Rorate Caeli

PRAY FOR THE POPE + PRAY FOR THE POPE

What is afoot? This crescendo of open dissent, unseen in years in this magnitude, this shameful silence of most in the Curia and in the hierarchy, these attacks coming from governments and media, are these a coincidence? Be it for material or supernatural reasons (or both), the Vicar of Christ is under attack. One would think that an 84-year-old man would be spared all of this if only out of respect for his age, if not for his office. We must stand with Peter, we must pray for him now more than ever.


63 comments:

Jack said...

I pray for the Pope, Patriarch, and Bishop by name.

I'm also sure I'm not the only one.

Catholic Defender said...

Count me in. Let's join our voices and urge every Catholic to pray for the Pope. Thanks for reminding us.

Cruise the Groove. said...

Almighty God defend Benedict XVI our Holy Father.

Jacob said...

Are there any special prayers out there for calling upon St. Michael as the Pope's guardian angel?

Anonymous said...

Count me in, too.

St. Michael the Archangel defend him in the day of battle......

Barbara

Hans Coessens said...

I stand with Peter!

Anonymous said...

O God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ,
pour out an abundance of the grace of Your Holy Spirit
upon Pope Benedict XVI and Patriarch Teoctist,
upon those accompanying them and the Churches represented:
may their visit be yet another stepping stone towards the fulfillment of
Your Son's prayer: that all may be one!
Father, thank You for this gift on the verge of a new millennium.
Thank You for the courage and faith that prevailed for their visit to take place.
Thank You for the vision of those who, despite all obstacles,
pursue this holy cause.
Quiet the criticism, inspire the seekers, encourage the young, and
comfort those who, for the sake of the Name, suffered so much for so long.
Let the Glory of Christ Risen shine forth.
Let the Church be renewed and reconciled.
Father, let their visit bear rich fruit: to the Praise of Your Glory.
Mary, Mother entrusted to us by Christ on His Cross, warm the hearts of
the Pope and the Patriarch and all with your motherly love:
the family's hearth.
Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit: unto ages of ages.
Amen.

rodrigo said...

Sometimes the post-conciliar Church feels like an elaborate staging of "King Lear", with traditional Catholics playing the part of Cordelia.

Prayers for the Holy Father.

Anonymous said...

I must have missied something... who is Patriach Teoctist?

Mr. Ortiz said...

Cordelia is an apt metaphor.

Truth, virtue, holiness in this fallen world will always be under attack from somewhere.

But this fallen world is also the site of the Redemption (John 3:14).

I pray for the Holy Father, for all his intentions, for his collaborators, and for his safety.

Woodlawn said...

Praying for the Pope every day.

May the Lord preserve him and give him life; and make him blessed upon the earth; and deliver him not up to the will of his enemies.

LeonG said...

There is Shakesperean parallel in the situation though most certainly what has been done, on this occasion, can always be undone.

LeonG said...

My prayer is always that the pope will once again take up his crown and rule as monarch, The Roman Catholic Church - we have been virtually leaderless for 50 years. May he oust the secretariat of state. Amen.

Anonymous said...

NC, what did I write that was wrong that you didn't publish my comment counting me in?

Delphina

Anonymous said...

His Holiness is "Peter" and I too stand with him and pray for him.

Anonymous said...

I pray for the Pope every single day. I pray that he will do his job or die trying. Isn't that what a Pope should do? We've been hearing for years how the Popes have been prevented from acting effectively. Time to trust in God and DO SOMETHING!!! A Loyal Reader

Anonymous said...

Dear St. Joseph, Protector of Holy Church, inspire your namesake Joseph, now Benedict, to govern the Holy Church with a firm and resolute hand, to remove those who openly preach and practice against the Holy Faith, to reject any and all heresies, to welcome without delay those who have for years fought to retain Tradition in practice and belief, to render Justice to those who have been mistakenly identified as outside the church, and to provide for the continuation of Holy Tradition in liturgy, practice and belief among all those who your Son has won for His Father in Heaven.

Sit beside Joseph, now Benedict, and watch and inspire his every move that he may accurately and faithfully govern the Church here on earth. Give him the courage to do what must be done as you did when you left everything and went with your beloved spouse Mary and the Holy Infant, Jesus, to the safety of Egypt. Do not allow the enemies of Holy Church to influence Joseph, now Benedict, in any way with the heresies of Modernism so accurately described by the saintly St. Pius X in the encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis, a warning given to us over 100 years ago.

Inspire all our spiritual fathers to do what must be done to set on proper course our Holy Church on earth and together with Joseph, now Benedict, to proclaim the truth throughout the world and gain many souls for your Beloved Son. St. Joseph, you have never failed us and we ask for your special attention and concern now with the enemy of the Cross at our doorstep. Together with the Holy Angel, St. Michael, fight those enemies with every weapon in the heavenly arsenal and preserve us in our faith now and forever, Amen.

PEH

Cruise the Groove. said...

Whatever is Gods will be done through the Holy Father.

Jack said...

\\I must have missied something... who is Patriach Teoctist?\\

I believe he is the Orthodox Patriarch of Bucharest in Romania, but I was referring to His Beatitude Gregorios III, Melkite Greek Catholic patriarch of Antioch.

And I pray for the day when there is just ONE patriarch of Antioch, and not 5. (3 Catholic, 1 Orthodox, and 1 Syriac Orthodox)

Anonymous said...

God bless our Holy Father.

Crouchback said...

our mass intention left at Lourdes yesterday was for the intentions of Pope Benedict XVI.....

I wonder how many Cardinals and Bishops will pray for the Popes intentions..??

Not too many of the British hierarchy I'd guess.

Crouchback said...

Back in the 80's I spent some months in a very strict monastery, after every night office I prayed for Archbishop Lefebvre and the Pope.

Marcel Lefebvre intercede for us and Pope Benedict....this night and forever.

John McFarland said...

We must pray that the Holy Father hold and teach the Faith, the whole Faith, and nothing but the Faith, and rule by the principles of the Faith.

Otherwise, his sorrows will mean no more than that the Revolution devours its children.

M. A. said...

Besides offering daily prayers for the Holy Father, I also invoke the Most Precious Blood upon him while making the sign of the cross with Holy water.

Anonymous said...

Through the intercession of the popes, St. Victor I & St. Innocent I, we have the words of Pope St. Gregory through whom the Holy Spirit illumines His Church in Matins today. May His radiance penetrate all who read the sermon of he who once sat upon the Papal throne.

He is prophetically commenting on the portion of Our Lord's Gospel: Luke 21:9-11. These inspired words of precise clarity part the "fog" of our "cloud of unknowing."

"Our Lord and Redeemer foretells the evils that are to come before the end of the world, so that our foreknowledge of them will make them the less disturbing. . .Expected arrows rarely strike their quarry; and we too can better withstand the evils of the world once we are armed against them with the shield of foreknowledge. He (Our Lord) says, 'When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; these things must first come to pass, but the end will not be at once.'. . .He tells us that we are going to suffer both internal & external evils; for wars involve us with foreign enemies, insurrections with our fellow-citizzens. His purpose, then, in telling us that we shall suffer from enemies & from brothers is to show us that our troubles will be both internal & external.
But, since the end is not to follow immediately upon these preceding evils, He adds, 'Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be great earthquakes in various places, and pestilences and famines, and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.' May catastrophes will precede the final catastrophe. Indeed, the frequency of the preceding evils will be an indication of the eternal nature of the subsequent evil. That is why the end is not to come immediately after the wars & insurrections. A great many evils must come first, if these are to have any validity in foreshadowing an evil that is without end.
But since mention is made of so many signs of upheaval, it will be well to commit ourselves to considering these one by one. Some of them we shall have to suffer from heaven, some from earth, some from the elements, and some from men. 'Nation,' He says, 'will rise against nation.' These are the troubles that will arise among men. 'There will be great earthquakes in various places.' These refer to the wrath from above. 'There will be pestilences,' bodily disorders; 'and famines,' earth's barrenness; 'and terrors from heaven and storms,' disorders of the air. Everything is going to come to an end, and hence everything will be in turmoil before that end comes. We have involved the whole world in our sins, and the whole world will be involved in our punishment. Thus is the saying fulfilled, 'And the universe shall war with Him against the fool-hardy.'

May the Holy Spirit enoble those consecrated priestly souls chosen from all Eternity to present themselves before His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI in the service of Christ Our King, the Sovereign Head of the Mystical Body. "Armed with the shield of foreknowledge" may they protect & assist he who Eternal Wisdom has placed upon the Papal throne through Their Divine Providence.

"Veni Sancte Spiritus" through the intercession of Our Blessed Queen & Mother, the Immaculate Heart.

Br. Anthony, T.O.S.F. said...

I pray for the pope. Yes. I pray first and foremost for his conversion. Everything else after that will be a piece of cake. He will then be able to give up his life if Our Lord calls him to do so.

Mar said...

Thanks to M.A. for mentioning the Most Precious Blood in these the last days of July, the month dedicated to It.

O loving Pelican! O Jesu Lord! -
Unclean I am, but cleanse me in Thy blood! -
Of which a single drop, for sinners spilt, -
Can purge the entire world from all its guilt.

Praying for the Holy Father.

Scrooge said...

Anonymous @ 23:24

If you don't know why you should pray for the Holy Father, then you may want to rethink calling yourself a Catholic.

If you don't believe that God is all so powerful that He cannot grant His faithful sons and daughters' prayers that the Holy Mother Church be granted peace, unity, and protection; that Our Lord Jesus Christ will not live up to His promise that the gates of Hades will not prevail against the Holy Mother Church, that the Blessed Virgin Mary cannot intercede for us --- then you have a big problem.

When the pope is viciously attacked by evil and satanic plotters, it is every Catholics' duty to defend him.

Only sedevacantists and protestants do not pray for the pope because, well, they do not have a pope.

Jack said...

\\Anonymous said...
For what exactly are we to pray? That he'll actually do his appointed task of shepherding his flock by unequivocally denouncing the errors of Vatican II and its blasted Novus Ordo?\\

I don't know why such disrepectful posts against His Holiness are allowed here, but this provides a good lead in to something I've been mulling the last few days.

It's useless to wait for this priest or that prelate to be "more traditional". It's up to ME to restore tradition in my own life.

This means, first, being stricter about the fasts.

It means **I** take advantage of what spiritual nourishment--both liturgical and otherwise--is going on at my parish. If I can't be there when they are celebrated, I should say them to the extent possible at home, ideally at the same time.

It means ME not grousing when things aren't up to my standard, but, as the Apostle says, to bear with the infirmities of the weak. I'm sure Our Lord could have pointed out the liturgical abuses at the Temple or local Synagogue, but He never did. He frequented them, and only once did He do anything about an egregious abuse.

So, what do you all think? Does this sound like a plan?

LD Schmidt said...

Interesting coincidence is that we have that same statue of Our Lady of Fatima in our home this week for adoration as well. Yes may all of us who love our Holy Catholic Church Pray for our Pope!
Curious posting Br. Anthony!

authoressaurus said...

God Save the Pope. Our Lady of Victories, intercede for him.

Gratias said...

Almost every day I pray for Benedict XVI, the main individual that separates the Holy people from the non-holy ones.

Being suspicious of Maryknoll priests as potential homosexuals, I Googled Maryknoll + homosexual. In third place I found this: "The leadership of this Nation's largest lesbian, gay, bisexual and Transgender Catholics deplored the threat to dismiss Fr. Roy Bourgeois from the priesthood if he does not recant his support for Women's ordination in the Catholic Church."

So the gays went on from Victory on pervert marriage in Cuomo's New York straight to challenging our most Holy
Pope. May they pay in Heaven for this.

Anonymous said...

Please, allow me to remind you there is a "cavalry attack" prepared for His Holiness during his visit to Spain next month. One link in Spanish is

http://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2011/movimiento-pretende-boicotear-visita-20110729-82046.html

Another thorn in the Pope's crown.
Please, let us pray for him.
Our Lady of Fátima, please, protect our sweet Vicar of Christ on earth.

Rafael Castela Santos

LeonG said...

"..such disrepectful posts against His Holiness"

For the same reason yours are allowed on this site - we do not all see eye-to-eye with ecclesiastical liberal modernism. The church is in a miserable state without any doubt at all. At some point the leadership has to take responsibiliy for it. Indeed, we can all play our part and we are accountable to God for our own behaviour but have you tried saying the TLM; giving The Sacrament of Confession; dispensing Extreme Unction to the dying and so forth? How many bishops and presbyters come out with the laity to demonstrate against abortion; divorce; legalised sodomy and the rest? The laity can only do so much. Without papal example of what constitutes proper authentic Roman Catholic norms, values and mores we are all ultimately going to pay a very heavy price.

Ultimate responsibility lies on the right head not on a revised modernistic view of collective accountability in collegiality.

Let us continue to pray for The Pope, as Our Blessed Lady admonished. There is nothing disrespectful in begging Our Blessed Lady for his conversion - nor that he retake his papal crown and govern the church as she needs governing. While he is still living Pope Benedict XVI is our man and he is our pope.

Anonymous said...

Since His Holiness is being attacked along with the rest of the church, I hope and pray that finally his holiness will takes some heroic, decisive actions in his church.

The first action I would like to see is a public celebration of the TLC to bolster the confidence of the faithful.

I am reminded of the papal prophesies of St. Malachy, and while I do not comment on their authenticity, I am reminded of a reference of one of the last popes leading it during the greatest persecution of the Holy Roman Church.

The church is being persecuted from outside and from within, and it seems that that persecution is intensifying.

In the USA, where dozens of churches continue to close (in my diocese at least 5 or 6 closed last year--after 1/5 of the churches have already been closed)
the persecution is so evident.

Teresa said...

Please pray in a special way for the Holy Father, when he is coming to Berlin/Germany (22th September). There will be massive demonstrations against him in a hateful way. If it is possible for faithful to come to Berlin, please join us, to encourage the Holy Father.Tickets: www.papst-in-deutschland.de

Anonymous said...

This Pope in need of "conversion?" Have I really read that here, twice? The protestant spirit of the laity again rears its ugly head.

God bless Pope Benedict XVI.

Jordanes551 said...

I don't know why such disrepectful posts against His Holiness are allowed here

It's a judgment call. Often they aren't allowed, but when they are generally it is under the ideal of permitting as free and open a discussion as possible. Sometimes they are allowed simply to provide weblog visitors an example of the kinds of attitudes and opinions that people have and are willing to express but unwilling to sign their names to. Sometimes the anonymous commenter says something interesting in addition to the objectionable or offensive words. And sometimes the moderators are just tired and inattentive.

Iowa Mike said...

I pray daily for Pope Benedict and for Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke. I pray they will be given long life and that the Holy Spirity will bestow His seven gifts upon them as they go about the business of purifying and unifying God's Holy Church.

Anonymous said...

The only ones that are in need of conversion are those that think that they know better than Holy Mother Church.

God bless our Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ and the Father of Fathers!!

Delphina

Cruise the Groove. said...

Jordanes,
It is sinful to speak direspectfully of the Pope and we should always flee from sin and its near occasion, as the Catechism teaches.

Jack said...

\\Being suspicious of Maryknoll priests as potential homosexuals, I Googled Maryknoll + homosexual. In third place I found this: "The leadership of this Nation's largest lesbian, gay, bisexual and Transgender Catholics deplored the threat to dismiss Fr. Roy Bourgeois from the priesthood if he does not recant his support for Women's ordination in the Catholic Church."\\

Gratias, this does not mean that Maryknoll priests are active or latent homosexuals. This doesn't follow logically at all.

It looks to me like you were merely looking to be offended, if not on a witch hunt.

LeonG said...

"The protestant spirit of the laity again rears its ugly head.'

In the context you quote this is utter nonsense.

LeonG said...

"The only ones that are in need of conversion are those that think that they know better than Holy Mother Church."

The Pope is not Holy Mother Church - even a layperson may know better than he in numerous respects. Let us not become overly idolatrous about the papacy - is this not a modernist trend?

To love and pray for The Pope does not include being irrational about his ominiscience. We may stand with him to be counted among those defending The Faith but this does not mean we need to sanction his ecumenical excesses. Some people are going too far the other way.

LeonG said...

How can Brother Anthony's call for his conversion be disrespectful? This is completely irrational. The post-conciliar papacies have all needed conversion to defend Sacred Tradition which they have not been doing - otherwise we would not be here today on this site discussing many of the issues we are discussing. Let us have some sense, please.

Anonymous said...

Here is some sense, Leon G:
“According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which [the laity] possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.” (Canon 212 §3)

Unless you possess some special authority to call for the conversion of the Pope--which you will forgive me for dismissing as implausible--is there a reason I should not construe your words as extremely uncharitable and hostile to the Church? Irreverent they obviously are toward His Holiness.

I repeat, the protestant spirit of the laity again rears its ugly head.

Anonymous said...

If the Pope could do no wrong, then he wouldn't need any prayers. The fact is that he did not forfeit his free will when he became Pope. He can do great good and he can do great harm. THAT'S WHY WE PRAY FOR HIM! A Loyal Reader

Anonymous said...

In answer to Anonymous @21:41,

I respectfully disagree that it is necessarily Protestant in itself for one to pray for the Pope's conversion, upon which is predicated his role of "confirming his brethren," I think.

As to the intention having been apposite in the course of history, I suppose no one will be alarmed to agree; as to its appropriateness today, may I suggest: http://www.crc-resurrection.org/IER/aout-11/IER108-1_Liber-accusationis-quartus.php

In short, without wanting to represent intentions of others of which I am ignorant but can only imagine were truly benign, praying for HH eternal salvation is by definition charitable, is it not?

Hebetissimus

Anonymous said...

Joseph Ratzinger has himself said that every day is an occasion for conversion for every Christian. Thus the pope himself is indeed in need of conversion, daily conversion, as are we all.

Anonymous said...

@ anon. 29 July, 2011 23:55:
"Necessarily" Protestant is a red herring.
As I review the 'Brother's' initial comment, and the echoes in support of it, lots of impressions come to mind, none of them leading me to read such comments as liberally as you do. Only by the most grotesque contortions could I begin to see in those rude remarks the reverence due to the dignity of His Holiness. In the 'Brother's' comment, I read enormous, albeit inexplicable, condescension, scorn, and judgmentalism. This is especially clear given the context: a request for prayers, hardly for 'conversion' (by any definition, including Saint Paul's). With due respect to your (url) reference, the question is not historical, it is actual, and nobody but a sectarian could long hold to the lines of pseudo-criticism leveled at the Pope, whom history will record as being a great shepherd at an impossibly hard time for liturgy and, as such remarks as I find here hugely disgusting, charity. I don't suppose it would be too much to ask those posters to apologize for their rudeness, in flagrant defiance, which it is, of Canon Law. They really are not more Catholic than the Pope, but they appear to be far less patient and charitable.

LD Schmidt said...

Well.. None of us here have stated that we are not praying for our Pope! So..."United we stand" praying for our Holy Father.. Amen!

Anonymous said...

Indeed, pray for The Holy Father while he is in Berlin, for there will be massive demonstrations against him from every direction. Sadly, Berlin is a cesspool of perversion, Marxists, Muslims and radicals of all stripes.

Anonymous said...

Attn.to Leon G:

Thank you so much for your insightful contributios regarding our proper obligations to the occupant of the Petrine Office.

A.M. La Pietra

LeonG said...

And I would repeat to you once more Anonymous Said, whoever you are, the pope is neither omnipotent, nor omniscient nor omnipresent as The Blessed Trinity is in the Sacred Traditions of The Roman Catholic Faith. These have latterly been deconstructed by liberal modernism with papal complicity (read history of Vatican Councils for empirical evidence) which is one of the reasons why the liturgy is in chaos and pastoral processes are anarchic. Were it not so then why all the fuss? why the stunning episcopal neglect of their sheep? why the shocking reduction in atendance at Mass? why the modernist ecumenical excess tantamount to validation of false religion by our pastors? why the obsessive interreligious preferences demonstrated everywhere in the modern church over support for tradition? Etc., etc.

Stop blaming the laity and so-called social secularisation which many sociological studies rightly show to be quite the opposite - popular interest in spiritual phenomena away from organised religion. The culpable parties are those who led us into this ecclesiastical mess, in the first place. Indeed, Padre Pio how right you were - freemasonry rampant in the church at the highest levels and tepid presbyters. Deitich von Hilderbrand put it correctly when he stated that priests no longer had a Catholic sense for the sacred in the Holy Mass. Years of liberal modernist subversion accelerated this phenomenon exponentially with its apotheosis and moment of triumph at The Vatican Councils. Since then not one Pope has put this process in question. We have been bombarded with endless praises for the councils and their sequel but little if nothing in the way of objective appraisal. This is now long overdue as the chief indicators alone testifiy. If we needed papal conversion at this level then I pray for it with Brother Anthony.

Anonymous said...

How did a thread for prayers for the Holy Father turn into a disagreement?

Delphina

P.S. If I recall, St. Ignatius wrote in his Exercises that if he thought something was black and the Church said it was white, he would defer to the Church. If that is good enough for this extraordinary saint, it is good enough for Delphina.

Anonymous said...

Here's the right tone, exemplified by a prelate of old, thanks to Shane's blog:

The following letter from the Most Rev. John Charles McQuaid, Archbishop of Dublin and Primate of Ireland, was read out in all the churches of the Diocese of Dublin on Sunday, 10th May, 1942:

On the 13th May will occur the 25th anniversary of the Episcopal Consecration of His Holiness Pope Pius XII. The whole Catholic world will celebrate the event with an intimate fervour that finds its explanation in the words of Our Divine Lord Jesus Christ: “Thou are Peter and upon this Rock I will build My Church.” (S. Matt. xvi, 18.) We salute in Pius XII the Vicar on earth of Jesus Christ Himself.

At all times, Catholics offer to his august person the tribute of a faith and love which recognize in him the Father of Christendom, the infallible Guardian of Christian revelation and the supreme Judge of Christian morality.

In this event, however, of the Pope’s Episcopal Jubilee, all the faithful will see a providential occasion of asserting, in these days of confusion and fear, their unity of mind with the teachings of the Holy Father and their eagerness to co-operate with his efforts to re-establish Christian life. In the unique loneliness of his sacred office, Pius XII must surely be gladdened by the expression of firm loyalty and filial sympathy which this Jubilee will evoke.

In this city and diocese of Dublin, where the life of prayer and charity is so marked, our faithful people will welcome this opportunity of manifesting their union with the Holy See and their affection for the present Holy Father.

The better to provide for the worthy celebration of the Jubilee, we exhort all the faithful, in particular the children, to approach the Sacrament of Penance and to receive Holy Communion on the 17th May, the Sunday within the Octave of the Ascension. In this Diocese, Exposition of the Most Blessed Sacrament is hereby prescribed for at least some hours on that day, in all Churches and Oratories where the May Devotions are usually held.

It is indeed fitting that the Jubilee of the Holy Father should fall in the month of Mary. To her has been committed by God the task of confounding the powers of evil; to her also it belongs, under God, to lead men gently to the true knowledge and love of her Divine Son.

We would urge you, then, to ask all the Faithful who gather this month about the feet of Mary, to beseech God to bless the Sovereign Pontiff with the gifts of wisdom and strength demanded by his most difficult office. Obedient to the instructions of the Holy Father, let us pray in particular for a just and Christian peace, in which full honour will be paid to the absolute rights of Our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ.

You will, in fine, remind the faithful that we must endeavour, each in his own life, to prepare that peace by strict adherence to the supernatural standards of Christian living; in particular, by the practice of justice and charity towards all men without exception, by an effective compassion for the poor, by willing self-denial in the special duties of our state, and by the generous acceptance of the sufferings that may be our lot.

LeonG said...

The Most Rev. John Charles McQuaid, Archbishop of Dublin and Primate of Ireland would most probably have to modify his words if he came back among us today and found out what his brother bishops and presbyters have been up to in the meantime.

Unfortunately, the parents of thousands of abused children now see matters differently, especially in the face of a church which they trusted implicitly and which has woefully and eickedly betrayed that sense of confidence. MY empoathy lies far more with the latter than the former bing a father of five myself.

LeonG said...

In today's church their is neither black nor white about which one has to wonder what St Ignatius would have made.......

Gratias said...

Jack: my previous post was a non sequitur. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Leon

I have often asked the saints what they would have done today.

I'll let you know if any of them ever answer me. Of course, if I ever tell you any one of them did, you may think I have gone off the deep end, if I haven't gone off the deep end already.

Living in this present world and church is not conducive to sanity.

Delphina

LeonG said...

Delphina - the earlier church had never heard of phenomenology neither was it postmodernist. Thus, we can be sure how they thought. The history of thought, philosophy and so on are very instructive on such matters. Just as Padre Pio was genuinely shocked by the thought of a new experimental Mass and in the vernacular in the 1960s so we know what logics in use were applied practically during throughout the the preconciliar church era.

St Ignatius could have accepted new labels for colours but like Padre Pio centuries later to totally revolutionise the Holy Mass would have been unacceptable - in any case no pope would have dared touch Sacred Tradition in the liturgy in such a radical manner. It took, among other dysfunctional philosophies, phenomenological and pantheistic tendancies to contrive such fabrications.

LeonG said...

St. Vincent of Lerins states that when faced with novelty we ought to keep to Tradition and reject the novelty, which has no place in our religion.

I suppose we can label colours what we please after all. Vernacular liturgies and ecumenical & interreligious relativism are another story altogether.

Anonymous said...

LeonG

As long as you put it that way, I agree.

I think I better find a kind soul to donate some pre-Vatican II books and catechisms to me. I've been infected by the noxious novus atmosphere more than I realize.

Delphina