Rorate Caeli

InstructionUniversae Ecclesiae on Friday

The Holy See Press Office announces that the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae of the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei", on the application of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, will be made public on Friday, May 13th, and will be published on that afternoon (May 14th edition of L'Osservatore Romano). The Instruction will be published in its Latin typical version, and in Italian, English, French, German, Spanish, and Portuguese translations.

(Note for the image: the Traditional Mass was the only Mass Blesseds Jacinta and Francisco Marto ever knew.)

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was born on Friday May 13th.

And will be ordained transitional deacon this following sunday.

What joy i feel at this.

God bless good pope benedict.

New Catholic said...

Congratulations on your diaconal ordination, Anon. Sem.! May God grant His Church many holy priests!

NC

Edgar said...

!!!Alabado sea el Señor en los Cielos y la tierra!!!

New Catholic said...

Well... let's wait for the public text before we can celebrate.

Laus Deo semper.

bp said...

It would be interesting if they are fast enough to publish this Instruction before Rome will be destroyed by an earthquake (ask Google for "Raffaele Bendandi"). ;-)

Cruise the Groove. said...

Hopefully this clarification will make a difference in diocese's that have an Ordinary who does not put restrictions on priests offering the TLM, but there are hardly any priests that want to learn and offer it.
Because, at least in North America, there are a lot of diocese in this situation.

Mall said...

Universae Ecclesiae is a VERY promising title: this is not just for a few odd individuals, but for the whole Church. The link with Fatima is obvious, and excellent. But may I be allowed a slight bit of superstition, and point out that this Friday 13th may be a very dark day indeed for the liberals!

Luka said...

Deo Gratias!!

I cannot wait to finaly get my eyes on that much-waited document. I am just affraid of one thing: too much expectations often results with big dissapointment.

And we all have most huge expectations of Universae Ecclesiae (what a beautiful name!) Universal or non-universal, I'll not rest untill every Catholic shall have the opportunity to attend TLM every day, in his own parish. Everything else is a compromise. Talking about big expectations :)

Anonymous said...

May 13th is a nice recognition or overture to Trad's, especially the SSPX's, preoccupation, indeed obsession, with Fatima.

Anonymous said...

Is the title apt? It is presumably not for the entire Church but just the Roman Church, no? This document likely has little to no relevance for those non-Roman Churches in communion with the Holy See, except insofar as it is ecumenically positive for relations with, for example, the Orthodox.

Ben C.

Knight of Malta said...

"...the Traditional Mass was the only Mass Blesseds Jacinta and Francisco Marto ever knew."

Indeed! It was the only Mass Saint Therese of Lisieux ever prayed or Saint Padre Pio ever offered.

Anonymous said...

The traditional mass Blessed Jacinta and Francisco only knew could be said of us if the Popes had obeyed Our Lady in 1960 by revealing the 3rd Secret and Consecrating Russia to her Immaculate Heart.

Anonymous said...

One blog calls the new document a no-hitter but not a perfect game. Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!

Matthew said...

One blog calls the new document a no-hitter but not a perfect game. Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!

For non-US readers of the blog - it is worth noting that a "no-hitter" is a reasonably rare and quite impressive accomplishment for a pitcher in baseball... and nearly always means a big win for his team.

And also, pitchers who pitch "no-hitters" earlier in their career often succeed in a "perfect game" later on.

Deo Gratias!

Anonymous said...

Universae Ecclesiae hmmmn...Universal Church, eh?

"In the Universal Church the Mass codified by St. Pius V in 1570 remains a treasure of immeasurable proportions and all bishops of the Latin Rite are urged to ensure its freedom to be celebrated often, indeed, at least once per Sunday and holyday of obligation using the most recent liturgical books in effect in 1962."

"No restrictions are to be imposed on this venerable liturgy by any of those currently serving as diocesan Ordinaries or Religious Superiors and they shall endeavor to celebrate it themselves whenever feasible. Churches, chapels and oratories of the Roman Rite, if not already configured, shall be configured to allow for the celebration of this Mass as soon as possible."

"By virtue of the His Apostolic Authority, Pope Benedict XVI hereby grants to the Society of St. Pius X worldwide papal jurisdiction for the celebration of sacraments according to the liturgical books in effect in 1962. The bishops of the Society will constitute the Head of a new Worldwide Apostolic Administration of St. Pius X for the celebration of all sacraments according to those same liturgical books and may accept as members of the Aministration priests with valid orders currently adhering to those books or ones previously in use."

Yah, I know, what have I been drinking? But, you see, if it can be done in Brazil, it can be done worldwide and the jurisdiction question would be rendered mute by papal edict. It would also serve to put the entire Roman Rite on notice that the TLM enjoys preeminent status in the Church and no obstacles are to be placed in its path.

LtCol Paul E. Haley, USAF(Ret)

M. A. said...

Universae Ecclesiae is a VERY promising title: this is not just for a few odd individuals, but for the whole Church."
__________________

Yes, indeed, I cannot wait. Just one week ago, a certain 'liturgical coordinator' - no friend of the TLM - kept insisting that SP was ONLY for those attached to the Tridentine Mass!

For this document to be released on the 13, is certainly a signal grace to the Church.

New Catholic said...

Sports analogies... no comment...

John McFarland said...

Dear Anonymous 14:23,

What the SSPX, many of its faithful, and many other people believe is that the Blessed Mother told Sister Lucy that if Russia were consecrated to the Immaculate Heart, things would get a lot better, for a while.

It is not obsessive to push hard for something good in the face of resistance and/or indifference.

If, on the other hand, those of us who believe in the authenticity of Sister Lucy's vision are wrong, we are wrong, and not obsessive.

So may I offer a suggestion.

Figure out your real issue, and spit it out.

Suburbanbanshee said...

Actually, wouldn't the kids at Fatima have heard Mass in the Rite of Braga? Or was that just a big city thing?

(Serious question, not just pokin' at ya....)

Cruise the Groove. said...

"Sports analogies... no comment..."

I shall comment,
They are completely inapropriate and not descriptive of a Church document at law whatsoever.

Not even a close analogy.

New Catholic said...

No, Suburban.

Fred said...

"...especially the SSPX's, preoccupation, indeed obsession, with Fatima."

I dunno about that.

The liberals had dismissed Fatima, and then JPII claimed Our Lady's intercession on the attempt on his life, and tied it to Fatima. Then he twice did a consecration (correctly, or not). The liberals still dismissed Fatima. Then JPII released (or not) the Third Secret. The liberals were certain then that Fatima was - and forever would be - irrelevant. Then this Pope went to Fatima, and insisted on its relevance. And, now, on the release of a document of universal significance, he purposely ties it to Fatima by its release date.

Is the SSPX preoccupied or even obsessed with Fatima, or do some have a pathological need to dismiss it?

Anonymous said...

Cruise the Groove writes wisely here but one might add to this. The title of this Instruction is most promising given the extremely unequal distribution of Latin Masses throughout the world, something, one might notice, that Raymond Cardinal Burke commented on recently. Hence I predict that His Eminence was hinting that this Instruction will attempt to address that problem. One way of doing so might be to establish some legal norms about numbers of Latin Masses per see. Such a provision would be helpful but likely inadequate. It would be too easy for bishops simply to claim that they lacked the needed resources and manpower (given a 'shortage of priests') to comply.

The other way is additional jurisdiction. Pray, brethren.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Ben C.:

Universal means everywhere, not exclusively everywhere. The Latin Church has jurisdictions everywhere on earth, except in the Antarctic. Afghanistan was, until recently, the only exception but we now have a mission sui juris there.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

On the date:

While the date of publication is significant, if we are hearing about this now and know the title, what is the date of signature? Was it 5th May, the Feast of St. Pius V?

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Feast of St. Robert Bellarmine and Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament on the old calendar.

Delphina

Anonymous said...

My comment is referring to the feasts of May 13th. The comment follows after Mr. Perkins' and is not to be read as an answer to his question.

Another disclaimer by..............

Delphina

benjoyce said...

M.A. said,

"For this document to be released on the 13, is certainly a signal grace to the Church."

I agree. The blue bookmark from TAN books titled. 15 Promises to those who pray the Rosary every day.

1 (1st) "I will send you signal graces"

SSPX performed a couple of Million + Rosary campaigns and one recently. Hopefully the release will give the forces of Modernism a good wack on the head,and the release date (Fatima date) fits well as this being a "signal grace" from the BVM

Anonymous said...

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!


Barbara

Anonymous said...

Like so many, the Latin Mass was the only Mass I kndew for my first 18 years.
Then came the awful purge, the stripping of our churches and the virtual banishment of everything and anything Latin.
I was stunned. My mother and grandmother openly wept.
It was a terrible time.

Anonymous said...

Here is what Raymond Cardinal Burke said in his interview published on 5th May:

It is evident that the application of Summorum Pontificum has not taken place in a uniform fashion in the Church universal. In some places, its application has even faced resistence by the part of those who claim not to understand its goals and who defend that the motu proprio cannot be applied before the publication of the Instruction related to its application. I hope that the Instruction will be published shortly, so that the motu proprio may be applied in a more universal and more uniform way, according to the profound pastoral solicitude of our Holy Father for the sacred liturgy."


Now compare this text with the title released today. This is what Pope Benedict XVI (there being no such person as 'Pope Benedict') is obviously intending.

We might now ask ourselves how a universal application of S.P. might be achieved. It is a good topic for speculation here. After all, merely telling the bishops that he wants it applied evenly throughout the world is not likely to have any effect. We all remember what Cardinal Darmaatmadja of Djarkarta wrote in 2007: it doesn't apply to Indonesia! Well, that Cardinal has now retired. That's one step in the right direction. A few more are needed.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Picking up on my last threat regarding this new initiative of Benedict the Sixteenth (there being no such person as 'Pope Benedict'), it seems to me that only a universal particular church or a universal ordinariate or a series of regional structures of these kinds, can fit the presumed purpose. What cannot 'do the trick' would be a personal prelature (unless there were a specific exemption from Canon 297, and even then, it would not be flexible enough), or merely a norm at law for the bishops to defy. Really, what is needed is a mechanism that frees the ancient Mass from the malice of the bishops in many cases, and the lack of resources of other bishops who are kinder. To be fair, it is hard for many bishops to arrange Latin Masses for very small groups of traditionalists when they lack adequate manpower and resources to meet present pastoral demands.

Any new structure must afford its clerics a real freedom of movement. They will still need to consult and work with the bishops because the bishops have de facto control over most of the sacred spaces at which our Masses must be offered. As time wears on, we shall gain more and more of our own churches and chapels but this could be a very long work.

Sir Winston Churchill wrote, "Give us the tools, and we shall do the job". Well, Holy Father, please give us the tools and we shall see to it that the ancient Mass be preserved in every part of the world, where it can enrich the spiritual lives of all. Our Mass is not only for those who adhere to it; it is for all faithful Catholics.

P.K.T.P.

Cruise the Groove. said...

We have only two every Sunday TLM's in our diocese at very out of the way locations.

One Mass may get 70-80 people at it and the other 10-20.
This is in a diocese of 400,000 Catholics.

We pray that the clarifications opens this up a great deal.

The SSPX has a strong presence though.
Maybe if the clarification does not give us more regularised TLM'S then the SSPX is the future of many dioceses.
We shalll see.

Anonymous said...

@PKTP

If the date of signature is May 5th, it would align with the Feast of Pope St Pius V, which would be a very obvious connection to the Mass of the Council of Trent.

But there still would be a connection with Fatima. For it was on May 5th, 1917 that Pope Benedict XV prayed that Our Lady would end the "suicide of Europe", which was followed 9 days later with Her first apparition at Fatima.

Either way, the fact that the release will take place on May 13th is, in my view, a gesture from the Holy Father to the SSPX's 12 million rosary Crusade for the Collegial Consecration of Russia last year. It has to be. No one in the Vatican Secretariat would dream of re-awakening any kind of a hint of Fatima devotion.

Proudly obsessed and in love with Our Lady of Fatima,

Neophyte

Patrick said...

PKTP said "Universal means everywhere, not exclusively everywhere. The Latin Church has jurisdictions everywhere on earth, except in the Antarctic".

Correct, PKTP, and this precisely a sad fact, as Latin Catholics throughout the world always have their own local ordinary, whereas non-Latin Catholics are often subject to the local Latin ordinary.

This situation is a case of double standards. It does little to convince non-Latins that the Catholic Church is not just Latin but reallly catholic, i.e. universal.

Anonymous said...

some posts are truly hilarious. Have we an idea of what the 13th of May is in Chinese calendar and if there is a link with the birthdate of Bp Fellay's grandmother ...

calm down folks, don't get over-excited and wait for the real document.
It will be time to debate on its precise terms.

We could also keep in mind that present bishops will find all possible twisted ways not to implement it. Summorum Pontificum is crystal-clear and has been bluntly ignored by a great deal of bishops around the world.
Like they did with :
1984 indult
1988 motu proprio
2007 2nd motu proprio
and now 2011.

Alsaticus

Stu said...

Now we are getting worked up because someone dared to use a sports analogy in describing the document?

Metaphors, analogies or even allegories are never perfect in their comparison but they do help people understand.

Anonymous said...

Father Zuhlsdorf claims on his website that he is one of the happy few who read the instruction before its official publication.
And hes the one who used the "no hitter" expression to describe it...
And he put up a pic of our beloved Pope with champagne as a sign that we should be prepared to celebrate on friday...

Anonymous said...

Dear Alsaticus:

You must have been a real party pooper as a child. Let me guess: you were the little boy who broke his brother's toy truck on his birthday!

As you say yourself: read before judging. But light speculation is not a terrible sin. The Pope may well grant a juridical structure. If he does, the bishops may still have power to obstruct, but not authority to forbid. That could be huge. So be positive for once!

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Dear P.K.T.P.,

While I agree that universal does not necessarily mean exclusively everywhere, in the context of ecclesial and papal pronouncements universal takes on a very special meaning. For instance, papal declarations can qualify as infallible if and only if they are addressed to the universal Church (Romans, Ukrainians, Armenians, etc.); were a pope to issue a declaration to only Romans it would be "universal" in the "everywhere but not exclusively everywhere" sense yet not in the ecclesial sense and therefore would be ineligible for infallibility. There are of course many other examples. Hence, since this document will presumable apply to only us Romans, I maintain the first word of the title is not quite apt.

Best,

Ben C.

Anonymous said...

Neophyte:

I agree with you and I'm a Fatimist myself. Still, I will look forward to knowing the date of the signature.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Neophyte:

You may have hit on more. If there is a connexion to the Society's Rosary Crusade, the document might have something in it for the S.S.P.X as well. Dare we to hope for this? Yes!


Patrick:

Nothing is stopping the Eastern Catholics from having very large structures. The Armenians realise this and have some *huge* sees. They have one that covers over 30 countries in Central and South America. Of course, Armenians are known for thier high intelligence. They are much smarter than most of us, I'm afraid. Still, the Ukrainians and others could learn from their example.

P.K.T.P.

Martin said...

This is a great sign indeed, and the name of this document sheds some light to what is to come.
I am not sure where I read what I will coment but it was a while ago that Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos had made a statement in a conference London maybe? saying that the Holy Father wanted the Tradidional Liturgy to be offered along with the Novus Ordo in every parish of the world. That would be nice, that way I would not have to travel an hour and a half to attend Mass every sunday and thats just one way and time almost doubles on holy days of obligation because Mass is in the evenings and I get caught in rush hour traffic, when I could be going to the church thats within walking distance from my house.

Although I dont think I would change that for anything, neither would I leave the church I go to with priests of the FSSP and compromise to go to a Mass with a priest that will problably have to learn how to say it correctly but not for love but by obligation and not receive sound catholic doctrine.

Anonymous said...

"Indeed! It was the only Mass Saint Therese of Lisieux ever prayed or Saint Padre Pio ever offered."

Prior to the manufactured Novus Ordo, wasn't the TLM the only Mass that Father Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) offered?

Anonymous said...

Dear Ben C.:

You must be kidding. We only have an incipit and you already find that it is inapt?

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. All the rites of the Church are universal, even if all the corresponding jurisdictions are not. Liturgies are larger and more comprehensive than are dioceses and eparachies. That's why Eastern liturgies can sometimes be offered under Roman jurisdiction and, in very rare cases in practice, vice versa. Again, all the Rites of the Church have universal application and importance; they are all present at least implicitly in all the jurisdictions of the church of whatever proper rite.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Martin:

If you knew the numbers, you would not make such insanely wild statements. A T.L.M. in every parish? The Pope is more likely to send $10 million directly to my bank account before breakfast tomorrow. Where would you find the priests?

A minimum of one every-Sunday T.L.M. per diocese plus more where parochial groups ask for them: that would be reasonable and achievable, implemented over the next fifty years. Look, please don't make us look like maniacs. Others read this blog and will make fun of us if you keep this up.

P.K.T.P.

Jack O'Malley said...

Dear Mr. Peter K. T. Perkins,

Whilst I agree with your resolute advocacy in behalf of the TLM and indeed share it, I am appalled at your facile generalization about Armenians and Ukrainians.

As it turns out, I knew quite of a number of Armenian Catholics and Orthodox (Monophysites in the old manner of speaking, Miaphysites in the more recent) as well as Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox as a consequence of my study of Slavic languages and cultures. To be clear, among my teachers were a couple of Armenian professors who had fled the Soviet Union.

I think that the distribution of intelligence among those people is about on a par with that of the Canadians. Perhaps even that of the Americans. ;-) I surmise that upon sober reflexion you shall want to qualify your characterisation of our Eastern brothers and sisters in Christ.

Да благословит вас Бог и хранит вас Богородица Дева. Keep up the good work for the True Mass.

El Juan said...

All this fuss about the date it was signed... I bet it was signed on Divine Mercy Sunday. (Just kidding..)

Anonymous said...

Dear P.K.T.P.,

> You must be kidding. We only have an incipit and you already find that it is inapt?

What can I say? I'm a true trad and thus can always find something to grumble about!

Romanae vel Latinae vel Romae vel
Urbis Ecclesiae et cetera sed non Universae!

Ben C.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. O'Malley:

There is no way the average Canadian has half the brains of the average Armenian. I ought to know. I'm a Canadian myself. The Ukrainians? I know many of them. They are smart and good people but, let's face it, Armenians are smarter than are most people. That's why they do so well in business.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

As you say yourself: read before judging. But light speculation is not a terrible sin. The Pope may well grant a juridical structure. If he does, the bishops may still have power to obstruct, but not authority to forbid. That could be huge. So be positive for once!

P.K.T.P.

Dear P.K.T.P.,

I haven't talked about "sin". Just pointed out that after an exaltation, a frenzy of wild speculations, the outcome could provoke a ... sharp depression.

When you don't expect a miracle, there is no reason to be utterly disappointed.

As far as the leaks have revealed, there is no global structure in sight (your "toy" is not broken, it's not yet on the shelf). Plus several maneuvers to undermine the existing S.P. within the Curia (and backed by some episcopates naturally) took place. We had an international petition to counter this insidious weakening of S.P., remember ?

The true surprise will be : are we going a step backward, a step forward or half backward/half forward in the present frame.
And no giant step more one inch or two.

The last decades do not provide ground for exaltation... more observing a case of slow, very slow progress.
Naturally if a miracle happens May 13 or 14, I'll be here to rejoice. If ...

Alsaticus

benjoyce said...

"Implemented over the next 50 years"?

"one per diocese"?

It will happen a lot more than that and quicker. Why,? Due to the presence of the Holy Spirit. Miracles will happen, because God is there. An as the Book of Revelations says, "all nations will flock to it"

This is why manifestations of the BVM have been happening all over the world. There is a plan and it's from God. It's not ours."Implemented over the next 50 years"?

"one per diocese"?

It will happen a lot more than that and quicker. Why,? Due to the presence of the Holy Spirit. Miracles will happen, because God is there. An as the Book of Revelations says, "all nations will flock to it"

This is why manifestations of the BVM have been happening all over the world. Too bad the trads and SSPX shun these manifestations. They just don't get it. But they will in a few years I bet. There is a plan and it's from God. It's not ours.

Connie Summers said...

Cruise the Grove said: "Maybe if the clarification does not give us more regularised TLM'S then the SSPX is the future of many dioceses."

God forbid! The SSPX has no future until they return to full communion with Rome.

M. A. said...

"Too bad the trads and SSPX shun these manifestations."
_______________

I believe you are referring to Medjugorje. Yes, we shun that like the diabolical hoax that it it. I'm glad you've noticed.

Henry said...

Cruise: "One Mass may get 70-80 people at it and the other 10-20.
This is in a diocese of 400,000 Catholics."


This says to me that in your diocese, as in mine, there may be more priests who want to celebrate the TLM, but not enough people who want to attend it.

"The problem, dear folks, lies not in our pope, bishops, or priests . . . but in ourselves."

Dan said...

In my diocese there are numerous people who are completely unaware of SP, and I suspect that is the case elsewhere in the Catholic world. After the initial flurry of news on 07/07/07 there came a deafening silence.

In most diocese in America (a country one poster rather laughably called "more intelligent" than others...boy has HE got the wrong number!) the policy of the Bishops is containment and ghettoizing. In spite of SP's clear and unequivocal statement to the Bishops to butt out they have nevertheless grabbed hold of the reins and are making sure that this ancient Mass will only be said in ONE parish per city. Period. They want to contain the damage by ghettoizing this Mass. That is their policy.

I have no idea whatsoever what is coming tomorrow in this Instruction, but if it is not enforced like SP is not enforced then the status quo will likely remain in place. Please God I am wrong.

I mention these things to some of those here who think that one Mass in one parish in one city is enough for the present. It's an opinion, but not one I share. There is only one way to achieve a goal, and that is to advance. And in this case that means we - you and I - have to go to various parishes and see what we can do to convince the priests that they can fit an ancient Mass into their schedules at least once a month, and that we can help them with training videos, access to trained altar servers, organize choirs, etc. And we have to keep reminding people that SP did, in fact, happen; if they don't know, they wont come.

It can be done. We should NEVER be satisfied with one mass in one parish in one city.

ncstevem said...

Henry,

I think the time will come when priests will begin to celebrate the TLM more & more. Over time, the NO crowd will have fewer and fewer options to go to for Mass other than a TLM.

The priest on the other blog has written that he estimates better than 50% of current seminarians in the US have a desire to celebrate the TLM. If true, The VII crowd won't be able to hold back numbers like that forever.

Anonymous said...

In regards to my previous post on this thread allow me to say that it is one opinion of what Pope Benedict XVI could do with one stroke of his pen to put the entire matter of jurisdiction for the SSPX, traditional Catholic orders and independent groups to rest.

Suspensions previously levied against the SSPX would immediately be overridden by papal decree. The bishops of the SSPX and other bishops appointed to the Administration would manage the Administration without infringing on the authority of local Ordinaries. The authority line, if you will, would be directly from the Administration bishops to the Holy Father himself. The Ecclesia Dei Commission would no longer be necessary.

So, this is an appeal to Rome to consider this approach and do what is necessary to achieve it, if not now, then hopefully soon because the salvation of souls depends upon it. The Latin Church, right now, is fractured and only insane persons would deny that fact. Its wounds are public and festering and this would begin the process of healing those wounds.

It by no means is meant to disparage or diminish the authority or jusdiction of other valid rites and structures of the Church by giving worldwide jurisdiction by papal decree to the Apostolic Administration of St. Pius X (which does not now exist but could be established in the document). What it would do is say: "the TLM is recognized as legitimate wherever and whenever it is requested" assuming sufficient resources are available.

Of course, the document has already been prepared and we have no way of knowing if any such provisions are included. But if Rome wants unity, this is one way to achieve it. Does it put to rest all the doctrinal disagreements between Traditionalists and Modernists? No, but it provides the means for these to be settled, quietly and with good intentions, by both parties as normal business rather than by exception.

What about the SSPX? Would they accept such an arrangement? My answer is that they have no reason not to accept it as long as it is by papal decree and there is no possibility of modernist intervention by bishops out to scuttle the TLM and the beliefs attendant to it. The Administration could serve as the focal point for submission of dubias on all matters of doctrinal disagreement.

However, I'm a realist after all and I know that one thing is missing from such a scenario - that is good will by all parties. A problem that has festered and grown over the course of 50 some odd years will not suddenly be solved without that good will. Polemics must cease and reason must prevail but, above all, the aid of the Blessed Mother and the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, must be solicited for this to work.

LtCol Paul E. Haley, USAF(Ret)

Anonymous said...

Dear Henry,

Might I encourage you to cultivate some Divine Hope in your spiritual life.

I offer an example.

AT St Mary Immaculate Parish in Thornhill (the Greater Toronto Area) a Wed 2pm TLM began to be offered 2 weeks or so before Lent started this year.

We started off with about 20 people.

By Easter Wednesday, we had a house of about 100.

Sure, it takes sunshine and rain to get a plant growing. But when people see the TLM they can't help, if they hav a modicum of Catholic faith in their souls, be drawn to it.

Sincerely, Neophyte

Henry said...

Dear Neophyte,

Thanks for your good wishes. But you probably misread my situation. My parish has a daily TLM. A Sunday TLM in an adjacent parish has a congregation about the same size as yours. However, if in our sparsely populated area we had the Catholic population that you are able to draw from in the Toronto area, by proportion we would have thousands attending our TLMs.

Within ready driving distance of me there are five parishes with priests who all would like to celebrate the TLM regularly, but just not enough TLM lay to go around. To divine hope we have added lots and lots of hard work and "talent, time, and treasure" in attempting to recruit more interest.

I was simply referring to the fact (in areas that I am familiar with) that there is proportionally more interest in the TLM among dynamic young priests than among ordinary Catholics, especially those of certain generations. The latter, not the former, and not bishops, is what restricts TLM growth right now.

Cruise the Groove. said...

"God forbid! The SSPX has no future until they return to full communion with Rome."

Once the excommunications were lifted on the only people who they applied to, the four bishops, then they were in communion with the Church.
Thus the terms...
You must be confusing communion with canonical regularity, which are drastically different.
The SSPX offer a Catholic Mass, therefore they are in communion with the Church.
One is either in communion or not.
There is no "partial communion".
Just like there is no partial pregnancy.
We pray for the SSPX priests to be canonically regularised soon.

Cruise the Groove. said...

"This says to me that in your diocese, as in mine, there may be more priests who want to celebrate the TLM, but not enough people who want to attend it."

Henry,

No, My point was the reason there are so few that assist at the two every Sunday TLM'S is that they are in way out of the way towns, far distant from the population centres of the diocese.

One of the reasons that I know this is that the TLM is offered once per month in a church in the capital city and there are close to 200 in attendance, at minimum, every time it is offered.
The people want it there every week and have petitioned the Bishop and priests for it but for whatever reason he only permits it once per month.
If the Mass was offered every Sunday I would bet dollars to donuts there would be standing room only.
It is not the peoples fault, it is the clergys fault for not listening to the people and making the effort to feed their flock.

So the people who are attached to the TLM go to the SSPX chapel.

Cruise the Groove. said...

I just read Fr Zuhlsdorf "undisclosure" assesment of the clarification, and he does not paint a rosy picture of it.
He calls it defensive and it sounds more like a holding pattern measure that will have no effect in the majority of parishes in commanding that the TLM be offered with more frquency.

He has read it and it does not sound good.
I could be wrong, but Fr does not paint an encouraging picture.

Jordanes551 said...

No, Fr. Zuhlsdorf never calls it "defensive," and it is a complete falsehood that "he does not paint a rosy picture of it." You're definitely wrong -- he paints a fairly encouraging picture. Here is the heart of his commentary today:

*****

Again, to use my sports analogy from the divinely-favored game of baseball, this document is not at the level of a perfect game, but it is a no-hitter. For analogies with cricket, results vary. Perhaps the follow-on? The point is that, while a no-hitter is really good and fairly uncommon, a team whose pitcher has a no-hitter can still lose. It’s ultra-rare, but it has happened.

To use another analogy, in the television advertisements of pharmaceutical companies, when they desire to show you the effect of some cure using animation, they always leave a tiny representation of the problem remaining. They don’t claim that that the cure is 100%.

Universae Ecclesiae won’t smooth all the obstacles thrown before those who desire the older, traditional forms (and all that goes with them). It will, however, smooth many of the obstacles.

When it comes to the Holy See’s juridical documents, everything depends on the willingness of the Holy See actually to implement them. The Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” can waste this no-hitter if they simply sit on their hands and dither. But it was ever so. Nihil novi.

Be, therefore, of good cheer. Many of the traditional mind will be happy with this while all of the liberal bent will be irritated.

While I suspect that there was no conscious effort to associate this document with the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima, it nevertheless is being issued on the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima. It strikes me that when it comes to Our Mother and all that had to do with Fatima, Divine Providence seems to have a heavier hand.

Cruise the Groove. said...

Jordanes,

The impression that I get from Fr Zuhlsdofs commentary is decidedly negative.
We shall see what it says on the morrow, and I will get back.

New Catholic said...

I believe people should not have high expectations: the greatest act, and the highest legislative act, is Summorum Pontificum itself.

Early reviews of anything tend to be misleading, if in unwittingly.

NC

Cruise the Groove. said...

Jordanes,

A no hitter is a defensive "victory" usually.

Jordanes551 said...

And yet Father Zuhlsdorf still never said it is "defensive." Whether it is or isn't, he didn't call it that. And if you think, "Be, therefore, of good cheer," is decidedly negative, then perhaps you might need some antidepressants.

Louis E. said...

The Novus Ordo was likely the only Mass Blessed Chiara Luce Badano ever knew...beware that the TLM being "the Mass of all the canonized saints" may not be eternal.

So how about a look at the Instruction now that it has been issued?