Rorate Caeli

My kingdom is not of this world


Dixit Pilatus ad Iesum: "Tu es rex Iudæorum?" Respondit Iesus: "A temetipso hoc dicis, an alii dixerunt tibi de me?" Respondit Pilatus: "Numquid ego Iudæus sum? Gens tua et pontifices tradiderunt te mihi: quid fecisti?" Respondit Iesus: "Regnum meum non est de hoc mundo. Si ex hoc mundo esset regnum meum, ministri mei utique decertarent ut non traderer Iudæis: nunc autem regnum meum non est hinc."
(From the Gospel for the Feast of Our Lord Jesus Christ the King, John xviii, 33-36: " Pilate said to Jesus: Art Thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered: Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or have others told it thee of Me? Pilate answered: Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered Thee up to me: what hast Thou done? Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: by now my Kingdom is not from hence.")

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Hear then, ye Jews and Gentiles! Hear, O circumcision! Hear, O uncircumcision! Hear, all ye kingdoms of the earth: I interfere not with your government in this world, "My kingdom is not of this world."

Cherish ye not the utterly vain terror that threw Herod the Elder into consternation when the birth of Christ was announced, and led him to the murder of so many infants in the hope of including Christ in the fatal number, made more cruel by his fear than by his anger: "My kingdom," He said, "is not of this world."

What would you more? Come to the kingdom that is not of this world! Come, believing, and fall not into the madness of anger through fear!

He says, indeed, prophetically, of God the Father, "Yet have I been appointed king by Him upon His holy hill of Zion;" but that hill of Zion is not of this world. For what is His kingdom, save those who believe in Him, to whom He says, "Ye are not of the world, even as I am not of the world"? And yet He wished them to be in the world: on that very account saying of them to the Father, "I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil." Hence also He says not here, "My kingdom is not" in this world; but, "is not of this world." And when He proved this by saying, "If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews," He saith not, "But now is my kingdom not" here, but, "is not from hence."

For His kingdom is here until the end of the world [hic est enim regnum eius usque in finem sæculi...], having tares intermingled therewith until the harvest; for the harvest is the end of the world, when the reapers, that is to say, the angels, shall come and gather out of His kingdom everything that offendeth; which certainly would not be done, were it not that His kingdom is here! [...quod utique non fieret, si regnum eius non esset hic.]

But still it is not from hence; for it only sojourns as a stranger in the world: because He says to His kingdom, "Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world." They were therefore of the world, so long as they were not His kingdom, but belonged to the prince of this world.

Of the world therefore are all mankind, created indeed by the true God, but generated from Adam as a vitiated and condemned stock; and there are made into a kingdom no longer of the world, all from thence that have been regenerated in Christ. For so did God rescue us from the power of darkness, and translate us into the kingdom of the Son of His love: and of this kingdom it is that He saith, "My kingdom is not of this world;" or, "My kingdom is not from hence."
Saint Augustine
In Evangelium Ioannis - Tractatus CXV


____________________________
  • Recess continues for a few days.
  • News: Proposition 17 of the Synod of Bishops: "It is wished that the ministry of the lectorate be opened also to women, so that their role of announcers of the Word may also be recognized in the Christian Community." (Original text in Italian.)
  • Other relevant news may be posted at any moment.

26 comments:

fra A.R. said...

That proposition will promote a large debate (I hope not too fire in it): on the theological issue of the "lay ministries" versus the traditional position of the "minor orders".
Something to clarify better than motu proprio Ministeria Quaedam did.

Jordanes said...

Another really bad idea. It's already dubious to allow women to act as if they were lectors even though they cannot be installed as acolytes. Now we have a proposal that women be installed as acolytes, which would be a step towards ordination of women, something that can never happen. There is nothing in the Church's experience, nothing in her tradition and in her faith, that can justify such a move. Pray that proposition is rejected by the Pope.

LaPraz@aol.com said...

"It is wished that the ministry of lectorate be opened also to women,...their role of announcers of the Word..."

...this has already been going on for years at least in the States I have lived in, Wisconsin, Illinois and Missouri.

A BRIT
IN
BANGLADESH

And the Word was made Flesh,
But does that really mesh,
With authentic faith and dialogue today?

‘Cause at Eucharistic meal,
Which is no big, bloody, deal,
We smile and our mistakes are washed away.

We gather round the table,
To hear a gospel fable
From Father Bob, the celebrant, divine.

Never kneels, he always stands
But he runs to shake your hands,
Then he sits a lot, perhaps a weakened spine.

The ladies and the girls,
Their ministry unfurls,
A Eucharistic minister’s sensation.

With servers and the cantor,
They have a playful banter,
Then bread and wine, it’s time for celebration.

As the people, we all sing
But the bells, they never ring,
For they took away the Words that made His Flesh…

For a Corpus? That’s too rough,
There’s no need for violent stuff,
That’s as welcomed as a Brit in Bangladesh!

Anonymous said...

A. They, with exceptions, have no regard for tradition.

B. They are not concerned with real issues.

Jordanes said...

this has already been going on for years at least in the States I have lived in, Wisconsin, Illinois and Missouri.

Well, there have been women readers of Scripture for quite some time, but they are only temporarily delegated, not permanently installed as lectrices -- because there is no such thing as a lectrice. The Synod of Bishops is asking that the Church change her canon law to allow women to be formally and permanently installed as lectrices. At this time, and for the Church's entire history, "lector" is a ministry that only men can be given (because only instituted acolytes can be lectors, and only men can be instituted acolytes), and prior to Vatican II it was one of the minor orders that Paul VI unwisely and unnecessarily suppressed. Allowing women to read Scripture in the liturgy is already a departure from the Church's tradition, and disregards St. Paul's law that women are to be silent in the Churches and not be allowed to usurp men's liturgical authority and role. Allowing women to become lectrices is an even further departure from the Church's tradition. The Church needs to be restoring the integrity of her liturgical tradition, not moving even further from it.

This proposition, if approved by the Pope, would inevitably be seen as a step towards women's ordination. (I said above that the proposal is that women be installed as acolytes, but to be accurate it could also be a call that the ministry of lector be redefined so that one no longer need be an acolyte to be a lector.) It almost seems like a good number of bishops, seeing the direction the Pope is taking the Church's liturgy, are seeking to solidify one of the many aspects of the derailed liturgical reform that Catholics have had to endure.

Luiz Carlos M. Filho said...

Deus proteja a Santa Madre Igreja destes ataques e ciladas que seus inimigos lhe estão armando. Rezemos!

[God protect the Holy Mother Church against these attacks her enemies are preparing. Let us pray!]

Hebdomadary said...

Gentlefolk, we are heading towards a watershed pruning of at-large Catholic church regarding Women's Ordination. This is the thin end of the wedge and we all know it, even certain Bishops. Get ready to make a choice. It may NOT happen in our lifetimes, or it may. But look what the relativist agenda of is accomoplishing - or has accomplished - in the political sphere, and watch as they spring the trap of "Oh, but it's just for the poor oppressed would be lectrices of the world" from within the bishopric. Be warned, and be prepared to stand for the true Church.

Anonymous said...

"Announcers of the word"... hilarious!
Where do they come up with this stuff!

Ma Tucker said...

I hope the Pope boots this out. I see no reason for this except to appease the non-feminine power mongers masquerading as the female voice of the Church. This thing will not be appeased until it jackboots the Church into its own perverse image. Most of the poor misguided souls will be dead in 20 years anyway.

Commentator said...

All eyes on the post-synodal exhortation. Don't let us down, Holy Father! Either ignore this wretched proposal, or explain why it won't be happening!

Anonymous said...

If the Pope allows for this, this is a step towards eventual ordination of women.

If this is allowed,it would be a complete departure from Catholic teaching and tradition.
If it happens, let's hope for another courageous bishop to step forwards and attempt to save the Church a la Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
There already is a small but flourishing group of hard-line sede-vacantist Catholics in Italy, France, Germany , Mexico, and Brazil (all 1 group), which has their own "Pope" and cardinals and preserves the Tridentine Latin Mass.
Though small, there are small monasteries of traditionalist Benedictines (Italy, Brazil), Franciscans (France, Italy), Dominicans (Italy, Mexico, Germany), Servites (Italy), Carmelites (Mexico, Italy, France) and even Jesuits (Italy, Mexico) loyal to this "Pope" and his "Vatican" (located in Mexico).
All told, they have about 225 secular priests, and about 400 other monastic groups in 6-7 countries (not to mention restored convents of Orders of nuns totalling several hundred), and about 125,000-300,000 faithful.
A small pocket of Catholics to be sure, and not the right way to go....also to be sure.
But if the Vicar of Christ were to depart from Catholic tradition so gravely as to allow for women Lectors (a rank of clergy which may be seen as a step towards women priests), then what is to stop the notion of "women deacons"?
How can anyone blame small pockets of Catholics reacting to this departure from the Faith, and trying best as they can...even if in schism and sede-vacantist..to preserve the treasures of the Catholic Faith?

Anonymous said...

From Altared boys to lectorettes to deaconettes to priestesses to bishopettes to cardinalesses and popettes: it's a slippery slope by baby steps.

P.K.T.P.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

Dear anonymous:

Interesting to know that. If that alternative "Papacy" is for real I wonder why no one ever talks about it. (Not that I'm interested in joining it)

Do you have any websites, online sources to back up this claim?

What I do know is that, in the countries you have mentioned, there is a small, loosely organized (albeit quite prolific and vocal) network of sedevacantist and semideprivationist bishops who trace their orders (which may or may not be valid) to Archbishop Thuc.

Over the past few years, comboxes been flooded with "news" of supposedly massive "traditionalist" movements that, on closer inspection, turn out to be mere figments of the imagination. Hence my caution.

I am not saying that you are a liar, but perhaps you can produce evidence here of this group's existence?

IMHO, we need to focus on what Traditionalist groups (in communion with Rome) there actually are and not conjure up phantom / imaginary armies for our cause.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

There are a lot of "anti-popes" out there but they all have tiny followings.

Anonymous said...

I don't know why the Pope would stop this when it's exactly the sort of 'evolution' he has spent his whole life promoting.

Anonymous said...

Let the episcopacy be closed to modernists!

Anonymous said...

"From Altared boys to lectorettes to deaconettes to priestesses to bishopettes to cardinalesses and popettes: it's a slippery slope by baby steps.

P.K.T.P."

I could not have said it better !

There is another point behind this Trojan horse : the awful "theology of ministries" which is a subtle way to protestantize the Church. Liberals on one side and ecumaniacs on the other side will promote this malevolent idea.

The institution of lector is the modernized version of minor orders and a normal step toward the ordination... It will be easy then to subvert Ordinatio sacerdotalis, using the "lectorette" argument.
The elected comittee in charge of writing these suggestions is made of some prominent figures : Abp Ravasi, the maverick appointed by the pope to the Curia, cardinals Danneels and Kasper etc. ejusdem farinae. We can expect the worst from this Synod, just like the 2005 Synod ended up with pathetic statements, just like the 2006 CELAM lead to monstrous proposals.
Obviously Benedict XVI has not yet the mastery to control these assemblies. John Paul II would have not let himself trapped by the neo-libs and neo-mods like this.

Alsaticus

Flambeaux said...

This bickering is pointless.

Perhaps recourse to Our Lady Help of Christians may be of more benefit.

Didn't PapaB reject some of the recommendations of the last Synod in his post-Synodal exhortation?

Anonymous said...

A fellow called "Anonymous" said the following:

"If the Pope allows for this, this is a step towards eventual ordination of women.

If this is allowed,it would be a complete departure from Catholic teaching and tradition."

I have a few questions. First, what would be "the complete departure from Catholic teaching and tradition," the installation of women as lectors, or the ordination of women? It is not clear to me which one you mean above. I assumed you meant the "ordination of women." However, near the end of your comment, you make the following statement:

"But if the Vicar of Christ were to depart from Catholic tradition so gravely as to allow for women Lectors (a rank of clergy which may be seen as a step towards women priests), then what is to stop the notion of "women deacons"?
How can anyone blame small pockets of Catholics reacting to this departure from the Faith, and trying best as they can...even if in schism and sede-vacantist..to preserve the treasures of the Catholic Faith?"

So here, I have one simple question. I know it would be a stupid idea to allow for women lectors. But if the pope were to allow it, a "grave departure" from "Catholic tradition"? I ask this question because a line needs to be drawn here, especially when you make such a "case" for sedevacantist and sedeprivationist groups. I would like to distinguish between the utterly dumb and the actually heretical. Many heretical ideas are not dumb; and many dumb ideas are not heretical. But sedevacantism and sedeprivationism is serious business and touches on obedience to legitimate authority. I think the writer has raised an excellent question here, but I would like to know from those of you who are obviously well read (as some of you obviously are) if such an act (female Lectors) would be a "grave departure" from Catholic Tradition. I honestly would like to know for myself and my family.
Thank you
Call me Anonymous 2

Jordanes said...

Many heretical ideas are not dumb

Guess it depends on what one means by "dumb."

Anonymous said...

Let us remember the truth and doctrine of the Catholic Faith: God the Son [the Word] became and was incarnated as Man,and not as a woman. He founded and estabaished the Ecclesia of the God-Man, not a community that is ordered to a god-woman! This means that all followers of Chrst must ACT LIKE CHRIST, but only male human persons are called, in the sacrament of ORDERS, to ACT IN PERSONA CHRISTI! Why? Not only do they naturally generate and plant the seed of human life, but as re-presentatives of the God-Man, they offer themselves so that the God-Man can act through them to transmit HIS DIVINE LIFE to the whole human race. You must be a divine person in order to transmit divine life. Women are important, but they can only nurture what has been planted and generated. They are the UNION that is inseparable from the primacy of the DISTINCTION, revealed in GENESIS and the intrinsic union of the 'cannot not be' of actuality.
Thus, the Priest re-presents and signifies outwardly what is planted and generated by God through them. God does not primarily nurture us; He CREATES in order to nurture [His revelation of creation and the nuuturing of His providence cannot be separated]. God is not androgynous, HE alone creates "ex nihilo," where His providence is revealed to us as subordinated and ordered to the act of His creation. Believe it or not, His providence and care for another human being is signifed by the woman who holds and carries new human life that is generated in order to be nurtured. As a result, the fertilization of an UNDIVIDED HUMAN PERSON is not some kind of blanket permission for abortion in which it is assumed that only a "human life" but not a concrete, living human person can be determined to exist. Every human being, therefore, is the complimentarity of distinction and union that comes from father and mother, while God is always the consbstantiality of Three Distinct Divine Persons that IS IN One Undivided Unity of God. God unconditionally 'goes forth' in creation to reveal the splendor and radiance of His transcendent Truth.

Anonymous said...

It was I who said it, "Anonymous 2," not Jordanes.

I get your point, but I do think that arguing over "homousion" and other early controversies ended in certain heresies that I would not call dumb. They were about complex, important issues. The female lector issue is first of all dumb, and I would like to know if it is also heretical.
But I do see your point.

Anonymous said...

Alsaticus said ....

Obviously Benedict XVI has not yet the mastery to control these assemblies. John Paul II would have not let himself trapped by the neo-libs and neo-mods like this.


So, just like communion in the hand and alter serviettes? Come on, get real. I suppose JPII was a traditionalist too, eh?

Ottaviani said...

Obviously Benedict XVI has not yet the mastery to control these assemblies. John Paul II would have not let himself trapped by the neo-libs and neo-mods like this.

Are you kidding me? JP II couldn't get enough of surrounding himself with dissenters and neo-conservatives, who always stabbed him in the back anyway.

Anonymous said...

Too often it is forgotten that the minor orders in no way intended to teach that mere men could hold mistries in the Church, but inasmuch as they were extensions of major orders, to whom it properly belongs to read Scripture to the flock, they held such offices as lector in virtue of their eventual ordination or sacramental unity with those in major orders.

Hence it is not because men were lectors that woman can be, but it was rather that men were lectors because only men were priests.

It is also contrary to the nature and symbolism of the feminine gender for her to speak out loud, teach or read Scripture to the flock.

Men, whether Bishops or cardinals or priests, only show that by holding such an opinion they themselves are ignorant of what it means and signifies to be a man.

Br. Alexis Bugnolo

Louis E. said...

I note that some posters here seem to regard being an acolyte as a traditional prerequisite for being a lector.
In my understanding the Minor Orders were (and are in the traditional seminaties?) conferred in the order porter,then lector,then exorcist,then acolyte,i.e. acolyte is two steps above and beyond lector.