Rorate Caeli

Events: Traditional Mass in Fordham,
brought to you by the Society of Jesus

Traditional Catholics in the Tri-State area should show their support for this event promoted by some members of the Society of Jesus.

The celebrant will be Fr. Stephen M. Fields, S.J., of Georgetown University, the deacon and subdeacon will be Jesuits, and most of the servers will be Jesuit scholastics.

37 comments:

Casa Santa Lidia said...

Oh. My. Goodness. I lived a stone's throw from Fordham and...never thought I would see this day. I'll expect a full report!

Anonymous said...

Mgr Henri Brincard
À propos de Medjugorje
http://www.gospa.info/pdm/edito/MgrBrincard.htm

PADRE JOZO, UN "FRANCESCANO DISOBBEDIENTE"
http://marcocorvaglia.blog.lastampa.it/mcor/la-ver.html

L'auteur Louis Bélanger s'exprime sur Medjugorje
http://forumarchedemarie.forumperso.com/discernement-f29/l-auteur-louis-belanger-s-exprime-sur-medjugorje-t2156.htm

Medjugorje: Louis Bélanger responds to comment...
http://te-deum.blogspot.com/2010/02/medjugorje-louis-belanger-responds-to.html

Fr. Hauke responds to criticism from Medjugorje supporters
http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/2010/02/fr-hauke-respon.html

Anonymous said...

Do the Jesuits have enough scholastics to field a team for a High Mass? That would require at least 10 seminarians. And I know some of the Jesuit provinces in the USA (which will be merging, consolidating soon because of a disastrous decline in numbers over the last 40 years) have not much more than 10 seminarians themselves.

Before Vatican II, the "reforms" and the "Novus Ordo" fiasco, the Jesuits has 3,500 seminarians in the USA alone. Today, for the whole USA, it's less than 200....which is still a big total considering most Orders today!!

Mariam said...

Praised be Jesus and Mary for this news!

Bernadette said...

Do they (the Jesuits) know what they're doing? Are they learning the Latin Mass or just winging it?

Jean said...

Hmmmm.....perhaps we're witnessing the turning of the tide! I won't criticize in advance, only be thankful that the Society of Jesus is on board even to this extent. God be praised, and St. Ignatius Loyola, pray for us!

God save Pope Benedict XVI! Our Lady of Victories, intercede for him!

Ponte said...

This may prove to be a kind of tipping point for the SJs. I hope that it gets a large attendance and great deal of publicity.

Anonymous said...

SPECTACULAR NEWS

I have some spectacular news esp. for American traditionalists tonight. When I read it, I nearly lost consciousness. The one U.S. diocese I always thought would never ever ever get the T.L.M. (owing to a tiny population spread over a large area) has just obtained one on the every-Sunday basis (at 12.30 p.m.). This is the first time I've ever been wrong about anything in these matters (as Jordanes knows all too well).

Incredibly, the DIOCESE OF JUNEAU now has a T.L.M. This can't be. There are only 5,000 faithful in the entire see, only one-third the population of the D. of Fairbanks, the second least-populous U.S. see. All three sees in Alaska now have the Traditional Rite of Mass every Sunday.

Does everyone realise what this means? Just imagine the potential for petitioners elsewhere: Hey, Your Excellency, if they can have one even in Juneau, why not here? We have ten times their population.

I am too stunned to write more.

P.K.T.P.

P.S. The Mass will be celebrated in a chapel of the church at Sitka. Sitka? It sounds like a place where pepole live in igloos.

Anonymous said...

"P.S. The Mass will be celebrated in a chapel of the church at Sitka. Sitka? It sounds like a place where pepole live in igloos."

NO, Sitka is of Russian origin. And believe it or not, there is (or was) a very large Russian (Orthodox) population in parts of Alaska...especially around the coast.

That's the kind of comment I'd expect from some undereducated, ignorant, beer-swilling, gun-totting red-necked bible thumper like some Bubba in Georgia or Sarah Palin tea-party people....not an educated Catholic. Here I might sound like a hypocrite, labeling Southerners...but believe me, there's hundreds of thousands of them, so I'm not far off. I've been there.

But it's like assuming that because I'm Japanese/American I must be a Buddhist. If I had ten dollars for every time when I was in college some Evangelical nutjob at the Univ. of Penn. tried to preach Jesus to me because they ASSUMED I was "pagan", I could have put up 1/4 of a semester tuition!! Not really, but you get the point....right.

Father Anthony Cekada said...

Brings to mind the old joke among liturgists:

Q. When is a Solemn High Mass celebrated by Jesuits considered a success?

A. When no one gets hurt.

M. A. said...

anon 2010 12:11,

PTKP has a certain style of writing. That's all. No one need take offense.

About the news - I am jealous. :-)

Roger C. Wilson said...

Anonymous 22 February, 2010 12:11:

"Here I might sound like a hypocrite, labeling Southerners..."

What? Just because you interject all the blather about them right into the midst of your complaint about RFPT's comment regarding Alaskans? (I don't think he's from the South.) Certainly not! You are a model of logic, coherence, and clear thinking! And one suspects this is hardly your first demonstration of that. We here in the South surely hope your views won't keep you from coming back often!

Roger C. Wilson

M. A. said...

I meant about the diocese of Juneau.

John McFarland said...

New Catholic,

Do you know anything further about what's going on here?

As an undistinguished alumnus of Fordham's cross-borough rival, Manhattan College (the second-best Catholic men's college in the Bronx, as was said in the old days), my curiosity is piqued.

I see from Fr. Fields' Georgetown writeup that he's likely 57 or 58, and his work (Rahner, transcendental Thomism in general seems to bulk large) suggests the Jesuit enthusiasms of his youth in the 70s. He's only an associate prof, which means he's certainly not among whatever constitutes the in crowd in Georgetown theology nowadays. Clearly a man with his future behind him, but nothing in the old CV that would suggest any interest in the old Mass, or in liturgy in general.

The purely Jesuit character of the Mass is also interesting; no sign of its reflecting any interest on the Fordham campus, although perhaps they want to keep that hushed up.

The Palestrina suggests that liturgical music buffs have a role (at least I hope so: Palestrina by untrained is a recipe for disaster); but matters liturgical have never been a Jesuit thing.

So it all seems more than a bit odd.

We have friends three of whose children are Fordham alums, two of whom were married at the Fordham chapel (beg pardon, University Church). My daughter is at work trying to get some of them to attend the Mass and see if they can figure out what's going on.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

Georgetown used to have a regular TLM, inaugurated post-Summorum Pontificum, but it abruptly ended in 2008 or early in 2009.

Trisha said...

This news about Alaska is excitng. I lived in Juneau in the `1980s and would love to go back, but the high cost of living there prohibits me from doing so.

Both Juneau and Sitka are totally inaccessible by road - the only way to reach them is by boat or plane. So folks in Juneau can't easily "drive" to Mass in Sitka on Sundays.

For Mr. PKTP - Juneau and Sitka are apx. 1000 miles from Seattle but are still in southern Alaska - sorry, no igloos, they're WAY further north.

Sitka is where the transfer was made from Russia to the US, and it was the territorial capital before that was moved to Juneau. Active Russian Orthodox Churches in both places.

Ken said...

Father Fields has said beautiful Masses -- including a Missa Solemnis on Pentecost Friday 2008 -- at Georgetown University in the Copley Crypt Chapel.

FYI, on Georgetown:
http://www.thehoya.com/news/student-push-reinstate-campus-latin-mass-succeeds/

Viator Catholicus said...

One this feat of Peter's chair, let us thank God for the successor of St. Peter Benedict!
His motu proprio is producing immense fruits.
Perhaps soon the "springtime" JP II so often spoke about is finally arriving!!!

Frank said...

For a bit more information about this event, go to

http://hughofcluny.blogspot.com/2010/02/fordham-jesuits-ill-offer-solemn-mass.html

Joseph Fromm said...

Way to go Fr. Fields!

Anonymous said...

Father Anthony Cekada said...
Brings to mind the old joke among liturgists:

Q. When is a Solemn High Mass celebrated by Jesuits considered a success?

A. When no one gets hurt.

Thanks, Father. I was looking for that quote here!

Curtins said...

@ John McFarland and others with cynical tones:

I understand the Jesuit's reputation, but they are not all alike. Fr. Fields is one of the best I know and he's spot on in his love for the liturgy and all things truly catholic. He is a great blessing for those of us at Georgetown who are attached to the TLM (he frequently says private masses) and we are currently attempting to establish the regular celebration of the TLM at Georgetown. He is also one of the best professors here and teaches amazing courses in theology.

You sir have never met Fr. Fields so I think you can wipe the judgement and cynicism off your face.

Let's not get so high up on our liturgical horses here because a Jesuit university is putting this together. Instead, we should be thankful to God that these young Jesuit novices and scholastics (one of whom I met and I'm not surprised he's the one pushing this) are returning to things that are traditional. We should support them, not be suspect and cynical.

JPG said...

Do not underestimate the signicance of the place and the implications of the event. this is something which may still be actively opposed by even "conservative " Catholics at a Jesuit institution(no not all jesuits are liberal wackos but many labor under a false understanding of VII). Also the Church where this will be celebrated is perfect for the TLM.
I attended Mass there during my daughter's College search. Also if memory serves correctly the choir was quite good and Palestrina may be material they can sing quite well.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps soon the "springtime" JP II so often spoke about is finally arriving!!!"

The "springtime" JP II spoke about has nothing to do with Catholic tradition, Summorum Pontificum and it's magnificent results, nor the Tridentine Latin Mass.
JP II's idea of the "new springtime" was more of the radical progressivism of Vatican II, the idea of the fabricated bizarre Masses developed by Piero Marini, inter=religious dialog, ecumenism, and the throngs and hordes of dancing, clapping, singing young people at WYD.....not of which realy has anything to do with Roman Catholicism.

Sad but true.

Jordanes said...

JP II's idea of the "new springtime" was more of the radical progressivism of Vatican II, the idea of the fabricated bizarre Masses developed by Piero Marini, inter=religious dialog, ecumenism, and the throngs and hordes of dancing, clapping, singing young people at WYD.

Actually none of those external manifestations was what John Paul II meant by "new springtime." What he meant was Churchwide spiritual renewal through radical conversion to new life in Jesus Christ. To the extent the abovementioned things may have facilitated that, or were (or appeared to be) signs of it, he was very happy with them.

John McFarland said...

Curtins,

Pretty sensitive, ain't ya?

But seriously, sir, I'm quite pleased to hear about Fr. Fields, and pretty much guessed his sincerity from the oddness of the whole thing. Whatever the particular Mass represents, it certainly isn't the enthusiastic support of the powers that be in the Company.

But it there anyone in the Company of like mind, other than the deacon and the subdeacon, who are apparently unwilling to let their names be used; or perhaps it's that Fr. Fields thus far has been unsuccessful in recruiting them.

John McFarland said...

Here's the post from the Hugh of Cluny Society blogspot:

"Fordham University Jesuits will offer a Solemn Mass in the Extraordinary Form at the high altar of the Fordham University Church next Sunday, February 28 at 2:30 pm. The celebrant will be the Rev. Stephen M. Fields, S.J., Associate Professor of Theology at Georgetown University and the priest who was instrumental in bringing the Traditional Latin Mass to Georgetown a few years ago. The deacon and subdeacon will be Jesuits, and most of the servers will be Jesuit scholastics. The Fordham University Concert Choir will sing selections by Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina. The address is 441 East Fordham Road, Bronx, NY."

Only someone who didn't know Palestrina from Rudolf Carnap would give his full name. nothing.

My office computer suddenly decided to block the Hugh of Cluny site (like the pornographers and Holocaust revisionists), but there was also a paragraph saying that the "Extraordinary Form" was offered every Monday at 9:45 a.m. in (if memory serves) a crypt chapel at Fordham. How's that for true Ignatian generosity?

John McFarland said...

Jordanes,

You say:

"What [Pope John Paul II] meant [by the "new springtime"] was Churchwide spiritual renewal through radical conversion to new life in Jesus Christ."

So apparently you beieve that His Holiness believed that such a renewal occurred after Vatican II.

Do you think that PJP II meant by such radical conversion what, say, St. Francis de Sales meant by such radical conversion?

If he did, I can't see how (1) there is anything new about it and (2) anyone could straightfacedly say that it had occurred widely after Vatican II.

So the only reasonable conclusion is that the Pope meant something different from what St. Francis meant.

Jordanes said...

So apparently you beieve that His Holiness believed that such a renewal occurred after Vatican II.

It's not a matter of what I believe. John Paul II on several occasions referred to a "new springtime" in the Church that he said had begun. He obviously believed it had begun, whether rightly or wrongly. But at other times he spoke of it as a potentiality for the near future.

Do you think that PJP II meant by such radical conversion what, say, St. Francis de Sales meant by such radical conversion?

I'm not aware of him meaning anything different.

If he did, I can't see how (1) there is anything new about it

Conversion is always old and new -- old because it is something that each soul has always been called to at every moment, and new each time a soul is converted.

and (2) anyone could straightfacedly say that it had occurred widely after Vatican II.

I don't know about "widely," but after the post-conciliar disaster, John Paul II's pontificate did see a stabilisation and the first signs of a recovery.

So the only reasonable conclusion is that the Pope meant something different from what St. Francis meant.

Your logic is faulty. That simply doesn't follow. It could be rather that the pope was merely more optimistic than the facts warranted.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

"Only someone who didn't know Palestrina from Rudolf Carnap would give his full name. nothing."

And what makes you think that, Mr. McFarland?

John McFarland said...

Mr. Palad,

Outside of history and reference books, how often does one see eminent figures -- Caesar, Cicero, Augustine, Dante, Michelangelo, Titian, Velasquez, Bach, Beethoven, etc. -- referred to by their full names?

In the liturgical music, I daresay that Palestrina qualifies as an eminent figure. So giving his full name means either that the writer didn't know much about him, or didn't expect his readers to know much about him, or both.

Jordanes said...

That's one possibility. Another explanation is that someone might prefer full proper names, or be given to formality, or might enjoy the look, sound, and feel of the name "Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina," which is, after all, a lovely name. It also may have had something to do with the overall look of the poster layout: with the full name, those two lines look better when center justified than if only the placename "Palestrina" is used.

There are several possible explanations that do not require us to assume in the total absence of evidence that "the writer didn't know much about him, or didn't expect his readers to know much about him, or both." After all, the poster designer unquestionably knew Palestrina's full name, which is more than most people know.

John McFarland said...

Mr. Palad,

I should add that the best way to dispel ignorance about Palestrina is to perform his work and publicize its performance, which is what is being done.

Whatever the "politics" of the event, that (and a fortiori the celebration of the Mass) is surely a good thing.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous deserves anonymous ... Post WWII the Society had an anomalous influx of vocations. Vocations to the Society in the U.S. for the last 20 years have been constant, at a rate of 30-50 p.a. The current ten province structure was only created 50 years ago to handle the post-WWII influx; provincials can only hear manifestations of 300-500 men annually. Stability at pre-war levels and a consolidation back to five provinces is not disastrous. There are currently between 250 and 300 men in formation in the U.S.

Anonymous said...

One can see members of the Jesuit community rehearsing live at:

http://www.fordham.edu/media/

Perhaps the Mass will be broadcast as well.

lilimarlene1 said...

I attended the Traditional Mass at Fordham, Sunday, February 28th, at 2:30 pm.

Nobody got hurt.

I am not qualified to comment with regard to whether the rubrics of the liturgy were properly executed. That said, clearly there was some clumsiness. That was shared by the parishoners. The musical accompaniment, too, had awkward moments.

But think about this. There is a marvelous exhibit of blooming orchids contained within the Botanical Gardens Conservatory directly opposite Fordham. The icy snow, flat light, and austerity of winter would never suggest such a delight housed therein a stone's throw from Manhattan.

Evidently, flowers bloom at Fordham, too!

Let us not lose confidence. Of special note, the priests homily was quite instructive. My husband, daughter and I attended and discussed it afterwards.

They were disappointed it did not reflect on the Gospel passage. They also lamented a lack of Lenten perspective. But, I argued, it was a teaching moment. He expounded on the value and benefit the Latin mass offers so that, as a practical matter, we may experience the sublime and meet our Lord through a language so thoroughly other that it commands our quiet, orders our thoughts, and disposes us to sanctifying grace, should we be so meritorius.

Anonymous said...

Thank God...the TLM is SOOOOO SACRED AND BEAUTIFUL

I think we need both Masses.


Grandma