Rorate Caeli

Breaking news from the most useless and expensive
debate society in the world

Summary: In the most liberal religious building in Italy (Bose), the most useless debate society in history keeps on as if nothing had changed.

The Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission has completed the first meeting of its new phase (ARCIC III) at the Monastery of Bose in northern Italy (May 17-27, 2011). The Commission, chaired by the Most Reverend David Moxon (Anglican Archbishop of the New Zealand Dioceses) and the Most Reverend Bernard Longley (Roman Catholic Archbishop of Birmingham) comprises eighteen theologians from a wide range of backgrounds across the world. [If you wish to waste your time, keep reading it here.]
The Anglican side included a delightful provocation: a "bishopess" (the "Right Reverend" Linda Nicholls, Area "Bishop" for Trent-Durham, "Diocese" of Toronto) and a "canoness" ("Canon" Alyson Barnett-Cowan, pictured above in Saint Peter's with another Anglican "canon"- image source). The ladies, of course, helped the number of ordained clerics on the Anglican side reach the total of zero.

So, "Whence Ecumenism," Michael Davies's repeated question regarding ARCIC? The Personal Ordinariates mandated by Anglicanorum Coetibus are the true ecumenism, not ARCIC. But it is hard, very hard, to give up a lifetime of soft theology, empty careerism, free travel, free lodging, and free food.

Sancta Dei Genetrix, Regina Angliae, ora pro nobis.
Sancte Augustine, ora pro nobis.

33 comments:

mcitl said...

Ouch.

The truth hurts?

ARCIC? No Thanks. said...

You may wish to censor this comment as being rather rude but it graphically explains how some in the UK see this 'useless' and faith-damaging committee.

In the early 1980s I was talking to a venerable old Benedictine and the subject of ARCIC came up. He was a very mild mannered man but he suddenly blew his top and shouted "ARCIC! It should be called ARSE KICK because that it what they need."

In the minds of most rational people this movement, this child of the 1960s, lost all credibility more than 25 years ago but is still breathing because the hierarchies of the Catholic Church in the UK and the Church of England are so intertwined they are still pursuing the unobtainable utopia of 'unity'. They have embraced each other over all kinds of issues but they cannot get over the unsurmountable issue of the Real Presence so they should all accept the inevitable and call it a day.

LeonG said...

To be fair it has to be noted that such discussions and their sequel are quote -

"In response to the Programme set forth by Pope Benedict and Archbishop Rowan Williams in their 2006 Common Declaration, [where] discussions have focussed on the interrelated issues: the Church as Communion, local and universal, and how in communion the local and universal Church come to discern right ethical teaching."

How, therefore, can this process be criticised without mention being made of their prestigious sponsors?

Jack said...

There is no problem with a woman being called a canoness. There were, and as far as I know still are, certain communities of women called canonesses, mostly Augustinian.

New Catholic said...

That is not the case, Jack. She is a canoness as in a "female canon", as a priest who is canon of the chapter of a cathedral.

Anonymous said...

Having supressed the radical liberal corrupt Cistercians at the Basilica/Abbey of Santa Croce in Gerusalemmme in Rome, they shuld now set their sites on disbanding and supressing this Bose monastery and disbanding the handful of equally radical ecumaniacs that live there.

Roman Catholicism has about as much in common with Protestantism, and Anglicanism, as a fish does with a chimpanzee!

Jeremiah Methuselah said...

Quite clearly the Most Reverend Bernard has plenty time on his hands - or an agenda - if he can afford to go off to Bose to re-examine how the :

"commitment to the common goal of the restoration of complete communion in faith and sacramental life"

with
"The Right Reverend Linda Nicholls, Area Bishop for Trent-Durham, Diocese of Toronto" ?

Excuse me My Lord - Right Reverend Bishop Linda" !? Must I kiss her episcopal ring then should our paths cross (parce nobis Domine) ?

This is farcical, truly. ARCIC was consigned to the dustbin ages ago, surely ?

Have these guys given the slightest thought to the consequences of what they are doing ? When, O When will the farce end ?

Deus, miserere mei.

PS - Dan, very good, you beat me to it.

Anonymous said...

Jack never seems to get anything right. Here he goes again:

"There is no problem with a woman being called a canoness. There were, and as far as I know still are, certain communities of women called canonesses, mostly Augustinian."

Religious canonesses are merely those who live as parallel to religious canons, in community. Lay canons are priests forming a chapter in the cathedral. This woman (whom I mistook for a man when I saw the picture) is not wearing the habit of a canoness but is dressed as a lay canon, as a priest.

P.K.T.P.

LeonG said...

"Having supressed the radical liberal corrupt Cistercians at the Basilica/Abbey of Santa Croce in Gerusalemmme in Rome..."

Anonymous said - this could have been done many years ago but it was not typically enough. It was only when it had becomne too publicly embarrassing before anything was effected.

Knight of Malta said...

"But it is hard, very hard, to give up a lifetime of soft theology, empty careerism, free travel, free lodging, and free food" LOL!

That picture is priceless too!

That collared woman has a chagrined face, if I've ever seen one!

As a father of four daughters, I'm a "feminist" of sorts; e.g. I honor and even pray to women ( e.g. Mary).

No other religion on earth honors women the way the Catholic faith does.

Protestants, including Anglicans, tear at the heart of the Church; what it their ultimate goal? Don't they understand that God is unchanging and unchangeable?

Athanasius said...

"These wolves are the N.O. 'magic circle' bishops of England".

Too true, PKTP, and we in England and Wales have to live under their malign jurisdiction.

They are currying favour with Rome, by publicly supporting the Ordinariate, getting in first with the NO translation; appearing to support the 'new' evangelisation' by suggesting we return to Friday abstinence, and contemplating the return of a couple of holidays of obligation. All this so Vinny gets a red hat when CMOC reaches 80. What's next, a white cassock for England??

Presumably, they hope Rome doesn't see through their fatuous PR stunts - ticks in the boxes following the pep-talk from the Holy Father at Oscott College.

With a newly-compliant nuncio, nothing is going to change over here. A couple of weeks cosying up in Bose with old bats in cassocks is about the best they can manage.

Jesus, convert England (and Wales).

Stu said...

"The ladies, of course, helped the number of ordained clerics on the Anglican side reach the total of zero."
---------

While perhaps snarky, that comment made me chuckle out loud.

Timothy Mulligan said...

I could be wrong, but the third comment ("ARCIC? No Thanks. said...") is remarkably redolent of a certain Fr. H.

Ligusticus said...

"On Sunday 21 November, I was in St Peter's Basilica in Rome for the mass which celebrated the appointment of Kurt Koch as a cardinal, one of 24 new cardinals created by Pope Benedict XVI. Cardinal Koch is formerly the Bishop of Basel but now is the President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity (PCPCU). The PCPCU is the Vatican dicastery responsible for ecumenical dialogue including the official dialogue and relations between the Roman Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion. He takes over from Cardinal Walter Kasper who retired earlier this year.

Our official relations with the Roman Catholic Church continue to be very good. Indeed, the next phase of our international dialogue, ARCIC, is in final preparations. The membership of the new commission has been decided by both Anglican and Roman Catholic authorities and plans for the first plenary session are under way. This next phase of ARCIC will look at the question of the nature of the authority belonging to the local Church and its relation to the universal Church.

Anglican Communion officials, Secretary General the Revd Canon Kenneth Kearon, Director of Unity, Faith and Order, the Revd Canon Alyson Barnett Cowan were also present for the mass for the new cardinals. Just before the Eucharist began, Canon Barnett Cowan received a message on her mobile telephone that her daughter-in-law had given birth to twins. *It is almost certain that never before has a priest received news that she became a grandmother while waiting for a papal mass to begin in St Peter's basilica!*

(Canon Barnett Cowan is the Anglican Co-Secretary of ARCIC. She is pictured below on the left, with Canon Kenneth Kearon.) "


http://eurobishop.blogspot.com/2010/11/new-head-of-vaticans-ecumenical.html

Brian said...

Where is the TAC of England, with Bishop Mercer and his 24 merry applicants? That's odd. They are not coming across with the others.

Perhaps they would do better to "come across" to the SSPX.

Anonymous said...

As we all chuckle, could any of the chucklers explain the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury was allowed to celebrate an Anglican communion service with incense on the same altar at Santa Sabina's that His Holiness says mass on each Ash Wednesday? He was surrounded by Dominican Friars. I have yet to hear an explanation especially given the fact that there is an Anglican church in Rome and he had just visited Pope Benedict XVI. Still chuckling?

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that such thins as "Bishopess and cannonesses" are allowed in to the Vatican much less in two one our churches it is a scandal of the first order.

Pascendi said...

The irony is that were Henry VIII alive today to a "man/woman"?? he'd have them beheaded (if they were lucky) for heresy.

Anonymous said...

Some of you fussing and fuming over a woman who does not profess to be Catholic in priest's garb better get over yourselves, for all over this country there are young women and girls who do profess to be Catholic and are present at the offering of the sacrifice of the Mass dressed all the same in priest's garb: cassocks.

Ben Vallejo said...

I think you are too harsh. You should have noticed that ARCIC III will have

"receptive ecumenism’, which seeks to make ecumenical progress by learning from our partner, rather than simply asking our partner to learn from us."

This is the obvious and only thing to do. After all in fidelity to the apostolic traditions of the Orthodox, Oriental and Catholic churches, the Roman Church will never ordain women. Perhaps the Anglicans will come to their senses! And I believe they will even if it takes centuries. Even in England, there is a growing movement to return the CoE to its Biblical and Catholic foundations. The vote on female bishops in the next synod (where it appears that a derailment of the expected "aye" will be extremely threatened by evangelicals and the remaining Anglo Catholics)

The Good Lord can use ARCIC too as a channel of His grace! Who knows? But the Blessed Virgin Mary has foretold in a private revelation that this will happen.

The Ordinariates are just the first fruits of the "drawing near of the Anglican Communion to the See of Rome' This is something that the Lady of All Nations prophesied. This Marian private revelation to a Dutch woman (declared worthy of belief by the local Catholic bishop) is exceptional for clearly referring to the Anglican Communion and bringing the communion nearer to Rome. These revelations never made sense until now.

The Blessed Virgin did not say that the Anglicans be absorbed by Rome but to be drawn closer and closer to Rome, to the extent that they will recognize the Primacy and jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome

It is in that spirit we should view ARCIC. The ecumenical dynamics have changed with Anglicanorum coetibus and this will impel the Anglican Communion to come closer to Rome. Some Anglicans will never agree to that but I believe many would.

So instead of commenting on the mannish look of the woman Anglican cleric on the commission, readers here should pray and offer Masses that

1) In the near term, the final vote to pass the "Women in the Episcopate" will be defeated by a combined Evangelical and remaining Anglo Catholic vote in the next Synod of the CoE. This is the first necessary step for the reversal of the innovation of ordaining women as priests. The CoE is formally still in the state of "reception" and Rowan Williams has publicly said that the whole experiment can be reversed. Recall that the measure to pass the Women Priests measure barely passed due to the waffling of two Evangelical delegates. We have to pray that the Evangelicals make amends for this error.

2) That the American, Canadian and Australian Ordinariates get set up soon

and

3) That Rowan Williams recover from his theological waffling on a) gays, b) same sex unions, c)female priests (he has indicated that it was a bad idea to the howl of CoE femmies!). In short, pray that Rowan Williams return to the Anglo Catholic faith he was raised in. But take note we are NOT EXPECTING or even PRAYING that Rowan join the Ordinariate even if that will be a splendid idea for it will fulfill Rowan's dream of living a more contemplative priestly life!

When that happens, then we will see the pansexualist US Episcopal Church and its Canadian counterpart implode into nothingness and ACNA will be left to preserve Anglicanism in North America. We don't expect ACNA to be Anglo Catholic but we will expect ACNA to stand firm and finally reject this innovation of women priests. ACNA then as God wills it will be drawn closer to the Roman See.

That is our mission as Catholics. We have to bring the Anglican Communion closer to the Roman See.

Because as the Blessed Virgin Mary has foretold, once this happens, the other Protestants will follow.

And with the Ordinariates as the first fruits, we are seeing the Lutherans even starting their move towards the See of Rome.

Ben Vallejo said...

"As we all chuckle, could any of the chucklers explain the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury was allowed to celebrate an Anglican communion service with incense on the same altar at Santa Sabina's that His Holiness says mass on each Ash Wednesday?"

Rowan Cantuar has preached at Mass in Lourdes, a privilege given to clerics with valid orders. His sermon was beautifully and traditionally Catholic and sent the Evangelical wing of the CoE in ballistic mode. Perhaps we should all chuckle. After all some Vatican insiders have said that if ever Rowan decides to swim over, there will be "prudent doubt" on the (in)validity of his orders.

But of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Perhaps we should really really pray that Rowan joins the Ordinariate. At his ordination as a Catholic priest, we will soon find more about this "prudent doubt"!

Or short of this look at the Pope's eye when the subject of validity of Rowan's apostolic orders are raised. After Vespers with two Lutheran archbishops as co-presiders, Pope John Paul II was asked whether by allowing the Lutherans co preside at the high altar of St Peter's, that he recognized their orders.

The Pope with twinkle in his eye replied "Or the question can be asked whether by agreeing to co-preside with me, that they recognize my primacy"

It is really about the Pope's primacy!

ARCIC? No Thanks. said...

Timothy Mulligan said...
I could be wrong, but the third comment ("ARCIC? No Thanks. said...") is remarkably redolent of a certain Fr. H.

I can assure Timothy that I am not Father H, whoever he may be. I am a layman, and also a father (small f).

Augustine said...

I find the personal comments attacking that Anglican woman quite awful. At worst she is misguided, and all you lot can do is snipe about her appearence! For shame.

shadowlands said...

Dan said:

'Am I the only one shocked to see this old bag in a priest's costume standing in St Peter's? '

The old bag, as you term her, is fearfully and wonderfully made. Christ Jesus died for her, He suffered terribly for that 'old bag'

Perhaps God will allow you to use and abuse her more fittingly in heaven, as a char-woman/bag in the mansion He is lovingly preparing for you, now that He has risen from His immense sufferings.

Then again, maybe you will be called to give an account for the words you have used, when referring to his child, His creation.

Jeremiah Methuselah said...

'Quite clearly the Most Reverend Bernard has plenty time on his hands - or an agenda - '

And you can watch your fancy mouth too, that's my Bish you're knocking. I'm committed to pray the rosary every Monday for him. I don't need liturgically elite pharisees heckling from their so called secure pass to heaven seats.

I was taught there was a layer in hell for those full of guile, but not sure they mention a place in heaven for such mouths?

What a vile place this is, altogether.

Sixupman said...

True Anglo-Catholics used a Missal identical to that of the Old Rite, except in English and reference to the pope as "pastor inter pares". Some, indeed, used Latin Missals and prayer books, the latter for Benediction, etc.

The Anglicans, of the Ordinariate, are as far as I can discern arte largely, but more devout, NOM'ers!

Anonymous said...

Check out this scary one.
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81808_116555_ENG_HTM.htm

Anonymous said...

What???? The Archbishop of Canterbury was allowed to officiate on the altar of the Dominican Order's Mother House in Rome and there were no burnings at the stake? Did the canoness celebrate there too? Well I never. Where is Torquemada when we need him?

New Catholic said...

She might as well have celebrated with him, what difference would it have made?... Bread is bread.

As for dear S.R.E.Card. Turrecremata, hopefully he is in heaven, interceding for the Church he loved so much. You probably mean his nephew, Inquisitor-General of the Spains - another man who loved the Church deeply: el martillo de los herejes, la luz de España, el salvador de su país, el honor de su Orden. If you meant to mock either of them, you came to the wrong place.

NC

Anonymous said...

The conciliar church more and more resembles this circus of absurd curiosities called anglican "church". It speaks volumes that this "canoness" in costume is allowed entrance to St. Peter's.

Anonymous said...

Augustine wrote:

"I find the personal comments attacking that Anglican woman quite awful. At worst she is misguided, and all you lot can do is snipe about her appearence! For shame."

I agree. The principals and (or non- principals)and behaviour can be crticised without resorting to personal insults.

Well said SHADOWLANDS! Except the blog is not a vile place (I presume that's what you are referring to) - It's an excellent blog - with some rather bad-mouthed individuals (thinking they are being smart)but who definitely taint some of the discussons with their nasty comments. Isn't it possible to be witty in criticism without stooping so low?

Barbara

Anonymous said...

Some of you show no charity in the comments. "I am not Spartacus", you might be very orthodox in doctrine, but I feel ashamed with your lack of charity. If we forget charity, we are useless for God.
This woman might be in error, and needs compassion and repentance. Something she won't do if we mock and bully her.

Jordanes551 said...

I had noted that yesterday was the feast of St. Augustine of Canterbury, but did not have time to, as I intended, post the prayer from St. Augustine's Mass, which is certainly fitting for this weblog post:

"O God, by the preaching and miracles of Blessed Augustine, Thy Confessor and Bishop, Thou deigned to shed upon the English people the light of the true Faith; grant that, through his intercession, the hearts of those who err may return to the unity of Thy truth, and that we may be of one mind in doing Thy will. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who liveth and reigneth with Thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, world without end. Amen."

A very beautiful intercession on behalf of the schismatic, heretical Church of England, that they may be brought back into the unity and truth of the Catholic Church. If that is not the true purpose of ARCIC, then to hell with it.

Jordanes551 said...

This woman might be in error, and needs compassion and repentance.

Given her visible gender confusion as well as her Anglicanism, there's no question that she is in grave error, and needs compassion and repentance. Let us all pray for her, then.