? Or do they????? The later question seems to be the case. But what can you expect from anything coming down from Vatican 2.

  44. Anonymous3:26 AM

    Bring back our high altars, statues, communion rails, kneelers, our Gregorian chant, and of course the Traditional Latin Mass and then you will see true restoration. This garbage has gone on far too long and it will eventually die from its on poison. The Novus Ordo is a sham foisted upon the people, yet we let it happen!!!

  45. "The difficulty is that almost no traditionalists trust Rome right now to do any tinkering whatsoever."

    That's just it. I don't trust these philistine vandal tinkerers a bit. They've earned this distrust.

  46. Steve4:56 AM

    This has absolutly nothing to do with "the reform of the reform." Trying to knock down a straw man won't make you look tuff.

  47. Steve, Steve... This is just an assessment of how the "reform of the reform" process is advancing around the world. The "Benedictine altar arrangement" is really interesting, but it does not seem to be reaching many places...

  48. Anonymous5:50 AM

    Just because you have a central crucifix, six canldles does not mean everything is back to normal. You can have all that, and still have altar girls, liturgical dancing, guitars, drums, female lectors, hand holding, etc. The answer is the complete return of the TLM and scrap the Novus Ordo "worship service".

  49. what an utterly pointless posting.

  50. And yet you made a point of reading and commenting it.

    Thanks for your readership!


  51. NC, So, if I read an heretical post somewhere else and engage in the combox to state that fact, you are suggesting that was pointless also?

  52. "wisdom starts with fear of the Lord"

    the bible says this twice. If you don't fear the Lord you never start.

    this is what is wrong with the young for the last 50 years.

  53. Precisely: the heretic would have a point (even if an invalid one), which you would feel compelled to respond with your own observation.

    In any event, this post has several "points": you may not like any of them, may disagree with all, but none of this makes it "pointless".

    Thank you for your readership!

  54. Anonymous11:01 AM

    The attacks on the SVC do become tiresome and tedious.

    What the debate is really about is of course not the liturgy at all, it is but a diverision to models of ecclesiology and the desire of some to re-create a nineteenth century model of church.

  55. I believe you mean a "nineteen centuries" model of the Church...

  56. Following your link to WDTPRS, Fr. Augustine Thompson, OP, seems to be making an excellent point.

    Do you notice that none of the children practicing norvus ordo adoration before the monstrance are sitting or praying in a rigid fashion. They are all exhibiting a spontaneous, natural "fluidity of motion."

    Oh what an enrichment the NO can bring to the TLM!!

  57. Scott3:21 PM

    As a member of the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada, Traditional Anglican Communion, I have been a little confused about our communion's presence in Latin America.
    I've asked myself, "Why would these catholics feel the need join our church?"
    Perhaps these photos give us a clue.

  58. Anonymous4:57 PM

    "Just because you have a central crucifix, six canldles does not mean everything is back to normal. You can have all that, and still have altar girls, liturgical dancing, guitars, drums, female lectors, hand holding, etc. The answer is the complete return of the TLM and scrap the Novus Ordo 'worship service'."

    There's a point to what you have written.

    Some years ago, we had an FSSP priest share "worship space" (as those in the know call the sanctuary these days) with a novus ordo priest. When the FSSP would have the TLM, you could always pick out those who were regular novus ordo attendees.

    My point is that you can take a present day Catholic away from the novus ordo, but it will not be easy to rid them of the novus ordo mentality.


  59. Anonymous6:29 PM

    For me Novus Ordonarians are very alien to me. Side by side The True Mass and the man-made NO service are like nite and day, I can understand their confusion, when all you have to do is just sit there, listen to banal music, dancing girls, a presider who does nothing and lets laymen do all the work I realize why they are confused at the TLM. At the TLM they are seeing the True Sacrifice of the Mass, while at the Novus Ordo it is mearly a stage performence which is all about them and not Our Lord.

  60. A Brechtian moment indeed!