Rorate Caeli

Traditional Masses in Ireland on August 15

The Latin Mass Society of Ireland would like to announce the following Masses for the Feast of the Assumption:

Dublin Archdiocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 10.30 am, Solemn High Mass, St Kevin’s Church, Harrington St, Dublin 8. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Gerard Deighan, Adm.

Limerick Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – Mass, St. Patrick’s Church, Dublin Road, Limerick. Celebrant: Rev Father Wulfran Lebocq, ICRSS

Dublin Archdiocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 11.30 am, Mass, St Joseph’s Chapel, Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Seán Smith, C.C.

Derry Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 12 pm, Mass, St. Columba’s Church (Long Tower), Derry BT48 6TJ. Celebrant: Very Rev Father Roland Colhoun, Adm.

Meath Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, Feast of the Assumption – 2.30 pm, Mass, St Patrick’s Church, Slane, Co Meath followed by devotions at Ladyswell on the grounds of Slane Castle. Celebrant: Rev Father David Jones, O.Praem. (Organised by Ecclesia Dei Ireland)

Raphoe Diocese: Saturday, August 15 - 4 pm Mass. Cathedral of Ss Colmcille & Eunan, Letterkenny, Co Donegal. Celebrant: Father Joseph Briody, CC.

Down & Connor Diocese: Saturday, 15 August, 4 pm – Solemn High Mass, St. Patrick’s Church, 199 Donegall Street, Belfast BT1 2FL. Celebrant: Rev Father Martin Graham, C.C.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

I see that the Irish bishops continue to play their puerile games. They have been allowing one-off special Masses here, there, and everywhere since S.P. was published in 2007. Meanwhile, they are among the VERY WORST offenders against the HOLY FATHER on this. Some of their most important citieshave no every-Sunday T.L.M., including Cork, Derry, Waterford, Wexford, and Belfast. There has been almost NO PROGRESS under S.P. in Ireland. Even in the case of Killala, where the P.C.E.D. slapped down their bishop months ago over this, there has been no real compliance.

Frankly, the Pope should fire the lot of them. For all their howls of protest over the S.S.P.X, the liberal bishops of Germany have been MUCH mroe co-operative than is this batch of liberals in Ireland.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Anyone know of an EF mass near Ballybrack?. I'm going to visit my brother next week and am frankly dreading it. The masses I've been to in Ireland are even worse than some of the stuff I've seen in London. Even a half decent NO will do.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough. The problem is that the NOM is very well implanted in Ireland and so the competition is tough. But yes, faith is slightly but surely collapsing in Ireland, a real shame and pity for - once - one of the most catholic country in Europe. You can discuss the situation in this little forum frequented by some irish Trads :
http://irishcatholics.proboards.com/index.cgi

Anonymous said...

There are almost no Irish priests interested in the traditional Mass. If you checked the LMSI lists you would find the same,small number of excellent priests doing their best. There are a tiny number of Sunday Masses in the Old rite in all of Ireland. The different groups work hard and well, but, I think, the problem is not the bishops, but the tiny numbers and the even tinier numbers of priests. The article in the latest issue of Mass Of Ages (Latin Mass Society [of England and Wales]) about Spain reminds me of the Irish situation.Alan Robinson

Jordanes said...

Note to all: Bigoted comments about the Irish people and their cultural heritage will not be tolerated here either.

Anonymous said...

The following comment was made on the forum www.http://irishcatholics.proboards.com/index.cgi regarding Mr Perkins most recent outburst on Rorate Caeli about the Irish Churchs response vis á vis Summorum Pontificum.

"Let's hold Mr Perkins' typically ill-informed comments up to the light: Almost no progress in Ireland since SP?

The eve of Summorum Pontificum in Ireland was like this:

Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo;

Weekly: St Audoen's Dublin (Sunday & Holyday); Bruckless, Donegal (Sundays);

Monthly: Ss Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday); St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); and University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday).

That was then, this is now:

Daily: Islandeady, Co Mayo; St Kevin's, Dublin;

Weekly: Bruckless, Co Donegal (Sundays); Stamullen, Co Meath (Sundays); Kilkenny City (Sundays); Newtownmountkennedy, Co Wicklow (Saturdays & Holydays);

Twice monthly: St Peter's & Paul's, Cork (1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday);

Monthly: St Patrick's, Limerick (3rd Sunday); Golan, Co Donegal (1st Friday); University Church, Dublin (1st Saturday); Newbridge, Co Kildare (2nd Sunday); St Paul's, Falls Rd, Belfast (1st Saturday); Dominicans, Tralee (3rd Sunday); Glengoole, Co Tipperary (1st Thursday); Duleek, Co Meath (1st Friday);

Bi-monthly: Poor Clares, Newry (1st Sunday of every 2nd month);

Holy days: Long Tower, Derry;

Quarterly: Military Chapel, Galway; Ardagh, Co Mayo.

So we can conclude that Peter Perkins is mistaken and that contrary to his suggestion, there has been progress in Ireland since Summorum Pontificum."

Anonymous said...

On the last comments, I say, Bullocks! Look, the standard for the faithful is every-Sunday Masses (vide Article 5, S.P.). The one in Wexford is apparenelty gone. The daily Mass in Cork was cancelled a few years ago. It's hard to imagine having no every-Sunday T.L.M. in a City as important as Cork.

What are the most populous cities in Ireland?: Dublin, Cork, Derry, Belfast, Waterford, and Wexford. How many of these have gained even their very first EVERY-SUNDAY Masses since July of 2007? Answer: zero. There is no every-Sunday Mass for Cork, not one for Waterford, none for Wexford, none for Derry, none for Belfast. The situation in Dublin has improved but our Mass was available on that basis before.

Mass on Third Tuesday and second Wednesdays and alternate Friday mornings are not able to form the faithful. The faithful are required to attend every Sunday and on the holydays. You can't base your Catholic life on occasinal Masses.

I was unaware of the Sunday Mass at Kilkenny, as it is not listed at all on the website of the Latin Mass Society of Ireland. The only gain since 7.7.07 in terms of every-Sunday Mass has been the one in the Diocese of Meath.

Ireland has 26 dioceses. Only FIVE of these (19%) have the T.L.M. on the every-Sunday basis and, of these, only two are among the top ten Irish dioceses in terms of population (viz. Dublin & Meath). Before S.P. was published, there was a listed private every-Sunday Mass in the Diocese of Ferns (in Wexford). So we have an increase from four every-Sunday sees to five. We have still to see implemented the ruling of the P.C.E.D. for Killala. Where is it?

How does this compare with the situation in other countries? Not too well. Even in Protestant England, all but two of the 19 (89%) dioceses have the T.L.M. EVERY-SUNDAY. Not on alternate Tuesdays, not on Saturday mornings, but on Sundays. I note that there is nothing remotely anti-Irish in my sentiments. (This insinuation is from someone here who is reaching for it, having no evidence and no good arguements, as usual.) Anyone with a brain in his head knows that most of the faithful in England-and the bishops there--are of Irish stock too. It doesn't change the fact that there is a problem in Ireland. The Irish bishops of Ireland are ignoring S.P., whereas the mainly Irish bishops in England are not.

The last writer thinks he knows something. He knows the local situation but clearly has no way of compariing it to anything. In France, 83% of the faithful have the old Mass every Sunday; in the U.S.A., it's 81%. 37 U.S. dioceses gained their first every-Sunday Mass since 2007. Even my pathetic country of Canada has made important gains (whoops, ban me for despising Canada). In both countries, the per centage of faithful living in those dioceses is over 93%. The only saving grace for Ireland is that a quarter of the faithful there are fortunate enough to live in Dublin.

Approving Masses on weekdays is virtually irrelevant. "Summorum Pontificum" makes provision in particular for regular Sunday Masses. Try reading Article 5 before blathering nonsense.

P.K.T.P.

Jordanes said...

Commenters will please moderate their rhetoric. Take it down a notch.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Jordanes could clarify who he was referring to when he alleged any anti-Hibernicism. If the one who posted anti-Irish sentiments--and that sure as hell wasn't me--did not have his or her post published, why mention such a thing, as if to cast aspersions on those whose posts do appear?

Just so that everyone here is clear, I hold absoltuely no anti-Irish sentiments. The exact opposite happens to be the case, not that that should matter because it is IRRELEVANT. My concern is for the suffering traditionalists have had to endure at the hands of the rotters who are their bishops.

I think of Ireland very much as parallel to my own country, Canada. We in Canada have had to sit here and watch everybody else get countless Sunday Masses while we are given a stone for a loaf of bread and a serpent for a fish. During a period in which American and French acccess to the old Mass has climbed every year from 1988 to the present, the number of dioceses in my country having it EVERY SUNDAY (and not some insult of second Tuesday Masses when nobody can get there) went from 10 (out of 63) up to 13--and then back down to 10! I'm not making this up. We've gone down BACK to where we started. That was 'progress' under E.D.A. of 1988.

Then along came "Summorum Pontificum". Our Modernist liberal bishops sat on their bloody hands and watched as the Americans and the Germans got scores of Masses. After one full year, we got just ONE, in my own Diocese of Victoria. We used to have it before that De Rogue heretic cancelled it and we had to wait and pray for FOURTEEN YEARS to get it back. Fourteen years!

Our situation in Canada very much paralleled that of Ireland. Then, this spring, out of the blue, the every-Sunday T.L.M. came to four dioceses in the space of just two dioceses in just two months. We've seen more progress in Canada in those two months than we had previously seen in about twenty years.

So my intent re Ireland is sympathy for my fellow traditionalists who are there. I pray that their bishops will DO SOMETHING and allow every-Sunday Masses in the larger cities. What is holding them up? Is it heresy, enmity, or just incompetence? Why are they resisting when most bishops in France and the U.S.A. and Austria and Belgium and even New Zealand are not resisting? What is their problem?

P.K.T.P.

Askel McTurkell said...

First of all, let me give PKTP a lesson in Irish geography. The cities of Ireland rank in size as follows, though Belfast has roughly the same number of Catholics as Cork (likewise I am leaving sizeable Northern Irish Protestant towns out): Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Derry, Limerick, Galway, Waterford. Large towns rank like this: Newry, Drogheda, Dundalk, Sligo, Athlone, Bray. Wexford, smaller than Kilkenny, does not get a look in.

The Kilkenny Mass takes place every Sunday at 5 pm in St Patrick's Church as of 5 July '09. The LMSI webmaster hasn't noticed yet, neither has PKTP.

The LMSI ignored requests of the Ferns diocese in the past not to publicise the Mass said by a suspended priest in Wexford Town. That priest is no longer in good health, so it is only now that Wexford people are petitioning their bishop. The situation in Cork is similar - a retired SMA missionary (of unequivocally good standing) was saying the Mass privately in his order's house and while this was going on, no petition was presented in Cork. The LMSI should never have listed this Mass either.

Of the centres of major population listed - as Stamullen, Co Meath is only minutes from Drogheda, Bray is a twenty minute train trip from Dublin and Dundalk is even nearer to Newry, only Waterford and Athlone have no regular permitted EF Mass (Athlone has the SSPX). But is PKTP aware of petitions in either town? I am not, but perhaps he could enlighten us. Indeed the Irish have been very slow at presenting petitions.

It is strange that PKTP doesn't comment on the underperformance in Ireland's western province in Connaught.

Where the Mass has been introduced in Ireland, the process has been slow and painstaking. But I believe that what Alan Robinson says about the bishops is true - many bishops have conceeded permission for the Mass in principle. In the case of the Limerick diocese (which is fifth in concentration of Catholics, though unmentioned in either of PKTP's lists and has a bigger population in its hinterland than either Cork or Derry - the latter's being partially covered by Bruckless which is only a little more than an hour's drive from Derry), the Bishop has formally established the Institute of Christ the King in the city. Limerick is waiting on Mgr Wach to send a priest to Ireland permanently rather than flying one in once a month at present. Likewise, the FSSP fly a priest into Newbridge once a month and this was at the expence of the Bishop of Kildare & Leighlin originally.

To return to Alan Robinson's point, it is not the Irish bishops, but the few people and fewer priests. All the priests listed as celebrants above do much more than occasional Masses, with three of them working very busy apostolates - the only thing keeping Fr Smith, for example, from having an every Sunday Mass in Newtownmountkennedy is that he would be unavailable one Sunday in three and the Dublin chaplaincy is not in a position to supply a priest for that purpose. Father John Loftus, who is the Latin Mass chaplain in Killala covers five of the six western dioceses on his own as Father Pillon is not in a position to leave Islandeady most of the time. In regard to laity, the dominant group is the LMSI, with a few other locally focussed groups, but all could use more volunteers than they have.

I have a couple more observations. I am not competant to judge the NO in most Irish churches, but it would be true to say that Ireland still has a much higher attendance than the European average, so there are obviously many Irish for whom this is sufficient. Secondly, the SSPX has hardly been a blazing success in Ireland either - so your average Irish bishop, priest and layperson is more remote from liturgical controversy than elsewhere. This is to state the case as I observe in Ireland, rather than through internet based research.

Anonymous said...

The main factor which makes Ireland different from the countries mentioned is that the faithful are not demanding the Extraordinary Form is sufficient numbers to make every-Sunday Masses feasible. This is nothing to do with intransigence by bishops.

There are many reasons for this, but it's probably connected to the fact that total Mass attendance is higher than many if not all those other countries. It's also important to note that a number of the northern Irish dioceses (either side of the border) are among the most theologically conservative in the English-speaking world.

I'm not aware of any strategy in those northern dioceses, but I think some of the sympathetic clergy feel that the first task is bringing the extraordinary form to as large a group as possible through set piece one-off Masses. When interest grows there will no doubt be an expansion of Masses in Ireland.

Jordanes said...

If the one who posted anti-Irish sentiments--and that sure as hell wasn't me--did not have his or her post published, why mention such a thing, as if to cast aspersions on those whose posts do appear?

No, you were not the person who posted racist, bigoted attacks on the Irish people and their culture, Mr. Perkins. Nor, obviously, did I post my warning to cast aspersions on those whose posts do not contain racist attacks on the Irish people. I posted the warning to tell the person, and anyone else who may be thinking of making similar remarks, that such things are not tolerated here.

Anonymous said...

I thank Mr. McTurkell for the information he includes. I did not intend to rank those cities by population when I listed them. It remains a fact, however, that only two of the top ten Irish dioceses in terms of population (viz. Dublin & Meath) have the T.L.M. every Sunday, and this is quite sad.

I was aware of the I.C.R. permission but WHEN, I wonder, will the I.C.R. send a permanent priest?

Some Irish bloggers here are asserting that the problem is more a lack of interest in the laity rather than intransigence among the bishops. That, it seems to me, is even less positive in a way. Consider the situation in most of Africa. For a very different reason (viz. lack of communication about the T.L.M.) it is also a lack of interest there which is holding us back. The result is that there are very few of our Masses for an entire continent, large parts of which are very Catholic (esp. a central zone).

About the S.M.A. priest of the past, I'm not sure why his Masses should not have been listed if he was in good standing. Really, the rule from the P.C.E.D. is that he himself should not list regularly-celebrated Masses, but there is no way to prevent others from doing so, although I suppose it would be imprudent.

I have watched the numbers very closely in nearly every country since 1988. My impression remains that progress in Ireland, like that in my own country, Canada, has been incredibly slow, often with setbacks. It is very irritating when one sees how the French and the Americans (and, since S.P., the Germans) are getting huge numbers of Traditional Latin Masses while we get few, if any.

P.K.T.P.

LMSI member said...

The fact that on the whole we Irish tend towards laziness when it comes liturgical matters is not completely our fault since for the most part of our recent history we were celebrationg Mass in private and without singing, its easy to see why the Americans and the Germans are making progress-they have had a rich and vibrant liturgical history that has not been forgotten completely. We are also very parochial and don't tend towards individualism in matters of religion. If, over time the Bishops here made a concerted effort to improve liturgy and application of SP, then things could change. This Motu Proprio favours us a lot less where the onus is on "Mr Pewsitter" to make up the 'stable group' than the Indult Ecclesia Dei ever was-the burden then weighed more on the Bishops to provide. As Askel McTurkell pointed out along with Alan Robinson, the dearth of clergy is a major factor aswell meaning alot of the 'zeal' (to increase visibility of the Latin Mass and in educating people about it) of some laypeople and groups goes unrealised.We in the Latin Mass Society of Ireland would like to do many things, however we are few and with no resources our efforts alot of the time can be fruitless. Oremus.

Anonymous said...

IN response to L.M.S.I.:

Well, we can certainly agree, I think, that S.P. needs a clarification. While the situation is particularly bad in some countries (Ireland, Canada, the Philippines, the Netherlands, various parts of Africa, the Czech Republic, Hungary and, above all, Portugal), the rate of improvement has decreased to a crawl in even the better places.

I have recently learned that finally, after a struggle going back to 2006, the Diocese of Nashville, U.S.A., is about to get every-Sunday Masses. But discovering the details is almost impossible: nobody wants to tell this deep dark secret.

Considering Article 1 of S.P., the terms of which are usually overlooked, I think that it's time the Holy See stipulated that every diocese should have at least one every-Sunday Mass. While this would not be enforceable except where faithful asked for it, it would at least set a guideline for bishops to follow, and it would deal with those bishops who are stubbornly resisting the m.p., such as you, Archbishop Jordan of Reims. I'm thinking about you.

More is needed because we are now treading water nearly everywhere. In my country, Canada, to get a bishop to stop obstructing the m.p., you almost need to put a loaded gun to his head. I'm thinking of such rotters as Bishop Rivest of Chicoutimi. There is a man who is not afraid to defy the Pope openly, right to his face.

P.K.T.P.

Brandsma Review reader said...

There are some learned commentators above such as Askel McTurkell and the LMSI member, so I am surprised they missed a major point in regard to Ireland's Latin Mass famine - probably a more significant factor than either the lay reserve on petitioning or as A McT points out, a weak SSPX.

The initial response of Irish Bishops to Quattuor Abhinc Annos/Ecclesia Dei Adflicta was relatively Ok - Every-Sunday Masses in Dublin, Belfast and Sligo with daily Mass in Mayo, weekly in Donegal and monthly in Derry and Ballina. This came to an end in 1992. What changed?

The Irish bishops went on an ad limina visit then and the late Bishop of Kerry, Dr Diarmuid O Suilleabhain (for non-Goidelophones, that's Jeremiah O'Sullivan) visited Cardinal Innocenti and the PCED. Mgr O Suilleabhain had a few petitions on his desk at the time and his initial response hinted he was favourably disposed, but after he had spoken to Cardinal Innocenti, he changed his mind and refused to grant the Mass. We are not sure what was said, but it gave the bishop the impression that he had no obligation to implement Ecclesia Dei Adflicta and the PCED would do nothing. Lest anyone think Mgr O Súilleabháin got the wrong end of the stick at the meeting, he mentioned this in correspondence to a native of the diocese (Mrs Hannah McCarthy or Cahirciveen, Co Kerry) and it was commented on not only in the Irish Brandsma Review, but by Roger McCaffrey in The Latin Mass Magazine, so the PCED could not have missed the comment, but they made no response.

The effect in Ireland was noticable. No new traditional Mass was permitted until 1998 - any petition in the interim was met with refusal (so one can understand a certain reluctance on Irish laity to petition now). When the priest saying the Sligo Mass died, he was not replaced. The Derry Mass was cancelled due to poor attendance and the priests saying the Belfast Mass died or got sick, so it reduced to every Sunday of every second month, finally expiring in 2001. Cancellation of Masses continued until the papal interregnum in 2005 when Ireland's Cistercian abbots, acting as a college, cancelled the quarterly Mass in Mellifont Abbey.

The trend only reversed first with the establishment of an every Sunday Mass in Donegal in 1999, and then with concrete efforts by the LMSI in Limerick and Cork in the couple of years before SP. But we are only seeing results now. Hopefully these are just the first fruits.

Brandsma Review reader said...

With Jordanes' indulgence, I will remind those with anti-Irish bigotted comments, that Ireland was once known as Insula Sanctorum et Scholarum or the Islands of Saints and Scholars and a great number of Catholic countries owe their faith to the work of Irish monks and missionaries.

As an Irishman, I'll confess the country is a pale reflection of this now, and one sign of this is the slow progress of SP in Ireland.

Another LMSI member said...

The observation about Cardinal Innocenti and Bishop O Suilleabhain is pertinent to any discussion of TLM in Ireland. There is another factor too, more the case in Northern Ireland than the Republic. Someone posted a comment, now withdrawn, about the strength of the dioceses of Northern Ireland (two exclusively in NI; four are cross-border). The thing to remember, which you get at looking at the resume's of the Nuncios in Dublin is that the Church'es first objective in relation to Ireland is the Peace Process. In ecclesiastical terms in the north, this means ecumenism, ecumenism and more ecumenism. In this climate, I think the Holy See would be very slow to intervene in a generally well-run diocese like Down & Connor, when the Bishop and administration could plausibly point out that they are being pushed into ecumenism with Protestants by the Holy See as part of its commitment to the Northern Irish Peace Process, so why is the Holy See trying to nudge it in another direction to create a rallying point for the greatest opponents of this?

This applies across the North and the Holy See is not going to allow anyone think SP has more force in the Republic than the North.

On another point - the daily Mass in Dublin may mean little or nothing, but the chaplaincy ended a situation in Dublin before where some people got traditional requiems and some didn't and one couple, and nobody else, got a traditional nuptial Mass. Indeed the regime on requiem and nuptial Masses was always much more favourable outside Dublin than in Dublin.