Rorate Caeli

Your tax dollars at work!

Dollars, pounds, euros...: if your country is listed among the hilariously named "Friends of Syria" (i.e. the Sunni axis, plus America, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy), then your tax money is indirectly supporting this - from AsiaNews:

The Custody of the Holy Land announced the death of Fr Franҫois Mourad (photo), a Syrian monk, and the assault of the Franciscan monastery of St Anthony of Padua in Ghassanieh, a predominantly Christian village in the district of Jisr al-Shughur in the province of Idlib, near the border with Turkey.

Fr Halim Noujaim, a Franciscan priest, said in a letter to the Custodian that Frs Hanna and Firas, both Franciscan religious from Kanaieh (Latakia), went to Al-Ghassaniyah to collect Fr Franҫois's body, confirming that the convent had been partially destroyed.

In his letter, Fr Halim issued an appeal to the West, underlying the dangers of helping armed anti-Assad rebels, who support religious extremists responsible for several attacks against the Christian minority.
See also: Vatican mourns victim of Syrian bloodshed.


  1. Pius XI taught us that where Catholics are in the majority, they have the right to the blessed Catholic state, although we renounced that at Vatican II (cf Lefebvre's They Have Uncrowned Him). We ought to say now that where Muslims are in the majority, they have the right to their erroneous Muslim state, as long as they show tolerance to Christianity (it is possible that Kelantam in Malaysia is following this model--I say 'possible' because it is difficult to get information, but several websites suggest that Buddhists there manage to evangelize peacefully on the days of Open House, whereas the Catholic dioceses there do exactly what they do here, i.e. nothing, in the name of ecumenism).

    If we would say this, that Muslims have the right to a religious state as an alternative to secularism, it would dissapate the new tension that has disrupted the hundreds of years of tolerance and peace in that region. It is we who have disrupted that peace by joining forces with secularism, at the Council. It is we who are promoting homosexuality, abortion, contraception, and predatory economic practices, it is they who, in their insistance on their religious principles, are defending a pro-life agenda. The Gallup poll four years ago revealed that it is secularism Islam hates, not Christianity, but we insist on promoting secularism there with all our hearts. Read the documents of the Middle East synod, if you can find them. Pure Conciliar garbage, and infuriating to Muslims, as well as to all honest Catholics. Jan from the White Lily Blog.

  2. In Malaysia (where Kelantan is ruled by the opposition fundamentalist Islamic party) evangelism is only allowed among non-Muslims irregardless of race. And what Jan said concerning 'us' promoting secularism generally holds- Catholics here, although we do a lot of charity work, are viewed as having 'Western' values- and not good values, I might add.

  3. @ New Catholic

    With "friends" such as these, who needs enemies? Another case of calling evil good...

    @ Unknown

    I couldn't disagree more with some of your statements...

    "We ought to say now that where Muslims are in the majority, they have the right to their erroneous Muslim state" ?????

    Mohemeddans have no right to such a state as they are completely devoid of the true faith, the Catholic faith. Catholics precisely derive such a right because of this same reason, that they are in possession of the only true faith. And if we are to look at the examples where a Mohemeddan state has been actually set up, the results are not good at all for the Christian minority: Saudi Arabia: ANY other religion other than Mohameddanism COMPLETELY (100%) forbidden; Iran: Christianity permitted to a BARE minimum, probably death sentences for those who preach the faith for unbelievers; Afghanistan: Not much to say here, a missionary would probably be assassinated before he had a chance to step off the plane; Turkey: en route to becoming a Mohameddan state, Byzantine orthodox church suffers harassment (see CBS 60 minutes segment with ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople); Egypt: also en route to becoming a Mohameddan state via the Muslim Brotherhood, the results have been sadly evident these last couple of years: churches burned to the ground, Christians harassed etc I think these arguments should suffice to show the folly of the argument.

    Secondly, I would strongly disagree with your statement that Mohameddans are pro-life. Most of them support self-immolation in order to kill innocent civilians (Israelis) as revenge for legitimate grievances that they may hold against them. You call that pro-life? Have you ever had contact with Mohameddans? I can tell you for a fact (because I have had contact with them) that if their imam tells them such gibberish such as that abortion is allowed up to 3 months because the soul allegedly has not entered into the body, they will happily follow along. So no, Mohameddans ARE NOT pro-life (even though individual members of the sect, guided by natural law may be).

  4. @ Mr. More,

    Your comment is full of 'probably' but let me offer an actual event reported by Austin Ruse through his First Things blog. Four years ago a UN sub-committee attempted to change the definition of reproductive rights to always include, in all UN documents referring to 'women's health,' abortion and contraception. There were no speakers against this change which would have automatically included abortion in every country through documents already signed, simply by changing the definition, save one. The Vatican's UN representative was present and did not speak against it, nor did any country associated with the Catholic Faith, and the measure was about to pass, when the Iranian delegation rose and walked out, preventing a vote. We must be forever grateful to them that at least some countries have been spared the scourge. And their resistance to abortion has been consistent. I do not know the votes of other muslim countries in the UN, but I do know that just as with "Christian" countries, some are actually islamic, and others are secular fronts with a whitewash of islamism.

    I am hopeful you know of other instances in our Church history where certain practices have been permitted to achieve a greater good, as when St. Augustine recommended the practice of prostitution be tolerated. This is like that. It is more devastating to the flock that we have lost entirely the idea of the Catholic state and join cause with secularism in attacking the principle, than that we make the statement that we support muslim resistance to the secular state even though they are heretics. Presently we Catholics, through the Vatican, are attacking the idea of the religious state even among Christian nations, as in Hungary's attempts to formally repudiate secularism and include Christianity (and no abortion, and no homosexual marriage or adoption) in their new constitution. They have received no support from Rome, and have at least twice been attacked on Vatican radio (Stephen Bos' program). Did you know that Liberians recently demonstrated in their state capital for a religious state? Theirs was not Catholic, theirs was loosely defined--would you deny the principle, for that? Or would you take a leaf from al queda and use it as a stepping stone to bring them to the true Faith, as we ought to do? The idea of the religious state is not quite dead, and the Catholic state is our only hope in digging our way out of the secular morass that is killing us. Islam is already a dead religion, they are, as you point out, killing themselves, and not just in suicide bombers but in the fight between Shias and Sunnis, and their demise would be much hastened if we would only awake from our long sleep and begin our own march back. But secularism is quite another matter. It truly is deadly. Perhaps those who gave up on the Restoration long ago may be forgiven for not knowing that, but God help those who don't see it now. Revive the principle of the legitimacy of the Catholic state! Begin to build a party!

    Or do you, sir, support religous freedom? That is, do you actually support secularism? Well, then, you would be a true son of the Council.

  5. Secular or not, Assad goverment always protected christian minority. So did Sadam Hussein in Iraq. Our western goverments utilize Alquaeda merceneries to wage war on Syria to get closer in encirclement of Russia. At this stage I'm not able to discern with certainty as whearether Putin is vilain or just a cleaver strategist, but unlike rotten west and apostate Vatican, Mother Russia finds greater mercy in the eyes of Our Divine Lord than the rest. It's an irony, but among the dozen or so muslims I met, some were really good people and one of them was rather virtuous and fine man. Pity he wasn't catholic.

  6. Let us be honest. Those now running what used to be known as Western Civilization, the Civilization Our Lord built through His Bride, the Catholic Church, are totally focused on its destruction. Every remnant of that which made us what we are, even in places like Iraq and Syria, must in their view be completely obliterated. They are on the brink of success. But we know where the victory lies.

    Sweet Jesus, through the intercession of Thy most Holy Mother, give us the strength to do whatever you ask of us, no matter how small it may seem, to save what we can, and preserve it for those who come after us!

  7. Dear unknown,

    "Your comment is full of 'probably'" ???

    I merely gave real life examples of persecution/harassment of Christians in Mohameddan states, or states in route to becoming Mohameddan.

    You praise Iran for allegedly being "pro-life" (perhaps you are unaware of their overt support for contraception - Iranian families are almost the same size as in the West), but on the other hand I very much doubt you would like to move there and practice the Catholic faith, if you are married, with your family? Perhaps then you would truly know the persecution that Christians must endure under such states.

    I agree with you that the lack of support Hungary is receiving from the Vatican in attempting to set up something akin to a Christian state is truly deplorable, but given further thought, not really surprising at all. I think the vast majority of rorate readers are in agreement that Rome to a large extent has apostatized from the faith hence their lack of support for Hungary's moves towards a more Christian state is hardly surprising, but yes I agree, very unfortunate indeed.

    As I can imagine you can gather from my comments, I am hardly in support of a secular state/religious freedom. The preconciliar popes were pretty clear in their statement that the best arrangement was for the state to fully embrace the Catholic faith and work alongside the Church for the common good and the salvation of souls.

  8. It is grotesque what is happening to both christians and muslims in Syria.
    Our goverments are publicly supporting an Al-Qaida psychopathic mercenary army in Syria, all to settle a score with Iran, they are destroying that country competely.

    I think we can end that stupid war on terror now.

  9. Yes, Iranians practice contraception--I have never said they were right about anything, in fact, I have said ten or twenty times that they are liberal, and doomed. But they ARE pro-life as we use the term politically, and which you denied. And of course I don't want to move there. I don't want to move anywhere! And I wouldn't want to see Sharia law here in place of secularism (in spite of being rather extremely tempted yesterday on the bus when a woman on her way to her pole dancing class stood with her sequined crotch in my face, while a muslim lady in her modest hijab sat quietly at my side). I said, and say again, that we ought not to oppose various groups in muslim-dominated populations for demanding sharia law there. We ought not to call them names and label them fundamentalist and radical. Instead we ought to be taking every opportunity to claim the right to religious states on our own, even if it means not opposing muslims FOR THAT REASON in countries where they are numerically dominant. If Rome would only say that, islam's new-found militant antagonism toward Christianity would diminish. Can we oppose them for being heretics? Yeah, duh. And for contracepting, sure, no prob. (Iran's birth rate is almost as bad as Singapore's and unlike us they have no consistent traditional teaching to help them. They're doomed.) The Vatican is not continually enraging islam for calling them heretics, no, indeed, they 'participate in salvation' just like all the other faiths including witch doctoring, in Rome's liberal madness. They attack them for rejecting the notion of the secular state--I direct you again to google the Middle Eastern Synod and read what you can find of the proceedings. It's the old imperialist game of, 'Let's you and him fight,' and we are taking up the crusade all right-- for secularism. But you have cheered me up, Mr. More--at least you see that Hungary is on the right track. I'm going to visit there in the fall and spend some money. I'm going to see how I can support them. Want to come? SSPX has the mass in Budapest altho it's not listed on the SSPX site (I have the info on my blog). And I'll keep bringing up, here on Rorate, how Rome has abandoned Hungary in their struggle. I have some fiery Polish neighbors who say that Poland is going to follow Hungary, that we must pray the rosary every day to that end, and I am, I am. Please, you too! If you can spare the time from beating the dead horse of islam for American imperialism. Janet

  10. Anonymous5:45 PM

    One cannot be pro-contraception and pro-life. You can be "anti-abortion" and pro-some contraception that doesn't terminate a life once it's conceived. But you're not pro-life.

  11. Iran is much less tolerant of christians than Syria, but more than Rome.

  12. Common Sense, you have made me laugh. Thanks.

  13. Thank you New Catholic for bringing attention to the West murdering Christians in Syria via mercenary "rebels". Please see the video of Our Lady's Church in Deir el-Zour--the devastation is heartbreaking. Executions and torture are part of being Christian now in Syria.


Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.


(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!