Rorate Caeli

Vatican directive on Summorum Pontificum

Echoing the information reported by Isabelle de Gaulmyn in La Croix on Tuesday, Andrea Tornielli reports today in Il Giornale:

The Pope himself would have been very displeased due to some "resistance" displayed even in Italian dioceses, and it is probable that interpretative norms for the correct application of the document [the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum] in the sense willed by Benedict XVI may be issued soon.

33 comments:

Spirit of Vatican II said...

What a waste of time and energy! B16 battling the resistance of Italian bishops to his ill-advised motu proprio is as futile an exercise of papal power as the absurd two years of discussion on the theological status of limbo.

benedict ambrose said...

In re "spirit of vatican ii":

Wow, what a strop to throw! Well, there speaks the voice of "liberal" frustration and fear if ever I heard it...

In re the putative directive:
This is some of the best news I've heard since the MP itself was confirmed.

Laus Deo.

Papabile said...

Please! A waste of time and energy?

Our Holy Father has actually engaged the fight after 40 years of little to nothing, and yet people are still criticizing him for not changing everything overnight.

Now we have had a revolt of the Bishops and he wants to come back at them with interpretive norms, and this is dismissed?

Would it be better for him to do nothing and just offer Mass in the old rite?

That would be the recipe for chaos, as Bishops suspended priests, and the Holy Father lived in his own diocese of one.

If one suggested he simply just remove Bishops, I would ask how? These men have already thumbed their nose at him, and if he (in a widespread manner) started demanding their resignations, it simply would not happen.

He could go the route of excommunications, but we have seen Bishops who were excommunicated claim they aren't (and I am not speaking about the SSPX here).

Like it or not, this is a generational war that will take time.

Ryan said...

I may be naive, but since when did obedience to the Holy Father on a matter of an option which affects only those who expressly desire that option become such a bad thing? I'm sure there are symbolic realities in play and It must be a shot to the heart of those who embrace the "Spirit" of Vatican II, but honestly, I thought freedom, diversity, liberality, and the desire of "the people" were hallmarks of the "Spirit of Vatican II." This reactionary-ism seems more communist than common sense.

Moretben said...

Fr O'Leary

Thank you sincerely for the link to your blog, to which I'm sure I will return with ever-increasing fascination. I was about to describe the experience as an authentic glimpse of a parallel universe, but that doesn't really hit the mark: it's a kind of pasteboard-parallel-universe, hoisted aloft on myths, rupturist ideology, a relentless double-standard and a sufficient number of felicitously-expressed truths "told with bad intent" to "beat all the lies you can invent".

You're going to be my "way of negation"; whenever I feel intimations of uncertainty, I'll return to your blog for good, strong, corrective innoculations.

Fr. J said...

The directive is absolutely wonderful news, in my neck of the woods it seems that the unspoken "word" on the Bishop's lips is CONTAINMENT, born out of resentment and resistance. I hope that this directive will insure the rights of laity and priests alike. If the Bishop does not like the directives he can of course assign all the priests who know and do the Extraordinary Use to some little parish in a remote area of the diocese, which is just fine by me, at least then we might have some consistency in liturgy and teaching, instead of having to put out fires started by some priests personal "perspectives" that VatII did not go far enough.

Anonymous said...

I recently read a book which described in some detail (from research of his writings before becoming Pope, and some of his thoughts after) what kind of Pope John Paul I might have been.
One bishop who knew him said that when he heard the name of the Cardinal elected the new Pope, he cringed, because He knew that Albino Luciani was not a liberal. This bishop used the words "strident", in expressing Luciani's views on such issues as married priests, women priests, ecumenism (which He was not in favor of), and abuses. But he was also pastoral. The book said that John Paul I WAS going to supress or severely disipline the Jesuits. Back then, it was an issue. Today, with -18,500 members since Vatican II and less than 700 Jesuits remaining in Italy (nearly 4,000 before Vatican II) it's pretty much a non issue.
Also, the book said that John Paul I did nut have much love for some of what came from Vatican II (liturgically), so we might have had a different kind of Church today. Unfortunatly in some regard, it was Vatican II business as usuall from 1978-2005. It might not have been that way if John Paul I had had a reign at least as long as Paul VI (15 years).
Considering what He's been trying to do....with Summorum Pontificum etc., I hope Pope Benedict XVI has 15 years.
Not likely, but I hope so.

Anonymous said...

What a pithy and so sad! But this IS the real Catholic Church, not the one, one sees on EWTN.

Gillibrand said...

The spirit of Vatican II had better wake up and smell the coffee. There will not be a church left in Germany in twenty years time on an utterly constant downward trend that started as early as the late 30s. Other countries started to decline after the Council-the Rhine did indeed flow into the Tiber

alsaticus said...

The resistance of bishops is not mainly an Italian problem. On the contrary !
The Italian Conference has not challenged the papal authority because the minority of trad-hating bishops remains still a ... minority and no general rules have been imposed.

The real resistance of bishops can be seen first in Germany with the Conference who is openly contesting the papal authority forbidding the personal parishes ; it can be seen also in Poland and in a less aggressive way in Switzerland.
French Church is resisting actively but more "discreetly" for example, the Archbishop of Paris is practically forbidding his pastors to celebrate TLM. Many bishops are pressuring morally the priests in several ways so they will deny any request from the faithful.

A document from PCED would be nice indeed if it can nullify several of the outrageous provisions from the corrupted GermChurch.
The papal authority is finally at stake in this question from the beginning. The CELAM bishops have grossly humiliated the pope with their scandalous final document.

Anonymous said...

Let us hope the Holy Father does everyone a favour and draws his last breath soon.

The 1962 missal can be abrogated yet again, this time with a silver stake thurst through its foul heart and the Church can move on.

If people want such 1960's rubbish they can join Old Marcel's sect.

Richard said...

Deo gratias!

Statius said...

Well Mr. bitter anonymous, I think we can agree that sixties rubbish ought to go. We should bring back the '57 Missal.

Why the sudden appearance of these trolls? It must be that they've really been shaken up this time.

A great upheaval, perhaps in the depths of our Church must have snapped their roots. Or something similar.

Anonymous said...

It is very interesting what is coming out in this post-MP world. I went over to La Croix and read the article by Isabelle de Gaulmyn "Par petites touches, Benoit XVI impose sa vision de la liturgie" and found two very telling quotes (which I have translated):

". . . according to Bishop Perl, the theologies that underlie these two formes of the liturgy are different. The liturgy of the Tridentine Rite is more theocentric (that is, centered on God), but it is, all the same, very Catholic!"

and later on:

"But the question posed was exactly of a theological order: several bishops have judged (believe) that the ecclesiology of the old Missal is incompatible with the second Vatican council."

So, there you have it. The SSPX is correct when they say that there is much more to their differences with the Novus Order Church than just the liturgy. Many bishops are now admitting that they believe the theology of the Church about herself has changed (although we know that that cannot be so ontologically). What has been done in the name of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass is now surfacing for all to see. No more obscure wording. No more whispers and winks.

(My translation is rough, but I wanted to get this out.)
OKC Trad

Brian Day said...

Anonymous said...
Let us hope the Holy Father does everyone a favour and draws his last breath soon.


How sad to wish for the death of the Pope.

OKC Trad,

Very interesting catch.

Syriacus said...

"Why the sudden appearance of these trolls? It must be that they've really been shaken up this time.

A great upheaval, perhaps in the depths of our Church must have snapped their roots. Or something similar."




Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio;
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:
tuque, Princeps militiae caelestis,
Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,
qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo,
divina virtute in infernum detrude.

Amen.

Anselm said...

If this is true, then thanks be to God.

Mike said...

To the person who wished death upon the pope; if you are indeed Catholic, your action is a disgraceful and despicable reflection on your own miserable character.

Moretben said...

...and the principles informing it...

Anonymous said...

Oggi santa Messa "Straordinaria"
Università Cattolica di Milano
220 persone!

http://www.cattoliciromani.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12183

dcs said...

The resistance of bishops is not mainly an Italian problem. On the contrary !

I don't think that the little blurb posted here suggests it is. What is implied, I think, is that the resistance of the Italian bishops is surprising, not that their resistance is particularly stubborn.

Jordan Potter said...

Fr. O'Leary said: What a waste of time and energy! B16 battling the resistance of Italian bishops to his ill-advised motu proprio is as futile an exercise of papal power as the absurd two years of discussion on the theological status of limbo.

In principle, battling error is never a waste of time and energy, though certain strategies used in the battle can be futile or ineffective.

For a nice breath of fresh air, pop over to Fr. Zuhlsdorf's weblog and read what Archbishop Ranjith has said about episcopal resistance to Summorum Pontificum.

Neil Mulholland said...

"Spirit of Vatican ii" and Mr. "I hope the Pope dies" Anonymous are clear manifest proof that the Novus Ordo rots the brain.
Stupidity is perhaps the world's most common non-contagious disease.

To both of you: leave the thinking to those of us who have the requisite equipment.

Edgar said...

All, when reading comments such as the ones from "Father" O'leary or the Anonymous one has to take in consideration their age and background.

Check out other comments and postures the good "Father" has made in other blogs:

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/08/perplexing-sayings-of-fr-oleary.html

Let's better pray for them and hope they see the true light before the end.

Anonymous said...

Stay tuned for the latest volley from Bishop Donald Trautman of the Diocese of Erie. A "Decree of Promulgation of the Instruction Norms fo the Implementation of the motu proprio Apostolic Letter Concerning the Extraordinary Form of the Celebration of the Mass and Sacraments Summorum Pontificum in the Diocses of Erie was given at the Chancery on October 5th, 2007 and realeased on October 11th. This "Decree of Promulgation" of norms for the implementaion etc. will acquire the force of particular law for the Diocse of Erie on November 1, 2007. To describe Bishop Trautman's latest pronouncement as "restrictive" would be an understatement. I suspect someone will be uploading it to the web shortly.

One can only hope and pray that the rumored vatican directive on Summorum Pontificum does, in fact, come out soon. The opposition is becoming formidable.

Anonymous said...

"One can only hope and pray that the rumored vatican directive on Summorum Pontificum does, in fact, come out soon. The opposition is becoming formidable."

ROTFL!

Anonymous said...

Bishops who resist Summorum Pontificum: “instruments of the devil”
Article reproduced from WDTPRS Blog

A kind reader sent me this fascinating excerpt from a talk given by His Excellency Most Rev. Malcolm Ranjith, Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments.

The talk was entitled “Faith, Obedience and Theology” and was delivered at the annual meeting of the Dutch Latin Liturgy Association (Vereniging voor Latijnse Liturgie) in ’s-Hertogenbosch (The Netherlands) on 6 October 2007. He gave the talk in English, but the person who sent it to me translated it from Dutch. So, it probably varies a little from the original English, which perhaps someone out there can dig up for us.

Read this, with my emphases.

“The motu proprio Summorum Pontificum on the Latin Liturgy of July 7th 2007 is the fruit of a deep reflection by our Pope on the mission of the Church. It is not up to us, who wear ecclesiastical purple and red, to draw this into question, to be disobedient and make the motu proprio void by our own little, tittle rules. Even not if they were made by a bishops conference. Even bishops do not have this right. What the Holy Fathers says, has to be obeyed in the Church. If we do not follow this principle, we will allow ourselves to be used as instruments of the devil, and nobody else. This will lead to discord in the Church, and slows down her mission. We do not have the time to waste on this. Else we behave like emperor Nero, fiddling on his violin while Rome was burning. The churches are emptying, there are no vocations, the seminaries are empty. Priests become older and older, and young priests are scarce.”

NB: His Excellency has made a connect between Pope Benedict’s decision to promulgate Summorum Pontificum and a remedy for ills in the Church, namely. empty churches, emtpy seminaries. Thus, this is something willed by God, for it comes from Peter as something for the good of the church at its most critical points of attack by the devil, namely, what happens in a church (worship of God and sanctification through the sacraments, especially Holy Mass) and what happens in a seminary (men are formed to be alter Christus). Thus, anyone who resists the provisions of the Motu Proprio, aimed at healing these problems of the Church, actually aids the Enemy of the soul and becomes the devil’s pawns.

DEO GRATIAS!

http://syriancatholic.blogspot.com/2007/10/bishops-who-resist-summorum-pontificum.html

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/10/archp-ranjith-on-bishops-who-resist-summorum-pontificum-instruments-of-the-devil/

http://www.latijnseliturgie.nl/index_3.html

John L said...

Gillibrand; you perhaps do not realise that the bishops in charge of the German church do not care that it is becoming extinct. This is not a change for the worse in their view, because it just means a broader acceptance of the secular outlook which they in fact hold; people who leave the Church for unbelief are not making a real change for the worse in their view, just exercising a lifestyle option. These bishops aren't Catholics. It's not good to act as if such bishops can be expected to be concerned about the decline and disappearance of the Church in their countries, because that contributes to the pretense that they are Catholics - the pretense that is essential to their continuing their nefarious ways.

Michael said...

John 1 says "these bishops are not Catholics" reminds me of an early 90's experience. Matter of factly, Matthew Clark stated from the pulpit:.."after all, Jesus had to find out who he was." When the Rochester Diocese decided to ignore that Planned Parenthood would be directly supported by The United Way, I understood. The plan, all along, had been to dismember and destroy the religion while coupling with secular 'good works' agendas. Priests, parishes, schools are obstacles. The New Order was invincible. The fear of the TLM is an awesome tribute.

j hughes dunphy said...

What is needed is a total abrogation of communion in the hand by this brave pontiff for it has reeked more havoc in the Church than anything else: witness the "Catilinarian arrogance" of Archbishop George Niederhaur of San Francisco handing out communion to the infamous and blasphemous Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence 'whatevers' on http://www.realclearreligion.com and you'll see why we need hat removals, anathemas, and excommunications--the real weapons of Roman Catholic Orthodoxy to checkmate these Judas Priests who are running wild today.
Let us pray mightily to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, the Eternal High Priest, to strengthen this pontiff. God bless us all!

j hughes dunphy
http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com

Anonymous said...

Messa in latino, esclusiva di “Petrus” - Parla Monsignor Perl della Commissione 'Ecclesia Dei': “Troppi Vescovi e sacerdoti disubbidienti, al vaglio una nota chiarificatrice sul Motu Proprio del Papa”


di Bruno Volpe

CITTA’ DEL VATICANO - “E’ vero, stiamo redigendo un documento-istruzione sulla giusta interpretazione del Motu Proprio ‘Summorum Pontificum’ che la liberalizzato la Messa secondo i libri liturgici di San Pio V cosi’ come modificati dal Beato Giovanni XXIII“. Lo afferma in un’intervista esclusiva a “Petrus” Monsignor Camille Perl, Segretario della Pontificia Commissione ‘Ecclesia Dei’, che aggiunge: “Pur non essendo una Congregazione, abbiamo ricevuto la facoltà di preparare questa nota per la definizione di alcuni aspetti del Motu Proprio papale quale, ad esempio, quello del gruppo stabile. Dovremo cioè chiarire per gruppo stabile cosa si intende, quante persone precisqamente dovranno chiedere al proprio parroco di celebrare con il rito pre-conciliare“.

Monsignor Perl, l’istruzione si deve alle varie contestazioni sollevate da vescovi e sacerdoti contrari alle nuove norme sull’accesso alla Messa con rito tridentino?

“La situazione è sotto gli occhi di tutti. Del resto, dopo il Motu Proprio del Papa era lecito aspettarsi reazioni contrastanti. Alcuni hanno manifestato entusiasmo, altri no. Eppure basterebbe considerare che il Motu Proprio non è caduto dal cielo, ma è il frutto di un lungo cammino”.

Allora perchè alcuni vescovi e molti sacerdoti non lo accettano?

“Bisognerebbe chiederlo a loro. Personalmente, credo che il problema sia di ordine generale. Oggi, in tutti i campi della società, si è perso il senso dell’obbedienza e del rispetto dell’autorità. Come dire, in pochi sono davvero capaci di ubbidire“.

Eppure il rito tridentino di San Pio V, caratterizzato da bellezza liturgica e spiritualità, non è mai stato abolito dalla Chiesa…

“Assolutamente no, il Concilio Vaticano II non ha mai cancellato il messale anteriore. Ritengo che il Papa Benedetto XVI abbia fatto bene a liberalizzarlo, valorizzando così un patrimonio e un gioiello della Chiesa. Non voglio fare una comparazione tra la Messa di Papa Paolo VI e quella anteriore, non sarebbe giusto. Ma non è storicamente sensato voler cancellare il valore della tradizione”.

E intanto gli abusi liturgici, definiti “al limite del sopportabile” dallo stesso Benedetto XVI nel Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum”, sono sempre maggiori…

“Non me ne parli. E nessuno riesce ad eliminarli, proprio perchè, come le ho detto, non esiste il senso del rispetto dell’autorità. La liturgia non si può imporre, ma mi sembra giusto affermare che dopo il Concilio Vaticano II, e con questo non voglio ovviamente emettere alcuna sentenza di condanna, la Messa alcune volte si è trasformata in qualcosa di emozionale, e così è stato messo da parte il suo reale valore di sacrificio e di dono. Si è pensato che il nuovo fosse migliore, che il nuovo sia sempre migliore. Succede così anche nella vita di tutti i giorni, le scarpe nuove vengono considerate meglio di quelle vecchie…”.

In ultimo, un chiarimento: i fedeli in comunione con il Papa e la Chiesa di Roma possono assistere a Messe della Fraternita’ di San Pio X o incombono nella scomunica?

“Non sono assolutamente scomunicati coloro i quali assistano ad una Messa della fraternità di San Pio X. La liturgia è valida, anche se loro sono considerati scismatici. Del resto, è valida per i cattolici anche la liturgia degli ortodossi“.

Nella foto, l'allora Cardinale Joseph Ratzinger mentre presiede una Santa Messa celebrata con il rito tridentino di San Pio V.

http://www.papanews.it/#a

humboldt said...

"What is needed is a total abrogation of communion in the hand by this brave pontiff for it has reeked more havoc in the Church than anything else:. . . "

If the Pope abrogates this pagan custome, I will believe in him again.

Anonymous said...

Echoing anonymous #1 on the Servant of God John Paul I, so many great things might have been expected from his pontificate, not the least of which being the consecration of Russia and its conversion to the Catholic Faith, as prefigured in the circumstances of the mysterious death of Metropolitan Nikodim in the Holy Father's arms. John Paul I expressed his intention to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and his election as Pope and violent death seem to have been foretold to him by no less than Sr. Lucy in Coimbra in 1977.

A good online book treating this is at http://www.crc-internet.org/JP1/Fatima4.htm