Rorate Caeli

The Latin Mass: debate still rages


(Source: That the bones you have crushed may thrill)

13 comments:

Sancte Alphonsus said...

"Do you like the latin Mass?"

I take issue when I hear this question. I don't really care what I like in this regard - What does God like?

saintlysages said...

St Thomas Aquinas teaches that religion is the virtue whereby one renders to God what is due to Him. The Mass, which is a visible manifestation of religion, should therefore not be celebrated for personal entertainment.

GMMF said...

I think you make a good point saintlysages, but what would you say about the Mass being celebrated for the instruction in the faith of those present?

I think this also goes against the principle you bring up concerning the purpose of the Mass as a whole (of course certain parts are traditionally didactic--the readings, homily/sermon, and Creed), but the problem of treating the whole Mass as a didactic exercise predates the reforms of the 60s and 70s by a great deal. Mass being treated as "entertainment" came from this, as the teacher must keep the taught engaged and interested.

Of course, ironically, the didactic effects have been less the more didactic means have been sought after.

Traditio7 said...

It's not a matter of like. It's a matter of being closer to God, truth, the worship of the Saints of the Church and being closely connected to my ancestors before me. The true Mass gives me identity as a Catholic!

saintlysages said...

GMMF, I say the purpose of liturgical didactic elements is not to entertain an audience by means of intellectual or affective stimulation, but rather, to enrich their faith so that they may better render God the service due to Him. Some people enroll in a class for recreation, such as to learn a hobby; others enroll in a class to learn a profession.

As for the didactic method, it should be suitable for the time and place. For me, the Mass calls for a certain level of piety, given the awesome nature of what transpires there. But it should also draw us to Christ, Who is the Head of His Body. The presence of God causes to arise in us two sensations: awe which holds us back, and fascination which draws us to Him. A poorly executed liturgy focuses on one element to the detriment of the other. God bless!

fondo-buzzona said...

I'm not American and I don't understand this. Why is "who is this cowboy?" funny?

Sancte Alphonsus, your name is wrong:
it should have been Sanctus Alphonsus. Sancte is vocative and should be used with the Alphonse in the vocative as well when invoking the saint.

Long-Skirts said...

OMG, that's so funny!

Savonarola said...

Funny how those who like the Latin mass decide for God that that must be what he likes.

Tony fro Oz said...

Good points, GMMF.

Of course, the readings in the Mass are primarily there because they are the divinely inspired Word of God. Any didactic effect is purely secondary; one is fed by the Word as if by a process of osmosis. As you imply, the fetish for didacticism has trended towards making the Mass principally about us. An extended Sunday School event. And that's even before you include the rest of the participative fetishing that has prescinded from this mindset in the Novus Ordo.

Funny post. Gold!

Tony fro Oz


Adfero said...

I just accidentally deleted a comment saying this was "adorable." Sorry, fat fingers!

Angelo said...

Savonarola, If the Mass was in Latin for 1,600 years I think it is safe to assume God likes it. If Vatican ll said, "Latin is and will remain the official language of the Church", I assume God likes it. If Pope Benedict XVl said that the restoration of Latin is God's will, I again assume God likes it. Those who assume otherwise are in error. That I don't assume, that I'm sure of.

JTS said...

Isn't it Latin because if the Roman Empire? The Last Supper would have been Aramaic right? It's my opinion that God would be happy with any language or format TLM or NO as long as people were keeping the Sabbath Day Holy. Vast amounts of Catholics are Catholics in name only. Worrying about declining numbers at church and changing things to try and draw crowds has not worked. We ALL need to pray for lapsed Catholics to return to Mass in either format. Only practicing Catholics can have hope in a better future and the Grace to battle on in a negative world.

Angelo said...

What many fail to grasp is that the Latin Language has long been the tradition of the Church. This tradition was confirmed at Vatican Council ll. It is written in stone in the Council Documents. What part of this throws some Catholics into a black hole of confusion? Why not tell the Orthodox to stop saying the Divine Liturgy in Greek and return to Aramaic? I tell why, because the Orthodox would not take that recommendation lightly and one would receive the harshest of response from them. The Church has reaffirmed at the Council that Latin is and will REMAIN the official language of the Catholic Church. So all arguments against Latin are without basis. Anyone against Latin is simply being anti Vatican ll.