Rorate Caeli

"Love the Pope!" - no ifs, and no buts:
For Bishops, priests, and faithful, Saint Pius X explains what loving the Pope really entails


The struggle against Modernism had taken a great toll on Pope Saint Pius X as he spoke 100 years ago, in November 1912, to the members of the Apostolic Union of Clergy, a confraternity of secular priests in union with the Holy See. He knew that despite every effort, he was being disobeyed and disregarded in so many places, by priests and even by bishops. He knew "learned" scholars despised him, and wished their authority to take the place of the Apostolic voice. 

In a cry coming deep from his holy heart, the Pope summoned all the Church to understand what love for the Pope, any Pope, the one who holds the Keys, truly entails: a hard message that, exactly one century later, must be heard and obeyed by the clergy and by the lay faithful.

________________________________


Distracted with so many occupations, it is easy to forget the things that lead to perfection in priestly life; it is easy [for the priest] to delude himself and to believe that, by busying himself with the salvation of the souls of others, he consequently works for his own sanctification. Alas, let not this delusion lead you to error, because nemo dat quod nemo habet [no one gives what he does not have]; and, in order to sanctify others, it is necessary not to neglect any of the ways proposed for the sanctification of our own selves.

...

The Pope is the guardian of dogma and of morals; he is the custodian of the principles that make families sound, nations great, souls holy; he is the counsellor of princes and of peoples; he is the head under whom no one feels tyrannized because he represents God Himself; he is the supreme father who unites in himself all that may exist that is loving, tender, divine.

It seems incredible, and is even painful, that there be priests to whom this recommendation must be made, but we are regrettably in our age in this hard, unhappy, situation of having to tell priests: love the Pope!

And how must the Pope be loved? Non verbo neque lingua, sed opere et veritate. [Not in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth - 1 Jn iii, 18] When one loves a person, one tries to adhere in everything to his thoughts, to fulfill his will, to perform his wishes. And if Our Lord Jesus Christ said of Himself, "si quis diligit me, sermonem meum servabit," [if any one love me, he will keep my word - Jn xiv, 23] therefore, in order to demonstrate our love for the Pope, it is necessary to obey him.

Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey - that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; we do not set above the authority of the Pope that of other persons, however learned, who dissent from the Pope, who, even though learned, are not holy, because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope.

This is the cry of a heart filled with pain, that with deep sadness I express, not for your sake, dear brothers, but to deplore, with you, the conduct of so many priests, who not only allow themselves to debate and criticize the wishes of the Pope, but are not embarrassed to reach shameless and blatant disobedience, with so much scandal for the good and with so great damage to souls.

Saint Pius X
Allocution Vi ringrazio to priests on the 50th anniversary of the Apostolic Union 
November 18, 1912

44 comments:

Xsspxer said...

This is my major concern with the SSPX. Even if one were to assume that their stated rationale for disobedience (the whole emergency situation, supplied jurisdiction thing) was legitimate, you would expect a certain ennui, a latent regret that such a situation has even arisen, coupled with an explicit desire for unity down the road (under whatever conditions).

Instead, my personal experience was that most in the SSPX pews and even some clergy were in fact utterly indifferent to the pope or Rome or any authority outside of themselves. So many SSPX faithful are indifferent to their "emergency" situation and have not the slightest desire for reunification. To quote one Society priest, "so what? I don't care." Could there be a more Protestant attitude? A Catholic priest totally indifferent to the pope?

At least Bp. F. has always maintained the party line that, although we may not know the details of God's plan for His Church, the current jurisdictional situation ought to be considered temporary and regrettable.

Malta said...

How do we die gracefully? We can't. How do we remain in a modernistic, Church full of synergism and relativism gracefully? We can't. So, where's the rub?

SSPX. They are holding things together!

Scott Quinn said...

Exsspxer said...

Ennui? Pick a different word, please. You obviously don't like the SSPX. At least choose your words wisely. Your "argument" rests on (allegedly) one interaction with a priest of the SSPX. You are being dishonest in your hit-and-run assertion that SSPX priests are "totally indifferent" to the pope. (You also switch blithely from singular to plural, which is a sign of sloppy thinking/writing, though it does reveal a certain ennui with respect to the facts.) Phrases like "so many" and "most" (how many?) based on your "personal experience" also are indicative of a hit piece mind-set.

Now it's my turn: All of the faithful with whom I have spoken do indeed regret the current situation, and all of the faithful with whom I have spoken remain quite engaged in the battle against the enemies of the Church and pray for unity, though not, as you wish, "under whatever conditions." You can keep your Neville Chamberlain appeaser-types. They're the ones who'll throw the pope under the bus as soon as it suits them.

Meanwhile, SSPX chapels defend the pope and pray for him. "So many" and "most" who call themselves Catholics (in my personal experience) don't.

The tragedy of this whole mess is that the pope's best supporters are kept at arm's length.

JWDT said...

Even though the priest/parishoners say they don't care, my experience says they very much do care!
Imagine the friend you rely on for help in any situation and they turn their back on you...you would be angry and after a bit of time probably turn indifferent. This is the analogy I believe a lot of my (SSPX'er) Catholic friends can relate to regarding the debacle in the Church over the past 50-60 years!
In a lot of ways, the time we live in are related to the End Times in the Bible...a lot of itching ears over the past Century to make amends with the world, meanwhile most if not all have their heads stuck in the sand not wanting to recognize the dire situation we live in. For me and the 9 souls charged to me, the 'emergency & supplied thing' are essential to my Faith as well as the souls given to me by God.

Joseph said...

Malta,

Many millions of Catholics and many thousands of priests are holy servants of God and most of them have never even heard of the SSPX, much less associate with them.

Bernadette O'Hanlan said...

Never thought I'd see this kind of post on your blog. Thank you.

Gratias said...

We are so fortunate to be living during Benedict XVI's pontificate. A Holy man that leaves his teachings in writing for the benefit of future generations. I recommend reading his books based on the compilation of his General Audiences on Wednesdays. Many of the Catholic Saints were prolific writers whose works are still with us.

A personal anecdote: ten days ago I was at a Papal small audience. When my turn came up to kiss Peter's ring I thanked the Pope for leaving his thoughts in writing. I mentioned Jesus of Nazareth, and the compilations of General Audiences. When I mentioned the latter he said, surprised: "you read those? " He was surprised someone would actually read his writings. A wonderful humble man and shepherd.

Gratias said...

Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram ædificabo ecclesiam meam et portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam.

Patrick said...

"To quote one Society priest, "so what? I don't care." Could there be a more Protestant attitude? A Catholic priest totally indifferent to the pope?"

The reality is not indifference to the pope but fundamental disagreement with the last few popes who shockingly have not automatically acted, taught or guarded the faith and tradition as one would naturally expect they should have by virtue of their quasi-supernatural office. To the contrary. If election to the throne of St. Peter carries with it an almost mechanical, robotic inability to teach or tolerate heresy for the mortal occupant then theologians sure have their work cut out for them to explain the current growing mess and all the contradictions upon contradictions. One wonders what St. Pius X would say or write today, not to mention all previous popes. I agree that the SSPX has painted itself into a corner, loyally upholding the First Vatican Council in the face of the Second Vatican Council. Something does not compute Spock.

CH DUPUY said...

Though we are called whiners by other bloggers, it used to be easy to love the Pope in pre-VII Catholicism. Now seems that after Paul VI refused to use the papal tiara, a splendid crown symbolizing thrice the power of the Papacy, modern Popes are afraid to show or make use of the awesome power of the office, especially after the Decree on Collegiality of Vatican II. Now I read sadly in the news that the Vatican is convening an international conference by the Pontifical Council on Health to address the problem of abortions in Catholic Hospitals, due to political pressures. Seems that the Vatican hierarchy (the Pope ? or the CDF ?) is "preoccupied" with the situation. "Preoccupied" (??). I thought that the Pope or the CDF or the Secretary of State, or somebody in the Vatican bureaucracy was able to issue an order withdrawing the title of Catholic from such institutions, because the Church cannot condone such a thing happening, regardless of any political pressures.

Barbara said...

I love the Pope despite perplexity about some of his actions and words.

It is necessary to be realistic as well as faithful and face the fact that some of the Popes's words and actions have been a bit worrying...but I do not see what he sees nor have to carry the burden that he carries.

One of the reasons (there were quite a number) I quit my parish was that there was absolutely no reference to the Holy Father's writings and teachings. Orphaned parish. Not a word about any Pope's encyclicals - never mind the present Pope's. Protestantised parish. I have strong views on faithfulness to the Holy Father - an essential sign of the one true Church.

Call it a grace - I do not understand Catholics who do not love the Pope ...they make me uneasy and a bit scared.

Long live Pope Benedict XVI!

May God protect him today and every day of his life.

Obviously you don't come to this blog much Bernadette.

Maria said...

Not expected this coz I thought this blog runs by Sedevacantists all along

Catholic Mission said...

The SSPX could love the pope too!!!

Monday, November 19, 2012
Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson has said that the Society of St.Pius X must know that adherence to Vatican Council II and the Catechism does not put them at odds with Tradition.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/archbishop-thomas-egullickson-has-said.html#links

Monday, November 19, 2012
Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson says Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/archbishop-thomas-egullickson-says.html

Christopher said...

Gratias said:

We are so fortunate to be living during Benedict XVI's pontificate. A Holy man that leaves his teachings in writing for the benefit of future generations.


Indeed, Amen.

God Bless.

John Kearney said...

It is no use talking about upholding the Catholic Faith or being the `ones who are keeping it together` when you are standing behind the barricades and not part of the fight. That is the trouble with the members of the SSPX I have been acquainted with, though I would not dare generalize and say it is true of all. There is one SSPX website in which the Pope is regualarly attacked and God help anyone who tries to defend him. And Exsspx will you please stop attacking people, you put your case first and defend it, you do not have to tell people what you think of them. Again that is what this SSPX website does. Attack, attack, attack. It is trtue `ennui` or bordom.

Sixupman said...

Patrick:

To quote another SSPX priest to the congregation: "we have the Pope we have, live with it and stop complaining", and, "the longer we are distanced from Rome the more difficult it will be to effect a resolution to the impasse, which is troubling.".

He and his confreres were not pro-+Williamson.

mic said...

Caro NC,

perdonami l'OT.

Per favore potreste dar voce a quel che succede a Roma, nella diocesi del Papa?

http://chiesaepostconcilio.blogspot.it/2012/11/2-dicembre-gesu-e-maria-al-corso-anchio.html

e
http://chiesaepostconcilio.blogspot.it/2012/11/ancora-su-gesu-e-maria-al-corso.html

Ci sono anche altri articoli con i precedenti.

Questa è solo la punta dell'iceberg di quel che succede alla Tradizione purtroppo non solo nella diocesi del Papa e non solo in Italia, dove recentemente le suore Francescane dell'Immacolata in Umbria e in Abuzzo, nei conventi che le ospitano, sono state costrette a celebrare il VO a porte chiuse!

In un momento in cui anche la FSSPX risulta messa all'angolo, per non dirti i retroscena del Pellegrinaggio Summorum, che nonostante l'organizzazione machiavellica ha mosso numerosi fedeli, anime accese di amore di Dio da tutto il mondo, alle quali ha risposto il gelo di Bertone & c e ogni tipo di boicottaggio per la musica e per gli orari!

Don M said...

I am thankful for this post.
These are truths we must stare in the face, as Catholics.
Verily St Pope Pius X and our Holy Father are not the same.
The theology of our Holy Church today, may be exactly what St Pope Pius X was warning against, BUT the Holy Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ. The Holy Father is the Vicar of Christ.
I think this letter should be left for a reminder of where to check our emotions, so we don`t fall off the cliff of schism or worse.
I am NOT saying the SSPX is in schism either.
As Catholics we must Love the seat of Peter, and Love is not always liking something.

Gratias said...

The post by Mic above is of the highest importance.

We atteded a solemn EF there on November 4th. The 10:30 Sunday mass is the work of the ICRSS in Rome and has been important because it is held at the Church of Gesù e Maria in via del Corso at the very center of Rome.

When we were there, there was a small announcement on the door stating that after November the 10:30 mass would be held in .... Portuguese! Now we know the ICRSS has been closed down in this magnificent Church. This it being protested December 2d, by Roberto de Mattaei and the other faithful of this mass.

How can a persecution like this happen on the Year of Faith?

Anil Wang said...

@CH DUPUY,
> modern Popes are afraid to show or make use of the awesome
> power of the office, especially after the Decree on Collegiality of Vatican II.

WRT Collegiality, Vatican II made no such decree. The Pope is still has all the theological perogatives of Vatican I.

What Vatican II added was national conferences of bishops, conferences of religious life, as well as the option of priests to set up parish councils to help them in their non-priestly duties. Neither of these are heretical in and of themselves, and they could in a stronger, more stable Church, in more friendly times been extremely positive. The key problem is that these institution were targeted by modernists, feminists, and outright enemies of the Church (e.g. George Soros and his thugs). As a result many subverted and outright rebelled against their constitutions (e.g. five years after the Pope founded CMSWR as a way to direct women religious, the CMSWR rebelled, unilaterally changed its name to LCWR, and made demands to the Pope, and resisted all efforts to return to their original mandate).

This is the key difficulty post-Vatican II Popes have to deal with. They simply do not directly control the Church as pre-Vatican II Popes did. Even having catechists, heads of Catholic institions and theologians sign a simple Oath of Fidelity ( http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfoath.htm ), it nearly impossible. The oath that amounts to saying that they believe the Nicene Creed and the doctrines of the Church, i.e. they are Catholic, so there is no execuse for any Catholic not to sign without a second thought.

The strategy of the current Pope seems to be to patiently rework the various conferences so that they are more Catholic. It does seem to be working (e.g. USCCB is better than it used to be, the LCWR is finally getting reformed), but at the rate things are going, it may take a few decades before things are sorted out. If however, the councils cannot be reformed, I have full confidence that a future Pope will just abolish them all and return to the pre-Vatican II bureaucracy.


I am not Spartacus said...

We Christian Catholics (disciples of Christ following Him in the One True Universal Church He established) live during an epoch when The NCAA (Sports Magisterium) is more diligent and rigorous in policing its members than is The Magisterium of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which, since the advent of liberalism, feminism, homosexualism and effete ecumenism in the 1960s, has been indulgent and lax when it comes to policing its innumerable heretical and perverted Prelates, Priests, and Politicians.

Of course, this does not mean we must not love the Pope but it does mean that one must bear a Cross to maintain the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Authority and that ain't kosher.

I mean, it is one thing to have to be militant contra the World, the Flesh, and the Devil, it is quite another thing to have to be militant against one's own ordinary Ordinary; but, such is springtime in the garden of ecumenism.

CH DUPUY said...

Anil Wang said:
"WRT Collegiality, Vatican II made no such decree. The Pope is still has all the theological perogatives of Vatican I.

What Vatican II added was national conferences of bishops, conferences of religious life, as well as the option of priests to set up parish councils to help them in their non-priestly duties. Neither of these are heretical in and of themselves, and they could in a stronger, more stable Church, in more friendly times been extremely positive. The key problem is that these institution were targeted by modernists, feminists, and outright enemies of the Church (e.g. George Soros and his thugs). As a result many subverted and outright rebelled against their constitutions (e.g. five years after the Pope founded CMSWR as a way to direct women religious, the CMSWR rebelled, unilaterally changed its name to LCWR, and made demands to the Pope, and resisted all efforts to return to their original mandate)."

The Pope is still has all the theological perogatives of Vatican I... Hmm...
The Decree of Collegiality is one of the more confusing of VII. It sometimes seems to limit the power of the Papacy if it is executed together with the College of Bishops. So much so that Paul VI saw fit to add a "Nota Previa" (actually a foot note) to the Document, which pretends to make clear the faculty of the Pope to act alone, but is as confusing as the Document itself. The result is that it is completely ignored in official publications of VII documents.
The National Conferences of Bishops, the Conferences of Religious Life, etc., added speed to the centripetal forces away from the Holy See. The net result is that nowadays the Pope is practically powerless before such Collegiate Institutions, and in essence we cannot speak of a Universal Catholic Church, but of National "Catholic" Churches governed independently from the Holy See.
As to loving the Pope, as we used to before VII, I find it impossible to love Paul VI, the Pope that destroyed the Catholic Church, that gave away his tiara to be sold and the product to be "distributed to the poor", a gesture of dubious sincerity at the time that thousands of clients of various banks were skimmed or even ripped off from their savings trough the maneuvers of the Vatican Bank (the Institute for Religious Works) with the aid of the Ambrosian Bank. Not only that, he was the Pope that gave away his staff and his papal ring to U Thant, then Head of the United Nations. This is very symbolic, because it signifies that practically he abdicated the office of the Papacy, by uncrowning himself, and giving away the symbols of his power.
To culminate this round of iniquities, he returned to Turkey the standard of the flagship of the Ottoman Armada, that was defeated in the Battle of Lepanto, and that St. Pius V held in great esteem and had offered as a relic to the Our Lady, the Queen of Victories.

Long-Skirts said...

Gratias said...

"The post by Mic above is of the highest importance... Now we know the ICRSS has been closed down in this magnificent Church....How can a persecution like this happen on the Year of Faith?"

Gratias also said...

"We are so fortunate to be living during Benedict XVI's pontificate"

It's not JUST about the Mass but the WHOLE Roman Catholic Faith!

Anil Wang said...

@Blogger CH DUPUY,
As to loving the Pope, as we used to before VII, I find it impossible to love Paul VI, the Pope that destroyed the Catholic Church"

Perfectly understandable. It's impossible to love either Pope Alexander VI or Pope Clement V (responsible for the Avignon Papacy) because of the damage he did to the Catholic Church.

Had neither been Pope, there likely would not be a Protestant Revolution and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Still, they were our Popes and we must give due honor to their office and give due obedience even if we despise them personally. To do otherwise would be to sense to be fully Catholic.

Maura said...

Off-topic, I know, but this is really worth making known to the whole world: IRISH REDEMPTORISTS PROMOTE HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY. They actually used a novena to St Gerard to do it! Two active homosexuals were invited to preach from the pulpit of the Redemptorist church. See for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo5fVaqtvRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akp11lNCvnQ

MPWD said...

@Malta:

#ThatAwkwardMomentWhen you accuse the church of synergism instead of syncretism. If you're going to be prideful and bombastic when speaking ill of Holy Mother Church, at least use the proper terminology.

The Rad Trad said...

Part of the disconnect is that the SSPX is loyal to how they imagine a Pope should act. This Pope, like his predecessor and Paul VI, simply do not wish to utilize the power to depose, condemn, and elevate.

Still, we must love the Pope by virtue of his office and maintain communion with him so long as he occupies the Apostolic See.

As the Pope is our spiritual father, I think of an old family axiom: It's easy to love your relatives, but it's hard to like them. I like this Pope, but love and loyalty must precede considering his person.

Gratias said...

Long-Skirts, it is true there is a contradiction between my two posts. But such is reality for Catholics perhaps. Pax tecum.

Joseph Gryniewicz said...

To me loving the Pope is part of my trust of the Holy Ghost. Providence doesn't always make sense to me, yet I do what Pius X said to do. Sometimes I have failed. When Benedict XVI changed the Good Friday prayer, I ended up taking myself to the confessional to accuse myself of judging the Holy Father. I must believe that the Holy Spirit is still the soul of the Church, and I must cast my trust thereupon. This is my choice, and this is what it means for me to "love the Pope". It was not always so. Now I do not judge the Pope. Only God does that. I pray for Him. I love him. I hear his words. God will judge me for this, as He judges the Pope. I cast myself on His mercy.

Long-Skirts said...

Maura said:

"IRISH REDEMPTORISTS PROMOTE HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY. They actually used a novena to St Gerard to do it!"

PERE'S
POCKETS

The beginning of Wisdom
Is Fear of the Lord,
And Wisdom with age?
I’ve seen no accord.

So you’ve lived a few decades
Been to Rome twice
But what have you learned
That sinners are nice?

That sinners eat
And sinners drink
And sinners read
And sinners think

And sinners have
Sincere desires
Like remodeling rooms
With art that inspires

And compels one to lift
His goblet of wine
To toast all we want
And make want what is mine

So all in modern
Society
Shall acknowledge their versions
Of propriety

And when you die
They’ll bring goblets blessed lockets --
But they’ll realize too late
Pere’s shroud has no pockets!

Bernadette O'Hanlan said...

XSSPXER: I totally agree with your assessment and thank you for having the courage to express your views. At a recent tradtionalist conference where I was speaking informally with a couple of members of the SSPX, I raised the question of what they might do if the Holy Father decided to use the remedy of excommunication again. Their response: "BRING IT ON! We would wear the label "Excommunicated" boldly on our lapels!" They were filled with bravado and even what I would describe as positive excitement at the mere thought that their community would be officially declared as excommunicated. These were older men, well to do professionals, well educated. I was not surprised in the least at what they said. XSSPXER, you are not just a little correct - you are 200% correct. Praise God that you have responded to the Graces Our Lord has sent your way.

Long-Skirts said...

Bernadette O'Hanlan said...

"At a recent tradtionalist conference where I was speaking informally with a couple of members of the SSPX, I raised the question of what they might do if the Holy Father decided to use the remedy of excommunication again. Their response: "BRING IT ON!..."

Oh, Bernadette, so you "HEARD"...

Don't believe everything you hear. Real eyes, Realize, Real lies.

Bernadette goes on...

"XSSPXER, you are not just a little correct - you are 200% correct."

“It is not truth that matters, but victory.”

Now, here is something from an official SSPX member...

From the May 2012 issue of Seignadou, the newsletter of the chaplaincy (Father Michael Simoulin.) of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) for the schools of the Traditional Dominican Sisters of Fanjeaux (France):

Whatever the state of Rome may be, of all that still remains that is disturbing in Rome, plain common sense and honesty should lead us to consider the current situation with different eyes than those of 1988! Recalling the saying of one of our bishops, we cannot be “eighty-eighters”! We are neither in 1975 with Paul VI nor in 1988 with John Paul II, but in 2012 with Benedict XVI. It can be said as much as one may wish to that the state of the Church is still of great concern, that our Pope has a theology that is at times strange, etc… we have said it enough, it seems to me; but let it not be said that the state of things is the same as in 1988, or worse. This is contrary to the reality and to the truth, and it cannot but be the effect of a more or less secret refusal of any reconciliation with Rome, perhaps of a lack of faith in the holiness of the Church, composed of poor sinners but always governed by her head, Jesus Christ, and sanctified by the Holy Ghost. The Society of Saint Pius X is not the Church, and it can only “respect its founder’s heritage” by preserving his spirit, his love for the Church and his desire of serving her as a loving son, with faithfulness to her founding blessings.

THE
TRADITIONALIST
KNEELERS

We are St. Joan,
Philomena, Campion
The Faith in its whole
Is what we do champion.

We are St. Margaret
Pearl of York
Where the bowels of the Faith
They tried to torque.

We are Sir More
That’s Thomas the Saint
Whose reputation
They could not taint.

We are vocations
In Catholic Church kneeling
Adoring His presence
It’s not just a feeling.

We are descendents
Of Martyrs and beggin’
To stop all the men
Who are turning us pagan!

We are the poor
Uneducated ones
But in faith well-informed
The heretic shuns.

And when we are told,
“Don’t kneel anymore.”
Since we don’t hold doctorates…
We kneel and IGNORE!!

Don M said...

Long-skirts The traditionalist kneelers EXCELLENT!
If the owner of this site will permit it; I would like to suggest this book in honor of our English Catholic Forefathers.

THE OTHER FACE

CATHOLIC LIFE UNDER ELIZABETH I

COLLECTED AND EDITED BY PHILIP CARAMAN

Didimaya said...

...."We do not set above the authority of the Pope that of other persons, however learned, who dissent from the Pope, who, even though learned, are not holy, because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope."

~Saint Pius X

David of Glasgow said...

Part II

In his essay Determining the Content and Degree of Authority Of Church Teachings (The Thomist 72, 2008: 371-407), Dr John R. T. Lamont states that,

It is also necessary to interpret particular teachings in the context of Church teaching as a whole. All these teachings are issued by the same authority, which intends them to harmonize with and to interpret each other. The fact that teachings are intended to be read in the context of the whole of the Church's teaching is often explicitly stated in conciliar documents, in such phrases as "following the saintly fathers" (Chalcedon) or "following without deviation in a straight path after the saintly fathers" (Constantinople III); it was expressed at the Second Vatican Council in Dei Verbum 1 and Lumen gentium 51. The presumption is therefore that one teaching does not reject or contradict another, unless it is impossible to understand it except as doing so. The practice in the rare instances where a previous teaching is corrected by a subsequent one is for this correction to be made explicit (as in the condemnation by the Third Council of Constantinople of the teaching of Pope Honorius on Monothelitism).

This means that the meaning that we might attach to a teaching if taken in isolation may not be the meaning that we should understand as meant by the Church, when the whole of the Church's teaching is taken into account.


Indeed, on the face of it, it is difficult to see how the statement of St Pius X - "when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed" - can be harmonised with the prior, more authoritative teaching of Pope Paul IV that obedience to the Roman Pontiff does have certain limits - that there are "ifs" and "buts", albeit grave ones. But harmonised it must be (or else withheld assent pending further clarification) unless we are not to arbitrarily reject the magisterial teaching of a Roman Pontiff, namely Pope Paul IV, on the obedience due to the Roman Pontiff. A teaching, which as we have seen, has ancient precedents.

Truth Seeker said...

"BRING IT ON! We would wear the label "Excommunicated" boldly on our lapels!"

My constant prayer is to be delivered from either heresy or schism.

Didimaya said...

David of Glasgow,

You obviously have studied the situation carefully, and have taken care to find evidence for your position. Your learned views, however intellectual and well-intentioned they may be, do not trump the simple words of the saintly Pope: "...because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope."

sam said...

I believe that our prayers for the Pope and our fidelity to the Pope are essential to our Catholic Faith.

I believe that we have to find a less confrontational way of raising our grievances, while remaining steadfast in our resolve to live according to the Apostolic Tradition as instituted by Christ. In this way we show support to the Pope and strengthen his hand through out the Church in promoting the received Apostolic Tradition.

Barbara said...

I agree with you Sam but I also think confrontation for a Catholic about the present situation in the Church is also very important. It is quite hard for a serious Catholic to avoid direct confrontation nowadays with the mess inside the Church - and I think it is possible to be limpidly direct with the Pope -almost innocent, knowing he REPRESENTS Our Lord on this earth - we wouldn't want to waste his time now, would we? We can leave the superficial niceties to the modernist whose weapons are often the smile and the lie. Of course, it all depends on the manner in which it is done. I beleive that love for the Holy Father is not a sentimental issue - and it is also even possible to "love" Pope Paul VI despite his troubling and strange pontificate that opened up the floodgates of destruction in the aftermath of Vatican II. He did give us Humane Vitae - after all. And was such a complex man. I think the negativity about lack of love for Popes has its roots in subjective emotional hurts and anger. I have to work at possible resentment and anger all the time. There are so many luke-warm and ineffective priests where I live... temptations galore in wanting to tell them off - which I have done , in trepidation,armed with prayer, on occasion...

Always with Peter...
Barbara

sam said...

Barbara, I understand your point, and definitely superficial niceties and political correctness, are not the way to go given the problems they've created in the Church.

When Pope John Paul II kissed the quran, it demoralized Christians through out the middle-east and invigorated Muslims as they saw it as the Pope's submission to Islam. So being diplomatic, the call of post-WWII mentality in the West, can be disastrous.

This is why we know that a Pope can make grave errors in judgement, while still remaining Pope (by not using his teachings authority to promote teachings against doctrines and dogmas.)

So I guess the question is, how can we show support and love for the Pope while not accepting his errors in judgements that don't arise to formal heresy?

LeonG said...

The real theological problem here comes with reading other works of Pope St Pius X on the liberal modernists. Unfortunately, there is were the tension arises with the conciliar papacies. I can obey all papal teachings that square with the church's magesterium. However, modern ecclesiaistical ecumenism, inter religious functions, NO liturgical praxis and Teilhard de Chardin are personally out-of-bounds.

LeonG said...

Were it not for Archbishop Lefebvre and The SSPX I am sure many Roman Catholics who had had enough of the conciliar church would have either given up or become really sedevacantist. They deserve far more than many of the derogatory remarks we often hear about them. They have given many of us a safe place to be Roman Catholic.

Picard said...

Not-Spartacus:

again in accord with you!

All:

Well, I would like to love the Pope without all if´s and but´s - but that´s impossible (and even dangerous) in the current circumstances.

It would be very funny if it were not that earnest and severe that exactly with the Pope, who condemned modernism in the sharpest way, some think we were reminded to love another Pope without all if´s and but´s, who´s thinking and acting is imbued exactly by this same condemned modernism!

A good joke or "staircase wit" (as we say in German - "Treppenwitz der Geschichte"), weren´t it?!

Hidden One said...

Thank you, New Catholic, for this post.