Rorate Caeli

The Legacy of Vatican II

The programme of renewal proposed by the Second Vatican Council was sometimes misinterpreted and indeed, in the light of the profound social changes that were taking place, it was far from easy to know how best to implement it. In particular, there was a well-intentioned but misguided tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations. It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse, which has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of faith and the loss of respect for the Church and her teachings.
Benedict XVI
Pastoral Letter to the Catholics of Ireland
March 19, 2010

50 comments:

  1. Joe B2:24 PM

    And until there are numerous firings, it will continue.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous2:59 PM

    "he Second Vatican Council was sometimes misinterpreted"

    The understatement of B16's pontificate...



    Considering that as a periti of Vatican II he called for the abolition of the Holy Office, which office's duty was punishing paedofiles, I'd think a stronger statement would be warrented: something like: "The naivitè of many like myself, for novelty and modernization, overlooked the tragic consequences of original sin which are ever present among mankind, even those who are ordained ministers of the Church"

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous3:28 PM

    Haha ! This is the worse possible thing ANYBODY could ever say about Vatican II, ESPECIALLY when coming from thw writings of a Pope and conciliar peritus !

    ReplyDelete
  4. Until the real problem is addressed, predatory homosexual abuse of pubescent teen boys, nothing is going to change.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous4:08 PM

    Unless, until the Pope cleans house, and follows up this letter with massive re-structuring, firings of bishops and priests both in Ireland, USA, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Australia, Brazil, France and in the Vatican Curia itself where dissent and a warped and dissenting radical interpretation of the already radical "reforms" of Vatican Ii has been applied, the rot and corruption of which this sexual abuse by priests is only 1 manifestation, will continue.

    A total and complete repudiation of the "Spirit of Vatican II" and all that came from it both liturgically and well ad in other practises (catechism, religious and seminary formation, parish life) is what is called for.

    The supression of nearly all liberal religious Orders (priests and nuns) is also a necessary process in the healing of this crisis....for far more religious Order priests have been guilty than diosecean clergy.

    The healing will begin, only when Vatican II is repidiated.

    ReplyDelete
  6. And get rid of Classroom sex-ed in parochial schools under the name of safe environment programs.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This is a column in today’s Irish Independent on the culpability of psychiatrists by Patricia Casey, Professor of Psychiatry at University College Dublin, consultant psychiatrist at the Mater Misericordiae University Hospital, Dublin, and editor of the Psychiatric Bulletin:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/patricia-casey-psychiatrists-must-take-share-of-blame-on-abuse-2105623.html

    ReplyDelete
  8. A tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations??

    What??

    Where was the tendency to avoid a penal approach in 1988??

    I spent six years in the seminary watching good friend after good friend kicked out for one trumped up charge after another. There was no tendency to avoid a penal approach then!

    The problem isn't a tendency to avoid a penal approach. There was plenty of use of penalties and other oppressive methods to silence the voice of conservative and traditional Catholics. NO, Holy Faher! NO, NO, NO! Respectfully, you are wrong. The tragic destruction of so many priestly vocations is like a river of blood flowing right the through the heart of the Church Militant. Why are you so bent on ignoring this gaping wound?!

    No. The problem is a selective approach in applying penalties. Those who were penalized were those who did not share the progressive, liberal, morally permissive and pro-homosexual ideology of those who were in control of the Church's institutions. These people didn't come to power at the time of implementation. These people didn't come to power AFTER the Council, but DURING the Council.

    Unfortunately the Holy Father isn't doing much here but avoiding the real problem. I suspect the problem of abusive priests will continue until the Church's leadership stops talking about how the Church is blame, and starts addressing that it is they, the leaders, who are to blame.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous6:04 PM

    That's odd. There were lots of penal approaches when it came to the canonically irregular situation of the Society of St. Pius X.

    Vatican II misinterpreted? Yes, it was misinterpreted by the Council fathers: they completely misunderstood what the so-called periti intended. That's why they voted in favour of documents that were open in meaning to error and even heresy. The misintepretation started at the origin.

    The problem was not with the liberals who were appointed to interpret the documents. The problem lies in the documents themselvs. THey need to be redrafted one by one to clarify their meaning and exclude any possibility of misunderstanding. In some cases, that means that the most obvious meaning of passages is the one that needs to be excluded.

    As for the problem the Pope refers to, a good departure point would be the rescinding of his own seminary document, a document that makes the abominable error or distinguishing between those with 'deep seated' tendencies and those having 'other' (shallow-seated?) tendencies--and then leaving the distinction up to the local diocesan authorities. Nobody who has ever had any such tendencies should ever be allowed near a seminary, even though he is now normal. Is it finally time to close the door? Those supposedly only having passing youthful tendencies to sexual inversion are 'just fine'. On the contrary, some of them wiil be full-blown inverts who will later abuse children. That's why they all need to be excluded. If you are hiring someone to guard your money, you don't choose a reformed thief. Safer to choose someone who never stole a cent.

    How to do it? Polygraph testing, psychological testing, and a one-indication-and-you're-out policy. This will exclude some normal men by mistake but that's all right: the priesthood is not a right. Bring those measures in and normal men will feel safe to join again. Until tough measures are instituted, there is no way this scandal will abate, and it is bringing down the Church.

    If the Church doesn't take resolute action, the liberals will have their way and it's the end of celibacy. That, of course, is what is behind this media campaign.

    It is no longer about who is normal and who is not. It is already about what the Church seems to be all about. Right now, it 'seems' to be a place you don't want to leave your children in unattended.

    P.K.T.P.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous6:09 PM

    We don't need to abolish the old religiious orders, as someone here suggested. We simply need to do the following:

    (a) institute an absolute ban of anyone ever having any tendencies of sexual inverstion. This can be done at for seminary entrance requirements, by polygraphy and psychological testing. Another such test would examine seminary behaviour just prior to diaconal ordination.

    2. Remove any priests and all clerics who have ever shown any tendency to sexual inversion: laicise all of them.


    It is not possible to get rid of many of the others who are already priests. They have to be phased out, not removed. This is owing to certain principles of justice. Moreover, the situation has now changed and such men will not, in the future, have the acceess to adolescents they once had. Changes can be made to assure that.

    P.K.T.P.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous6:58 PM

    Vatican II and its aftermath did more to weaken the faith and cause the loss of respect for the Church and Her teachings than the homosexuals ever did.

    Face facts. This is still going on and will continue to go on. It hasn't stopped here in the USA and why should it? The fools in the pews payed to bail the dioceses out. Some in my parish refinanced their homes to give our diocese money for the lawsuits. That was after we got several "stop punishing the Church" "homilies".

    The Church makes me ill.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "A tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations?? What??"

    David there was indeed a tendency among Irish canonists to avoid 'penal' approaches in the post-conciliar era; that may be what his Holiness is referring to.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/28/catholic-child-abuse-ireland

    and

    http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?id=66910255-3048-741E-3580113482338543

    ReplyDelete
  13. Vatican II contains a lot of ambiguity in key areas. This helps fuel problems.

    Until a Pope realizes this all efforts are not going to be fully effective.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Martin8:37 PM

    Here we understand how providential Mgr Lefebvre's action was.

    I am sorry, but the nice words from the Holy Father are not up to the task.

    ReplyDelete
  15. M. A.8:44 PM

    "A tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations??

    What??'
    ____________________

    I had the same reaction as David. That statement makes no sense to me. To whom is the Holy Father referring?

    I remember years ago, in a conversation with the late Fr. John O'Connor, OP, that he told me that anymore "only the good [priests] get suspended".

    For anyone who is not familiar with the persecution of Fr. O'Connor, he was suspended because of his refusal to go to a "rehab" center where patients at times had to submit to electrical shock treatments, this because he was 'blowing the whistle" on certain perverts in his Order. It was terrible what they did to him.

    "Penalties" were swiftly meted out to him, to the Abbe de Nantes, to Fr. Gruner, and of course to Archbishop Lefebvre. No, I do not for one minute believe that there was a "tendency to avoid penal approaches"!

    ReplyDelete
  16. If the Anonymous whingers rallied to the Pope rather than point scoring that would be a fine thing.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm thinking of the phrase: "Words good; actions better." Your Holiness, faithful Catholics all over the world are begging for you to act to release from any impediment the priests who have only tried to act according to what Holy Mother Church has always taught and professed to be true. That means priests are to be holy first and foremost and, if they are not, they should be removed from the clerical state.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous9:08 PM

    What can one do as an individual layperson? One thing for sure is stop funding the institutions and people who perpetuate this mess. Give your money to traditional orders and not the diocese (unless you are lucky to live in one of the handful of good ones).

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous9:21 PM

    The homosexual subculture in seminaries and religious communities must come to an end. That is the real problem. There has been too much "tolerance" in letting these men into religious life and now we reap what we have sown.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I fear that Paul Haley is preaching the sort of clericalism that got us into this mess. I'm sure a lot of the abusers looked very holy indeed. It's not hard to look holy, as our Lord continually told us.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Mr. Haley said absolutely nothing about "looking" holy, Shadrach.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous11:42 PM

    Really, I would lay off the Holy Father. His letter is a good start.

    I am no fan of John Allen, but he has a good article on NCR..http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/will-ratzingers-past-trump-benedicts-present

    Worth reading. Benedict understands. He is also not one to move quickly, but when he does, it's usually the right move at the right time.

    Also, I do think the "gay sub-culture" in the seminaries should be shut down within two years. World-wide. That's also what the letter addresses: visitations.

    Also, if one had "tendencies" towards same-sex desire, never acted on them, is reformed, well, I think prudently one could admit such a person to seminary. But yes, one strike, you're out, is the only policy to live by.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I fear that Paul Haley is preaching the sort of clericalism that got us into this mess. I'm sure a lot of the abusers looked very holy indeed. It's not hard to look holy, as our Lord continually told us.

    Not every priest or bishop is an abuser and there are many good clerics in Ireland and elsewhere. We must be careful about applying the "guilt by association" tactic which obviously helps no one.

    Anyone who knows me and reads what I've posted knows that I put the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as the highest priority in solving the problems besetting the Church in our time. That's not clericalism; it's appealing to a higher power.

    At the same time, I've appealed to the Holy Father to free up the resources available to him in the FSSPX and among independents. That doesn't appear to me as clericalism - just good common sense borne out of Justice.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous12:27 AM

    This abuse was going on LONG before Vatican II I can assure you and even MORE SO - so please stop blaming Vatican II for all of this mess! Let's have an academic discussion about all of this rather than an ignorant rant!!!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous12:56 AM

    I concur completely with David Werling and others like Paul Haley and P.K.T.P who expressed a similar view. The problem is with those in position of authority who are in charge of selecting the candidates to the priesthood, that prefer the progressive, liberal and pro-homosexual ones, in lieu of the straight types.I also agree that pedophile priests and abusers should be released of the priesthood.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Well how does one reliably judge holiness? It's not a science. And dissimulation has always been with us on this matter. Only the Lord knows the state of the heart and soul. Not bishops, not directors of studies, not lay people. They rely to a large degree on appearances. They have to.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous1:28 AM

    The strangest thing about this letter is that the Pope asks Irish Catholics to offer up their Friday penances for one year in reparation for the sins committed. Since when do the wronged do penance for another's sin ?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous3:02 AM

    I can tell you one of the most disgusting things in my life is to meet priests who presume every preist or religious is a sodomite like themselves.

    In my life as a vocation and religious, I have been propositioned 4 times by such sickoes....

    All ordained....

    Of course for refusing, I am on a list of those never to be ordained...

    What particularly dismays me is how this vice is condoned by some very notable clercis, who say such things as, if you get caught with photos, make a good confessoin and then deny everything in civil court!

    And I am not talking about liberal confessors!

    Oh the wonderful and beautiful purity of Christ and His Mother: if a vocation does not thirst for that, he should not be allowed into a formation program.

    Most formation programs even in conservative or traditional groups are very inept, as they do not talk about purity, ever. I recally one famous conservative theologian say in seminary class, that so long as you only think about it, its not a sin! I was aghast, and when I cornered him with St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus' teaching the opposite, he refused to correct himself, saying that I had a hangup!

    Sincerely,

    faithful catholic vocation who will never give up

    ReplyDelete
  29. The strangest thing about this letter is that the Pope asks Irish Catholics to offer up their Friday penances for one year in reparation for the sins committed. Since when do the wronged do penance for another's sin ?

    It's not doing penance for another's sin. It's offering your penances in reparation for the ways that others have offended God. Haven't you heard of the long-established practice of Catholics doing acts of reparation when they learn of sacrilege against the Blessed Sacrament or against a church? Acts of reparation for the sake of the victims of homosexual clerical predation, and for the intention of the repentance and conversion of the sodomites and their episcopal enablers, is a wholesome and necessary thing.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous5:41 AM

    Here we have the usual liberal rant:

    "This abuse was going on LONG before Vatican II I can assure you and even MORE SO - so please stop blaming Vatican II for all of this mess! Let's have an academic discussion about all of this rather than an ignorant rant!!!"

    The argument is that it was going on for ages and ages but it just wasn't reported--and for very good reasons. Similarly, there were lots of leprachauns back then but they just weren't reported either.

    Of course there were *some* cases before 1965. No kidding! The question is whether or not there was an explosion of cases from the time of the sexual revolution to the present. Of course, there was. When the Vatican II inanities descended on the Church, the good men left the seminaries and decided to follow serious professions instead of the new joke. That meant that they had to take in the flakes, and the rest is history.

    No, it's not just that everyone's reporting it these days. There is another reason for some many reports past 1970 and so few before. The reason is an enormous change in behaviour. Under the old system, anyone who was even drunk in seminary was thrown out the door.

    P.K.T.P.

    ReplyDelete
  31. FranzJosf1:51 PM

    I see reason for hope. Although it is not fast enough for many of you, this letter has implications far beyond the sexual abuse in Ireland. Finally, we're going to get action. As the letter states, there will be numerous Apostolic Visitations (including Dioceses! a first in my lifetime, I think.) Heads will roll. Also, some underlying causing stemming from Vatican II will be noted. He's just fired across the bow of many a ship having nothing to do with Ireland. Certain people have already begun to be worried.

    ReplyDelete
  32. ben joyce3:00 PM

    Anonymous said:

    "This abuse was going on LONG before Vatican II I can assure you and even MORE SO - so please stop blaming Vatican II for all of this mess! Let's have an academic discussion about all of this rather than an ignorant rant!!!"

    I agree in that Vatican II was NOT the cause of this homosexual problem But it, as well as priestly pedophilia was the fruit of liberalism which became entrenched after WWII.

    Most of the priests who raped the boys were ordained before Vatican II. Liberalism (ie. "you can get away with it") caused the homo priest problem AND caused the Vatican II era problem. Both, I believe are manifestation of the 3rd Secret of Fatima- Apostasy from the top.

    What was the signal or sign for the devil, the communists, the freemasons and even the Jews to make their move? It was the excommunication and persecution of Fr. Leornard Feeney, the great vanguard of the Dogma of "Outside the Church there is no salvation".

    This dogma defined the purpose of the Church and the priesthood and post 1949 it was obvious that the Church was undermining it's own Dogma, which serves as it's foundation.

    And who wrote Protocol 122/49 the letter from Rome, to Archbishop Cushing which "condemned" Fr. Feeney's teaching. Bishop Harrington of Worcester told Fr. Feeney's crusade that it was "written on this side of the Atlantic". It is now commonly thought (see Engels book) that tragic letter, not found in the Acta and therefore not binding on your conscience, was written by then Mons. Wright, Cushings right hand man who then had it "rubber stamped" by his friend in Rome who ordained him, Cardinal Marchetti Salvagiani. And Wright, soon to become a Cardinal is in Randy Engels book as being a raging pedophile.

    You see, the huge problem the Catholic Church is experiencing in these end times, was hatched by the persecution of Church Dogma and it's worldly prelates allowed it.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Anonymous3:04 PM

    While I am sad about what has happened to the church in recent years: the destruction of the faith, the liturgy, and the mistreatment of children, I hope that we can remain charitable and merciful and pray for the dissenters and all those who have wronged the church. It is our duty to reconcile all sinners to the Christ and to heal the wounds that have been inflicted upon the church. There must be a way to correct those who have fallen in the church--while not throwing them away like they are trash. Perhaps a meditation on the hymn Attende Domine would be good for all of us.
    Domine! Salvum Fac Populum Tuum!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anonymous4:47 PM

    German archbishop admits abuse was covered up

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100321/germany_abuse_100321/20100321

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous6:07 PM

    I'm disgusted with hearing about "misinterpretations" of V2, "well intentioned" but "misguided" applications of it, defenses that criticisms of it are based on lack of understanding of the big picture, the panorama of Church history, etc. Such straddlings and equivocations are usually out of the mouthes of those who have spent their lives creating and promoting V2 and its various "spirits." Call it by its proper name: an all-around disaster for the Roman Catholic Church.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous6:53 PM

    Now if only the Pope would reinstate the automatic excommunication that USED TO BE in effect, before 1977, for those in the "canonically irregular situation" of remarriage after wrongful abandonment of a valid marriage!

    I am not holding my breath. Benedict seems only to act when he is forced to, one way or another.

    He fiddles as our marriages burn and have since this annulment machine became operative in the USA! It is a disgrace. When will the Pope act and stop, only, talking

    ReplyDelete
  37. "This abuse was going on LONG before Vatican II I can assure you and even MORE SO - so please stop blaming Vatican II for all of this mess! Let's have an academic discussion about all of this rather than an ignorant rant!!!"

    That is extremely unfair, and extremely ignorant. What kind of person would dare accuse others of ignorant rant when they obviously haven't taken the time to figure out the position we espouse? Do some homework, Anon.

    No traditional Catholic thinks that the root of the problem is VCII. Rather, VCII is the culmination of the problem. Of course there was priestly misconduct before VCII! We know our Church history. We know the name, Borgia.

    Of course there was priestly misconduct prior to VCII. The liberals and modernists didn't hatch from an egg during the first session of the Second Vatican Council. They had spent a little less than a century worming their way into the apple, and every traditional Catholic knows this. Only a very ignorant person would accuse traditional Catholics of thinking the problem of Modernism and Liberalism began at VCII.

    ReplyDelete
  38. -This abuse was going on LONG before Vatican II I can assure you and even MORE SO - so please stop blaming Vatican II for all of this mess! Let's have an academic discussion about all of this rather than an ignorant rant!!!-

    I see the extra exclamation marks and think: ignorant. rant.

    I'm not kidding!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  39. "Since when do the wronged do penance for another's sin?"

    Since our Lord Jesus Christ...


    cf. Isaias 53:5 -- "But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his bruises we are healed."

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous10:23 PM

    FranzJosf said...
    I see reason for hope. Although it is not fast enough for many of you, this letter has implications far beyond the sexual abuse in Ireland. Finally, we're going to get action. As the letter states, there will be numerous Apostolic Visitations (including Dioceses! a first in my lifetime, I think.) Heads will roll. Also, some underlying causing stemming from Vatican II will be noted. He's just fired across the bow of many a ship having nothing to do with Ireland. Certain people have already begun to be worried.


    Comment:

    There was an investigation into the Seattle archdiocese under Pope John Paul II during Archbishop Hunthausen's tenure.

    As far as I know, little has changed there. Seattle remains a typical U.S. diocese, which are generally cesspools of error.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous10:50 PM

    "Of course there was priestly misconduct prior to VCII." Yes, but certain reforms of VII facilitated the outbreak of unprecedented perversity in the 1970's.

    From http://northlandcatholic.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

    "Liturgical and Sexual Abuses: How could it have gone so wrong?

    If you don't ever read any other article, please follow the link and read this one. The history of the Church these past 40+ years has been catastrophic, on the altars, and in the rectories. And those situations are very closely related it turns out. How did that happen?

    G.C. Dilsaver wrote this article that was published last December in Homiletic and Pastoral Review. Using Thomistic philosophy and theology that is easy to understand, Dilsaver explains how the rigidity of the older form of a Mass full of reverence abruptly changed to a free form Mass where the focus was on the "presider's" chair, rather than the "Holy of Holies." From there, he explains, it was a very short step for a few priests to begin to explore their personal morality.

    ...(Excerpt from the Article)

    Before the replacement of the traditional Roman missal with that of the Novus Ordo Missae, candidates for the priesthood were taught to observe most meticulously the rubrics of the Mass. Any intentional addition or subtraction, that is any personal innovation, was potentially a mortal sin. The man was completely subsumed under the office of the priesthood of Christ. The many genuflections, Signs of the Cross, invocations of the Holy Trinity, physical and verbal acts of humility and atonement, detailed and precise rubrics, all were to insure a sense of self-abnegation and a corollary sense of the sacred and a reverence for God. . . .

    In comparison to the traditional Roman rite, the structure of the new Roman rite, even when celebrated in the most exacting way, diminishes reverential acts. The many genuflections, invocations of the Trinity, the physical and verbal acts of humility and atonement, the detailed and precise rubrics, have been either eliminated or greatly reduced. In sum, the vertical orientation of the Mass has been reduced to give more play to the horizontal, and thus the eliciting of humility, poverty of spirit, reverence, and fear of God has been, at least at face value, diminished. . . .

    This liturgical upheaval did a grave and often lethal violence to the Catholic’s, especially the priest’s, sense of the sacred; to their fear of God; to their reverence, to their humility; to their poverty of spirit; and to their chastity. . . .

    But there were also the others who stayed and eagerly acquiesced to or helped perpetrate the ever-waxing changes, including those liturgical and doctrinal innovations that went against the Council and the Vatican. These priests were at best men of compromise, at worst unprincipled and effeminate men whose love for the Faith was weak or non-existent. And it was from the ranks of these latter clerics that the most heinous liturgical and sexual abuses were perpetrated. Read the full article here: http://www.idpsy.com/article3.html

    ReplyDelete
  42. V. Walter11:43 PM

    Anyone with the smallest knowledge of Cold War history (unlike most of those who comment on this site, it would seem, especially those who sign themselves "anonymous") will be aware of the fact that one of the Communists' preferred methods against sincerely Catholic clergy was to accuse them of ... sexual abuse.

    How many Communist apparatchiks of old who currently infest our media and bureaucratic institutions (they now call themselves liberals and democrats, of course) are behind this latest witch-hunt?

    General Patton said: "Never let your enemy choose the battle site." Unless and until the Holy Father states clearly: "The scandal-mongering gutter press is not the Visible Head of the Church; I am", he will be in the position of an ecclesiastical Rodney Dangerfield: "I don't get no respect".

    A good start would be publicizing the writings of Pennsylvania's Phillip Jenkins (a Protestant historian, by the way), who demonstrated that the sexual abuse rate among Catholic clergy is lower than that among males in general.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous12:44 AM

    Anon, here again, point taken... I am so so hurt as an Irish traditional-minded catholic. I am also really really worried about the future of the Church and indeed for Pope Benedict. Apologies for my earlier comment if I appeared ignorant of the facts. Vatican II is an experiment that so badly failed. Why are people so blind to this! I could cry at this moment. All we see in Ireland is the Church crumbling... Pope Benedict is and always has been my hero - may God watch over him and keep him safe! He is the best thing to happen to the church in decades! JPII was pope for quarter of a century and presided over this mess all that time... In the short time since B16 became Pope, he has done more to address this evil than any of modern popes.

    Finally, this problem is so much greater than a few randy priests - it is and has to be the work of Satan. May God come to our aid! I fear the worst. I fear that in 10 years time or less, catholics in Ireland will be afraid to even say they are catholic... I fear that priests are no longer safe in our country with this witch-hunt that's ongoing... Two priest friends of mine are considering leaving the church and they are both only in their 30s... The church in Ireland is OVER! As a young catholic (traditionally minded) I fear the worst is yet to come...

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous4:16 AM

    Finally Vatican II is connected to that which it has maybe not started but certainly is connected by way of the loss of all discipline and loosening of everything. Subconsciously sexual morals included.We should for the most part forget Vat II and start concentrating on the solid foundations of Trent. It is not as tainted as Vat II. Trent is a solid rock for the Church and we need to hear more about it as we used to.Maybe in 400 years someone can pick out a few good things about Vat II but right now the damage and loss is too fresh and connected by living memories.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous5:10 AM

    So according to V. Walter this sprouting of scandals is a witch hunt, in spite of the same BXVI acknowledging the abuses. Now, since the rate of sexual abuse by clerics is lower than the general male population I suppose that we should feel relieved...Seems I have been a fool to worry about it.
    By the way, no mention in the Pope's letter or elsewhere what is going to be done with the abusers.
    Are they going to walk scot free?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Which paragraph of which VII document caused the increase in the priestly anal rape of children?

    Which paragraph of which VII document caused the increase in the priestly oral sodomy of young dudez?

    Are the same paragraphs behind both behaviors? Or do certain paragraphs drive the anal stuff while others drive the oral stuff? Which ones?

    And what explains how hundreds of thousands of people have read the same paragraphs without committing anal rape or oral sodomy?

    VII causes anal rape?

    Come on, guys. Why don't you blame Canada? It seems that everything's gone wrong now that Canada's come along.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous5:57 PM

    To James Dominic James: it is not us that connect VII to the abuses, but the Holy Father. Be awake.

    ReplyDelete
  48. V. Walter10:01 PM

    To Anonymous at 05:10:

    Find me one syllable I wrote wherein I said that no sex abuse ever occurred. You cannot, because no such syllable exists.

    I have merely pointed out that the current witch-hunt has nothing to do with actually occurring sex abuse and everything to do with the so-called ex-Communists who - from their positions in charge of Hollywood and our de facto pagan one-world government - want the gates of hell to prevail against the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

    When the New Class shows equal indignation toward pedophile Protestants, pedophile atheists, pedophile Jews, and pedophile Muslims (don't hold your breath waiting for coverage of those last two phenomena, in particular), then I might share Anon's attitude. Not before.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous11:19 PM

    To V. Walter:
    Strange as it may seem I will speak out in defense of the liberal press, be it as wicked as it is. If they serve as a means of revealing ACTUAL abuses, let them do it.
    By the expression witch hunt you seem to imply that it is a matter of persecution of innocent people, and are subtly trying to play down the gravity of the matter. Subsequently you follow up with a quotation of a protestant historian that indicates the lower than average abuses in the Catholic Church among males. It does not assuage, me, because even if it were only one case if would be scandalous enough for Holy Mother Church.
    The acid proof lays in the Lord's dictum: "The Truth shall set you free", and "There is nothing hidden that will not eventually be revealed". Both these precious
    slogans, mainly the first one, my favorite, apply now to the hierarchy of the Church.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Although horrible in itself, the scandal is not the abuse, per se. The relative numbers of priestly vs. protestant offenders is not the main issue.

    The scandal is that when alerted to the problem, Bishops have not taken definitive action; but instead, turned a blind eye, allowing the abuse to continue.

    It is the Bishops failure to stop the abuse that leads to lawsuits and massive loss of faith. These same Bishops, such as Cardinal Law and Weakland, then remain in good standing in the Church. True, the liberals are pursuing this like sharks to blood; but the heart-rending problem is lack of virtuous leadership in the Church.

    ReplyDelete

Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.

_______
NOTES

(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!