Rorate Caeli

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The last Cardinal-Elector (excluding the two others who forewarned they would not come), Vietnamese Cardinal Jean-Baptiste Pham Minh Man, arrived today, and took part in the sixth General Congregation, the second of the day. The Holy See spokesman informed that no decision was taken on the date of the beginning of the conclave.

39 comments:

FB said...

www.adoptacardinal.org

I recommend this, it seems to raise awareness of the power of prayer.

Prof. Basto said...

Do we know if the Cardinals who will not come have already been given formal leave of absence under art. 38 of Universi Dominici gregis?

"38. All the Cardinal electors, convoked for the election of the new Pope by the Cardinal Dean, or by another Cardinal in his name, are required, in virtue of holy obedience, to obey the announcement of convocation and to proceed to the place designated for this purpose, unless they are hindered by sickness or by some other grave impediment, which however must be recognized as such by the College of Cardinals."

At least the one Cardinal who is sick would be entitled to that formal recognition that he is not disobeying the summons, but that he is actually impeded.

Titus said...

"Do we know if the Cardinals who will not come have already been given formal leave of absence under art. 38 of Universi Dominici gregis?"

I don't. I don't know if there has been any statement one way or another. But Dr. Peters seemed to think that their public expression of intention not to attend caused them to cease counting unless, in the case of the Indonesian cardinal only, he happened to show up.

Benedict Carter said...

Prof. Basto:

Would the other be O'Brien? His status ("I'm not coming") is formally in opposition to the requirement of holy obedience you cite. On what official basis can his decision not to attend be based? Is there one do you think?

NBW said...

@FB- Yes, the Adopt a Cardinal is a great idea. I have signed on to pray for 2 cardinals. We need to pray hard for these cardinals so that they are open to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Ferraiuolo said...

Given now even the Swiss Bishops have approved of the morning-after pill, the next Pope will not come without any opposition.


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/swiss-bishops-approve-morning-after-pill-in-cases-of-rape

Prof. Basto said...

He who misses the Conclave without a leave of absence cannot enter it. He who has a leave of absence can appear if the impediment is removed before the election takes place.

In any case, the number required for election is the number of those who are present in the conclave.

Leave of absence is granted on the basis of sickness (duly attested by physicians, and the Constitution has strict norms about that) or on the basis of some other grave impediment.

But the impediment due to sickness or some other grave cause needs to be recognized as an actual impediment by the College of Cardinals. The College of Cardinals has to decide.

Will the Cardinals grant leave of absence in the situation of O'Brien? If not, ok, we know that he will not come regardless, but then he will be in violation of the summons. And the summons binds in virtue of holy obedience.

Then there is the matter of the start of the Conclave, and the possibility of the College deciding to anticipate the start of the Conclave, instead of waiting for the 15th day of Sede Vacante.

The norm of law says that this anticipation can be decided if all the electors have arrived. I know that Peters seems to think that the statement by the two cardinals that they won't come is enough to exclude them so that the other Cardinals need not wait for them, but I wonder.

Have they said formally that they won't come, full stop, or have they asked for leave of absence? If they claimed impediment, then, under art. 38 of UDG, isn't the deliberation by the Cardinals about the legitimacy of the impediment necessary?

Can a Cardinal be counted as not coming for the purposes of an early start of the conclave if no leave of absence was given?

GQ Rep said...

I think that the Cardinals have not mentioned the date for the beginning of the conclave because the disaster in the Church is so grave, and the scabdals involving the Vatican so massive, that they want to learn all they can to pick the right man to handle all of this.

Seeing the very unacceptable list of names so far being presented as the strongest potential Popes (Turkson, Ravasi, Ouellett, Mariadiaga, Bergoglio,O'Malley, Dolan, Sandri) it will take a miracle of the Holy Spirit to discard this group of unacceptable "Popes", and pick the one man out of the 115 who will do the best job, and be an example of holiness and faithfulness to Catholic tradition.

More and more I am lead to believe that the rot in the Vatican (cliques and cabals of dissidents lead by Sodano etc.) did not allow for benedict XVI to do his job...so he gave up early on, and after this final report was presented to him by three traditional minded Cardinals who are not influenced by the mob of dissenters in the Curia, Benedict XVI chose to give up completely, and hand off the mess created by the administration of the last 30+ years to a younger man.

Let us pray for a Pope like Pius X or Pius XII....someone who might even take that name.

Another Benedict would be a fitting tribute to a man who I don;t think really intended to resign when he accepted the job in 2005! But it has been made unbearable.
A Pius XIII or a Beedict XVIII has a nice sound to it...or a Leo XIV or Gregory XVII.....but not some other recent Papal names. No please God...no more of them.

Francis in Ma said...

If the next Pope (hopefully God willing it will be either Cardinal Bagnasco, Piacenza, Burke or Ranjinth) took the names of Innocent XIV or Leo XIV I would be happy. As long is he doesn't take John XXIV, Paul VII or John Paul III

Petrus said...

The new pope needs to be a lion. Therefore, the regnal name Leo XIV seems appropriate.

GQ Rep said...

"Petrus said...
The new pope needs to be a lion. Therefore, the regnal name Leo XIV seems appropriate."

I can thinnk of only 4 who are lions in the true sense....lions who defend the Catholic Faith and it's traditions"
Ranjinth, Burke, Bagnasco, Piacenza. Also Cipriani Thorne of Lima, Peru. But sad to say I can't think of any more.

Four or five fairly good men, out of a veritable sea of zeros.
The odds are not good.

But perhaps the Lord will surprise us, and all the rot that has been mentioned as the coming new Pope will be passed over.

Wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth for Sodano and his cronies if all their efforts were for nothing !!!

Jerome said...

Well, I have tried this site adoptacardinal.org and I was been proposed to adopt His Eminence Cardinal Roger Mahony..

Van Knackular said...

Show time.

Muv said...

Jerome,

You agreed to pray for the Holy Ghost to inspire a Cardinal, whoever was allocated to you. You have to stick to it. The whole point is that you cannot choose who you get. It's a bit like having kids, really.

Given the choice, I wouldn't have picked out the Cardinal I have had allocated to me, but he's the one I will be holding dear in my prayers once the conclave starts.

InTerramDiligereEstPati said...

...Well, he does need prayer. Did'nt Our Lady of Fatima say that some souls go to hell because no one prays for them?

Common Sense said...

Correct observation GQ Rep.Should the Bunch elect likes ein groster Kardinal of WIEN, C. Schonborn,wouldnt be that wish come true for dialog and ecumenical bussiness council Inc?

Anonymous said...

Well then pray for the guy Jerome. lol seriously. I really wish that Cardinal Joseph Zen of HK was under 80. He is a lion comparable to few and his mix of Chinese discipline/work ethic and traditional orthodoxy is golden. -Jonathan

marcel w said...

Jerome, Adopt a Cardinal gave me +Policarpo of 'let's consider ordaining women' fame. I think it is good we shall be praying for the liberals too. That their vote will be cast correctly, or if incorrectly, then not decisively. Best if all we are praying that Mother Mary Immaculate change their hearts. My wife got the Austrian Prince so it was ironic groans all around...

Ma Tucker said...

Well Jerome, it is lent :)

backtothefuture said...

I got Joachim Meisner from cologne germany

Prof. Basto said...

I've subscribed to adopt a Cardinal, and was assigned the Cardinal from Berlin, Rainer Maria Woelki.

This seems to be a worthy spiritual project.

Michael Y. said...

I agree it is not too promising from the Cardinals that we have and all the politicking and manuevering is distasteful, but as this has been going on for centuries I guess we should not expect much better.

However, the old saying is that "man proposes and God disposes". We might be surprised yet. However, sparse the pickings are, it will have to be out of this bunch. This may not be the group that picks a St. Pius X type, but someday. The Lord will not leave us bereft forever. Someday, someday.

And despite all the politicking maybe, just maybe, there is a someone that will rise up. It will have to be one that will see things clearly on a Cardinal level, just like a Fr. Michael Rodriguez saw it on the parish level. It will happen, all we need to do is do what is in our power to do and that is pray and sacrifice.

justin said...

Does anyone know when Schonborn started behaving oddly?

He's a Thomist, he's a Dominican (surely the most orthodox of the 'big' orders), his books (published by Ignatius press) are marvellous - almost Ratzingerian in quality, and he was by all accounts Card Ratzinger's biggest supporter in the 2005 conclave - one cardinal even spoke of Schonborn's attitude in the last conclave thusly:

"When you talked to other cardinals about Ratzinger, most of them would say, yes, he's a good candidate, but there's also this man or that man," one cardinal recalled. "Not Schönborn. For him, it was God's will that Ratzinger be pope, and that was it."

Also, given his close collaboration with Card Ratzinger in the compilation of the CCC, there was much hope (at least by myself and friends) that he would be appointed Prefect of CDF.

But, but...then he started getting weirder and weirder....the Austrian Church is now in disarray and all he seems to be known for now is his odd affinity to the heresy in Medjugorje.

Anyone any clues what happened to him? How did he become one of the Church's most loyal princes to this??

(He's my cardinal in adoptacardinal btw, and I'm really happy to pray for him, because deep down inside I suspect there's something there that could be of great use for the Church.)

Prof Adamic said...

"I can thinnk of only 4 who are lions in the true sense....lions who defend the Catholic Faith and it's traditions"
Ranjinth, Burke, Bagnasco, Piacenza. Also Cipriani Thorne of Lima, Peru. But sad to say I can't think of any more."

Indeed. But I believe the only one of these that has any sort of a realistic chance is Bagnasco.

Cardinal Bagnasco is a lion; but he is smart, speaks multiple languages, is head of the italian episcopal conference, and some other good things. To me, he just looks like a Pope...take a look at the photos here:

http://www.santegidio.org/index.php?pageID=250&idLng=1062

...no major negatives with him. He is obviously friendly to tradition. What I find interesting (I realize I am jumping the gun...a lot...) is the question of how he would deal with the SSPX. It is hard to say. I think he would see them as allies, but might not be as patient as Pope Benedict. I think it hinges on how Cardinal Bagnasco views Vatican II.

Benedict Carter said...

I'm persuaded.

I got Josip Bozanić of Croatia.

El Cid said...

I don't understand the appeal of championing papal names that have already been used several times over. Some of those names (dare I say) are simply freighted with too much history.

Why not a Pope Augustine I? Pachomius I? Even an Athanasius III? Or, in the case of a prelate from India, Pope Thomas I? There's something to invoking the name of an early Church Father or lesser-known apostle that signals a fresh start based on the orthodoxy of the past.

As for me, the adopted cardinal I'm praying for is +Oswald Gracias, Archbishop of Bombay.

Matt said...

Prof. Basto said, He who misses the Conclave without a leave of absence cannot enter it.

Well, since they aren't coming, I don't think it matters they can't get in.

We don't know their circumstances nor whether the Dean has granted their leave. In any case, they won't be there so the College just has to move on.

Johannes de Silentio said...

Who knows, Jerome, perhaps the choice of Mahoney is an indication that your prayers are especially efficacious. I have the easy task of praying for Cardinal Cañizares Llovera, who, from my merely human vantage point, seems not to need very many prayers.

Gus Barbarigo said...

What about the election of a non-cardinal? (Abp. Charles Chaput has endured civil trials of priests, laid-off workers, reformed the schools, reformed the seminary, reformed the press/media outlets, allows the TLM in his archdiocese, and gives speeches on conservative topics around the country. And he's getting the next World Meeting of families, as a sign of Benedict's favor. I'd rather he'd gotten the red hat, but +Rigali has one from that see.)

Gus Barbarigo said...

What about the election of a non-cardinal? (Abp. Charles Chaput has endured civil trials of priests, laid-off workers, reformed the schools, reformed the seminary, reformed the press/media outlets, allows the TLM in his archdiocese, and gives speeches on conservative topics around the country. And he's getting the next World Meeting of Families, as a sign of Benedict's favor. I'd rather he'd gotten the red hat, but +Rigali has one from that see.)

Mary Kay said...

I got Geraldo Majella Cardinal Agnelo of Sao Salvador, Brazil. does anyone know anything about him? If nothing else this certainly is a help to intensify my prayer life.

Mar said...

@ El Cid,
Cardinal Gracias is also my adopted cardinal!

I had not heard of him before. Doing a little research, I found out that Benedict XVI had appointed him Archbishop of Bombay in 2006 and had made him a cardinal in 2007. Benedict XVI had also named him a member of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts in 2008 and of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in 2010. Mid-2012 he was was appointed a member of the
Congregation for Catholic Education and later that year chosen by the Pope to serve as one of the papally-appointed Synod Fathers for the upcoming October 2012 Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops on the New Evangelization. All these bits of information seemed like signs of hope.

Alas! The hope vanished very quickly when I discovered that among his own laity he is known as the one who endorses the Hindu discipline of yoga and promotes the yoga priest Fr. John Ferreira. At a book release event for Fr. Ferreira's book, "Health, Wealth and Happiness through Yoga" Cardinal Gracias - who is the president of the Catholic Bishops Conference of India - said: "Through the prescribed postures and exercises one improves one's all round sense of well being and is able to enter into oneself so as to commune better with God."

The Cardinal is also perceived as doing nothing to stop the scandal of “GOCHI” (corruption) that is going on in many parishes in Bombay. Here is what some of the
faithful have to say.

1. Cardinal Oswald Gracias contradicts the voice of the Catholic Church. How can [he] be fit to elect a Pope if [he has] not done anything to stop corruption in the Indian Church.

2. Catholics in India wonder what will befall the universal Church if Cardinal Oswald Gracias were to be elected Pope.

3. As far as Oswald Gracias becoming Pope goes, the world will see a new brand of money grabbing and corruption Indian style.

Uncle Claibourne said...

Bagnasco, who will take the name Gregory XVII, in honor of Cardinal Siri, and Gregory XII, the last to resign, in honor of our Papa Emeritus.

Given what we know at this point, our best hope.

Miserere nobis, Domine, miserere nobis.

Prof. Basto said...

Andrea Tornielli:

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/vaticano/dettaglio-articolo/articolo/22983/

He seems to think that several votes will converge upon Scola, seen as "marked" by Benedict XVI for the job with his unusual transfer from the Patriarchate of Venice to the larger See of Milan, and who Cardinal Camillo Ruini in 2007 desired as his successor in the presidency of the Italian Episcopal Conference (the Pope would have made the appointment, but Bertone convinced him to choose Bagnasco).

Tornielli also points out that Scherer could receive many votes, supported by an alliance of prelates from Re to Sodano, although the letter won't be in the Conclave. So, this could be a Scola vs. Scherer dispute.

But Tornielli also mentions other names that could emerge, such as Marc Ouellet, Peter Erdö, the alternative Latin Americans Bergoglio, Robles Ortega and Rodriguez Maradiaga, the "outsider Ranjith", Tagle and, from the U.S., O'Malley, who he says is also linked to Scola by relations of esteem.

Anonymous said...

If these two Cardinals wont come and the conclave proceeds, is the election of the new pope valid? If not, is it correct to conclude that he is an anti-pope? Daniel Rosaupan

Ora et Labora said...

I too adopted a cardinal, and I got Cardinal Paolo Romeo.

I will definately be praying for him, cardinal Paolo Romeo is 75 and for sure will voting in the Conclave so I pray the Holy Spirit will guide him to make the right choice for the good of the Church.

I have also been praying for a couple of cardinals who I think-well... either one of them will make a good pope for Holy Mother Church.

But...as someone said earlier I proposed, God disposes.

Mar said...

Cardinal Paolo Romeo is featured in this interesting article which appeared just over a year ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099276/The-Pope-victim-assassination-plot-year-claims-senior-Vatican-cardinal.html

Anonymous said...

Cardinal Bagnasco is much involved in political affairs in Italy, as much of our episcopal council. Beside he has two very bad apples in his diocese, one priest recently found guilty of paedophily and drug abuse, and another communist and very probably homosexual. Cardinal Bagnasco has done nothing to prevent o stop these two awful priests ! And if C.Bertone had the Pope choose him, it' s all said !
Rosa, Milan, Italy

Ora et Labora said...

Mar I also read a couple of articles on this subject and I too thought it was interesting.


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