Rorate Caeli

Freak extremes meet: Hans Küng becomes a Sedevacantist, declares Benedict XVI schismatic over SSPX

Not, this is not May Fools' Day: heresiarch Hans Küng, who, "in his writings, has departed from the integral truth of Catholic faith, and therefore ... can no longer be considered a Catholic theologian nor function as such in a teaching role" (Declaration of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Dec. 15, 1979), has lost all notions of basic sacramental theology - and takes from this the most hilarious consequences. Or maybe he has just lost all shame, but that must have happened at the time of the Council.

Published today in the Südwest Presse:

HANS KÜNG - Papally provoked disobedience

Both in the official and in the alternative activities in the Mannheim Katholikentag*, the prevailing sentiment was one of resentment and frustration over the delayed reforms in the Church. In fierce contrast with that, Pope Benedict XVI prepares, apparently for Pentecost, the final reconciliation with the Catholic Church of the traditionalist Society of Saint Pius X, with its bishops and priests. This should happen even if the SSPX keeps rejecting key conciliar documents, having to be incorporated into the Church with  the use of skillful canonical tactics. Before the Pope does this, he must be duly warned, not least by the bishops, because of the following: 


1. The pope would be including in the Church bishops and priests that are definitely invalidly ordained. According to the Apostolic Constitution of Pope Paul VI  "Pontificalis Romani recognitio", of July 18, 1968, the ordination of bishops and priests by Archbishop Lefebvre is not only illegal but also invalid. This view is shared among others by a relevant member of the "Doctrinal Commission", Karl Josef Becker, SJ, now a cardinal.** 


2. With such a scandalous decision, Pope Benedict would, in his overall regretted isolation,  be even more separated from the People of God. The classical doctrine regarding schism should be a warning to him. According to it, a schism of the Church happens when there is separation from the Pope, but also when the latter separates himself from the body of the Church. "Even the Pope could become a schismatic, if he will not guard the unity and communion proper to the whole body of the Church." (Francisco Suárez, major Spanish theologian of the 16th/17th centuries). 


3. A schismatic pope loses his position according to that same teaching of the constitution of the Church. At least, he cannot expect obedience. Pope Benedict would be therefore encouraging the already widespread popular movement of "disobedience" against a hierarchy that is disobedient to the Gospel. He would bear sole responsibility for the grave rift and the strife created inside the Church. Instead of reconciling with the ultra-conservative, anti-democratic, and anti-Semitic SSPX, the Pope should rather care about the majority of reform-minded Catholics and reconcile with the churches of the Reformation and the entire ecumenical movement. Thus he would unite, and not divide.

 [*Rorate: the conference of Catholics in Germany that usually takes place every two years; the 2012 Katholikentag was held in Mannheim over the weekend. / ** This obviously makes no sense and Cardinal Becker would have never said such a thing. / - Source: Südwest Presse, in German - tip: German District of the SSPX.]

90 comments:

Father Ignotus said...

Truly, a Rosary Crusade is needed for Kung's conversion -- the man who, even after having been condemned by the CDF, and after Pope Benedict has reached out to him, continues in his gravely erroneous ways. God help him!

Observer said...

It sometimes seems the depths of sin in the world know no limit. Lord have mercy.

Cruise the Groove. said...

It appears Fr Kung has Alzheimers disease.
As such, we should pray for his caregivers.

rodrigo said...

I feel very strongly that Fr Cekada and Fr Küng should now hold a joint press conference to explore the implications of this new development. Might Rorate be able to start a fund to cover air fares and a live stream of the event?

Ferraiuolo said...

Surrexit Dominus Vere!

Jonvilas said...

Well, this demonstrates that pope Benedict XVI is on the right path. We must pray harder than ever before, in order he would not abandon the flock because of the fear of Kung-like and similar wolfs.
Oremus pro pontifice nostro Benedicto!

Gratias said...

"With such a scandalous decision, Pope Benedict would, in his overall regretted isolation,  be even more separated from the People of God." So Kung wants to declare Holy Benedict XVI an invalid pope. I thought the attack would be led by the Freemasons in the world press, but the Catholic progressives are now out ahead. Bad news.

God sent us a Great Pope, we will defend him. They will demonize him so his reforms are weakened while they patiently wait for the next Pope.

Long live Benedict!

Rick DeLano said...

I have checked the calendar, and it is not April 1.

Therefore may I thank the good and gracious Lord Jesus Christ, Who has smashed the teeth of a wolf in sheep's clothing this day.

Cruise the Groove. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NIANTIC said...

Well, Hans Kung lost it all a long time ago and Rome has made this abundantly clear way back. Of course he is a media darling and saint of the modernists as well as a true narcissist. We do well to ignore his rants and feel sorry for him. Boy, does he have a grand surprise in store for him. Lord have mercy.

Athelstane said...

". . . the ultra-conservative, anti-democratic, and anti-Semitic SSPX."

Don't hold back on us, Hans.

Tell us how you really feel about them. (Why were "misogynist" and "homophobic" left out? Is Dr. Kung losing it?)

Phillepus said...

Actually, New Catholic, contrary to what you say, it would not be absurd at all for a theologian in so many respects more traditional than traditionalists such as Fr Becker SJ to hold such a thesis; in fact, Fr Blignières OP seems to put in question the validity (not only the lawfulness) of traditionalist consecrations in his 1987 study downloadable via the JesusMarie website. The gist of the argument, as far as I can recall it, is that it is essential for bishops to be hierarchs, so a declared intention of making bishops-of-nowhere, for-ordinations-and-confirmations-only, would be invalidating.

Regarding the rest of apostate Kung's arguments, his contradiction is evidente: of course if we apply his same reasoning to himself, he has depart from our beloved Roman Catholic Church a long time ago. Deo gratias!

To conclude, I can't fail to notice the irony that in number 3, after the "At least,", it is your own position, New Catholic, rather than that of sedevacantists, that Kueng espouses. Freak extremes meet?

Uncle Claibourne said...

My goodness. Talk about demonic inversion. The Pope is about to make himself a schismatic by reconciling a group that faithfully holds all that the Church has held for centuries?

We knew the enemy of souls would not take this reconciliation "lying down." All of us, and the SSPX in particular, need to rally to the Holy Father's aid. This is only the beginning.

Brian2 said...

Soo.... Do you think Fr. cedaka has room for him in the rectory. ;)

Papabile said...

This is literally hilarious.

Zak said...

The real schismatic church finally speaks.

And look at the action that provoked it into speech.

--Zak

Long-Skirts said...

"Hans Küng, who, "in his writings, has departed from the integral truth of Catholic faith, and therefore ... can no longer be considered a Catholic theologian nor function as such in a teaching role" (Declaration of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Dec. 15, 1979)"

SOONER
OR
LATER

You can run on
For a long time
Run on for a
Long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down

These rotten wicked
Heinous men
Found foul and guilty
Again and again
All are depraved
Each one of us
Approve their boils
Then suck their pus

You can run on
For a long time
Run on for a
Long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down

Sent a Prelate
Dressed in white
To warn that the dark
Will be brought to the light
His cassocked clergy
Teaching Faith truthfully
But scourged like the
Man from Galilee

You can run on
For a long time
Run on for a
Long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
‘em down

Defilement diseased
Septicity
Carbuncled-consented
Catholicity
Kung says to Rome
"Dialogue to delay"
Optimistic his fruits of decay we’ll obey

You can run on
For a long time
Run on for a
Long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
You down
Sooner or later
God’ll cut
You down

(my apologies to Johnny Cash)

I am not Spartacus said...

First there was this award from the Masons -

Many Roman Catholics have gotten their rosary beads all a-tangle over Masonic news from Germany.

German Freemasons recently awarded "controversial theologian" Hans Kueng (also spelled Küng) the Kulturpreis Deutscher Freimaurer (Culture Award of German Freemasons), the Catholic Citizens website reports.

In presenting the award to Bro. Kueng, Bro. Jens Oberheide, an atomic physicist at the University of Wuppertal in Germany, reportedly called him a "free and brave thinker" and said Bro. Kueng spoke "straight from our Masonic hearts."


and now with this latest news dare we hope he gets a Masonic Lifetime Achievement Award?

MKT said...

Ludicrous as the Kung-ster sounds, the elect are duly warned that this is precisely the message that will be trumpeted throughout all the media globally.

And that will confuse multitudes of dumbed-down but well-meaning Catholics.

This is the prelude to a new Western Schism. The Austrians, Irish, French and German renegades, coupled with Hollywood-supported Americans and their half-blood Canadian relatives will jump on this bandwagon rather than collaborate with the Pope and the SSPX.

If there ever was a time to take lunatics like this seriously by decreeing explicitly and citing all the relevant canonical facts as to why they are wrong, this is the time. Neglecting to do so, Millions of more souls will be lost sadly.

Our Lady of Fatima must be weeping ever so profusely.

Gratias said...

"and anti-Semitic SSPX". That will be the main Progressive line of attack .

Romanitas said...

"With such a scandalous decision, Pope Benedict would, in his overall regretted isolation, be even more separated from the People of God."

But Hans, that would suggest Benedict is the one living in a sequestered delusion....

Hans Kung admittedly was a major factoring when my view of the SSPX was developing. I could never believe the saintly Archbishop Lefebvre died "excommunicated" while this heiresarch is canonically a priest in good standing.

New Catholic said...

Phillepus,

Our comment regarding Card. Becker is related to the fact that Küng mentioned him to justify the ridiculous notion that the bishops and priests of the Society have "invalid" ordinations, basically because the new rite of Ordination was enacted...

NBW said...

Kung is off his rocker. I found an interesting interview with Kung:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/theologian-hans-kueng-on-pope-benedict-a-putinization-of-the-catholic-church-a-787325-2.html

Romanitas said...

Also, since Kung doesn't believe in sacred Orders and that a layperson could celebrate the Eucharist in a pinch, why does he care about the validity of the Society's ordinations?

Josemaria Paulo Jeromino Martin Carvalho-Von Verster said...

I Can't help but call this heretic: "Fr Hans Kung-Fu" LOL!!!

Long-Skirts said...

Gratias said:

"They will demonize him so his reforms are weakened while they patiently wait for the next Pope."

...but Hans forgets with his "People of God" that some of the human race are WOMEN...

"BUT THEY FORGOT...
THE WOMAN BLEEDS"

THE
LILY

"The martyrs were bound, imprisoned, scourged, racked, burnt, rent, butchered —and they multiplied." St. Augustine

NO BURNING TEARING
SCOURGING SKIN
IT'S PSYCHOLOGICAL
ALL WITHIN.

NO ROTTING FLESH
OR PUTRID BLOOD
IT'S STERILE CLEAN
NO RANCID CRUD.
FOR BUTCHERED
TORTURED BOUND UP SKINS
REVEALS THE TRUTHS
OF BISHOPS SINS.

THEY WANT IT NICE
THEY WANT IT HUSHED
WITH VEINS OF ICE
GOOD SOULS ARE CRUSHED.

THE SILENT COLD
IS BETTER YET
FROZEN SOLID
CAN'T BEGET.

FOR MARTYRED BLOOD
REVEALS THE CHURCH
BLIND SOULS SEE TRUTH
AND END THEIR SEARCH.

"WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!"
THE BISHOPS SAY,
“SO LET'S IGNORE...
THEY'LL GO AWAY.

ENLIGHTENED MEN
DON'T SCOURGE THE SKIN
ENLIGHTENED MEN
KEEP BLOOD WITHIN."

BUT THEY FORGOT...
THE WOMAN BLEEDS
AND MONTHLY MAKES
A BED FOR SEEDS

WHERE NICE AND HUSHED
THEY'LL GROW TO MEN
AND SEIZE THE OARS
FROM WRISTS THAT BEND...

ON PETER'S BARK
WHERE BLOOD STILL FLOWS
FROM WOMAN'S WOMB...
THE LILY GROWS!

JTLiuzza said...

I see a sad old man who sees in the regularization of the SSPX a sign of what is coming and can't be stopped, that his life's work and that of all the liberals will end up where it belongs, in the ash bin.

I know everyone has said it a million times over but we should keep saying it; pray for the Holy Father.

Matthew said...

In Ecclesia Dei adflicta, Pope John Paul II refers to Mons. Lefebvre's episcopal ordinations as "unlawful", "an act of disobedience", and "a schismatic act". Nowhere that I can see does he question their validity. Rather, he appears to assume that they were valid. If the point were open to reasonable doubt, wouldn't the Supreme Pontiff have mentioned so grave a matter in his letter?

Kevin B. said...

"He would bear sole responsibility for the grave rift and the strife created inside the Church."

Beam. Mote.

Louis said...

1 - for Kung to quote Suarez for his own purposes would seem to go in the same category as the Devil quoting Scripture for his.

2 - for consecrations of "bishops of nowhere" to be invalid: what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There are many "auxiliary bishops" in the USA, and I suspect most Ordinaries were consecrated as auxiliaries years before ascending to their See, and were not "re-consecrated".

Louis

Irenaeus G. Saintonge said...

Saw whaaaaat? This is the most bizarre thing I've read all week, and that includes the junk Pelosi was saying earlier.

Hugh said...

Kung's sedevacantist tendancy began with his modernist horizontalism. Ultimately, he cannot accept that a pope can act and behave like a pope.

Father Anthony Cekada said...

Just proves the old saying: Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

On a slightly more serious note, I found Küng's denunciation of SSPX somewhat ironic, because his "minimalist" understanding of infallibility, which I was taught in a modernist seminary, was virtually identical to the understanding of it imparted to us by Abp. Lefebvre at Econe.

I figured that since BOTH of them said the same thing, it was probably correct. Little did I know.....

Now if I could only straighten Küng out on THAT point, NC might be able to ramp up the fundraising for the air fare, the advertising, the live feed and (natürlich!) the strudel!

New Catholic said...

Thank you for being such a good sport, Father.

Now, please recognize Pope Benedict XVI as the legitimate Bishop of Rome, your side is getting weirder and weirder.

I am not Spartacus said...

Am I the only one who is not surprised that Hans Kung pitched his tent on the Sedevacantsism Reservation just because it is more popular than Sedeprivationism?

And who is the head of the sedevacantists?

Is it Messrs Lane, Drolesky, or is it clerics like Dolan and Cekada (for whom I have a huge soft spot in my heart)?

My position is that unless they can agree on who is the leader of the sedevacantists we will never be able to rely on them to tell us who the real pope is.

(And when will they ever identify one - just one - Saint who was a sedevacantist?)

In the meantime, Hans Kung has pulled up a sede and vacanted his mind and so all one can do is smile in anticipation of the comity he will contribute to their communion.

Francis said...

Fortunately modernist heretics like Kung are beginning to see the writing on the wall. Which is orthodoxy and tradition are slowly returning to Our Lord's Catholic Church, and modernism, relativism and indifferentism are slowly exiting the Catholic Church.

Praenestrian said...

Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting...

Doc said...

St. Hippolytus was a sedevacantist and then antipope--but he was reconciled and died a martyr (and the Church has never accepted his "papacy" as a legitimate response to St. Zephyrinius and his successors).

Check out chapters VI and VII of the writing of St. Hippolytus linked below if you want to see what his complaints were against the Church and Popes he opposed--it's very analogous to the complaints one often sees of the Church nowadays (mostly compromise with heretics, encouraging heresy, new erroneous theology, conspiracy, being two-faced, and even that all the women were using contreception and/or practicing abortion). Just replace Sabellians and Noetians with Modernists.
http://www.oldwritings.com/writings/text/hippolytus9.html

Note, at this time St. Zephyerinius was Pope and St. Callistus was his deacon, but Callistus would later become Pope. Hippolytus' schism lasted until the reign of St. Pontianus.

St. Michael's little friend said...

Fr. Kung's words are an absolutely clear sign from Divine Providence's, allowed by the Eternal Pather's permitting Will. . .that the chldren of the Father may receive Eternal Wisdom's Positive Will of a sign that the Apocalyptic dragon is angered by the docile steps of the Vicar of Christ and H.E. Bishop Fellay.

We continue to pray with humble confidence the Veni Creator: "Far from us drive our hellish foe, true peace unto us bring, and through all perils guide us safe beneath Thy Sacred Wing."

"Veni Sancte Spiritus" through the intercession of "She who crushes the serpent", St. Joseph - "Terror of Demons" and St. Michael - "Vanquisher of Rebel Spirits".

Hark the Harold said...

Hold a joint press conference???!!
Hasn't there been enough smokin of that stuff already???!!

Clinton R. said...

How ecumenical does "Father" Kung think he is being by his opposition to the regularization of the SSPX?

Ivan K said...

The selection of the picture to accompany the article is brilliant. The Holy Father looks with amusement as an irrelevant heretic roars like a lion cub.

NIANTIC said...

LONG-SKIRTS, Thank you for your beautiful poems!! What a great gift you have! The beauty and faith of your soul shines brightly and gives glory to God and His Church. Thank you for your inspiration and may you be blessed abundantly always and forever! Laudetur Iesus Christus.

B. said...

Fr. Küng has changed. In the 70's he was a true liberal and complained about Pope Paul VI's treatment of Archbishop Lefebvre, saying that there should be "no Inquisition against Ecône". And now this.

Yo said...

Why gives this man any more voice? It's just crazy gossip to me. Let's not give more fuel to the loonies.

Cruise the Groove. said...

"Just proves the old saying: Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
Fr Cekada,
Fr Kung is not right here, and I have never known him to be right about anything he has pronounced upon outside of the Magistrium.

Andrew said...

This might sound simplistic but does Kung and his other dissenting friends realise that they do not have to Catholic?

They are free to leave. In fact, if they don't believe in Catholicism they should. I hope they repent and convert but there is nothing holding them back from becoming Anglican, Old Catholic, liberal Lutheran or a myriad of other things.

The fact that there are many denominations that actually reflect their beliefs and yet the refuse to join says to me that their insistence on staying in the Catholic Church has more to do with ego. They need the title of rebel.

I say live and let live. If you are Catholic be Catholic. If you don't believe in it, well go be something else. Alas that type of maturity would require a level of honesty, integrity and conviction that is well beyond such dissenters.

I'm not too worried though. That generation is getting older fast. Young, practicing Catholics are orthodox in a way that scares the pants off the baby boomers. Give it time and things will be alright again.

Jordanes551 said...

St. Hippolytus was a sedevacantist and then antipope--but he was reconciled and died a martyr (and the Church has never accepted his "papacy" as a legitimate response to St. Zephyrinius and his successors).

Check out chapters VI and VII of the writing of St. Hippolytus linked below if you want to see what his complaints were against the Church and Popes he opposed--it's very analogous to the complaints one often sees of the Church nowadays (mostly compromise with heretics, encouraging heresy, new erroneous theology, conspiracy, being two-faced, and even that all the women were using contreception and/or practicing abortion). Just replace Sabellians and Noetians with Modernists.


Regarding St. Hippolytus' complaints and accusations: It wasn't just that women were using contraception and resorting to abortion, but that Pope St. Callistus had remitted the usual severe penance for those sins and enabled those women to receive absolution. In addition, whereas St. Hippolytus accused the Roman Pontiffs of theological error, in retrospect it's clear that it was he, not the Roman Church, that held to an erroneous theology (something along the lines of the ideas that ultimately developed into Arianism).

Knight of Malta said...

Father Cekada is, without doubt, a very intelligent man. The problem with seeds is, as Spartacus implies, who decides the chair is empty--the guy in Oklahoma who lives with his mother?

OK, but now on to Kung. I've actually seen and heard Kung, and he, in person, is more radical than his books. He bakes Obama look conservative on such topics as abortion, gay "marriage" and contraception. Nuff said!

Petrus Radii said...

Summus Pontifex a nemo judicatur. Si quis presumat Pontificem Maximum judicare, anathema sit.

Just re-stating the traditional--and obvious--Catholic teaching.

How many times is Mr. Kueng going to excommunicate himself--and when will Rome recognise his departure from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Roman Church? Hmmm???

Poor Yorek said...

Hans Kung strikes me as an ecclesiastic Captain Ahab whose obsession is his own ego. Interesting that the nemesis of each 'character' is shown forth "in white."

Knight of Malta said...

Poor Yorek,

You hit the nail on the head! Kung is one of the most pompous men I have ever seen; his sh*t doesn't stink!

I have sat five rows from him in a room full of pseudo-intellectuals who clap with an ungodly glee when he does his road-show speak about the beauty of abortion.

How is this man still a priest, while the SSPX is still made to jump through circus hoops?

P.K.T.P. said...

If Benedict XVI be 'excommunicated' by Hans Küng, it will constitute proof positive this same Benedict XVI is the true Pope. Excommunication by a heretic proves that one is orthodox.

The problem with Küng is that he was never a sound theologian, and his work is underwhelming. He is not in the same league as the other heretics of the Council, men such as Rahner, Congar, and so forth.

P.K.T.P.

Knight of Malta said...

Btw: no one has mentioned it, but that is a vert clever photo for this post!!

Lautensack said...

I would actually guess, that according to Fr Küng's argument, not only the SSPX ordinations, but all ordinations done according to the old Pontifical after 1968 were invalid.

This would imply that over the decades tens of thousands of the faithful were left without sacraments - and that no-one in Rome had noticed that! This would naturally mean that a sizeable amount of curial Prelates are excommunicated automatically for simulating a sacrament.

Drew said...

Maybe, just maybe, Fr. Cekada will come back to Rome when Hans Kung is elected Pope?

Perhaps in a last attempt of liberal and progressive Cardinals before they are sent to their graves, they will elect Hans, who will chose his name Pope Martin Luther I.

Hahaha!

P.K.T.P. said...

Küng is a man of the sixties, a time when the circus still came to every town. But he brought the circus into the church. He was young back then, and now he's almost the only clown left, although there is a Bozo named Remi De Roo still living in my Diocese. God has seen fit to ensure that he will live long enough to see all his inane ideas die before he does.

P.K.T.P.

Prof. Basto said...

Surely Father Kung merits the medicinal penalty of excommunication, to which I would add, pro bono Ecclesiae, that of dismissal from the clerical state.

We have suffered his heretical opinions for too long. Now that he has decided to add formal schism to his curriculum, he should not continue to present his opinions with impunity.

He has suffered the shipwreck of the Faith, has abandoned altogether ecclesiastical communion with the See of Peterm and that should be made clear including as a means of general prevention, so that the simple folk may know that, despite his Ordination, he is not a representative of the Catholic religion.

P.K.T.P. said...

Dear Moderators:

I wouldn't call this Künghead a "heresiarch". That implies that he has some stature. Rahner was a heresiarch. He was the heresiarch of turgid expression. But Küng is just an amateur. Some say that he won 26 gold medals at the Tokyo Olympics but this, as it turns out, is a rumour having no substance. Küng is just a plain old common heretic. He is a Sister Chichester, not a Martin Luther.

P.K.T.P.

Allan said...

Question for New Catholic or other Moderators: Where did you find that AMAZING photo for your banner today? Where is it from? Do you have a source?

Alan Aversa said...

Küng is at least being consistent…

New Catholic said...

Sorry, have to keep our sources! :)

Mirari said...

"The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres" [eg, Lefebvre, Fellay, Gruner]

"the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord." [eg, Kung et al]

(Our Lady of Akita)

Having read the Marian secrets(from Our Lady of Good Success to Our Lady of Akita), how can one be surprised by any of the events we see unfolding before us? May God enlighten and guide Pope Benedict and Bishop Fellay at this crucial juncture.

P.K.T.P. said...

Dear Alan Aversa:

Well, yes, he's consistent: he's seldom right but never in doubt.

P.K.T.P.

Josephus Muris Saliensis said...

Bonkers. Altzheimer's, or Delerium Tremems!

Poor man.

Orate pro illo.

P.K.T.P. said...

On a more serious note, one wonders why Küng bothers with all of this. He makes himself look even more ridiculous than before. Sure, he has his fans and they will not leave his side, but they have no future. While they do still exercise considerable influence, it is all for naught, and most people can see that now. The liberals' movement has sunk into mere nostalgia for what could never be and never shall be. The more sensible among the liberals just keep it to themselves now. Küng is like these rock stars. They had their day and it was wrong when they had it, but it is now over, except that they do not see that. Sad and pathetic.

Unfortunately, the liberals have not yet had their final gasp, and there will be payback for this Pope's initiative. Another shoe will drop, and more than once. But the Age of Aquarius was a detour from truth down a dead end road, and there's no returning to that cul-de-sac. The Church has had her hiccough and we must now move on. It's time for Küng to see the writing on the wall and read the sign of the times. The French Revolution and its ideals are history.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

Poor, Poor Haans Kung, doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the Church any more-if he ever did.

Poor, poor Hans Kung...last breath, but same old routine. He (and others of his ilk) used this same tactic after the Council to implement extremist reforms.

This is what "The People of God" want. No...we really don't, Haansie.

RJH

Paul said...

LET THE SELF-EXCOMMUNICATIONS BEGIN! Where's the popcorn?

Peterman said...

*YAWN*..get lost Hans, nobody cares.

pandz said...

The face of the devil is now getting clearer. They are starting to come out one by one..

MConstantine17 said...

Mr. Kung detests being called a Sedevacantist.

The term is Medieval, possibly even of Scholastic origin, and sounds like Latin.

Therefore, he prefers the more inculturated (and wonderfully novel) term Emptyseater.

This term will also be used to describe attendance at his funeral.

Jack O'Malley said...

Allan, I believe there is a blogger who is supremely adept at the alteration and composition of digital photographs and whose blog is entitled something like the Latin vocative of "Holy Father". Perhaps he is the source of the very amusing image which accompanies the current post. As for the Lion Küng ....

Dio mio! I didn't just write that, did I? Quod scripsi, scripsisse nolo. :-(

New Catholic said...

No, this actually is a picture of a general audience some time ago.

Knight of Malta said...

I used to own this man's pseudo-intellectual works; Kung is big in his own mind!

Thank God his breed is dying, and I say that with all due respect!

These pseudo-intellectuals are castigating scars on the face of the Church. They think their Barthian and Rhanerian nonsense can remake the face of the Church.

They are protestant in praxis, yet, if any of you has spent one hour reading the Gospels, would Christ have culled them or the pharisees rejected them?

Uncle Claibourne said...

I'm afraid we're all missing something obvious here....

Aren't the Pope and Kung longstanding friends?

Were they not progressives, arm in arm, at the Council?

Didn't they spent several hours together, dining and talking, after Benedict's election?

We can therefore only conclude that this announcement of Kung's was obviously pre-arranged; part of a nefarious plot to lull Fellay into a state of complacency! All the better to lure the Society into the trap, and destroy it!

How can we not see this?????

(Tongue planted firmly in cheek...)

A. M. D. G. said...

...Thank God his breed is dying, and I say that with all due respect!...

Respect for what? Those modernists nearly obliterated Catholicism from the face of the earth! The sooner they meet their Maker the better!

Knight of Malta said...

AMDG, yep, agreed!!

P.K.T.P. said...

Künz Klown, as it turns out, by his first point, is inadvertently declaring that Pope John Paul II was also a schismatic: "The pope would be including in the Church bishops and priests that are definitely invalidly ordained. According to the Apostolic Constitution of Pope Paul VI "Pontificalis Romani recognitio", of July 18, 1968, the ordination of bishops and priests by Archbishop Lefebvre is not only illegal but also invalid."

Well, this applies also to John Paul II. In 2002, when John Paul II reconciled the 26 Campos priests and their Bishop, Licinio Rangel, he was including in the Church men who were also, according to his nutty idea, invalidly ordained, for the Campoos priests were all ordained in the pre-1968 Ordinal. A fortiori, John Paul II reconciled Bishop Rangel himself, who had been consecrated Bishop by three S.S.P.X bishops in 1991!!!!! So everything Benedict XVI is now doing was being done by John Paul II in 2002 when he created the Campos personal Apostolic Administration.

It follows that John Paul II became a schismatic in 2002. That means that all 26 of the cardinals he created in 2003 are anti-cardinals. One of those cardinals was Cardinal Scola, so, should he be elected next, we shall have had three anti-popes in a row. But we do know that Paul VI was a real Pope. So, when Paul VI threw Künz the Klown out in 1977, we do know that that act was legitimate--and even valid, and licit and good and holy and whatever.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Uncle Claiborne:

The fact that Benedict XVI has been kind to Küng and invites him every summer to Castel Gandolfo makes Küng's statements all the more outrageous. Now he looks not only ridiculous but also uncharitable. Above all, one suspects senility. Anyway, Küng's statement is enormously helpful to us because it depicts our opponents as washed-out has-beens. This will make the reconciliation all the more sure.

P.K.T.P.

Alsaticus said...

This threat launched in front of the already constantly anti-Roman Katholikentag shows how important the reconciliation of the Society and Rome is.

These words of Küng should be meditated by the 3 bishops who felt last month they had to disagree with Bp Fellay and his council.

The Church at large needs the input of the Society purified from unnecessary aggressive speeches and attitudes.

It shows also where the real rampant/open schism is. Not really in Menzingen.

Matt said...

Really, people? Why all the gaflenching over this has-ran? He is what he is. Just put him back in the Crazy Tree he fell out of.

Matt

Uncle Claibourne said...

That was a joke, Mr. Perkins. Just having a little fun at the expense of the "IT"S A TRAP!!!" crowd.

Ora et Labora said...

Father Malachi Martin used to say:
"There is a curse that comes when you loose your faith, and is that you don't know you have lost it, otherwise you would try to find it"

I don't know if that is what happened to Küng, but his main concern at this stage of his life should not be the Pope and the SSPX, but the knowledge that his own clock ticking, and pretty soon he will be before the Almighty, and I would hate to be in his shoes!!!

Timothy Mulligan said...

This is like the comic relief in one of Shakespeare's plays.

In that light, with respect to these German and Austrian de facto schismatics:

Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more,
Men were deceivers ever,
One foot in sea and one on shore,
To one thing constant never:
Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nonny, nonny.

Sing no more ditties, sing no moe,
Of dumps so dull and heavy;
The fraud of men was ever so,
Since summer first was leafy:
Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nonny, nonny.


-- William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing

Gregory P. Lloyd said...

Friends, those who love the truth should try, difficult -- for some more than others -- as it can be, to discern the truth, as the Fathers of the Desert remind, in whatever another says, whether saracen or Fr. Kueng.

Where to begin? ...

Admittedly, that is a bit more difficult in the case of Fr. Kueng.

The liberal mind is a twisted thing. As Cardinal Pomepedda once also publicly proved on this topic. Cf. http://coalition.stblogs.com/?p=234 .

anabel said...

Serious proof that Our Lord has a wicked sense of humor!!

Seiously funny. Ya just can't make this stuff up!

Long-Skirts said...

Timothy Mulligan quoted Shakespeare:

"Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more..."

THE
RAPE

When I begged
For pure
White Mutton -

You said
I was a
Nostalgic for glutton -

When I
Thirsted for juice
Of the grape -

You took
My soul
For you to rape -

For comfort
Went to Mother Church
You told me leave I'd have to search -

But deep within
My enclosed
Fountain -

The deposit
Made
Would move a mountain -

So through
The pain
And all your scorn -

Birth I gave...
Sons
Were born -

Now Holy Orders
Are their
Goal -

May God
Have mercy
On the rapist's soul -

Jim Swarthow said...

Too much medical marijuana ... but let's get real here. This man should have been excommunicated a long time ago. Are we so consigned to Catholic priests teaching utter filth that it just goes on unpunished, even if only for the benefit of the faithful? So Benedict XVI needs to finally pull down the hammer on a former colleague of his. To let him run off at the mouth under the guide of "priest in good standing" with faculties is an utter scandal. He's one of the big figureheads, so why not send that message, including a nice list of heterodox opinions which he's taught. That would clear the air a bit, and totally discredit him. But I imagine there's a bit of "diplomacy" at work here and worry about offending the ecumenical sycophants. How long must we endure this man?

CFS said...

Just as the Holy Father left the door open for the SSPX to come back into the fold so he leaves open the door to Fr. Kung. May he return while there's yet time.

Long-Skirts said...

CFS said:

"...Fr. Kung. May he return while there's yet time."

Yes..."May God
Have mercy
On the rapist's soul - "