Rorate Caeli

After months of hesitation...

...even John Allen confirms the inevitable release of the motu proprio on the liberalization of the Traditional Roman Mass.

Yes, this is the same John Allen who said that there was no "consensus" among "Vatican officials" on any such document -- as if the Pope would ever draft such a document based on a consensus which would never take place. Let us remember what we wrote exactly one year ago:

His many meetings regarding the same issues are not to find consensus, which he does not need to enact any measure, but to guide the Vatican machinery to whatever he has planned to do, particularly in the cases where there is no consensus at all: the need for meetings is greatly reduced when the issue involved is the object of majoritarian consensus among the members of an organization, and that is true in any organization of any size.

...

So much for a "blogosphere" fever... It is obvious that, whatever he wishes to do, Pope Benedict wishes to do so in a smooth way. But one cannot simply say he wants "consensus", and dismiss all that is related to the issue because a "Vatican Official" said "there is no consensus". The Pope already got his consensus: an almost unanimous consensus from representatives of all bishops of the world meeting in the Synod of Bishops that "the Traditionalist question" was irrelevant to them; and they were clearly AGAINST any concession. This "consensus" did not prevent the developments of the subsequent months.

And we presented our own view of Mr Allen:

Allen is a fine fellow, but he is more a newsmaker than a news gatherer, in the best "tradition" of contemporary American Church reporters, such as Robert Blair Kaiser. He and his sources wish to influence events or to alter the way future decisions are perceived and interpreted, and that is how his words should be read.
We should add now: they wish "to influence events or to alter the way future decisions are perceived and interpreted" in a dishonest way. And Allen does that even today, as he "reports", while having to admit the inevitable release of the motu proprio, that "most bishops, pastors and liturgical experts whom I've polled believe that with or without the motu proprio, the normal liturgical experience for the overwhelming majority of Catholics will continue to be the post-Vatican II Mass in the vernacular language."

Were these the same "officials" whom he interviewed last year? The ones who said a consensus was in any way necessary for the Pope to act?... The motu proprio will be a huge deal and it will have a major impact -- particularly, in a first moment, in France and, possibly even more, in the United States, with its large mass of "disenfranchised" orthodox and liturgically-minded Catholics. Naturally, "progressive" bishops will try to ditch it, and "progressive" spin doctors will try to undermine its enormous significance, as they are already trying to do.

One last point: John Allen's piece gives us a glimpse into the double-pronged strategy that the enemies of the Mass will probably employ to undermine the motu proprio: (a) downplay the importance and reach of the document; (b) try to link the Mass with anti-Semitism.

34 comments:

Jordan Potter said...

Let's read Cardinal Kasper's words one more time:

"While I do not know what the pope intends to state in his final text, it is clear that the decision that has been made cannot now be changed."

Sounds good, doesn't it?

I agree with your appraisal of John Allen. Likening him to Robert Blair Kaiser is very apt.

As for the anti-Semitism issue, the pre-Vatican II liturgy can and should be interpreted and prayed in a manner that makes clear anti-Semitism is not being countenanced or promoted. But I have to say that the Good Friday Prayers of the Faithful in the 1962 Missal are stratospherically far and away superior to the ones we have now, which beat around the bush. There's a refreshingly charitable directness about the pre-Vatican II Prayers of the Faithful.

Sub Umbra Mortis said...

I must agree with this assessment of Mr. Allen.
What a pity . . .but alas this is nothing new in the media, even from the spin-doctors in the committees of the USCCB.

What is more, I am tired of apologizing for being Catholic. Any faith that does not seek to convert others, via the truth spoken in charity, is destined to end up on the ash-heap of history.

PC "liberalism is a mental disorder" to quote M Savage. We are mandated by Christ to call others to conversion. While this my sound "harsh" and even anti-Semitic to the liberal elite, it is nonetheless a requirement and mandate of Christ. We are all called to live in the truth of Christ and His Gospel. Have a little conviction and get over it.

The Church must rise over indifferentism and syncretism else we too betray Christ. The west must develop once again the stomach to survive quickly and stand up for Christ and the Church or else we will all end up reading the Koran facing Mecca.

And Mr. Potter, right on. I have done both liturgies, and the prayers of Good Friday in the 62 are far superior in every respect. Imagine, wanting people to enjoy what we have, salvation in Christ, how insensitive . . .

Anonymous said...

There are NO prayers demeaning to Jews in the 1962 Missal, as anyone who has read said Missal can easily verify.

Maybe Mr. Allen and his allies' Latin is so poor that they think "Judica me" means "make me a Jew"?

Casting off our liberals to the Jews would be demeaning to the Jews.

Tom McKenna said...

And the bogus charge of "Marcionism" could only come from someone either ignorant or malicious. A short perusal of the old texts shows extensive use of Old Testament texts, esp. the psalms and the Holy Week liturgies. And the old Mass does not shy away from politically incorrect NT passages on women like the NOM does.

That said, sadly it is true that the motu proprio, may it come soon, will likely have little effect on the average Catholic.

The New Mass must be substantially reformed.

Gillibrand said...

At the rate the Church in Europe is declining, there won't be anyone around to say the new Mass in twenty to thirty years and even if there was they would have no congregation. After the recent performance of some of the German bishops in Israel, the allegations of anti-semitism are rather hollow.

Anonymous said...

While it is very clear that many will downplay and demean the TLM Im not sure what this possible bogus charge of anti-Semitism will come from.

Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley said...

"One last point. John Allen's piece gives us a glimpse into the two pronged strategy that the enemies of the Mass will probably employ to undermine the motu proprio:(a) downplay the importance and reach of the document; (b) try to link the Mass with anti-semitism."

On point b. would you care to elaborate. I know you are vert busy, but I do like it when you write. Seriously, with a mind as open as I can muster, why do you think so?

This had never occurred to me.

Anonymous said...

I heard about the anti-Semitism for the first time about two weeks ago, with regard to the Good Friday prayers for the conversion of the Jews (perfidious was already taken out by John XXIII). The easy way to refute it is to point to the generations of saints (St. John Vianney, St. Padre Pio, St. Francis de Sales, to name a few) who prayed those orations on Good Friday.

As a secondary note, why wouldn't we pray for conversion of our Jewish brothers and sisters? Why wouldn't we want them to enjoy the fullness of truth, the joy of receiving the Eucharist, the consolation of the Sacrament of Penance, the gift of solidity given to us through the Papacy? In the end, who is truly making a sincere act of love towards the Jewish people -- ecumenists who accomplish nothing but the effective watering down of their own faith, or those who pray in union with all the saints and popes for the children of Abraham, as did Our Lord?

Al Trovato said...

Simon-Peter,

I do not mean to speak for NC, but let me try to answer.

Of course there is no actual connection between the Mass and anti-semitism.

That said, it is obvious that Allen tries to make that connection: over a third of his piece talks about the supposed problems the Mass would cause vis-a-vis Jewish/Catholic dialogue:

"Among the debates certain to swirl is a set of concerns regarding Jewish-Christian relations. The exchange between Kasper and the International Council of Christians and Jews, based in Germany, illustrates what's at stake."

I do not wish to give more ammunition to the enemies, but the French media operates under the following assumption: Tradionalists = "intégristes" = anti-semites.

David said...

Well, my family is part-Jewish but I certainly don't see any incongruence with my attachment to the traditional rite. Although I am aware that some elements in the SSPX in the UK are anti-Semitic.

If we truly believe in Christ then how can we not pray that everyone should come to the fullness of His truth?

New Catholic said...

Simon, thank you for the kind words.

I believe Al has explained the spurious "progressive" strategy of trying to tie the Traditional Mass to anti-Semitic sentiments and to contemporary political currents.

poeta said...

I guess the Kaspers of the world fear the old Mass because they fear the truth. It would expose their pseudo-ecumenism as a fraud and reveal (even to themselves) that their life's work, though done with the best of subjective good intentions, has been the work of the Evil One. They have been scattering instead of gathering.

New Catholic said...

Yes, you are correct, The Publican, the "limbo debate" will not be allowed on this thread of comments.

New Catholic said...

Ad Orientem: No, it is not. But there are more appropriate times for such discussions.

Anonymous said...

When liberals are faced with despair, what does one do? Pull out the Race, anti semite, anti-female, etc etc card

So shameful that the church is no longer in the business of conversion, and ecumenism is heresy and for the Popes of today, including JPII who was quoted as saying he based his papacy on such, history will be his greatest judge not to mention our Lord who made it clear to the Apostles what their mission was on earth and what to do when those refuse to heed their words. Sad that the Popes seem to have lost that message

humboldt said...

What is this that one U.S. bishops says that they have sweated out a new translation from the Latin to English.

Is this guy crazy or what? What could be difficult about translating from Latin to English?

This kind of people make me sick. Just insignificant people wanting to give themselves more importance than they have.

John L said...

I wonder if the line being taken by opponents of the motu proprio is not liable to be self-defeating on the grounds of its admitting too much truth about the current state of the church. The idea that the old liturgy is theologically incompatible with the 'reforms' instituted after the Council is a pretty clear admission that these 'reforms' are incompatible with Caholic tradition, and that they were intended to subvert the faith. Or are people just willing to swallow the idea that the liturgy of the Church for 1500 years could insanely have been non-Catholic and non-Christian? Perhaps it is that people of the Vatican II generation are willing to swallow this idea without any fuss, and are not capable of seeing its obvious impossibility.

j hughes dunphy said...

Pope Benedict XVI shall truly be the exemplar of an authentic orthodox Roman Catholic pope and Vicar of Christ for some time. Why? He will be certainly the most Roman by returning the Church to its truly Latin heritage with the Latin Mass; truly he shall be the most orthodox with the most authentic form of worship that stretches back to the Upper Room for its credibility and correctness of teaching the faith through the most perfect of prayers, the Tridentine Latin Mass, as codified by the Council of Trent; and truly the most Catholic insofar as he will return the Church to its most traditional form of worship that has always been relevant to all races, nations, and peoples especially because of its Latin
roots.
j hughes dunphy
http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com

Gillibrand said...

Only speculation on my part, but I think the initiative for this came from the Cardinal.

Moretben said...

One of the soundest reasons for maintaining the gravest reservations about the whole Novus Ordo project, is supplied precisely by those worse-than-vacuous "Great Intercessions", enshrined at its very heart, at the most solemn point of the liturgical year. Even Our Lord gives His consummatum est His Church appears to insinuate the Dispensationalist heresy in the "Prayer for the Jewish People"; the subsequent prayers are characterised almost exclusively, in tone and content, by a kind of sub-Marxist, 1960's pluralist rhetoric. Every year this hits me more forcefully; this year I have resolved never again to attend a Novus Ordo Good Friday liturgy precisely on account of these scandalous distortions. It's not merely that their simpering banality makes one blush to the roots: they are ideological misrepresentations of the meaning of the Cross and the Faith of the Church.

michigancatholic said...

This is just one more underhanded attempt of the dissident community to undermine the MP. They don't know any more about this than we do. I think that probably includes Kasper, as well.

They just figured at the Nth hour to throw out some ecumenical whine to roil the waters and bit, hoping to sway the Pope or manipulate public opinion.

Take it for what it's worth. Nothing.

michigancatholic said...

John Allen may be well-informed at times but he can't be trusted. Some of what he writes is indeed spin and this is a perfect example. The left is getting desperate.

New Catholic said...

Oh, brother!... I do not even think it is worthwhile to write a post on the study by the International Theological Commission, which: (1) did not (and could not...) "abolish" limbo; (2) is not a Papal document neither a Magisterial document of any kind; (3) is not binding for anyone, but purely a theological exercise.

Please, folks, well-informed Catholics cannot fall in the traps set by ill-informed or malicious secular journalists. This is what is truly ridiculous.

Any other reference to this "limbo study" will be deleted.

Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley said...

Moretben:

this was the first year I assisted throughout a Novus Ordo Trid.

If you have to go, just do what I did, interpolate, or deny the prayers the priest offers. I couldn't give my consent to a lot of them, not becuase I am some superior being, but because I hadn't the foggiest what was being petitioned for.

A couple of times I was reduced to "nope, there is no way I am asking for THAT!" and "Okay, but that can't be number one in the order of things can it?"

I wish I could recall where I saw something by Bugnini where he said that the (his) purpose was to strip Catholic prayers and devotions of their Catholicity, e.g. the NO Divine Office.

This bit of Jew-baiting nonsense is really bothering me: a. the timing re Yad Vishem & Pius XII, b. is there any record, of the Jews ever consulting with the Samaritans or worshippers of Astarte etc. on the how and what of the Temple Rites?

Those who for any reason or no reason at all seem to be out of sympathy with the purported MP, have done the Church equivalent of playing the race card (viz. secular US Politics). It is a desperate act,and an attempt to cut off (any) legitimate debate; it has the added advantage (as some see it) of fixing a perception, an assocation, in the minds of many in and outside the Church in case the MP is forthcoming. They've just thrown a rotten egg into the room.

If I rememember right, charges (I think reported here) against certain unspecified SSPX assisting laity and against the Archbishop have been raised from time to time as well.

Perhaps recognizing the decoupling of the SSPX / Latin Mass etc. issues they felt it time to broaden their imputations?

Limbo: well, last month I had cause to comment on the work of an Irish Journalist who, amongst her other plain errors of fact, e.g. Father Sobrino had been censured, also revealed to her salivating anti-catholic chattering class readership that limbo has been abolished...! I must have missed that.

This is getting long but...there is a bookstore here in Raleigh, goes by the name "Stevens Bookstore." He has millions (I kid ye not) of books, most used. I get in there at least once a month and trawl the Catholic section, picking up some amazing bargains on the way. Two weeks ago would have been the first time I stopped by since Sobrinos gentle chastisement. It was the first time I have ever seen any of Sobrino's books in the Catholic section, there were about 8 of them...someone got rid.

Good...but then someone else will pick them up.

Jordan Potter said...

"Good...but then someone else will pick them up."

It would probably be an act of charity if you bought them and destroy them yourself.

Jordan Potter said...

"That's an ironic thing to say, since the very formulation of the concept of Limbo was 'not binding for anyone, but [was] purely a theological exercise.'"

You are gravely misinformed. New Catholic will be deleting your comment, and perhaps this one too, but I only wish to urge you to read Fr. Harrison's article. You may find it very enlightening.

michigancatholic said...

Oh stop! Be calm. All this is just dissidents trying to bait us. It's their last hope. Pity them; pray for them; but carry on with your faith.

The MP will come soon enough -- the restoration has begun.

Censor said...

Unexpected success for the Compendium of practical liturgy


His Imminence (the Motu propirio) is in its last stages before publishing, but many signs of growing ferment within the catholic community could be observed from months before. In Italy, for example, it is coming in the bookshops from the Marietti publishing house, the Compendio di liturgia pratica (Compendium of practical liturgy) of Fr. Trimeloni, in a new edition with the preface of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos.
The Compendium was publicised only on one webpage (www.ecclesiacatholica.com/trimeloni), but the news had spread like wildfire, from mouth to mouth leading many seminarists and priests to block the telephone lines of the Marietti publishing house. Even a lot of booksellers – especially those of Via della Conciliazione in Rome – have already started to take the numerous requests of their clients.
The bookings come from all parts of Italy; from north to south, even from the islands; and there are also cases of priests who serve abroad asking how to order the book. Even the age of those interested is significative; from young seminarists to old parish priests, debunking the myth that the old rite is a nostalgia of the older generation of priests.
Some catholic websites which focus on tridentine liturgy have cooperated with each other to spread the news of the publication of the Compendium, and frome these there was a distinct association Una Vox, whose website is quite popular. The Italian branch of another association, declining the ablative, has distinguished itself with its unexplainable silence on an event which is worth an article at a national level. At the repeated pressure, the webmaster has reserved the right to review the work of Fr. Trimeloni after its publication, and after recieveing a complimentary copy. No less preplexity was caused by the fact that another new book from the sedevacantist Institute Mater Boni Consilii (a quite modest faithful Missal) had to be signalled.

Censor said...

Unexpected success for the Compendium of practical liturgy


His Imminence (the Motu propirio) is in its last stages before publishing, but many signs of growing ferment within the catholic community could be observed from months before. In Italy, for example, it is coming in the bookshops from the Marietti publishing house, the Compendio di liturgia pratica (Compendium of practical liturgy) of Fr. Trimeloni, in a new edition with the preface of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos.
The Compendium was publicised only on one webpage (www.ecclesiacatholica.com/trimeloni), but the news had spread like wildfire, from mouth to mouth leading many seminarists and priests to block the telephone lines of the Marietti publishing house. Even a lot of booksellers – especially those of Via della Conciliazione in Rome – have already started to take the numerous requests of their clients.
The bookings come from all parts of Italy; from north to south, even from the islands; and there are also cases of priests who serve abroad asking how to order the book. Even the age of those interested is significative; from young seminarists to old parish priests, debunking the myth that the old rite is a nostalgia of the older generation of priests.
Some catholic websites which focus on tridentine liturgy have cooperated with each other to spread the news of the publication of the Compendium, and frome these there was a distinct association Una Vox, whose website is quite popular. The Italian branch of another association, declining the ablative, has distinguished itself with its unexplainable silence on an event which is worth an article at a national level. At the repeated pressure, the webmaster has reserved the right to review the work of Fr. Trimeloni after its publication, and after recieveing a complimentary copy. No less preplexity was caused by the fact that another new book from the sedevacantist Institute Mater Boni Consilii (a quite modest faithful Missal) had to be signalled.

Justin said...

Once again, I throw my support behind the excellent words of J. Hughes Dunphey - your eloquence and sentiments find great appreciation in my mind! The possibility that some will argue anti-Semitism in the Mass is amusing, but obviously incorrect. I will not bother adding anything to the arguments that have already been made (which are excellent). Suffice it to say, what organization that goes against the mainstream is not eventually branded anti-Semitic these days?

poeta said...

The latest issue of Inside the Vatican transcribes parts of the Pope's homily from Holy Thursday. In it he mentions that an apparent contradiction between St. John and the synoptic Gospels can be resolved by the theory that our Lord was using the Qumran (Essene?) liturgical calendar, which explains why He had already celebrated the Passover meal before the sacrifice of the lambs in the Temple was done.

Could this suggest that the two coexisting versions of the Roman liturgical calendar have been on his mind lately? It's interesting, in that light, that our Lord would have been numbered among the "fringe" group who were not using the same calendar as the "in crowd" at the Temple. But although the Apostles didn't have a lamb for the supper, He gave them something infinitely better.

Father Martin Fox said...

The original post referred to: "...the United States, with its large mass of 'disenfranchised' orthodox and liturgically-minded Catholics."

As I take steps to improve reverence in parish liturgies, observe the rubrics, and celebrate the current Mass as (it seems clear to me) it is to be celebrated, where is this "large mass"?

I haven't done anything radical or dramatic, but the steps I've taken are clear enough to anyone attentive to such matters...

So where are these hordes of folks?

Make no mistake, I'm still going to be faithful, but I have heard the claim about this "large mass" of people for years, and they certainly show up online; but they don't seem to show up for Mass.

If they did, things could progress (true progress) better hereabouts, such as a Gregorian schola, which my music director is eager to start...

PubliusIIII said...

Fr. Fox:
You area right. At the Jersey City indult with a great time, great music, great edifice, ten million people within ten miles, only 75 show up. The faithful have no sense of the liturgy, and we who have a sense of the liturgy are often without a sense of the Gospel. This will take generations to bridge this gap. Glad, Father, to see you are leading the charge.

Yours,

PubliusIII

New Catholic said...

There are other Traditional Masses celebrated in your area, Publius; remember that there is great unease in many circles regarding the fear that any episcopal whim may end an "Indult" Mass or transfer it to another church. There is also great discouragement among the faithful because, with very rare exceptions, these "Indult" Masses are isolated, i.e. they are not part of a true "Parish community", which is necessary especially for those families with great numbers of children who desire a certain "parochial stability".

Yes, generations of stable Traditional Parish communities will pass before some normalcy is attained.