Rorate Caeli

Incredibile! Italian Diocese settles the problem:
All Traditional Masses forbidden



Monsignor Andrea Giusto is the Diocesan Administrator of the Diocese of Savona Noli (a suffragan of Genova, in the region of Liguria), while the see is vacant. He has settled the "problem" created by the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum in his diocese: all Masses are henceforth forbidden, as this communiqué in the official website of the Diocese makes clear (link / PDF)


Don Giusto: "Stop to the Masses of Saint Pius V"

Published Monday, November 26, 2007

Stop, until further rules, to Masses celebrated according to the rite of Saint Pius V. After recent episodes which took place in the oratory of Saint Michael, at Celle Ligure, the diocesan administrator, Monsignor Andrea Giusto, takes a stand: "In the absence of the bishop - he affirms - and not being still sufficiently clarified the conditions which would render licit the celebration according to the Missal of Saint Pius V, I firmly ask the priests of the diocese not to give permission to groups that ask for the celebration and to ensure that in no church in the diocesan territory Masses according to the pre-Conciliar rite are celebrated."

[Rorate note: the first paragraph is then repeated]

"The conditions for this kind of celebration - explains Savonese liturgist Andrea Grillo - are the presence of a stably constituted group and their active participation in the rite. This means that a solid liturgical formation and a knowledge of the Latin language are needed, and that these Masses cannot be organized 'by invitation', almost as if they were a show or a private event."

The decision of the diocesan administrator will have as its consequence that, until new rules which will depend on the future Bishop, Masses according to the ritual of Saint Pius V may not be celebrated in Celle or elsewhere [in the Diocese].

The transcript will remain here in case the original content suddenly "disappears". (Tip: reader)

___________________________________

So what were the "episodes" in Celle Ligure that moved the Diocesan Administrator to issue his (absolutely illegal) edict? A simple Traditional Mass - seemingly, with no scandal involved.

Il Giornale (regional section Liguria Cronaca) reported yesterday:

...at Celle Ligure, in the Parish of Saint Michael the Archangel, the first Mass in the ancient rite in the diocese of Savona took place. A celebration followed by 150-200 faithful, but criticized by the parish priest.

...[T]he Latin Mass [in Celle] was organized in the oratory neighboring the church of the Genoese "Una Voce" Association. The parish priest, don Piero Giacosa, was not opposed to the celebration, which he now criticizes harshly, however. "Why did I authorize it? I told the organizers that the matter did not interest me - he explains - I thought it was enough to dissuade them."

The Mass nonetheless took place, with the readings in Latin, the priest (an Italian-Brazilian from Verona) who turned his back to the assembly, and a homily in Italian. "I fear that Italy, the garden of the Catholic Church, may become the garden of pagans, of Muslims. - the celebrant said - Benedict XVI has liberalized this rite to make us remember that Mass is not a theater, but a place for prayer." Those who were present appreciated "the return to the past, to serious things". Gianno Romollotti says: "I saw people of a certain age, moved. There were also young men, new faces. It was not hard to follow the Mass, in the booklet there was an Italian translation. The criticisms? It is jealousy, we will repeat it on December 8."

If the Curia allows. "The stop is fair - don Giacosa replies - The Latin Mass was a concession by the Pope, it is supposed to unite, it cannot become a way to do proselytisms or to please the nostalgics, mostly [from] outside the Parish."

31 comments:

sxa said...

Sad.

I wonder what is supposed to have happened in Celle?

The comments on the diocese's web site are interesting. I'm surprised they have not been moderated.

Richard said...

These people are wrong about how the "invitation" to private Masses works, anyway. Summorum Pontificum states that people would ask to be admitted, not the other way around, so to try to ban Masses based off of saying that people shouldn't be invited to them is right, but if the folks are in effect following the MP and making the effort and asking to attend themselves, this does not exist as a reason to ban a Mass anymore given the Motu Propio's conditions.

"Almost as if [the Mass] were a show or a private event..." Boy, they know how to turn the tables. For years since Vatican II you have people going to certain scheduled Masses or to different parishes because they like Fr. X over Fr. Y. As if thay doesn't make Mass a show. Certain charismatic groups have their own "healing Masses" or "baptism by fire" Masses over which ordinaries go gah gah over - and the only people who attend are essentially the same folks in the group - and, as if that doesn't make Mass a private event. And, as if the idea of attracting people to Mass by having a certain brand of folk or popular music doesn't make Mass a show. What comes to mind for me is a "Jazz Mass" the cathedral of Monterey, CA during the same time the annual Monterey Jazz festival occurs. I doubt that sort of Mass would be banned by these same folks for its being made into a show.

Anonymous said...

ROTFL!

dcs said...

These people are wrong about how the "invitation" to private Masses works, anyway. Summorum Pontificum states that people would ask to be admitted, not the other way around, so to try to ban Masses based off of saying that people shouldn't be invited to them is right, but if the folks are in effect following the MP and making the effort and asking to attend themselves, this does not exist as a reason to ban a Mass anymore given the Motu Propio's conditions.

SP doesn't say anywhere that the faithful can't be invited to private Masses. The motu proprio gives freedom, it doesn't lay down restrictions.

Anonymous said...

These priests could write a nice letter to the faithful who desire the traditional mass.

They could explain that the current situation is such that they will have to celebrate the Mass of Pius V only in their own private chapels or some other location.

Furthermore they could explain that they are sorry to not have parish masses and that the faithful could request to attend the private masses.

Tom S. said...

This situation seem to me to be something of a test case. The particulars notwithstanding, how the Holy See reacts to this situation will tell a great deal about the future of Summorum Pontificum.

Anonymous said...

I think they are frightened, because they know deep down that no one of the faithful really wants the Novus Ordo.

alsaticus said...

How long the Holy See, the Pope especially, is going to endure these "schismatic" acts ?
Is Cardinal Re, prefect of the Congregation of Bishops, going to launch a disciplinary procedure with this outrageously ignorant administrator ?

We observe a growing rebellion challenging directly the pope. We can predict in the coming days one or more new provocations from the litnik mafia.
I remember Abp Lefebvre faced an apostolic visit in 1974 and was then summoned in Rome in 1975.
What about this administrator ?
What about the Dutch Dominicans ?

Louis E. said...

The most direct response from the Vatican would be to appoint the "Italian-Brazilian from Verona" who celebrated the complained-of TLM as the Apostolic Administrator in place of Monsignor Giusto.
I wouldn't bet on it happening,of course.
Cardinal Darmaatmadja's ban on the TLM in his archdiocese hasn't seen any exposure beyond the combox here that I've seen,did he attend the consistory?
I note that the five past bishops of Savona-Noli are all alive...one resigned and another retired from other sees,two still serving in other sees,and one recently named to the Curia.

Fr. Anthony Forte said...

To Richard:

A "private" Mass does not mean clandestine, but rather that it the act and on the initiative of the priest rather than that of the parish. As long as a priest of the Roman rite is authorized to say Mass he is authorized to celebrate according to the more ancient use. He may not do so at a parish Mass without the permission of the pastor (not bishop), but privately, that is on his own, he is free to choose either use. There is nothing in the MP to even suggest that he cannot invite or tell others about his intentions. Otherwise, how could the faithful attend of their own free will?

Anonymous said...

Arise, O Lord, and judge Thy Own cause. Remember Thy reproaches to those who are filled with foolishness all through the day. Listen to our prayers, for foxes have arisen seeking to destroy the vineyard whose winepress Thou alone have trod. When Thou were about to ascend to Thy Father, Thou didst commit Thy care, rule, and administration of the vineyard, an image of the triumphant Church, to Peter, as the head and your vicar and his successors. The wild boar from the forest seeks to destroy it and every wild beast feeds upon it.

Rise, Peter, and fulfill this pastoral office divinely entrusted to you as mentioned above. Give heed to the cause of the holy Roman Church, mother of all churches and teacher of the faith, whom you by the order of God, have consecrated by your blood. Against the Roman Church, you warned, lying teachers are rising, introducing ruinous sects, and drawing upon themselves speedy doom. Their tongues are fire, a restless evil, full of deadly poison. They have bitter zeal, contention in their hearts, and boast and lie against the truth.

We beseech you also, Paul, to arise. It was you that enlightened and illuminated the Church by your doctrine and by a martyrdom like Peter's. For now a new Porphyry rises who, as the old once wrongfully assailed the holy apostles, now assails the holy pontiffs, our predecessors.

Rebuking them, in violation of thy teaching, instead of imploring them, he is not ashamed to assail them, to tear at them, and when he despairs of his cause, to stoop to insults. He is like the heretics "whose last defense," as Jerome says, "is to start spewing out a serpent's venom with their tongue when they see that their causes are about to be condemned, and spring to insults when they see they are vanquished." For although you have said that there must be heresies to test the faithful, still they must be destroyed at their very birth by your intercession and help, so they do not grow or wax strong like your wolves. Finally, let the whole church of the saints and the rest of the Universal Church arise.

Let all this holy Church of God, I say, arise, and with the blessed apostles intercede with almighty God to purge the errors of His sheep, to banish all heresies from the lands of the faithful, and be pleased to maintain the peace and unity of His holy Church.

Long-Skirts said...

Don Guisto:

"I firmly ask the priests of the diocese not to give permission to groups that ask for the celebration and to make sure that in no church in the diocesan territory Masses according to the pre-Conciliar rite are celebrated."

AT
MASS
ALONE

November freeze,
Warmth melts the chill,
At Mass, alone,
On Calvary's hill.

Where from its heights,
Fierce, sleety, rains
Beat down upon
Stained-window, panes.

At the Mass of all times,
The Faith's never frozen,
"Many are called...
But few are chosen."

beng said...

Good. It's better when the enemies show themselves then go into guerilla mode. The later is how the modernists won battles. By not directly opposing but by discreetly and subtly eroding the faithful and the faith while keeping smily faces to others.

Anonymous said...

Please read blog a "faithful rebel" has interesting comments on Bishop Fellay

Anonymous said...

"the death certificate of the New Mass has now been signed." Read at "faithfulrebel.blogspot.com" Bishop Fellay speaks

Anonymous said...

This is also probably an important moment for the FSSPX to observe how Rome handles average priests that want the TLM exclusively.

We should pray that this situation is resolved peacefully.

Hebdomadary said...

For those who wonder whither the situation goeth, refresh your history of the English situation following Henry's schism. Mary re-instituted the church, then we all know what happened. Making the re-establishment of tradition stick is going to be next to impossible without the loyalty of the bishops, which we know we do not have in any numbers. Pray for the safety of Benedict. He is risking martyrdom to stand up for the truths of the faith. I think we all know this, but we can still the barbarous capacity of others who disagree, which history has shown time and time again, they have. The childish protestantizers of the Church will stop at nothing to have their way, don't doubt it, and the crunch may come sooner than we expect. Be prepared to state loudly which side of Catholicism you intend to come down on. Much is at stake. The catacombs beckon. Don't think so? Mexico in the 1920's. This is no joke.

Richard said...

Fr. Forte, et al.:

Thanks for the clarification. You're right.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Splendid news!

Let's hope others follow the example and put an end to the division Benedict XVI has caused by his ill-thought out actions.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, your sarcasm is absolutely vicious!

Anonymous said...

Being a bishop, I am the pope of my diocese. In fact, when I am in unison with my brother bishops, I am the pope of the world!!!

Anonymous said...

Let's hope others follow the example and put an end to the division Benedict XVI has caused by his ill-thought out actions

You're funny - truly humorous, good job - but stupid. Benedict picked exactly the correct theatre to expose the division that has existed for quite some time now. He really can't lose this battle. You see, his reasoning is "pastoral," his method is "liberalizing." So he is using precisely the language and logic of the enemy in order to bring about this change. All you have is a bunch of old liberal bishops looking like crotchety idiots, while most of the Catholic world moves swiftly along (99 percent not even noticing a change).

You'd probably notice this if you weren't so busy looking like a crotchety idiot. God bless!

Anonymous said...

"Being a bishop, I am the pope of my diocese. In fact, when I am in unison with my brother bishops, I am the pope of the world!!!"

This is pure heressy, because the authority and dignity of any other cleric is lower and under the authority and dignity of the Pope.

Besides the authority and dignity of a cleric derives from his communion with the Pope, and not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but this looks like a bunch of prideful posturing from both sides, posturing with the united effect of harming the faithful who just want to go to Mass.

Clearly the Italian bishop cannot do this. He has no authority to forbid all Traditional Masses. I hope he gets his come-uppens. At the same time, I wish the traditionalist priests could work out a temporary compromise until a permanent solution could be reached in collaboration with Ecclesia Dei. This kind of temporary compromise would certainly be in the best interests of the faithful.

Something tells me, though, that this incident has more to do with Italian machoism than with Traditional Catholicism.

Anonymous said...

According to Article no. 2 in the Motu Proprio "Summorum Pontificum", the action of the diocese is illicit and NO priest is in any way bound to obey it.

Nay, by the decision of pope (the ONLY supreme human authority over ALL(!!) Catholics) Benedict XVI, EVERY priest can FREELY celebrate PRIVATE Latin Masses (which LAITY CAN FREELY ATTEND TO - Article no. 4) and NO ONE CAN LICITLY PUT ANY RESTRICTION ON HIM IN THIS RESPECT UNTIL NEW LAW IS PROMULGATED BY POPE.

Thus, please proceed with Latin Masses in the Diocese of Savona Noli.

And you that disobey pope concerning "Summorum Pontificum" know that eternal fires of Hell await you if you don't repent for illicit disobedience to Christ The King's governor on Earth.

gallicman1 said...

We'll what did you expect. The fact is the Italians, Germans, French and anyone else do not have to give us the true Mass. As Novus Ordo Bishop of Rome stated:
"In conclusion, dear Brothers, I very much wish to stress that these new norms do not in any way lessen your own authority and responsibility, either for the liturgy or for the pastoral care of your faithful. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”)."

Anonymous said...

gallicman1,

The Bishop of Rome is no less a bishop than His predecessor St. Piux X or St. Pius V: get your theology right..

As for the quote you cite, you misinterpret the Holy Father: he is not saying that a bishop can ignore his interpretation of the law; quite the contrary; he is saying that the acceptance of his MP in no way signifies a loss of authority, because by being in communion with Peter a bishop' authority is always confirmed. Ergo, the correct interpretation of this quote would be rather: Allow what I allow, and do not fear that you are loosing your authority!

Anonymous said...

Read this: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius05/p5quopri.htm.
According to this clear-cut text of Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” no rite except the Tridentine Latin rite was to be used in The Catholic Church for celebration of The Mass with the exception of rites older than 200 years at the time of promulgation of this Apostolic Constitution or at another time later on.
And according to this clear-cut text of Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” the validity and full force of this Constitution was explicitly set to forever starting from the time of its promulgation.

The consequences of Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” are these:
- Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum” is illicit due to violation of the express command, ordinance, precept etc. of the Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” which concerns forever valid obligatory use of all kinds of the Tridentine Latin Mass if there is no the 200 years exception. Due to that, no priest nor faithful is bound to obey “Summorum Pontificum” in any way.
- All similar papal decisions of popes John Paul II and Paul VI concerning the Tridentine Latin Mass are also illicit and thus non-binding on anyone in any way due to the same reason mentioned in the previous point. Due to that, no priest nor faithful is bound to obey them in that respect in any way.
- Since Novus Ordo rite of The Mass didn't exist at the time of promulgation of “Quo Primum” nor was 200 years old at the time of its introduction, it necessarily follows that Novus Ordo rite of The Mass is the illegitimate liturgical child (though valid, as illegitimate children are) of pope Paul VI. Due to that fact Novus Ordo rite was illicitly introduced and illicitly imposed on all priests who celebrated Tridentine Latin Masses and on all faithful who participated in them. Due to that, no priest is in any way bound to celebrate Novus Ordo Mass but is, according to the text of “Quo Primum”, explicitly forbidden to do so. Due to that, no faithful is bound in any way to participate in a Novus Ordo Mass if there is available the Tridentine Latin Mass. If It is not available, he is bound to participate in the Novus Ordo Mass.
- Since gravity of the sin depends on the gravity of matter it is about, since the worship of God is one of the gravest matters of all and since the worship of God was forever ordered by “Quo Primum”, it necessarily follows that every priest who knows the content of “Quo Primum” or knows its summary or should know one of these things and still celebrates Novus Ordo Masses for any reason whatsoever willfully violates the explicit command, ordinance, precept etc. of the supreme authority of The Catholic Church established by God Himself. In case he perseveres in this misdeed, he can expect (as "Quo Primum" states) nothing else but the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.
- Due to the content of Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” all priests are forever obliged to celebrate all kinds of the Tridentine Latin Mass (if not made exempt by the mentioned 200 years rule) without any fear whatsoever and are forever forbidden to celebrate all kinds of Novus Ordo Mass. “Ye men (...), why stand you (...)?”, "My grace is sufficient (...)." (Acts 1:11, 2 Corinthians 12:9).

Anonymous said...

The alleged English translation of “Quo Primum” on http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius05/p5quopri.htm (mentioned in the previous post) looks like an intentional modification and alteration of meaning of the original text of “Quo Primum” (written in Latin): see on http://www.dailycatholic.org/quoprimu.htm in two parallel columns Latin and English text of what could be “Quo Primum”, especially the last two sentences coming before the final sentence which states the date of issuing of “Quo Primum”.

The last sentence of what looks like the gravely altered and modified text of “Quo Primum” is very strange and unusual in comparison with all the other sentences: it begins with “Should know” and looks very much like a slang (street talk). Such a slangy sentence is unlikely to have come from St. Pius V and doesn't exist in the same place on http://www.dailycatholic.org/quoprimu.htm.
Because of that it is almost certain that the mentioned text on www.papalencyclicals.net and on many other web-sites is not the text of “Quo Primum” but is a forgery.

The reason for the forgery is obvious: many don't want the Latin Mass of St. Pius V in The Catholic Church.

The gravity of intentional modification and alteration of “Quo Primum” can be seen from the first sentence before that one which begins with “Should”. Read the sentence on both links and check by yourself the alteration of meaning which was clearly intentionally made.

So, according to what looks like the original text of “Quo Primum” many priests who celebrate Novus Ordo Masses are in danger of the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.

So, it looks like all priests who celebrate Novus Ordo Masses and are able to do the following are obliged to find out whether that on http://www.dailycatholic.org/quoprimu.htm is the original (true) text of “Quo Primum” and if it is, are obliged to act according to it (celebrate the Latin Masses of St. Pius V exclusively) if they want to escape the worst for them.

So, it looks like all that was written in the previous post as the consequences of "Quo Primum" holds true.

Anonymous said...

No need for searching. The wrath is promised for alteration of “Quo Primum”. Alteration is lighter than contravention of “Quo Primum”. So, the wrath is more than certain for all priests who don't stop with Novus Ordo Masses.

Anonymous said...

You are wrong. Alteration is more grievous sin than contravention: it aims at making the way for sweeping of all Latin Masses of St. Pius V while contravention aims at sweeping of St. Pius V's Masses of a single priest.
Nevertheless, essentially, intention is the same in both cases: sweeping of the Masses. The same evil intention, the same punishment for it.
Thus your error is not a huge one: the wrath of God and of the Apostles is absolutely certain in both cases.