Rorate Caeli

Bishop Arborelius on the SSPX and the newest Swedish TV attack on the Pope

Bishop Arborelius celebrating Mass (picture from the homepage of the website of the Diocese of Stockholm)


The following is the official translation of the press release of Bishop Anders Arborelius OCD as found in the official website of the Diocese of Stockholm. As such I have made no attempt to edit it. Emphases mine. CAP.

PRESS RELEASE: Swedish TV focus once more on the Catholic Church and the SSPX

Catholic Church in Sweden
090923

Sending information to the Vatican is pure routine, says Anders Arborelius, Bishop of Stockholm in a comment on this evening’s programme on Swedish television, which focuses on what the Vatican actually knew about anti-Semitism in SSPX, before the excommunication was lifted in January this year.

The programme ‘Uppdrag granskning’, which will be broadcasted this evening on Swedish Television, is a follow-up to the internationally renowned programme sent last January. In that Bishop Richard Williamson of St Pius X’s Society denied the existence of the Holocaust. This was only days before the Vatican lifted the excommunication of him and the three other SSPX-bishops.

The programme this evening will focus on what the Vatican actually knew, before the excommunication was lifted, as regards anti-Semitic attitudes of Richard Williamson and other SSPX-members. The TV-team has made interviews with Anders Arborelius OCD, Bishop of Stockholm, Cardinal Walter Kasper, and Archbishop Emil Paul Tscherrig, the papal nuncio to the Nordic countries.

Bishop Anders Arborelius and the nuncio both confirm that a report concerning the activities of SPPX in Sweden as well as a summary of the contents of the interview with Richard Williamson (as far as it was known to them) were sent to the Vatican in November 2008. Thus, forewarning that the programme with the Holocaust-denial would be broadcasted on the 21 January 2009. As it turned out, this was the same day as Pope Benedict XVI signed the document, which lifted the excommunication.

The complete text of the statement by Bishop Anders Arborelius:

Statement concerning Swedish television ‘Uppdrag granskning’ about SSPX and the Vatican on the 23 September

This last winter, the Church passed through an acid test when the Pope lifted the excommunication of the bishops of the St Pius X’s Society, only days after one of them, Richard Williamson, had denied the Holocaust in the Swedish TV-programme ‘Uppdrag granskning’.

Many, inside and outside the Church, drew the wrong conclusion that the Church now had accepted anti-Semitic opinions, and the
disassociation from the Second Vatican Council’s clear acceptance of religious freedom, ecumenism and inter-religious dialogue.

In a letter to the Catholic bishops in March, the Pope himself made clear that this was not the case. To be fully reconciled with the Catholic Church, SSPX has to distance itself from Williamson’s statements, and accept the Church’s teaching after the Second Vatican Council as well as the teaching of the Magisterium of all the popes after the Council.

On the 23 September ‘Uppdrag granskning’ will broadcast a follow-up rogramme focusing on what has happened since last winter, and what information the Vatican had before the lifting of the excommunication.

In the programme it will be made clear that we, at the office of the Diocese of Stockholm (as we always do in ecclesiastical matters), had forwarded the information we had about SSPX and Richard Williamson to the Vatican. We also sent the information we had as regards the contents of the interview ‘Uppdrag granskning’ made with him.

I want to underline that forwarding information to the Vatican is pure routine, and nothing exceptional to this case.I would also wish to say that it is my personal opinion that the good that came out of last spring’s turbulence, was that all of us had to show our true colours. (Indeed. CAP)

The Pope and the Vatican has demanded Richard Williamson and SSPX to clearly and without hesitation distance themselves from the denial of the Holocaust and ask for forgiveness. So far, this has not occurred, at least not in Williamson’s case. Nor can we see that the representatives of SSPX have shown the openness and humility that is required for the negotiations between the Vatican and SSPX that are about to begin in October.

Unfortunately their Superior General, Bishop Bernard Fellay, as late as July this year said that they are not willing to oblige or to compromise concerning central issues in which the leaders of the Church and SSPX do not agree. (
http://www.cfnews.org/bishopfellay-090731.htm )

Let us all pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us, and remember that Christ never abandons his Church.

+ Anders Arborelius OCD

***

The Uppdrag granskning program can be found here:

http://svtplay.se/t/103535/uppdrag_granskning

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

The problem is the men and women around Bishop Arborelius, whose advice he depends upon. In a sense, he needs to be rescued from them.

The interview he gave clearly shows that the advices his staff is giving him is very poor.

/Swedish Catholic

Gideon Ertner said...

Typical post-Vatican II hypocrisy. Ecumenism and dialogue are sacrosanct principles - except as far as groups to the 'right' are concerned.

H. B. Palmaer said...

A brief report from Sweden.

The documentary was mostly a boring flop: very, very little was new. No one in Rome, nor the nuntio to Scandinavia accepted even to talk to the rascals from Uppdrag granskning. In their stead, a known Swedish modernist dissenter was given 10 minutes towards the end to condemn the Pope's "conservatism" and talk about the need for women priests etc.

Unfortunately, the bishop of Stockholm and cardinal Kasper did talk to the Swedish television. With no apparent reluctance.

Kardinal K assured that he had told Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos that the SSPX had extreme views, whatever this means.

The bishop of Stockholm talked about a report (about the interview with bishop Williamson) that he gave to the Papal nuntio several weeks before the first Uppdrag granskning was sent.

Now, this is interesting. For two reasons: 1) how, in the first place, did the bishop know about an interview known only to the Swedish television, and this several weeks ahead of its being sent? 2) How did the Swedish television know about the Bishop's report given to the Papal nuntio? How did they even get hold of this very report addressed to Rome (for they did, as shown briefly during the documentary yesterday evening)?

All in all, the documentary tried but failed to prove that the Pope had previous knowledge of the Williamson interview. Then, it tried to portray Cardinal Castrillon as a crypto-Nazi disloyal to the Pope. With the help of Cardinal Kasper and bishop Arborelius.

Anonymous said...

What was Archbishop Arborelius' reaction when he heard that Archbishop Zollitsch of Freiburg had denied the sacrificial value of Our Lord's Passion and Death earlier this year? I imagine it must have been unqualified outrage, but I'm having trouble finding any reference to it anywhere...

Peter said...

In that Bishop Richard Williamson of St Pius X’s Society denied the existence of the Holocaust.

IT'S A LIE !!!!!!!! How can people who lie so impertinently be treated seriously?

Vatican actually knew about anti-Semitism in SSPX

Anti-Semitism is a generic insult, and that's the case. It's in the eye of the beholder.

There was at least one priest of Jewish origin in the SSPX when the excommunications were lifted. He later became somewhat famous. So I say that bishop Arborelius is a Nazi and an anti-Semite, because he doesn't like an organization which includes Jews, and whose founder's father died in a Nazi concentration camp. Quod erat demnostrandum.

But how can the willingness to bring Jews back to God be ant-Semitic? Is bishop Arborelius crazy or what? Or are the Jews who say that? But why is he following their opinions instead of the Church?

It's bishop Arborelius and cardinal Kasper who hate Jews, because they push them into damnation.

Does the Vatican know about anti-Catholicism and anti-Semitism as a result of it, in the Catholic Church, especially in Swedish Catholic Church?

To be fully reconciled with the Catholic Church, SSPX has to distance itself from Williamson’s statements, and accept the Church’s teaching after the Second Vatican Council as well as the teaching of the Magisterium of all the popes after the Council.

Says who? Bishop Arborelius? Cardinal Kasper? Who are they to impose their terms? They're just trying to enforce their and Jewish will on the Holy Father.

They really don't know that accepting the Magisterium, which doesn't change by definition, was never the case?

Or maybe they should accept the teaching of all Holy Fathers before the Council and the preconciliar Magisterium? Or at least stop lying?

Crouchback said...

Is it just me, have I read this correctly. Please someone help me out.

Is this Bishop using the Holocaust as a "tool" to change the SSPX view of Vatican II..?? It has at least a bit of that in my reading.

If so, what next. Maybe those with doubts about the Apollo Moon landings should be questioned about their attitudes to the Treaty of Utrecht. Or Global warming deniers should fess up about their links to Lee Harvey Oswald.

becket said...

Popes new allies!. Hopefully!

http://insidethevatican.com/newsflash/2009/newsflash-sep-23-09.htm

Dan Hunter said...

"Many, inside and outside the Church, drew the wrong conclusion that the Church now had accepted anti-Semitic opinions,"

Neither do the FSSPX.

What is the point of posting this article?
It carries with it the authority and weight of my voice during show and tell in 2nd grade.
At least in 2nd grade I gave an interesting 3 minute talk on the new globe I had just recieved for Christmas.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

"What is the point of posting this article."

Dan,

I think it should be rather obvious. Bishop Arborelius' official statement is practically a confession of his involvement with the new Swedish TV attack on the Holy Father. It also demonstrates that either he is terribly misinformed about the Rome-Econe dialogue, or has decided to join the pack attacking the Holy See for its stance of reconciliation towards the SSPX.

Afonso Miguel said...

Bento XVI in Portugal (Fátima) next year: http://tribunaonline.blogs.sapo.pt/70811.html

Anonymous said...

"It also demonstrates that either he is terribly misinformed about the Rome-Econe dialogue, or has decided to join the pack attacking the Holy See for its stance of reconciliation towards the SSPX."

It hold to the first alternative. I do believe he is terribly misinformed by his very ideologically motivated entourage. He wishes to do good but it ends up in a mess. Unfortunately the pressreleases who are put to him bear his name.

It doesn't help either that the cardinal normally visiting Sweden is cardinal Kasper.

/Swedish Catholic

Anonymous said...

Swedish Catholic:

We should hope that your benevolent view about the Bishop of Stockholm is indeed the right one.

But I have a question: why did he give the Interview on the TV if he should bear no blame and only his employees were responsible for the whole mess? A more prudent man should have kept silent. We should not forget that Bp. Williamson was exactly blamed for his imprudence of telling his opinion in front of the camera team of the infamous TV.

John McFarland said...

Let me try to summarize and push the analysis a little further along.

1. As regards who knew what when:

Bishop Arborelius says quite forthrightly that the Vatican knew about the interview.

Unless Cardinal Kasper says quite forthrightly that Bishop Williamson's views were common knowledge around the Vatican.

It is hard to conceive that the Pope himself didn't know about Bishop Williamson's views. Any number of people would have wanted to scotch the lifting, and would have made it a point to get the news to the Holy Father.

But in his March 10 letter to the world's bishops, the Holy Father says the following:

"I have been told that consulting the information available on the internet would have made it possible to perceive the problem early on. I have learned the lesson that in the future in the Holy See we will have to pay greater attention to that source of news."

Thus the Pope himself in effect denies knowing, and seems to indicate that the Curia in general did not know.

Bishop Arborelius and Cardina Kasper are at somee pains to contradict the Holy Father.

Somebody is not being altogether candid.

2. As regards the original interview:

Bishop Arborelius knew a lot more about the interview than one would have thought. My guess is that the Church officials in Sweden and the TV guys had a little cabal going: the Church authorities wanted to run the SSPX out of Sweden, or at least discredit it, and the TV guys wanted a scandal to play with.

3. As regards Swedish Catholic's remarks:

I preach in and out of season that the problems of the Church in and since Vatican II have not occurred because the Vatican has been disobeyed, but because the Vatican has been obeyed. Put otherwise, the conciliar revolution was inaugurated and carried through under the PATRONAGE of John XXIII and particularly Pope Paul; and the subsequent popes, who were junior partners in bringing about that revolution, have continued to support it.

I am therefore most skeptical about the notion that Bishop Arborelius is merely the tool or the gull of the wicked liberals around him. As we say in the States: it may be true, but it's not the way to bet.

Dan Hunter said...

Antonio,

I understand.

Thank you for explaining it to me.
That helps.

Judging by the accompanying photo of Bishop Arborelius offering Mass I would say that HE has joined the pack that is attacking our Holy Father.
I hope I am wrong on this....
"Lex Orandi Lex Credendi.

Paulo Ghetti Frade said...

What comes to mind when I see these attacks is one of Saint John Bosco dreams.

"Imagine yourself to be with me on the seashore, or better, on an isolated rock and not to see any patch of land other than that under your feet. On the whole of that vast sheet of water you see an innumerable fleet of ships in battle array. The prows of the ships are formed into sharp, spear-like points so that wherever they are thrust they pierce and completely destroy. These ships are armed with cannons, with lots of rifles, with incendiary materials, with other firearms of all kinds, and also with books, and advance against a ship very much bigger and higher than themselves and try to dash against it with the prows or burn it or in some way to do it every possible harm."

"As escorts to that majestic fully equipped ship, there are many smaller ships, which receive commands by signal from it and carry out movements to defend themselves from the opposing fleet. In the midst of the immense expanse of sea, two mighty columns of great height arise a little distance the one from the other. On the top of one, there is the statue of the Immaculate Virgin, from whose feet hangs a large placard with this inscription: Auxilium Christianorum - "Help of Christians"; on the other, which is much higher and bigger, stands a Host of great size proportionate to the column and beneath is another placard with the words: Salus Credentium - Salvation of the Faithful (Believers).

"The supreme commander of the big ship is the Sovereign Pontiff. He, seeing the fury of the enemies and the evils among which his faithful find themselves, determines to summon around himself the captains of the smaller ships to hold a council and decide what is to be done.

All the captains come aboard and gather around the Pope. They hold a meeting, but meantime the wind and the waves gather in storm, so they are sent back to control their own ships. There comes a short lull; for a second time the Pope gathers the captains around him, while the flag-ship goes on its course. But the frightful storm returns.
The Pope stands at the helm and all his energies are directed to steering the ship towards those two columns from whose summits hang many anchors and strong hooks linked to chains.

All the enemy ships move to attack it, and they try in every way to stop it and to sink it: SOME WITH BOOKS AND WRITINGS OR INFLAMABLE MATERIAS, of which they are full; others with firearms, with rifles and with rams. The battle rages ever more relentlessly. The enemy prows thrust violently, but their efforts and impact prove useless. They make attempts in vain and waste all their labor and ammunition; the big ship goes safely and smoothly on its way. Sometimes it happens that, struck by formidable blows, it gets large, deep gaps in its sides; but no sooner is the harm done that a gentle breeze blows from the two columns and the cracks close up and the gaps are stopped immediately."


I know this is just a private revelation but it describes pretty well the current battle.

Anonymous said...

A disturbing confession of Bp Arborelius indeed who seems to say he was involved months before the January TV show in this unsavory campaign against the Pope and the Catholic Church at large, under the pretext of SSPX and Williamson.

Cardinal Kasper is stating he knew everything about Bp Williamson's antisemtism. Good for him but why did he stay dead silent before during years ? Never said a word in 2000-2002, not a word in 2003, mute in 2005 when the pope encountered Bp Fellay and so on.
We could have the Walter Kasper's silence to replace Pius XII so-called silence.

Finally Bp Arborelius is poorly informed as Swedish Catholic wrote, very poorly and so poorly that his own blindness is to be questionned.
SSPX NEVER EVER endorsed Bp Williamson's statements minimizing the nazi genocide of the Jews. Never in a single official review or public statement.
After the January scandal, Bp Fellay and at least 2 District superiors distanced themselves clearly from these W. statements.
It is sad that a Catholic bishop is simply propagating false informations on his own website. When just a click on Google would bring His Excellency proofs of the contrary ...

Alsaticus

Michael said...

This part and parcel of the Northern European bishops' conferences attack on BXVI. "Our man" was not elected to the Papacy - a remark of one such subsequent to the elevation of BXVI. +Williamson/SSPX is just one of the sticks with which to to beat him. But not all SSPX clergy are within the +Williamson cabal. In essence we are seing a mainly Protestant minded Catholic prelates seeing the world on the wane and are reacting thereto.

+Willamson should do the honourable thing and retire and save the situation from further aggravation.

Anonymous said...

I would hope the good Bishop of Stockholm would spend his time converting the pagans of Sweden and their heretical brethren the Lutherans rather than worry about Bishop Williamson. That country is soo atheistic is it not reasonable to assume that the vast majority of Swedes are headed for HELL.

Paul Haley said...

Bishop Williamson has apologized for his remarks and withdrawn himself to a place of prayer and reflection at the insistence of his religious superior. Yet, the firestorm continues and we have remarks such as this from Bishop Arborelius designed, it would appear, to further repudiate Bishop Williamson and "and other SSPX-members" for their alleged crimes. Crimes, it seems, that come from an honest revelation of personal views formed over 20 years ago and outside the agreed-upon topics for his interview on Swedish TV,

But, the most ironic statement is that which says: ..."it is my personal opinion that the good that came out of last spring’s turbulence, was "that all of us had to show our true colours." To this sstatement CAP adds: Indeed!, As a matter of fact I would ask Bishop Arborelius: "And what are your true colours, Your Excellecy, unity or division, tolerance or hatred of your brother in the episcopacy?"

Jordanes said...

Bishop Arborelius seems not to be very familiar with the SSPX and how it and Bishop Williamson have responded to the Holocaust-minimising controversy. But he apparently would have us believe that Pope Benedict and Cardinal Castrillon were familiar with Bishop Williamson's views.

Anonymous said...

Paul Haley:

Of course His Excellency Arborelius has shown his true color. We see it, and it's not a complimenting one.

Peter said...

How can you say that bishop Arborelius is innocent and manipulated when he himself claims that he had acted to sabotage the events of January?

And what is he doing now?

If some innocent man was manipulated, it was bishop Williamson, as if holding different opinions than the Jews was some kind of guilt.

Please don't tell me that it's all about prudence. Enemies of the Church would have found another mean to attack us. The prince of this world has always been hating Our Lord, long before bishop Williamson was born or the SSPX was founded.

Jordanes said...

. . . as if holding different opinions than the Jews was some kind of guilt.

The controversy that erupted wasn't and isn't about "holding different opinions than the Jews."

Anonymous said...

I hate to think that I nearly wasted an entire day to drive down 50 miles to Hyde Park, at the University of Chicago, to listen to Bishop Arborelius talk about Carmelite spirituality to some Catholic institute there. Sloth does indeed have some merits!

Jordanes said...

Cardinal Castrillon has called Bishop Arborelius' bluff:

http://fidesetforma.blogspot.com/2009/09/castrillon-quella-di-arborelius-e-una.html

Cardinal Castrillon says Bishop Arborelius' claims are a "calumny."

Anonymous said...

It is a big mess over here and the recent events has demonstrated it to the world.

Of course a Bishop is responsible for his Diocese. But if you wish to know why the Diocese of Stockholm ended up in the middle of this mess, it is in the entourage of Bishop Arborelius that you should look. And these people have been fighting Catholic Tradition for years, sometimes with the most hallucinating personal theories.

Just one exemple from this year.
The Official stated publicly something like that the Pope has lifted the excommunications of the head of the SSPX but that the body (that is the priests, seminarians and even the faithful) still is excommunicated and in schism. The head (the Bishops) would thus be eligible for receiving Holy Communion in the Church.

They are completely ignorant about the issues and have a false idea of what the sspx is.

Bishop Arborelius himself is a very nice and pius man. He is not a wolf in shepherds clothing. Would he have proper council, he could to much good.

Please, we suffer from this. Of your charity, please say a prayer or two for the faithful in Sweden.

/Swedish Catholic

Daniel said...

Jordanes,

did you skip the Italian in "Quella di Arborelius"?

Oliver said...

Paul Haley,


How neatly people put their own interpretation on events! Fellay and Williamson are engaged in a tussle for the soul of the SSPX. Fellay wants rid of the bishop but he is not a mere priest to be easily dismissed. When Fellay loses more credibility over the futile talks with Rome, Williamson will be saying I told you so and shake off Fellay's threats towards him. Williamson is very much a loud voice prepared to get louder to upset the cosy status quo.

Crouchback said...

At the end of the line there is the Pope. Anyone who wants to be catholic has to be in communion with the Pope. The SSPX Bishops, Priests and laity all know this. The situation for the last 20+ years for the Society is an anomalous one. That has to come to a close sooner or later. The coming talks will see to that. Bishop Williamson will be within the Sheepfold. As simple as that. I for one can't see him going off into the wilderness all on his lonesome. If he does, which I just cannot see, then he will have no support.
The much more pressing troubles are with the "corrupt and decaying" diocese that stick rigidly to the Novus Ordo...a dead Rite, in which there is no life. Just how do we wean these people away from this disaster...???

Jordanes said...

did you skip the Italian in "Quella di Arborelius"?

No.

The Italian text as well as the German report on which the Italian text is based both tell us the same thing.

"Der frühere Kurienkardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos hat dem katholischen Bischof von Stockholm, Anders Arborelius, Verleumdung vorgeworfen.

"Dessen Behauptung, Rom bereits Ende 2008 über die Haltung des Traditionalisten-Bischofs und Holocaust-Leugners Richard Williamson informiert zu haben, sei 'eine Verleumdung', sagte der 80-Jährige in einem Interview mit der Süddeutschen Zeitung."

"The former Curial Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos has accused the Catholic Bishop of Stockholm, Anders Arborelius, of calumny [or 'slander'].

"His statement, that Rome by the end of 2008 had already been informed about the attitude of the Traditionalist Bishop and Holocaust-denier Richard Williamson, is 'a calumny' [or 'a slander'], the 80-year old said in an interview with The Süddeutschen Zeitung."

http://www.wienerzeitung.at/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3941&Alias=wzo&cob=440173

The Italian text at Fides et Forma says the same thing: The position which ["quelle"] Bishop Arborelius holds -- i.e., what Bishop Arborelius said on TV -- is for Cardinal Castrillon simply a "calumny" or slander.

Anonymous said...

Some more excerpts of the interview:
[...]
"Sz: Now the Bishop of Stockholm Anders Arborelius states that he informed the Nunciature in Stockholm as early as in November 2008.
Castrillón: I deplore this untrustworthy (German: inseriös)statement a lot, because it is false. It is a slander (Gr.: Verleumdung)to spread out this kind of information. We save all the documents we get in digital form. Bishop Arborelius should say how, whom, and when he passed the information on, and whether it was passed on in written form or orally.

SZ: The Magazine Spiegel reported the interview of Williamson in 2008. Nobody reads it in the Vatican?
Castrillón: It is possible that the German department in the Secretary of States knew about this report. I didn't.

SZ: Father Fellay, the General of the SSPX, might have known already what Williamson said in Interview, if we believe the letter he sent to the STV on the 21th. Jan., in order to prevent the series from being broadcasted.
Castrillón: I know nothing about this.

SZ: Williamson said, he got to know you during a lunch?
Castrillón: I had at that time just become the President of Ecclesia Dei. And there I saw in midsummer a group of persons in cassocks, so I asked my secretary to inform himself about this group. He told me they are Lefebvrists. So I invited them to me.

SZ: What was your impression of them?
Castrillón: That they are good people, but sometimes too much fixed upon the idea that all evil in the world has the reform to the Council as its source. As I tried to relax the atmosphere and joked that if I would choose a language for Mass, I would take the Aramaic, the language of Christ, as I didn't know who had the bad idea to change the language of the Lord against the language of His persecutors. They found it a very bad joke. After this meeting it came the dialog with JPII, and then another dialog in Aug. 2005, with Pope Benedict.
SZ: you didn't even know (about the opinion of Williamson) in 2009?

Castrillón: I only know that the STV interviewed him on the occasion of a deacon ordination. And I got only on Feb. 5th informed about what he said in it. The Nunciature gave me the information in a sealed envelope.

[...]

SZ: Can you make a picture of Richard Williamson?

Castrillón: He is an honest man, somewhat eccentric. Not silly, but obsessive and stubborn.

SZ: An honest man?

Castrillón: He speaks out what he thinks. Williamson doesn't appears to me as someone who wants to cheat. Rather, he is an uncomplicated person who holds extreme positions: but with a simple and honest belief in them.

[...]

SZ: Cardinal Battista Re felt himself cheated by you.

Castrillón: As far as I know, he has never said this. But I know well that he has said some incautious words about me to the press. So I wrote him a letter, in which I said if anybody had known about the Williamson Holocaust-interview beforehand, it must be he alone. He was for many years in the Secretariat of the State. Today he is the head of the bishops' congregation. It is his task to watch over the bishops.

SZ: Did this scandal changed your relationship to the Pope?
Castrillón: Yes, to the good! We have worked together hand in hand, not only because he is the Vicar of Christ, but also he is a first class theologian, a defender of the Faith, he has always trust in me. This has not been changed.

[...]

SZ: Did you feel yourself hurt by the media?
Castrillón: I had a lot of experience with the media and got now a thick skin. I never asked for emendations, because it is useless. The truth will find its own way out. And the only truth is that what I just told you.

more available by "fides et forma"

Anonymous said...

Swedish Catholic said:

"The Official stated publicly something like that the Pope has lifted the excommunications of the head of the SSPX but that the body (that is the priests, seminarians and even the faithful) still is excommunicated and in schism."
---

But the official position is that the SSPX IS NOT IN SCHISM, this position was passed with the assertion of all Cardinals, as Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos stated in his interview with the SZ from Germany.

Here my translation of this passage:

"SZ: In what does your rôle consists at the reintegration of the SSPX?
Castrillón: in 2000 a dialog between Rome and the SSPX started, the then Cardinal Ratzinger followed closely this dialog. After a consistory in 2001 presided by JPII all the present cardinals voted for this process. They declared that the excommunicated brothers of SSPX are not heretical or schismatic, although they had done a schima-alike deed. As to their relationship to Vat.II they stressed the difficulties of interpretation regarding the items on religious freedom and ecumenism. The commission Ecclesia Dei, over which I presided from 2000 to Jul. of last year, was supposed to analyze this problematic, nothing more"

Jordanes said...

the Novus Ordo...a dead Rite, in which there is no life.

Claiming that the Pauline rite is invalid is not an opinion that Catholics may hold.

Anonymous said...

Although I do not put forth H.E. Bishop Williamson's theories about the holocaust, nor do I believe the SSPX does, I still can't help but asks all these outspoken critics the question, "Is holocaust denial an excomunicable offense???" I do not recall seeing that it was from my studies!!!

Crouchback said...

I am an electrician. I never said or even implied the the Novus Ordo was invalid. We electricians are careful about making such claims as they are ...Slightly....outside our competence.

But saying the Novus Ordo is a ..Dead..rite is well within the competence of bricklayers, nurses, scamps and even thieves. Ask anyone living in Scotland for instance, they just closed their last seminary a few months ago. That is because the Dead Novus Ordo is killing the faith.

In my Diocese ...Lancaster in England they are not going down without a fight. They are recruiting right now for "Sacred Dancing" classes. That is what happens when you have a dead rite, all sorts of innovations creep in. Once you have all the Lay readers, Lay Eucharistic Ministers, Married Deacons, Girl Altar servers, you soon begin to run out of ideas, that's when some genius dreamed up Liturgical Dancing. What next...I dont know, how about Naked Shamans doing drugs while Priestesses chant to the Earth Mother...???

Better that, than the 1962 missal...???

Jordanes said...

I never said or even implied the the Novus Ordo was invalid.

I know you didn't say it was invalid -- but a rite in which sacramental grace is communicated through valid sacraments cannot be a "dead" rite.

Crouchback said...

Can't be ....Dead....not even when it is murdered every day in every single parish, monastery and convent where it is celebrated..???

It is over, the Bugnini mass just doesn't work for catholics, it came from Taize....it should have stayed in Taize.

Bit of a coincidence the founder of Taize ending up murdered....like the Novus Ordo..??

Jordanes said...

If it is murdered every day, then it is either alive or undead, not dead.

In every single parish, monastery and convent where it is celebrated? Really?