St. Stephen is protomartyrised again!!!
Where the Turks failed, these Modernists have succeeded.
Step 1:Erzbischof Dr. Christoph Kardinal SchönbornWollzeile 21010 WienATorhttp://www.erzdioezese-wien.at/edw/erzbischof/kontaktemail
The Prefect of the Sacred Everything Has Changed Nothing Is Different Congregation cited the words of Our Holy Father -These are all subjects of great importance - they were the great themes of the second part of the Council - on which it is impossible to reflect more broadly in this context. It is clear that in all these sectors, which all together form a single problem, some kind of discontinuity might emerge. Indeed, a discontinuity had been revealed but in which, after the various distinctions between concrete historical situations and their requirements had been made, the continuity of principles proved not to have been abandoned. It is easy to miss this fact at a first glance in defending the appearance of the faux sisters in the Cathedral; The apparent discontinuity of having sisters singing a raucous elvis-style rock 'n' roll gospel in a sacred space formally devoted to Gregorian Chant and The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is to be understood as continuity because both forms of music have as their object praise of the One True God and both reference and make use of the good news in the Gospels and so while we may expect some soi disant traditionalists to object to this most recent performance, the fact is this performance truly is proof of continuity with Tradition.
The "rainbow" chausable says alot also. Lord help us.
Once again this happens in the neocon Schonborn's diocese. And, once again, all the neocons will say how shocked they are it happened.When are they finally going to stop being shocked? Balloon masses, Medjugorje, cowboy drunken masses, etc. This diocese is a train wreck.
If this is a Roman Catholic Holy Mass I am not Catholic...das ist aber schade!
Its not Catholic.
Seeing this caused me the throw up a little in my mouth. Disgusting.
Hey, these "Catholics" don't need to sign a "doctrinal preamble" and are in "full communion with Rome. They've embraced the spirit of Vatican II, unlike we narrow minded and rigid traditionalists who want the TLM as the ordinary form and the affirmation of de-fide Catholic dogma. Of course I'm being sarcastic but modernists like Schonborn really believe this, and we trads know that they do.
Hmmm. No amice....
I'm told its good for the young people, but most of tbe people looked as old as me or older. Maybe its me , but I don't get it.
So typical! It's like the gutter. How can anyone be surprised at what he finds in it.
count Scoenborn and his ilk are permanently leading the viennese Church- already under the late Card. Koenig a dominion of radical progressism- to the ultimate abyss and mere insignificance. In the meantime Less than 50% of the population are nominally catholic. The pews in the churches are empty or occupied by mohammedan infidels so called "refugies" (like in the Votivkirche).
Mohammedan occupiers "refugies" housingi the Votivkirche, built by His apostolic majesty Emp. Francis Joseph:http://derstandard.at/1355460129986/Fluechtlinge-in-der-Votivkirche
Look at the bright side, people. At least this congregation, its minister and congregation are in "full communion" with Benedict XVI... As for the faux "Sistas," at least they are wearing habits!
"Once again this happens in the neocon Schonborn's diocese. And, once again, all the neocons will say how shocked they are it happened."Gravitas, what is a neocon? They're people who try to pretend conservative and they're not? I don't get it. All I see in the Church today is shades of this Shoenborn stuff and traditionalists. Is "neocon" perhaps more a political term?
A neocon is a new conservative. In the Church it's your typical Father Z reader: politically conservative, liturgically liberal and Protestant, content with the Novus Ordo if there are no abuses. They are a bigger roadblock to restoration than liberals.
"Hey, these "Catholics" don't need to sign a "doctrinal preamble" and are in "full communion with Rome."Like it or not, that is correct.As for folks who need to sign preambles as per Pope Benedict XVI's instructions, said folks could regularize their situation in about two seconds.Unfortunately, said folks have refused to do so.Perhaps certain folks should look to the holy example as set forth by the FSSP.The FSSP's obedience to the Apostolic See has led to countless graces around the world.The Roman Pontiff teaches, governs and sanctifies The New Israel.Each orthodox Catholic falls into line with the Roman Pontiff.Unfortunately, there are certain "traditionalists" who believe that they are special...they play by their rules, not, if you will, the Pope's.God offers gentleness, kindness and peace to any person who will submit himself to Pope Benedict XVI's authority.Tom
"A neocon is a new conservative. In the Church it's your typical Father Z reader: politically conservative, liturgically liberal and Protestant..."Protestant?Tom
After viewing, you will need something to calm your soul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Qu15k24SA
To me this is more of a vision of hell than anything else. The rainbow chausable, the performer/enetertainer dressed (mocking) nuns steps so proudly down the steps like a demoness (she may not be in real life but in mocking like this whethre intentional or just misguided the effect is the same). Then also notice the proud altar woman. The whole thing is a demonic mess and I can't find anything else to say about it. One thing for sure though, we know God won't be mocked so.. chastisements a comin'.
@Gravitas said,A neocon is a new conservative. In the Church it's your typical Father Z reader: politically conservative, liturgically liberal and Protestant, content with the Novus Ordo if there are no abuses. They are a bigger roadblock to restoration than liberals."Neocon" is a political term originally coined to criticize American communists who opposed Soviet ideology. Later it was popularized by socialists to criticize a certain conservative mentality in the 70's. Even its current usage it would hardly describe a "typical Father Z reader."
The altar server is a woman or a man or bisexual?
Why would they let this happen in a cathedral? Then again I remember the brazilian party from a few months ago. I understand in a church hall or somewhere else. But in a sacred place?
I think the original "Sister Act" movie was more respectable than this garbage. Apparently they think if it worked in the movie, it will work for them... though I don't think the "nuns" from the original movie stood in front of the altar.
The feminisation of the Catholic Church.A woman altar-boy in traditional cassock and cotta and......a male priest with a rainbow chasuble...and the gals performing right in front of them......well, the Mass is the "gathering at the table" now......and the Church is turning into a public house.Barona and Fidus et Audax (16:21), so right.
Long-Skirts, where are you? We really can use some of your first-class doggerel now!"Police" Navidad!
I am not Spartacus (28.Dec. 2012, 15:44):Excellent - made me lol!("Everything Has Changed Nothing Is Different" - yes, that hits the nail on the head [as we in Germany say - can you say so in English?] - an, btw., as I repeatedly pointed to yet/now: it is the modern hermeneutics, coming from SCHLEIERMACHER, GADAMER etc., used by Müller, Di Noia, etc.)Here on rorate the cultural niveau is getting better and better - I speak of real culture, of course, instead of the Sister-Act-pseydo-culture: the poems of Long-Scirt, the Satires of Non-Spartacus, ...Very amousing resp. exhilerating, refreshing and uplifting! And clear & to the point, hitting the nail exactly, as said. Thanks!But btw. II, as I am still not allowed to post more than one special word on your blog I must write it here instead of on your blog (becaus here I am allowed to write more - if my comment is not deleted and I beg the admins not to block this my comment!):I am deeply impressed by your humility and straightforwardness in changing your mind and utterances and even in confessing that you erred / were blind and are only now and slowly coming to recognize reality.That's not inhonorable but v.v. very honorable and manly! Thanks, congrats and may GOD bless you!But if you really see that your old accusations against some Trads, esp. the sspx, was wrong or at least not necessarily right (so even if you do not agree with all points of the sspx - what you do not need!) then you must also recognize that your harsh criticism was both unjust and against charity - and then it is not enough to close your blog resp. to delete all your harsh accusations but it is a duty of charity as well as of justice (because of having given public scandal and spread confusion amongst your readers and having harmed the repute of many Trads and esp. the sspx) to apologize and repudiate your harsh words in the same public way! For the glory of God and the salvation of souls.Thanks in anticipation / advance!Please pray for me because I am a very poor sinner in need of prayer, especially this days! May GOD pay you back & bless you!
Alzheimer's of the Church
Dear Picard. Thanks for your kind words in the context of calling me to account and you are correct in what you write when you write that I do owe others an apology.Relying upon the kindness and patience of New Catholic, I desire to publicly apologise for all of the nasty ripostes and savage attacks I launched against the SSPX and those who succor it. I am sorry I wrote what I did and I desire that what I wrote will be forgotten and that I did will be forgiven.As a man who has the blood of both the Irish and the Injun in me, I , far too often, rashly rush into a fight and start shooting off my mouth at everyone within sight but due to the small caliber nature of my intellect, I just end up blowing my mind (and killing grace as collateral damage) when I start shooting off my mouth that way.I confess I have been cruel in my rhetoric towards others and judgmental of others whose wisdom far exceeds (and by decades preceded) any of the late-arriving-difficult-to-continue-denying experience of reality I have, finally, awakened to.Please accept my apology, one and all, - but, because I have long specialised in error - I can not promise any particular results, only intent.And I intend to be act differently in the future.One final note though - allowing you only to write "Bauxite" on my crummy blog was funny; you have to admit that
God that''s revolting are you trying to give me a heart attack at 40? :-)
Gravitas, what is a neocon? They're people who try to pretend conservative and they're not? I don't get it. All I see in the Church today is shades of this Shoenborn stuff and traditionalists. Is "neocon" perhaps more a political term?"Neocon," short for "neoconservative," is a bit of traditionalist Catholic in-house jargon that refers to orthodox Catholics who fully accept with little or no hesitation the authority and authenticity of Vatican II and the post-Vatican II liturgical revolution, who tend to see Vatican II and its aftermath as generally good things (with the negative things being the fruit of a parasitical "spirit of Vatican II" rather than coming from or required by the council and the post-conciliar reforms themselves), and who tend to oppose theological liberalism/Modernism and liturgical abuses.If I recall correctly, it was Chris Ferrara and Thomas Woods Jr. who came up with the term "neo-Catholic" in their book "The Great Facade," drawing an analogy from the schism in U.S. political conservatism between so-called "Palaeoconservatives" and so-called "Neoconservatives." Palaeoconservatism retains the traditional U.S. conservative insistence on truly "small" limited government, high tariffs, strict immigration controls, and a cautious foreign policy that eschews foreign entanglements and contemns the UN and international law, while neoconservatism is reconciled to a larger, more expansive federal government (what Pres. George W. Bush called "compassionate conservatism), globalist trade, looser immigration standards, and active involvement in the UN with a readiness to use military force to defend or advance U.S. interests. In addition, neoconservatism was shaped by former liberals who converted to conservative ideology (or conservative-ish ideology at any rate), and many of its chief proponents were and are Jewish -- consequently and not at all surprisingly, neoconservatism is decidedly pro-Israel despite Israel's leftist/socialist founding and constitution. In contrast, palaeoconservatism is not only skeptical of support for Israel but often in opposition to or even hostile to Israel -- and it tends to retain a strain of the old anti-semitism that was a former trait of U.S. political conservatism. Palaeoconservatives tend to see neoconservatives as not true conservatives at all, but really crypto-liberals.(Continued . . .)
Ferrara and Woods, being American Catholics who held to palaeoconservative political views (Woods has since become a libertarian devotee of Ludwig von Mises, but I for one am unconvinced by his attempts to reconcile the classical liberal ideology of von Mises with the Catholic Faith), likened if not exactly equated Catholic traditionalists to American palaeocons, and likened if not exactly equated orthodox "conservative" Catholics to American neoconservatives, with traditional U.S. conservative ideology being like traditional Catholic teaching and liturgy, and neoconservatism being like post-Vatican II Catholic "conservatism." Like U.S. neoconservative proponents tended to be "converts" such as Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz, and Father Richard John Neuhaus, so traditionalists point to Catholic converts such as Scott Hahn, Father Brian Harrison, Mark Shea, or Dave Armstrong as so-called "neocon" Catholics. Just as political palaeocons tend to view political neocons as false conservatives, so too Catholic traditionalists tend to view non-traditionalist orthodox Catholics as crypto-modernists. At times traditionalists even level accusations of false conversion against those that they, since Ferrara and Woods, call "neocons" -- and anti-semitic traditionalist Catholics have sometimes even accused them of being crypto-Jews secretly and intentionally working to destroy the Church from within. (The more virulently anti-semitic traditionalists will even accuse non-anti-semitic traditionalists of being crypto-Jewish "neocons," and, notably, some of them have even been known to make a play on our blogowner's screen name "New Catholic," calling him "Neo-Catholic" just because he doesn't harbor any hatred for Jews and does not tolerate anti-semitic vitriol here.)I've never had any use for the Ferrara/Woods transfer of these terms to discourse on the Catholic Faith, because they unconsciously set 20th-century Anglo-political ideology as the lens through which to view the unadulterated and perennial faith of the Apostles, which transcends and trumps all human politics. The analogy is understandable, but is very limited and consequently misleading. But then, as I've previously mentioned, I don't even like the label "traditionalist," even though most liberal/Modernists probably think that's what I am, while many traditionalists think I'm a "neocon" or worse. Whatever. Call me what you like. I'm just a sinner who is grateful beyond any ability to express in words for having been brought into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, trying my darnedest to cooperate with God's grace so I can escape hell and attain heaven and bring as many people along with me as my pitiful efforts can capture in my nets in need of mending. (As an aside, the very term "neoconservative" was coined by a Socialist critic of the "founding fathers" of neoconservatism -- Irving Kristol subsequently embraced the epithet. Kind of funny to me that a word coined by a Socialist is now part of the Catholic traditionalist lexicon, but then I've get a pretty weird sense of humor. Or, if you ask my wife and kids, a pretty lame sense of humor.)
Thank you for the explanation Jordanes - extremely helpful to me. Personally I too, tire of all the labels that are tossed around in Catholic circles - especially since a new one seems to be invented every other week! Crypto this- Crypto that, Tradi-protestants - Radi-Trads etc. I realise these labels are used in order to distinguish "different viewpoints and parties" but I don't like them as they are often used disparagingly - to offend and insult. 2 years before Summorum Pontificum i.e. before I discovered the Old Rite had never been abrogated and was somewhat ignorant of things "traditional" I was called a "levebrvian" by fellow parishioners just because I made available Pope Benedict's document on the liturgy "Sacramentum Caritatis" - you can imagine what happened to me when I found out about the Motu Proprio of 7/7/2007 - complete alienation - for following the history of the Church. All this and I knew practically nothing about Archbishop Lefebrve - except the name and some sweeping/prejudiced judgments on him. I remember being vaguely offended - associating in my mind the good Archbishop with backwardness/ rigidty... and was highly defensive. Today I would not be offended at all - as I have discovered that Archbishop Lefevbre was a remarkable and holy man always faithful to Mother Church. But that's another story.Despite the pain, rejection and misunderstanding from many, many Catholics especially fellow- parishioners (don't get me wrong they smile and are kind - but from a great distance) - I have never been more secure and happier in my Catholic Faith since I discovered the Old Mass and all that goes along with it. In my view prejudice and ignorance and stubborness and even insecurity are the parents of these "labels" that are so casually and often vindictively tossed around, thus tearing "the seamless garment". I think intellectual honesty and rigorous personal housecleaning are a must if one wishes to be free of all these labels and simply be called (to the scorn the world - but who cares?) - A Roman Catholic. I say these things because I have experienced all of them - ignorance, prejudice, fear,going along with the crowd out of human respect - not wanting to be thought of as rigid and old fashioned,looking down on people because they are not of my ilk,(whatever that is!!!) insecurity. Intertwined with all this messy stuff was the single- minded desire in my heart to search for the truth of Our Lord - and that was (and is) my constant prayer. I have to keep a check on myself - that I don't slip and slide again into the intellectual fog of just a short time ago.. hence I identify greatly with what you wrote:"I don't even like the label "traditionalist," even though most liberal/Modernists probably think that's what I am, while many traditionalists think I'm a "neocon" or worse. Whatever. Call me what you like. I'm just a sinner who is grateful beyond any ability to express in words for having been brought into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, trying my darnedest to cooperate with God's grace so I can escape hell and attain heaven and bring as many people along with me as my pitiful efforts can capture in my nets in need of mending."Yes that's where I am...absolutely. A blessed New Year to you and your family...Barbarap.s. One label to keep - The Modernists - who ruined everything - and created this confusion ---
In response to the neocon term. Alot of catholics due to the internet and social media, summorum, parishes now offering the tlm, are slowely discovering the true mass. Many of us(including me) have vaguely known about the old mass and nothing more, until all those things and the holy ghost called us. There are tons of faithful catholics that just are not educated on the tlm. We have to be patient with them and avoid and giving them lables. The destruction might of happened overnight, but the restoration won't.
Dear IANS:I do not know if you still follow this thread - but in hoping so:At first: Happy - blessed - new year to you and all your beloved!And then: yes, I admit, that bauxite-thing was funny, indeed. But my reaction to also, wasn't it?! ( I can remember that you re-reacted with a "lol" or sth. like that so seems to have been funny in your eyes!)And I did not think about you apologizing&retracting expressely here on rorate - I do not think that this was necessary -, but on your own blog, the southernvermontcrank blogspot, where you perhaps cemented some prejudices and unsound reasoning in others who read what you wrote.But perhaps it is also not necessary there because intelligent people will probably get the message of "Good bye" there even when not apologizing&retracting expressely.Again GOD bless you and again begging you to pray for meYours in CHrist through Mary"Bauxite-Picard" ;-)
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