Rorate Caeli

Castrillón satisfied with SSPX answer
SSPX will give heed to the five points

From the blog of Andrea Tornielli (Vatican correspondent for Il Giornale):

I have learned from secure sources that, contrary to what has appeared in certain articles, the response of the Fraternity [of Saint Pius X - FSSPX/SSPX] to the letter of Cardinal Castrillón has not in fact been negative. The Cardinal is satisfied with it, has responded to Fellay, and has promptly delivered the letter of the Fraternity to Benedict XVI. After the deadline of the end of June, the Lefebvrists [sic] ask for time but - it seems - they will aim to respect the five points.

46 comments:

Pascendi said...

Thanks be to God. Well done Cardinal Castrillon and Bishop Fellay.

Paul Haley said...

This news is so different from the bashing of the FSSPX that has occurred and is still occurring on many internet forums. It seems Cardinal Hoyos and Pope Benedict XVI have a much different view of things from their perspective and Thank God for that. Those of us who have no particular ties to the FSSPX and pray hard for the reconciliation, will, it seems, be rewarded in the end.

Come, Holy Spriit into the hearts of the faithful and enkindle in them the fire of Divine Love. Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created and Thou shall renew the face of the earth. Holy Apostles Peter and Paul intercede for us and ask Our Lord to heal the wounds in His Mystical Body, Amen

Brian Kopp said...

Hallelujah!!!

Anonymous said...

This would really be incredible news. Keep up the prayers!

Anonymous said...

We can all be greatful to Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Let us thank Almighty God for his faithful servant Marcel Lefebvre.May the Holy Ghost continue to guide Bishop Fellay and the Society of St. Pius X in doing what is right and good for Holy Mother the Church.

Anonymous said...

A.M.D.G.

Anonymous said...

This report seems inconsonant somewhat; because Msgr. Fellay said he did not pledge adhesion to the 5 points, but that he understood they were offered in good faith. Here the Italian Reporter inaccurately recharacterizes the Bishop, as if he accepted the 5 points.

I think he just does not have the finess of mind to understand the distinctions involved.

Anonymous said...

I just reread my comment and I forgot to also mention that we have to thank Almighty God for our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI. May the Lord continue to bless him with an abundance of health and many years with us.We have to thank him also for giving us back the ability to Offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the way all of the saints have done in the past.Ad Multos Annos

Anonymous said...

Deo gratias indeed. It looked as though neo-con bloggers, journalists and clergy were succeeding in spreading the myth the SSPX were divided and downplaying their sincerity: of which they are not in a position to judge. It is alarming that such careless persons have been more active than the liberals to scupper the efforts of Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos and the SSPX.

My advice to the neo-cons who just can't wait to have a go again at the SSPX bishops (Williamson in particular has been treated very badly) if you want to bait a bishop I'm sure, unless you live in St Louis, your local ordinary has a litany of errors to lament.

Anonymous said...

We should also thank God for our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI. May the Lord continue to bless him and strenghten him. He has done wonders for the Church and the and we should be grateful to him. Ad Multos Annos.

Joe B said...

So what is Rome's responsibility now? They got their respect, so now what?

They should lift the excommunication decree by their own insulting deadline. Tick, tick, tick ...

Pertinacious Papist said...

What good news!

Cerimoniere said...

Ecce nunc tempus acceptabile; ecce nunc dies salutis.

It really does seem as though this may be the case. There is clearly a broader movement towards reconciliation in this pontificate, as Catholics wounded by the abuses and confusion of the past forty years recognize the voice and leadership of the Holy Father.

In this connection, it would be good to hear more of the new community established by the CMRI nuns who have acknowledged the Pope. If even some sedeprivationists are returning to communion, please God lesser differences can be overcome.

Anonymous said...

Trust the Almighty!
Ask and you shall receive!
Praise be to Your Most High!

Let us continue to pray and offer sacrifices, penances. We have much work ahead to accomplish, and proclaim Jesus Christ and His Gospel to a world bent on building their own world "edifice" by silencing the Good News of Jesus Christ!
Remember His warning: The whole world will hate you because of Me.
What will they do to the dry wood, if they did this to the green One?"
But our comfort remains in Him and in Our Lady: My Immaculate Heart shall triumph in the end!
Let us rejoice, but not forget our task is just beginning.
Let us pray! Rejoice and trust in our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ!
Pope Benedict our "olive branch!"

Anonymous said...

This is auspicious news, and I am hopeful, but it really is strange indeed how this has coem to us through the media (as it still is). Either Mons. Fellay accepted the 5 points and added his own requests, but (as usual) made negative remarks afterward that were exaggerated (by him or by others), or Mons. Fellay did not accept the 5 points and this current article is false. And honestly, given the penchant for hyperbole manifested by many prominent SSPX clergy and given the penchant for vagueness and a sort of cheerful-unproductivity by many in the Vatican, I believe we shall never know what was really said. All we will know is the results, and I hope they are positive.

Angelo said...

"I have learned from sources . . ."

New Catholic:

It would be wise if your sources were to avoid the perjorative neoterism "Lefebrists".
This would go a long way in establishing a respectful climate.

Thank you!

Anonymous said...

'We can all be greatful to Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Let us thank Almighty God for his faithful servant Marcel Lefebvre.May the Holy Ghost continue to guide Bishop Fellay and the Society of St. Pius X in doing what is right and good for Holy Mother the Church.
"


THE ABOVE COMMENT IS WHAT ALL FAITHUFL TRADITIONALIST CATHOLIC SHOULD THINK/SAY ABOUT THE SSPX....not the bashing and insults hurled at them by a bunch of rabid neo-conservative Catholic who goose-step marched in formation to everything/anything the Vatican said and did for 40 years.
I swear, these people have no minds...and can not see the tremendous errors of the last 40 years...but instead trash the SSPX.
I'd bet that if the Pope ever decided to:
1- allow for married priests or optional celibacy
2- allow for women priests
3- allow for women "deaconesses"
4- decide that we're all going to be in union with Episcopalians, Methodists and Lutherans and adopt alot of their beliefs in the name of ecumenism
5- supress the idea of "transsubstantiation" at Mass in deference to Protestant sensibilities etc.
6-allow for gay priests, and gay unions.
(GOD FORBID ANY OF THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN ACTUALLY), but the neo-conservatives would all bow, applaude, and chant in one voice " Yes Holy Father, whatever you say Holy Father, We're with you Holy Father...." no matter how wrong it would be.
And just like the do to the SSPX, they'd bash anyone who spoke up against the evil of it all.

Anonymous said...

My knees are worn out in prayers. I have callouses on them. Where is the papal withdrawal of the 1988 declarations of excommunication? Keep praying!

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

On the reports about Bishop Fellay and the five points: Bishop Fellay himself said that he did not reject or refuse the points themselves but did not sign them because he was unsure of their implications; he found them to be too vague. So he does adhere to their spirit and their general content.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

This mention of Tornieli that the S.S.P.X will "respect the five points" is claptrap invented by him. Yes, Fellay has said that he does not refuse the general content or spirit of the five points. He has not signed them because he is unsure of what they entail. What he has agreed to more specifically is what he has written in his signed letter to the Cardinal, and we don't know the entire content of that, only what DICI, the S.S.P.X news agency, has told us.

I think that it is generally positive, contrary to what all these stupid journalists have reported for the past week. But we need to be precise about what has and has not been agreed to. Really, the Society has not conceded anything. It has always agreed with the general content and spirit of the five points.

The question now is whether or not the Pope will grant the request to lift the 1988 declarations. The ball is now in his court, since Bishop Fellay has shown his good will. Tick, tick, tick, tick: I agree with the blogger here who wrote that!

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Let's wait to see the actual text of the letter (if it's published).

Sounds like typical "media spin" to me right now.

Anonymous said...

Let's wait to see the actual text of the letters.

These initial reports seem to have too much "media spin" me thinks.

Gerard said...

Great! So does this mean the Holy Father is actually taking up the cause of tradition in the Church and going to condemn with full apostolic authority the false interpretations of Vatican II?

Any agreement that does not include the Pope taking up the cause of tradition and condemning liberalism in the Church is worthless.

I'll thank the Pope for his generosity when he hammers a few liberal bishops and removes them from their sees, condemns their errors and replaces them with traditional bishops.

D said...

I am sorry, but if anyone thinks there is to be a real reconciliation, they are sadly mistaken. We belong to the SSPX parishes for years, and get their newsletters, and thanks be to God, the SSPX leadership clearly sees that Rome is still rotten at the core.
One need only look at the Pope's recent trip to America - ecumenical, Jewish synagogues, etc. Yes, they are grateful for the Motu Proprio, of course. But, will they be pressured into an agreement, when they know very well that Rome still adheres to all the errors of Vatican II? THIS FIGHT IS ESSENTIALLY ABOUT BAD DOCTRINE, not just the liturgy and excommunications.
Rome has not made one single movement to admit that the VatII doctrine has serious errors. And the SSPX sees this.

Syriacus said...

Update on the Transalpine Redemptorists

by Gregor Kollmorgen

The German edition of Radio Vatican today has the following news item from KNA, the German Catholic News Agency (NLM translation):

The Traditionalist Order of the “Transalpine Redemptorists” Seeks Reconciliation with the Pope

So far, three priests of the schismatic association had turned to Rome and, after several talks, had obtained a lifting of their ecclesiastical censures, the competent Vatican Commission “Ecclesia Dei” confirmed upon enquiry on Wednesday. Thereby, however, the Community as such had not returned. This were merely a “first step” of a longer process of negotiations, it was said in the Vatican. The aim of the Order were a papal recognition of the institution to which belong about 20 members.

Posted by Gregor Kollmorgen on 2.7.08 – (NLM)

http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/07/update-on-transalpine-redemptorists.html

tradcath89 said...

DEO GRATIAS! I am so happy that the SSPX are approaching reconciliation with Rome. Once the SSPX are no longer in their irregular situation, they will be able to so much good for the Church. I hope it happens very soon, but I think the SSPX must show more humility for that to happen. The stupid reporting in so many secular media outlets doesn't help the cause though.

joe b - Rome isn't some equal party to the SSPX. Let's not forget who is in charge here.

anonymous - As for bishop Williamson, it's not just "neo-cons" who find problems with him...there are plenty of traditional Catholics who find problems with his Holocaust denying and other outrageous statements. I don't think most of the SSPX folk share those sentiments. I agree with you that he's no more troublesome (to say the least) than the modernist bishops.

Melchior Cano said...

angelo said...
"I have learned from sources . . ."

New Catholic:

It would be wise if your sources were to avoid the perjorative neoterism "Lefebrists".
This would go a long way in establishing a respectful climate."

Angelo,

If you are unable to read or understand the posting of news stories then perhaps this whole debate is a bit much for you. New Catholic did not make the statement, thus they are not his sources. That comment comes from Andrea Tornielli, and New Catholic was kind enough to post that here.

If St. Thomas was right that intelligence is the ability to make distinctions, I'm not sure what to make of the IQ level of many commenters on this blog.

Charles said...

The SSPX does not need 'more humility.' They are being used by God as the means to preserve the Faith through the current crisis. The Holy Father needs to restore the Catholic Faith to all of its fullness and ditch this phenomenological nonsense forever, burying it beneath severe condemnations. Let us pray that, through the bravery of such heroes as the bishops and priests of the SSPX, we will one day witness such a glorious day.

Anonymous said...

God be glorified!

Anonymous said...

We all still need to pray very much.

It is one thing to begin talking, it is another thing to begin listening.

What all of us in the Church need, whether we want it or not, is a definitive clarification of the non-binding status of Vatican II's decrees.

That alone will begin to free the entire Church from the errors of neo-modernism.

Then an apology, not only to Traditionalists, but to all Catholics, for having forced the aggiornomento, founded upon non binding principles, upon us all, to the destruction of so many souls, communities, parishes, religious orders, clergy, families, marriages etc..

That will take great humility on the part of all who were involved in this, the greatest crime of the hierarchy in the last 400 years.

Then, alone, will a "reconciliation" with the SSPX be possible, because only then will true reform be able to begin.

Br. Alexis Bugnolo

Anonymous said...

Good news indeed.

As today is the feast of Pope St. Leo II I looked at the info. in the Cath. Enc. oabout him.

" During this council (the 6th Oec. Council at Constantinople), Pope Honorius I was anathematised for his views in the Monothelite controversy as a favourer of heresy.[4] However, Leo took great pains to make it clear that in condemning Honorius, he did so not because Honorius taught heresy, but because he was not active enough in opposing it. In accordance with the papal mandate, a synod was held at Toledo (684) in which the Council of Constantinople was accepted.[4]"

In caritate Xp.,

Bryan Dunne
Harrow UK.

Anonymous said...

02 July 2008 in Rome

http://www.fotografiafelici.com/index.php?page=scripts/inserimento&num_file=31&cerimonia=8184%2002%20Auletta%20della%20Aula%20Paolo%20VI&data=2008-07-03%2011:49:00&cod=767&language=ITA#foto

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

This is not the time for one side to tell the other: "YOU kneel down and apologize to me, etc. etc.'

This is the time for general reconciliation, for healing, for faithful and orthodox Catholics to seek to understand each other once more after forty years of tragic division.

The fact is that ALL sides in this debate have had adherents who committed sins of thought, word and deed as they defended what they believed in. Traditionalists have been persecuted unjustly, it is true, but the Pope too has had much to suffer from those who called themselves the defenders of tradition. Neither side in this debate has had the monopoly on bitter invective.

This is the time for penance and atonement, not for chest-beating and people saying "I told you so!" all around.

As long as there are people, on either side of the divide, who speak as if they alone deserve to receive apologies and that they alone have been wronged, the hoped-for reconciliation in the heart of the Church will never be completed.

Angelo said...

Melchior Cano,

You are absolutely correct in your assessment. My bad.

Best regards

LeonG said...

There is the now customary hyperreal postmodernist labelling of "lefevrist" which phenomenon of course exists only in the minds of those with a certain antipathy for authentic traditional Roman Catholicism. The Archbishop was a Roman Catholic to the core of his very soul and he defended The Faith with immense courage, dignity and understanding. Catholicism should never make compromises with modernism otherwise the disastrous consequences are that which we can objectively observe in the contemporary post-conciliar church. Our Blessed Lady at Atika has already admonished the hierarchy and lay of the same church that they have made too many compromises and that there is deep consequential division among the leadership. Such warnings are ignored at our peril.

LeonG said...

"This is the time for general reconciliation, for healing, for faithful and orthodox Catholics to seek to understand each other once more after forty years of tragic division."

There is no place in this process for pseudo Freudian-Jungian psychodynamics. This belongs in the rubbish bin of church history alongside all the other un-Catholic modernistic machinations. It is this genre of thinking which has infected the modern seminary and monastery and emptied them out.

Traditional Catholics who were the norm in the early 1960s did not ask the minority liberal modernist left to impose and bully un-catholic novelties on The Church and then emotionally blackmail us with threats of excommunication, schism and accusations of loss of faith in order to bulldoze through their deceitful programme of protestantisation and religious indifferentism. Their liturgy is in ruins and their doctrine is doublespeak.

It is they who need to reconcile with The Church and it is they who need to apologise. It is they who have provoked the divisions (NeoCats, charismatic, opus dei, Focolare, NO, etc., etc.) - look at the mess they have made. That is where the division resides. This is not the work of tradition neither is there any semblance of continuity in it.

PHILOTHEA said...

Do we really expect Rome to become fully traditional and leap into a series of overdue appologies and retract Vatican II?

Let everyone keep there dignity and just get on with it.

Time will judge the events. Who would of thought so much could have happened in such a short time.

JP2 had over a quarter of a century to make a difference, this Popes moving at light speed in comparison.

St. Columba said...

It's interesting to watch as so many traditional Catholics, such as those who operate this blog, believe that there is no greater issue to deal with, in the cause for tradition, than the reconciliation of the SSPX to Rome. This blog obsessively combs the world to find the latest 'breaking' news on this issue. But, why? Why is it that they will not address, ever, the greater issues at stake? Quite likely, those issues do not matter to them. It is only 'reconciliation' that really matters, and nothing else. Reality itself is not important.
At least the SSPX-bashing on this blog is now kept at a dull roar, which is an improvement.

The Holy Father needs, so very much, our prayers and penance. He cannot make a return to tradition without a great sacrifice on our parts, and it will need to be far greater than what we have already done.

Though the Holy Father upholds, without reservation, the modernist errors (and heresy) of his predecessors since Vll, he alone is not responsible for the modernist errors of today; these errors began to take root long ago. The Holy Father would not survive a return to tradition...the world and the Conciliar Church would not allow him to survive. Therefore, I implore all those who sincerely want to see a return of the values and doctrines of the universal Church before Vll to take upon themselves some of the burden of suffering that the Holy Father would have to take on in order to facilitate the objective.

Any fool with a computer can report on the 'reconciliation' situation. But it takes a true love and devotion to our Lord and His Holy Church to make the sacrifice that is so needed, and believe me, it won't be fun.

Anonymous said...

When will Pope Benedict order the communion rails back into the churches?!...

Robert said...

I suppose that with Roman vacations underway, this will be the stopping point for several weeks to come. Well, it is better then what could have happened, at least.

Anonymous said...

"Any fool with a computer can report on the 'reconciliation' situation. But it takes a true love and devotion to our Lord and His Holy Church to make the sacrifice that is so needed, and believe me, it won't be fun."

What an amazing statement. You consider that NC is the former, and you yourself to be one of those with "true love", right?

Being a blog master presents many an opportunity to offer up insults.


M.A.

Marilena said...

let me state this, unless there is an official announcement from rome, and confirmation of that announcement by bishop fellay, and posted on their sspx websites, do not get your hopes up. wait for the official announcement from the holy see, and confirmation by the bishop. everyone jumps to conclusions and always assumes that today will be the day. believe it when it ACTUALLY happens and not before! it will happen when God wills it to happen and not before!

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

Leong:

Your own insulting and disrespectful response to me says more about you than it does about me.

By their fruits thou shalt know them.

Frankly, I never cease to be amazed at the self-proclaimed Trads who keep coming here basically to malign and insult everyone else, including the blog owner (NC) and the contributors (myself included).

Anonymous said...

"When will Pope Benedict order the communion rails back into the churches?!..."

Hopefully never. He'll order the construction of rood screens instead.

str1977@googlemail.com said...

"We belong to the SSPX parishes for years ... the SSPX leadership clearly sees that Rome is still rotten at the core. ... that Rome still adheres to all the errors of Vatican II? THIS FIGHT IS ESSENTIALLY ABOUT BAD DOCTRINE, not just the liturgy and excommunications.
Rome has not made one single movement to admit that the VatII doctrine has serious errors. And the SSPX sees this."

All hopes Fellay's response might raise, is immediately bashed by such vitriolic, hateful and unCatholic comments. The Pope is not free to disavow an Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church.

He has already spoken out against misinterpretations (the socalled Spirit of the Council) and he will continue to do so in word and deed.

But if you are asking him to break with the Council to follow you, you are no better than Luther telling the Church to forsake Tradition and obey him.

Jordanes said...

Someone said: I'd bet that if the Pope ever decided to:
1- allow for married priests or optional celibacy
2- allow for women priests
3- allow for women "deaconesses"
4- decide that we're all going to be in union with Episcopalians, Methodists and Lutherans and adopt alot of their beliefs in the name of ecumenism
5- supress the idea of "transsubstantiation" at Mass in deference to Protestant sensibilities etc.
6-allow for gay priests, and gay unions.
(GOD FORBID ANY OF THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN ACTUALLY), but the neo-conservatives would all bow, applaude, and chant in one voice " Yes Holy Father, whatever you say Holy Father, We're with you Holy Father...." no matter how wrong it would be.


On the contrary, if the Holy Father ever formally taught even one of Nos. 2-6 (the Catholic Church has always allowed for married priests and optional celibacy, so No. 1 would not be a false doctrine -- imprudent and unpastoral, to say the least, but not a defection from the faith), then this Catholic would know Catholicism was a sham, and he'd have to abandon the Christian religion altogether. Fallible Catholicism, Pope-less Catholicism, is not Catholicism.