Rorate Caeli

Fr. Lombardi, Holy See spokesman, defends legal recognition of non-marital "unions" of two persons?

Father Federico Lombardi, SJ, spokesman of the Holy See, to journalists assembled at the headquarters of the Association of the Foreign Press in Rome, on April 24:


"[I]t is a good thing for the child to know that he has a father and a mother"; [it must be] "made clear that matrimony between a man and a woman is a specific and fundamental institution in the history of mankind. This does not prevent that other forms of union between two persons may be recognized".

(Source: Rossa PorporaH/T: Secretum meum mihi, on our sidebar).

42 comments:

Katalina said...

This is the third high ranking to support "civil unions" in the recent weeks. First we had the comment of the Cardinal Of Vienna Austria who helped by "You CAT" and the CCC in the early 1990's. Then just a couple of weeks ago we heard the same from Archbishop Piero Marini the former Masters of Ceremony for the Papal Household. Now we have the comments from Fr Lombardi who got an award recently.

Supertradmum said...

Oh no

Marko Ivančičević said...

lolwut

Jessica said...

Can anyone provide a link? I can't seem to find it and I have been going through the Vatican News site and its side sites. Thank yuo.

Barbara said...

Another one bites the dust. Also Archbishop Paglia (President of the Holy See's Pontifical Council for the Family) a few months ago said more or less the same thing. Not to mention Cardinal Dolan's...absolutely wishy washy cringing approach on the subject...

And there are more ...too many.

God help us, the leaders have lost their heads...

The mind cannot take in this madness...the faithful are on their own...

Adfero said...

The link is above next to source.

Hayfarmer said...

What "other forms of union" and recognized by whom? Perhaps he is thinking of business partnerships, corporations, carpools--recognized by secular organizations or governments.

Danger, danger Will Robinson!

D. Harold said...

Be sure when Father Federico Lombardi, SJ, spokesman of the Holy See,made this statement he didn't ONLY do it expressing his own 'opinion' but was clearly 'briefed' about it before hand by much Higher Holy See Authorities on what to say! Guy's like this don1t put themselves out on 'limbs' unnecessarily- believe me! Obviously it was not an 'off the cuff' remark but something clearly that he had previously been briefed on by his Superiors. By the way who are his Superiors!

mundabor said...

Would love to know the circumstances of this. In Italy there is constant talk of allowing heterosexual couples who aren't married to have certain privileges now only applied to married couples (the law of succession, say; the visit in hospitals) and he might have referred to heterosexual situation.

But as the comment is, I'd wait to be sure this comment is like Paglia's.

In the meantime, I would suggest to mistrust Jesuits.

All of them.

Mundabor

Liam Ronan said...

@Barbara
The Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Akita, Japan,
to Sr. Agnes Sasagawa
October 13, 1973
"My dear daughter, listen well to what I have to say to you. You will inform your superior."
After a short silence:
"As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests."
"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.
"The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them"
"With courage, speak to your superior. He will know how to encourage each one of you to pray and to accomplish works of reparation."
"It is Bishop Ito, who directs your community."
And She smiled and then said:
"You have still something to ask? Today is the last time that I will speak to you in living voice. From now on you will obey the one sent to you and your superior."
"Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved."

This apparition has episcopal approval.

New Catholic said...

Hi, everyone, thank you for your prayers.

He said "two persons", Mundabor, not "a man and a woman", which he could certainly have said.

Jason Czmiel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dan Hunter said...

I do not believe that this approval of a sodomite union would ever meet with the abrobation of the Holy Father.

Sodomite unions are a sin crying to heaven for vengeance and the Church would never allow a child to be taken care of and raised by sodomite.

Titus said...

Why is there a Vatican Press Office? This is absurd. It's not the first time this year even that Fr. Lombardi has wandered off the reservation (whether on his own or under instructions). The Holy See does not need press conferences: they sow discord and confusion in the Magisterium. Hang a sign on the door with Mass and Confession times and a telephone number to call for other sacramental arrangements. The reporters can read the AAS if they want to know what the Holy See says on a topic.

douglassbartley said...

Fr. Lombardi is the proverbial trial balloon. He knows that F. supports civil unions; is only preparing us for the pontifical announcement; and hoping that the outcry of the faithful and criticism of F. will have low decibels--more like a drop of a pin than the din of an explosion of moral heresy.

Uncle Claibourne said...

Well, Dan Hunter.... It was recently pointed out that Cardinal Bergoglio permitted, in the cathedral of Buenos Aires, the public baptism of two children who were adopted by a man and his transsexual (male->female) "wife."***

And John Allen of NCR reported that, despite denials to the contrary, Cardinal Bergoglio did support civil unions as an alternative to gay marriage in Argentina. Would he then oppose them as Pope? I suppose it's possible, but the signs do not look promising.

*** Note that baptizing the children isn't the issue; the public celebration in the cathedral, with the "couple" and a large number of guests and media present, IS a problem.


douglassbartley said...

To what I just said above concerning civil unions, I might add that the next phase of this "renovationism" will be the end of priestly celibacy (which F. has described as not required). Then when celibacy is trashed, will homosexual priests be allowed civil unions?

The floodgates of revolution and relativism are opened first to release only relatively tiny trickle; but as pressure for more and more precedent-based "reform" builds, the gates will have to opened to torrent level.

Ad Quem Ibimus? said...

Saying it is ok for these unions is turning a blind eye to the sin, but I suppose the church does nothing about co habitation for normal couples, so yeah, let's just follow the trend.

What rot!

God have mercy on us, please!

Ad Quem Ibimus? said...

Oh and who is the father of sin? Now papa Francis said if you do not preach Christ, you preach satan, what is happening to our church... Just when the woods start to clear, they open up into just another forest!

John said...

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

It's like this document was never written. The whole thing is excellent, but here are some choice quotes from this excellent document written by our beloved Ratzinger, approved and ordered for publication by Bl. John Paul II:

"Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. ... 'Under no circumstances can they be approved.'"

"Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil."

"In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty."

"Laws in favour of homosexual unions are contrary to right reason because they confer legal guarantees, analogous to those granted to marriage, to unions between persons of the same sex. Given the values at stake in this question, the State could not grant legal standing to such unions without failing in its duty to promote and defend marriage as an institution essential to the common good."

OK, I keep giving quotations from the document, but I'm realizing that the whole thing is really excellent and I'm just going to wind up copying and pasting the whole thing into this comment. I would recommend that everyone read it. Maybe the Rorate moderators would like to post it in its entirety?

Hayfarmer said...

Whoever condones recognition of homosexual activity under the guise of civil union, whether he be laity or pope, is he not guilty of material heresy?

Long-Skirts said...

PERVERSE
PRETENSE

I send our children
To the slaughter
Two sons of six
And now a daughter.

Why encourage
Sacrifice
Staying poor
But pay high price?

Giving all
To those in need
Suffer wounds
For Mother's Creed?

All for Him
Take the thorn
Then ignored
Not worth their scorn.

Not worth the bother,
As feminists fail,
A wasted life
That takes the nail.

Where daily climb
Upon the Cross
Some Roman men
Count them as loss

But worry of
Debased desires
"No need forgo"
Just stoke those fires.

And at your legal
Unions wink,
"We don't condone
Though aid your kink."

Cassocks, habits, Vatican Two
In reverse --
Forward couples' Civil Unions
We'll pretend aren't perverse.

elfrancoloco said...

QueeringTheChurch is quite pleased with recent developments, and also quite clear that these miserable excuses for clerics are openly contravening guidance from the CDF:

http://queeringthechurch.com/2013/04/21/how-bishops-support-for-civil-unions-is-modifying-church-teaching/

My opinion? The homoheretics are bolting like spinach in the dog-day sun. They know their season is over, and are going to seed, but they're completely sterile. At best they're providing last-ditch cover to nominally Catholic politicians, so that more secular governments will gain a hammer to wield against the Church. But ultimately they will fail. There never was and never will be a holy sacrament of buggery. The gates of Hell, etc.

We can hope that Pope Francis has sought and accepted the grace to become a true and valiant successor of Saint Peter. In this life, we will never know what spiritual warfare he and Pope Emeritus Benedict are waging. Perhaps the fight within the walls goes so well, that God's enemies within the Church are bolting to spread error while they still can.

If the Church does go queer.... but no -- even to think so betrays what Bp. Fellay would call a lack of supernatural outlook!

Michael Ortiz said...


God will not let His Church, from the Chair of Peter, teach universally an error in regard to Faith or morals.

While the clouds do look like they are darkening, this is a promise we can bank on.

Just wait.

St. Corbinian's Bear said...

Having read the whole article, albeit in a computer translation, it seems the gist is that ceremonial sodomy pacts in France are cause for sadness. He specifically says he is not speaking for the Pope. In a press conference, an off-the-cuff answer may not mean much. It is not enough to assume a trial balloon in my opinion.

As with everything, I'll wait and see what the Pope actually does before getting excited. An old bear does not chase every horse that trots by.

JamesTheCatholic said...

"It not being My will that they should be in this state, you should pray for them, and not judge them, leaving their judgment to Me. And I, moved by your prayers, will do them mercy if they will only receive it, but if they do not correct their life, their dignity will be the cause of their ruin. For if they do not accept the breadth of My mercy, I, the Supreme Judge, shall terribly condemn them at their last extremity, and they will be sent to the eternal fire."

-Our Blessed Lord to St. Catherine of Sienna concerning His priests.

douglassbartley said...

Holy Mother Church, the last outpost of Civilization, the pillar of righteousness, is being repopulated with those who wish to transform it into a pillar of salt.

Liam Ronan said...

I don't want to get all Biblical on everyone but I suspect most of us intuit what's coming in the short-term notwithstanding the victory belongs to Almighty God in the end.
But for now I am reminded of Revelation 13:7:
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation."
Bad as things are and bad as they may yet be always remember that out of all eternity God has chosen us, each and everyone, to stand by Him at this critical moment in salvation history...and taht is pretty humbling.

Liam Ronan said...

I live in Ireland in the County Cork. We've had a poet once here in Eire, W. B. Yeats, who died in 1939. Perhaps you've read his work 'The Second Coming'. I trust I wont weary you if I cite it here in full (apologies to 'Long-Skirts):
"The Second Coming
THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Common Sense said...

The creeps are laing a siege around H.H. Soon he'll have only two options left. In near future we'll all see, who this pope is. I can't stomach this Jesuit Lombardi dude.Isn't that irony that so many catholic 'priests' are grave obstacle to salvation and should be oppose by all might? And that the VII 'Springtime' brought such a misfortune on mankind on global scale? And those cohorts want even more torment for others.

Barbara said...

Thank you Liam R. I had read that Akita prophecy some years ago. I would dare to say now that it would appear we are well and truly in these times. Or no?

Since I have been involved with the Traditonal Mass and all that goes along with it (5years now) this is what I have seen increasing(probably because bit by bit the scales have fallen from my eyes) - oppostion and chaos among the church leaders and the laity.

I know more than ever that I MUST stand firm with Tradition and what the Catholic Church has always taught. What these leaders are doing is simply not Catholic. A priest recently said to me that they would have been excumenicated by pre-conciliar Popes. They are leading souls to perish.

By the way I really like Yeats - all true poets are kind of prophets ( as is dear Long-skirts too!) - no less he. These lines got my attention:


"The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;"

Great poem. Thanks.



Tom said...

I am skeptical of the report. I did an Internet search for the text of Fr. Lomabrdi’s interview with the Foreign Press Association. All citations of the above remark lead back to the Rossa Porpora website (to which Rorate Caeli refers) as the only source. Fr. Lombardi did give such an interview on April 24th, but the various press reports on the 25th and the 26th mention only the later details of the Rossa Porpora report. One would think that such a first-mentioned item in the interview with reporters from around the world would receive immediate international attention (especially in view of recent statements by other Church dignitaries on the same subject) and not be reported until five days after the interview from an obscure source such as Rossa Porpora.

Martin Čejka said...

No, Tom, You did a poor investigation.

http://www.zenit.org/it/articles/padre-lombardi-racconta-papa-francesco

Long-Skirts said...

Barbara said:

"By the way I really like Yeats - all true poets are kind of prophets ( as is dear Long-skirts too!) - no less he. These lines got my attention:
"The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;""

Thank you Barbara & Liam but Yeats was a genius!! I'm a simple woman just expressing herself in the only way she knows how with simple ditties who is willing to fight and die for Holy Mother Church.

Dan Hunter said...

"Whoever condones recognition of homosexual activity under the guise of civil union, whether he be laity or pope, is he not guilty of material heresy?"

Hayfarmer,

Yes, that is what the Church Magisterially teaches, that is why I am skeptical of the veracity of this report.
The Holy Father is not a heretic.

Martin R. Čejka said...

Sorry, Tom, I are right, I was wrong. (I will buy You a beer, when you will come to Czech republic. As my apology.)

I thought, that ZENIT has its own source, but his raport is from Rossa Porpora as well.

Do You know something about Rossa Porpora? Is it trustworthy?

A Canberra Observer said...

I am sure we will remember him as Lombardi the Loser.
He certainly deserves it.

New Catholic said...

Catholic in Brooklyn,

Are you REALLY using Google Translate to make your point??? No, our translation is just fine: "Ciò non toglie che si possano riconoscere in qualche modo altre forme di unione tra due persone."

"Ciò": this, what has just been said (that is, the concept of marriage)

"non toglie": does not prevent, is not an impediment

"che si possano riconoscere": that [one] may recognize, the recognition

"in qualche modo": in some way

"altre forme di unione": some other kinds of union[s]

"tra due persone": between two persons


I just CANNOT believe ignoramuses still think using Google Translate is legitimate as an ARGUMENT... Goodness...

I BEG ALL OUR READERS to please NEVER use again Google Translate as an argument in our blog. It is utterly ridiculous. All who do will be immediately banned: we know what we are doing.

NC

P.S. As for those angry at the source, the reverend spokesman can very easily dispel this by just denying its content.

Nancy Danielson said...

I fear for our Holy Father Benedict and hope that someone from outside The Vatican will check in on him.

Tom S. said...

If I had any confidence in Msgr Lombardi's ability to speak, I'd be disturbed by this to say the least.

However, considering how many flub-ups he and his icicle have perpetrated the last few years, the fact is what was said was probably not what it appears to have been. As leader of what can at best be described as "the gang that couldn't shoot straight" he no doubt meant something entirely different than both what he said and what he meant.

Malta said...

No, Tom S., he meant what he said. That wasn't a Freudian slip...

Adfero said...

Malta, if you have evidence of what you tried to post, please send it to me.