Rorate Caeli

The Box


The red cube, according to Messa in Latino, is what is currently used as the altar in the church in the Camaldolese monastery of Montegiove, which is currently down to 7 monks and 1 nun. According to the monastery's website, Mass is offered in the church only on Sundays and feast days. Messa in Latino states that communion is always "self-service".




39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Had do hermits get liturgically whacked out? You'd think that such a physically conservative lifestyle, and intense spiritual focus, would keep men from such folly.

Anonymous said...

I guess it's an interesting clue in finding out ''what's wrong with the Church'' ... it doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to get a straightforward idea about this.

Jean said...

That is hilarious! But bearing in mind that comedy is in its essence cruelty, it's tragic at the same time. We can always pray for their conversion to common sense, but it might just be better for them to fail and get out of the way. Knowing them by their fruits, these have clearly been wasted vocations. And therein lies the greatest tragedy of all.

Anonymous said...

picture and situation could be from any number of dying religious institutes, the only difference with this one is that there is a disused true altar in the background where the choir stalls are.

Ray said...

Seven monks and one nun? No wonder...

Mr. Ortiz said...

This is a logical progression. Somewhat analogous to New England protestants narrowing down to Henry David Thoreau, alone on Walden Pond.

While I love Thoreau's writing style and observation of nature,
he represents an end-point.

As perhaps does this red box.

Anonymous said...

Pathetic.

The Camaldolese Order, which is over 1,000 years old and has a magnificent history, has collapsed since Vatican II, especially during the JP II years. Inculturation, inter-religious dialog (with Buddhists and Hindus in particular), seems to be this Order's driving force today. They have 1 monastery in India which can no longer be considered Catholic....it has inculturated so much the pagan traditions, that it is a joke to call it Catholic.

The sad thing, is that this ancient Order of now less than 90 monks world wide (and has become like many other Orders, radically liberal), will die out soon.

The good thing, is that they will take this nonsense of "The red box", with them.

Perhaps a new, traditional monastic Order can take this beautiful monastery over.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm, I have a cardboard box at home that I could spiff up with orange shag carpet, maybe they would agree to trade that beautiful altar in the back ground (see first picture)?

John said...

Thank and praise God for the demise of such religious communities that abandon sacred beauty and embrace the dictatorship of ugliness.

John McFarland said...

Mr. Palad,

In the penal times, the Irish had Mass rocks. Now the Camadolese have Mass cubes, or at least one of them.

It puts the Cranmer table, and the butcher block altar popular in the States in the 90s, quite in the shade.

Do you know what it's made of? Or why it's red, and a funny shade of red at that?

Years ago, my brother Steve and I went to the Whitney Museum in New York soon after it opened. One of the objets d'art was about a ten or twelve foot long plank, painted with bright red enamel and leaning against the wall. For all I know, it's still there. The Whitney plank was a lot better shade of red than the Camadolese cube.

Hippolytus said...

category = You couldn't make it up

Anonymous said...

"Thank and praise God for the demise of such religious communities that abandon sacred beauty and embrace the dictatorship of ugliness."

An understandable reaction, but I totally disagree. A 1,000 year old tradition of venerable service to God and His Church, must be salvaged. For the sake of the memory of thousands of holy hermits who preceded these poor misguided men of our day, pray for their conversion and renewal. Otherwise, it's like saying, "good riddance to the Carthusians." As much as I admire our new, emerging communities, we must salvage our ancient traditions. After all, the Camoldolese are not the equivalent of just another order of French teaching nuns who have run their course.

John McFarland said...

Anonymous 16:37,

They get whacked out by getting ordered by the Vatican to become more worldly, but still remain religious. Those with any sense know that that can't be done, and leave. The real losers, in every sense of the term, are all that are left. If you think you have problems, imagine that one poor nun -- and pray for her.

Anonymous said...

What an ugly church.

Van Knackular said...

ROFL!!

Timothy Mulligan said...

Well, the good thing about it is that it's portable.

Anonymous said...

What is 'ROFL'?

Anonymous said...

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."
- 1 of 7 the Borg.

Anonymous said...

"What is 'ROFL'?"

"Rolling on the floor laughing."

ToS said...

An understandable reaction, but I totally disagree. A 1,000 year old tradition of venerable service to God and His Church, must be salvaged.

No. Let it die to be reborn.

J.G.Ratkaj said...

At least the church itself seem to remain intact in its beautiful baroque decorum. I have seen much more disgusting in Austria or Germany.

Anonymous said...

"What an ugly church."

No, if you look at the photo, the Church and the original altar itself are beautiful....masterpieces to the True Mass and the Catholic tradition of all time.

What is ugly is "the red cube", and the worthless service that it symbolizes (the Novus ordo Mass)

Anonymous said...

SMASH THE BOX AND RETURN TO THE TRUE ALTER OF GOD AND RETURN TO THE MASS OF ALL TIME....GOD I pray all this nonsense in Holy mother church end s in my life time.

Dymphna said...

Down to 7 monks and one nun? Well, that's progress.

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."

I was actually considering that as the title for this post. However, my tired brain thought that it was too long and came up instead with a title as banal as the red cube.

In retrospect I should have entitled this "Red Square".

Anonymous said...

I wonder if congregants at the Mass here are waiting with bated breath to see if Carmen Miranda will pop up out of the box?

D.P.H.

Jack said...

\\SMASH THE BOX AND RETURN TO THE TRUE ALTER OF GOD AND RETURN TO THE MASS OF ALL TIME\\

And what is the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which is older than anything in the West? Chopped liver?

Since there was a time that the Pian Missal did not exist, it cannot be called "the mass of all time."

ALL Authorized Eucharistic liturgies of the Church (which is bigger than just the Roman rite), celebrated according to the rubrics, are Masses of All Time.

wheat4paradise said...

... and the worthless service that it symbolizes (the Novus ordo Mass)

I'll readily admit that the Vatican II liturgical reform has led to the "red cube" and other monstrosities and deformities. However, that doesn't justify calling the Novus Ordo Mass a "worthless service". It is not. It is the Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Don't blaspheme. Such comments add nothing to the cause of Tradition.

Anonymous said...

Wrong, Jack. You make the mistake of confusing the Missal with the Mass. Adrian Fortescue took the view that the Roman Mass is as old and as venerable than any in the East.

All the true rites hypothetically proceeded out of a common rite, although we just don't know how much variation there was by place or by celebrant in the subapostolic time. But the traditional Masses of East and West can both be called 'the Mass of all time', since they proceeded in an unbroken chain of organic development from the Mass as our Lord offered it Himself. It is the principle according to which change occurs that is crucial, not the state of the Mass at any given point.

What we have in the 1970 Mass is a disruption in that process, a revolution. Revolution is the opposite of tradition.

The Traditional Latin Mass is the Mass of All Time in the Latin Church.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Jack writes:

"ALL Authorized Eucharistic liturgies of the Church (which is bigger than just the Roman rite), celebrated according to the rubrics, are Masses of All Time."

That is bunk, Jack, and the liberals themselves admit it. To quote one of most infamous among them: the Liturgy is a permanent workshop. The New Mass represents the very principle of revolution. This is reflected in its rubrics, and esp. in what it allows. The whole idea of a 'new Mass' is anathema and contrary to a Mass of All Times. The New Mass represents a rupture. It is not the Mass of yesterday and will not be the Mass of tomorrow. It promotes the idea of infinite variation, the very opposite of the rock of stability that is God.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

"The Camaldolese Order, which is over 1,000 years old and has a magnificent history, has collapsed since Vatican II, especially during the JP II years."
I would be very sorry to see all the Camaldolese lumped into the same category. Let us recall that there are TWO branches of Camaldoli. The BENEDICTINE CAMALDOLSE, the elder branch which is altogether, now, IMHO, a disgrace to the monastic life; and those edifying CAMALDOLESE hermits of MONTE CORONA, the reformed branch founded by Bl. Paul in the 1500's. These latter must not be lumped in with the former; they live as small groups of hermits without the Benedictine cenobium and have holy monasteries, even if with the NOM. The Benedictine branch of Camaldolese in BIG SUR California could not hold a candle to the Monte Corona hermits of Holy Family Hermitage in New Hampshire. This is only a small point but nobody simply says "the Franciscans" when there are branches. And it is a bit of a shame to say "the Camaldolese" when there are two very distinct groups, as different as chalk and cheese.

Anonymous said...

"The Camaldolese Order, which is over 1,000 years old and has a magnificent history, has collapsed since Vatican II, especially during the JP II years."
I would be very sorry to see all the Camaldolese lumped into the same category. Let us recall that there are TWO branches of Camaldoli. The BENEDICTINE CAMALDOLSE, the elder branch which is altogether, now, IMHO, a disgrace to the monastic life; and those edifying CAMALDOLESE hermits of MONTE CORONA, the reformed branch founded by Bl. Paul in the 1500's. "

This posting is true.

The OLDER Camaldolese branch is the radical liberal hippy-monk branch...a disgrace to their holy tradition and heritage. THey are down to barely 90 monks world wide.
The Big Sur Camaldolese Monastery is a bastion of aged hippies still stuck in the liturgical nonsense of Vatican II and the 1960's. That place will be closed I am sure within afew years, since they are down to less than 20 monks, and all are over 60 except for 2-3.

The stricter branch (Monte Corona), unfortunarly only has 60 monks world-wide, but is much more true to Catholic tradition.

The older branch will definitly go extinct, and so will their liturgical bizarity.

Anonymous said...

I have checked the website of the New Camaldoli Hermitage of Big Sur, Calif.
http://www.contemplation.com/Hermitage/home.html

Well the Prior and the friars of that community don't all look very old...
So even if this branch of the order is down to 90 members, I think it has still long years to live. Maybe it will be useful time for the friars to get reconciled with traditional practices and orthodoxy, and encourage solid vocations.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:16 says some interesting things, including the comment about not stereotyping groups and painting them with the same brush and by giving the example "nobody simply says 'the Franciscans' when there are branches".

I agree. However, it is so horribly sad when by and large (the Franciscans for example)they behave much the same no matter where you go.

Thank you V2.

TOSF

Anonymous said...

I, for one, am not surprised. I spent a *brief* spell in St.Hugh's Charterhouse in England in 1995, and the similarities with this picture are striking: beautiful sanctuary ignored, a block of sorts in exactly the same position. To be fair, I hear the previous arrangement has now been replaced with a table!

For the liturgically interested - Holy Communion under both kinds had also been inserted into the Carthusian Rite at St. High's.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if congregants at the Mass here are waiting with bated breath to see if Carmen Miranda will pop up out of the box?

D.P.H.

No. Carmen is the nun.

Anonymous said...

"No. Carmen is the nun."

Anon:
ha ha, very "fruity"

D.P.H.

Anonymous said...

Rubrics Cube

Timothy Huw said...

Holy Communion was "given" self-service style at a Mass in the Servite Chapel, Rue Washington, in Brussels. It seemed this was the norm there. The Servite community has now ceased to function here.