Rorate Caeli

What a shock!
Harsh words by leader of the Established religious sect in England?

Well, we should all be glad that the phony feelgoodism of the usurpers of the abolished see of Canterbury is coming to an end - and that the Established Protestant sect is reverting to mode. Saint Oliver Plunkett would not be surprised!

And one tends to agree with the Protestant leader: the Church in Ireland has lost credibility. But at least it is still a Church! And its bishops are real bishops, not overdressed laymen. And they do not use the holiest days of the year to fire cheap shots at other religious groups amidst a highly secularized environment.

Perhaps this was planned by him all along: his timing and comments are so despicable that he actually make the bishops of Ireland look good!

Regarding the Anglicans who will be forming the new Anglican Catholic ordinariates, the Protestant leader adds, "I can only say fine, God bless them. I don’t at the moment." And we can respond: good for them! A mother's blessing is much more meaningful and powerful than that of a false bishop.


  1. Anonymous10:55 AM

    "his timing and comments are so despicable that he actually make the bishops of Ireland look good!"

    Not in the eyes of general, secular public.

  2. True, only in the eyes of faithful Catholics.

  3. Saint Oliver Plunket would not have agreed to a defection towards an anathematised vernacular liturgy that resembles the Cranmer edition.

  4. There are cases of the same in the Anglican sect also. He is quite a comedian is Rowan-Williams. He presides over a dying sect which is terminally subverted. I doubt if many people in UK pay much attention to him.

  5. It is scandalous that a Roman Pope visits the cave of this incredibly hideous chief-druid of albion.

  6. Anonymous11:46 AM

    We had Archbishop Martin on radio here this morning using this as more evidence for his push for 'change' in the "Irish Church". The curse of aggiornamento lives on.

  7. When we least expected, here comes the Anglican Inquisition: Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as silliness, surprise.... I'll come in again.

  8. fulgentius12:13 PM

    Bear in mind that the same vile media who are sliming the Pope and misrepresenting the Church are reporting Williams' remarks. Having listened to the audio of his comments on the BBC website (doubtless posted after protests from Lambeth Palace about the spin being given them), I find it hard to get too agitated about what he said. He did, after all, describe the loss of credibility as "not just a problem for the Church, but a problem for everyone in Ireland".

    Williams may be theologically confused, but he's not an anti-Catholic bigot.

  9. fulgentius12:26 PM

    I would add that I think the comments about blessing have also been misrepresented by the media. Williams said:

    "I think there'll be a few people who will take advantage of it — and they'll take advantage of it because they believe they ought to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome. And I can only say fine, God bless them. I don't."

    The final "I don't" seems addressed to belief that Anglicans ought to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome - not to denying anyone his blessing. That The Times' Ruth Gledhill - a woman who who seems incapable of accurate reporting of religious affairs - has failed to understand his words is hardly surprising.

  10. The Church of England has lost all shred of credibility because of Rowan Williams.

    Now please ask our Anglican brethren. Waffling over gay marriage, female priests and bishops, Sharia law.... and sex scandals (the CoE is not immune to that).

    The Pope's ordinariate offer is the best proof that the Church of England has lost its credibility.

  11. And the C of E has bags of credibility? Nevertheless, after a week in which Catholic bishops have had their words mangled in the media, I would want to be more certain of what he actually said.

  12. Anonymous12:57 PM

    Statement by Archbishop of Dublin:

    "The unequivocal and unqualified comment in a radio interview of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, that the Catholic Church in Ireland has “lost all credibility” has stunned me. (...)"

  13. And of course, as the Most Reverend and Right Honorable Archdruid of Canterbury knows well, sex abuse (and its coverup) is something completely, utterly alien to the Anglican Church. When you ordain married men and women, these problems go right away!

    Admittedly, however, while it is easy and tempting to take shots at the dying (or dead) institutions of the Anglican Communion, the self inflicted wounds of the Church, be it "novus ordo" or not, are indeed mostly self-inflicted. Most of these problems could have been averted had good, holy vocations not been discouraged in such large numbers (and replaced with too many men who ought not have been ordained, let alone consecrated), had dubious theologies not been embraced; but even strong orthodoxy is no guarantee against such abominations and their coverup.

    The sooner the problems are outed, however, the sooner the cleanup can truly begin. At the end of the day, there is no substitute for holiness and its concomitants, orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Especially among bishops.

  14. The Church of England never had any credibility!

  15. The Church has lost all credibility?

    That's what Her enemies said on the first Holy Saturday as well.

  16. LeonG said:
    "St.Oliver Plunket would not have agreed anathematised vernacular liturgy that resembles the Cranmer edition."


    A girl, a lady,
    Wife a mother,
    From church of England
    She saw the other.

    The other where
    Her church came from
    The other where
    The fruit was plumb

    The other where
    Her church beat down
    And looted jewels
    For earthly crown

    And watching she
    Was irritated
    And slowly grew

    Sitting silent
    In her shell
    Her home a place
    Where Priests could dwell

    Confect the Mass
    Many saved
    For this their limbs
    And lives were braved

    Because a woman
    Kept her shell
    A jealous fortress
    Barring hell

    And then the weak
    Pried open wide
    Exposing truth
    The shell's inside

    Where mother, wife,
    Lady, girl,
    Had turned into
    York's royalist pearl!!

    St. Margaret Clitherow pray for us and especially for our Pope and the world-wide Rosary Crusade to help him.

  17. Anonymous1:59 PM


    I think your scorn is unbecoming on this Holy Day. Williams was not scornful - he was giving is opinion when asked a question in an interview.

    He seems generally more positively nuanced towards Rome than most Anglicans, and I believe his words have been taken out of context on this occasion.


  18. His comments are unbecoming during Holy Week.

  19. New Catholic

    You have not reported the Archbishop of Canterbury correctly. He spoke of the Catholic Church in Ireland:
    "losing ALL credibility".

    Canterbury's use of the word ALL is what caused Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin to be both stunned and discouraged.

  20. Archbishop Williams’ comments have been criticized by Anglicans in Ireland

    The Church of Ireland’s bishop responsible for furthering Christian Unity has called on Dr Williams to reflect on his comments which he described as ‘careless and reckless’ and ‘extremely unfortunate’.

    Bishop Richard Clarke said he deeply regretted the comment that the Catholic Church was ‘losing all credibility’ because of the clerical child abuse scandals, adding that it was hurtful to all Christians here.

    He said it was ‘thoughtless’ and that the Archbishop of Canterbury had neither experience of Irish life nor any direct ecclesiastical authority in this country.

    Bishop Clarke said that the language used by Archbishop was ‘extremely unfortunate’ even allowing for the fact that the Catholic Church here is facing deep and serious challenges to its authority as a consequence of the scandals.

    Dr Clarke said everybody living here knew very well that most bishops, priests and religious of the Roman Catholic tradition minister faithfully and selflessly under very difficult conditions with the love and support of their people.


    The Church of Ireland’s Archbishop of Dublin says he regrets the comments made by the Archbishop of Canterbury about the clerical sex abuse scandal in Ireland.

    Dr Rowan Williams has said that officials in Ireland have lost all credibility because of the child abuse scandal and described it as a “colossal trauma”.

    Church of Ireland’s Archbishop Dr John Neill has extended his support to his Catholic counterpart Archbishop Diarmuid Martin who says he is stunned by the comments.

    Archbishop Neill said he listened to the remarks of Archbishop Williams with “deep regret”.

    “As one who with so many of my colleagues in ministry shares with that Church in a joint proclamation of the Gospel, and who acknowledges the pain and deep suffering of the victims of abuse, I also feel for the countless priests and bishops who daily live out their Christian vocation,” he said.

    He said he supported his Catholic counterpart in Dublin, Archbishop Martin, “as he works for the proclamation of the Gospel and the healing of hurt, including that of the faithful and their clergy whose ministry has been undermined by those guilty of the abuse of children”.

  21. UPDATE:

    Archbishop Williams has expressed ‘deep sorrow and regret’ for his comments

    The Dublin Archdiocese said:

    "The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, this afternoon (Saturday) telephoned Archbishop Diarmuid Martin to express his deep sorrow and regret for difficulties which may have been created by remarks in a BBC interview concerning the credibility of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Archbishop Williams affirmed that nothing could have been farther from his intention than to offend or criticize the Irish Church."

  22. I believe the Chinese have a proverb that conveys the sentiments that the forked tongue may sometimes speak the truth

  23. Anonymous7:00 PM

    Payback from a wolf in sheep's clothing for Benedict's daring to regain so many lost souls of the Anglican church to the true Church.

    I note how uncharitable so many inside and outside the Church have been this Holy Week towards the Supreme Pontiff.

    Dare I say these alleged Catholics, who chose this week of all weeks to gang up on His Holiness, are un-Christian?

    Must I remove a beam from mine own eye before saying this about the splinter in their eyes?

    To all, a most Happy and Joyful Easter.


  24. The ABC's comments are indeed unfortunate. They would have been inappropriate at any time of the year, but on this weekend they are being seen, with some justification, as offensive. The fact that his comments are largely accurate is neither here nor there. He is not a Catholic and he does not live in Ireland. It is none of his business. Rowan Williams has some fairly serious problems to deal with that fall under his bailiwick. He should stop worrying about other ecclesial communities and tend to the mess in his own house.

    That said, as has been noted, he has apologized for his remarks. I believe that an apology having been offered, Christians are generally obligated to accept it and move on.

    In ICXC


    Fr. Finnigan is of the opinion that Rowan-Williams was misinterpreted, that he didn't refuse to bless but didn't believe he had to return to Rome. I hope Father is right.

  26. Why does the "Anglican 'bishops' may have Old Catholic episcopal lineages" comment always appear in comments to these posts? Even after Apostolicae Curae, we have to guess which Anglican 'priests' are real priests, and which 'bishops' are real bishops, based on what were the words used in the 'consecration' and who was present therein?

    Give me a break! And this heretic scholar can keep his phony blessing to himself and his fake 'priests'. The Ordinariates will fare better without it (whatever he may have meant by his words).


  27. NC,
    No need to guess anything. They are heretics. Heretics can not gain "valid" sacraments from heretics. There are no Mysteries outside the Church. Their "sacraments" are empty ceremonial and without grace.

    A blessed Pascha to you and yours...

    Christ is risen!

  28. Anonymous9:31 AM

    Having just listened to the broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in which Dr Williams says these words, the context is far more nuanced than the press reports suggest and, in consequence, less offensive. They were based on a letter sent by an Anglican clerical friend who made the point that in Ireland clerics, Catholic and Protestant, do not any longer feel safe on the streets wearing clerical dress. This has been a problem for many years in Ireland, ever since the abuse crisis started, and the result is that the Church has become invisible. Many nuns have also abandoned wearing habits in consequence.

    The problem for the Catholic Church at the moment is that, because of this crisis, it can no longer for the time being be taken seriously as the seat of moral authority. That, I think, is at the heart of the crisis, especially in Ireland where the Church's moral precepts were applied in an absolute form. In that sense it has indeed lost credibility and it will take a very long time before it is restored, if ever.

    The nature and extent of these crimes against innocent children and the consequent ruined lives will not easily or quickly be forgotten. And in the case of Fr Murphy of Milwaukee, the fact that he used the confessional as an opportunity to molest boys crippled by deafness is one of the most serious cases by a priest ever to have come to light. Then their is Cardinal Gruer and his 2,000 victims in Austria, and Marciel Maciel and his six illegitimate children, some of whom he also abused from an early age in addition to the Legionaries he abused as boys. In one of the most eroticized periods in world history, it will be impossible to forget these crimes.

  29. 'Then their is Cardinal Gruer and his 2,000 victims in Austria, and Marciel Maciel and his six illegitimate children, some of whom he also abused from an early age in addition to the Legionaries he abused as boys. In one of the most eroticized periods in world history, it will be impossible to forget these crimes.'

    Indeed, Anon. But could you elaborate a bit more on the 2000 victims, i.e. has this been proven in a court of law and similarly with what you say about Maciel's children. I'd be most grateful for any links that do not rely on hearsay but present accurate, verifiable findings. I'm not clear about your final sentence on eroticism and history. Do you mean this only in the context of the present scandals or more generally to a world that has reduced human sexuality to hedonism and pleasure?

    God bless you and yours.



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