Rorate Caeli

Cardinal Schonborn and Medjugorje: the Umpteenth Chapter (UPDATED)

In a repeat of last year's scandal, a 'seer' of Medjugorje has been invited once more to the Stephansdom of Vienna to give his 'testimony'. The whole-evening event (which will be live-streamed on the Internet) will culminate in a live 'apparition' followed by a Mass celebrated by Christoph Cardinal Schonborn. This event is in line with Schonborn's repeated gestures of support for this strange phenomenon, which is supposedly under investigation by the "Ruini Commission".


November 17th pray with Ivan & Cardinal Schoenborn in St. Stephens Cathedral (Live stream on MaryTV.tv)!

Here is the schedule for November 17, 2011:

4:00 PM Vienna (10:00 AM USA-EST): Testimonies, including Magnus MacFarlane-Barrow, founder of MARY's MEALS
5:00 PM Vienna (11:00 AM USA-EST): Ivan's Testimony
6:00 PM Vienna (12:00 PM USA-EST): Rosary
6:40 PM Vienna (12:40 PM USA-EST): Apparition
7:00 PM Vienna (1:00 PM USA-EST): Holy Mass - Presider and Homilist, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn
8:00 PM Vienna (2:00 PM USA-EST): Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament
9:00 PM Vienna (3:00 PM USA-EST): Adoration ends

UPDATE 1: The event in Stephansdom is but one of many scheduled "apparitions" that the various "seers" of Medjugorje plan to have in different churches (including three basilicas in Italy) throughout the month of November. (There is even a calendar of upcoming public apparitions.) The "Medjugorje Today TV" website also boasts that October 2011 saw a record-breaking number of communions at the alleged apparition site.

UPDATE 2: Not only will there be an 'apparition', but the 'Blessed Virgin Mary' will also 'bless' those viewing the event, and the religious articles that they will bring next to their computers! Thus says Ivan the seer!

Medjugorje visionary Ivan Dragicevic’s apparition on November 17 in the Cathedral of Vienna will be live-streamed. According to Ivan, the Virgin Mary will bless all online viewers who pray along and follow the apparition, as if they had been physically present. Religious items brought next to the computer will also be blessed.

A six-digit number of people from all over the world will be praying in front of their computers when Medjugorje visionary Ivan Dragicevic’s apparition on November 17 in Vienna, Austria, is being live-streamed in English and Spanish by MaryTV, and in German by Kathnet.

Transmission will begin at 4 pm local time (GMT +1), equaling 10 am EST. The Rosary will be prayed from about 5 pm local time (11 am EST) before Ivan’s apparition at 5.40 (11.40 am EST).

MaryTV had 398,546 online viewers when Ivan last visited the Viennese Cathedral, on September 23rd 2010 along with fellow visionary Marija Pavlovic-Lunetti. Many were attracted by two unique charactereristics of the live-streamed apparitions. These two characteristics first surfaced when MaryTV streamed Ivan’s apparitions from Medjugorje on six consecutive days in July and August 2010:

“Ivan told us that those connected through the internet are prayed over by Our Lady the same as those kneeling right next to him during the apparition. And the religious items they have with them that they would like Our Lady to bless are blessed the same as the religious items placed right in front of her during the apparition” MaryTV President Denis Nolan recalls.

This unusual grace will be bestowed once more on November 17, and expectations are big at MaryTV...


The event comes a few weeks after the controversial exorcist Gabriel Amorth reportedly came out strongly in favor of Medjugorje and a few months after Schonborn had reportedly expressed optimism about the outcome of the Ruini Commission.

53 comments:

New Catholic said...

So he "sees" the "apparition" anywhere, at will, as if he were a "medium" in a Spiritualist séance?

Gratias said...

Cardinal Shoenborn shoul look after his rebellious modernist priests instead. Just to think the Muslims were once defeated at the gates of Vienna. It would not happen today with these weaklings. Arghhhh.

M. said...

New Catholic: Yes, they do. For a great summary of Medjugorje "apparitions", take a look at this text, by the Bishop of Mostar:
http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=101
as well as his 2006 homily in Međugorje:
http://www.cbismo.com/index.php?mod=vijest&vijest=71

Anonymous said...

It is most accommodating of the Queen of heaven and earth, God's most perfect and venerable mother to fit in with a TV schedule! How blinkered we can become.

rodrigo said...

Bizarre and depressing. Those who've not read it might be interested to know that Michael Davies' book on Medjugorje continues to be available for free download.

GQRep said...

Schonborn is a nutjob, a JP II favorite.

The Church in Austria is dead, except for small places where the SSPX and traditional Catholicism still exists.

Most of his priests are either gay, or supportive of homosexuality, and every other issue that the Church is against (women priests, married priests, inter-communion with Protestants, contraception, abortion, etc.).

THe state of the Austrian Church is the fault of Vatican II, the Novus Ordo, the original impetus for radical liberal bishops (Cardinal Franz Koenig), and the 50 years of Popes and Bishops since Vatican II.

There isn't much of the true Catholic Church left in any of Europe, thatnks fo these last 50 years, so the Muslims would have had no trouble overwhelming us.

Benedict XVI is just more of the same. Unfortunatly.

Crouchback said...

If the World Cup Final was being televised from Vienna ....what time would it likely to be broadcast...???

6.40 pm seems a little "convenient" squeezed in between the early evening novelty acts and whatever passes for "mass" entertainment on Austrian TV......I wonder how much that would differ from the "mass" entertainment of a Sunday morning...????

Ferraiuolo said...

Megaforgerie to me!

shane said...

Yes this man has long become a scandal. Which raises a question: why is Ignatius Press still printing his books?

Prof. Basto said...

Disgusting in an extreme level.

José Martínez Sánchez said...

It's extremely embarrasing so see a program schedule notifying that Our Lady is going to "appear" on TV...

Our beloved Kardinal does in fact incarnates a rather strange kind of faith.

Adfero said...

Ah, neocon Bishop Balloon Mass is back!

Yes, Ourl Lady fits this perfectly. Does she jump times zones as well?

I don't think it's Mary telling them all religions are equal. Sounds more like the Devil.

I am not Spartacus said...

Oncet, I went to Medjugorge driving a rusty Karmann Ghia and when I arrived there it turned into a red Maserati.

No, really...

benjoyce said...

Folks, I'm a trad and support the Latin Mass. But WRT Medjugorje, you trads are wrong. JPII and B16 have and will protect it and God's Grace will continue in abundance.

Don't forget, jealousy is a sin

JPII called it a continuation of Fatima, and wrote his friend in Poland saying he believed in Medjugorje.

Private revelation did not stop with Fatima. "the Woman Clothed with the Sun" is here. Rev 12. But you trads turn your hearts and try to taint the grace poured out to Mary's children.

Our Lady of Medjugorje states: "For those who speak against my apparitions here. They do Satan a favor."

Benjamin S.Joyce

Remember Fatima said...

It proves to be a continued distraction from the approved apparitions at Fatima!

RJS said...

"Cardinal Shoenborn shoul look after his rebellious modernist priests instead."

Oh I'm sure he looks after his modernist priests... as a father looks with pride upon a child following in his own footsetps.

Ferraiuolo said...

One more reason people don't go to Mass anymore in Austria. I wouldn't tolerate a buffoon like this much less Megaforgerie

Andrew said...

I have mixed feelings about these "apparitions". On the one hand, many people have been moved by Medjugojre to return to the practice of the Faith, to prayer, fasting and the sacrament of pennance. On the other hand, the "seers" seem to have a celebrity status and act as though they Our Lady appears at their demand (i.e. for television). I will reserve judgement (I will also act with respect because it might be real), that being said its better to focus on the approved appearences than ones that have yet to be confirmed by the Church.

Adfero said...

Benjoyce, so you honestly believe this, yet how do you explain there heresies reportedly spoken by this apparition? She prayed the Pater with them, which she didn't at Lourdes, for she has no trespasses to be forgiven; she said all Faiths are equal, etc. Does this sound like Our Lady?

A) Fr. Tomislav Vlasic: "Do you feel the Virgin as she who gives graces (which is the traditional Catholic doctrine of Mary, the Mediatrix of All Graces) or as she who prays to God? (true also, but in conformity with some Protestant theology and not the fulness of Catholic teaching.) Vicka: "As she who prays to God." ("Is the Virgin Mary Appearing at Medjugorje? by Fr. Rene Laurentin, 1984, p.135-136, 154)

B) The Virgin was accustomed to reciting the Our father with the seers. (But how could Our Lady say: "Forgive us our trespasses," since she has none? At Lourdes, Our Lady was careful to keep her lips closed during all the Paters and Aves, reciting only the Gloria Patris.)

C) Mirjana: "I recently asked the Virgin this question (whether many souls are damned), and she told me that nowadays most souls go to Purgatory." (book by Fr. Faricy, p. 64)

(...a comforting thought, perhaps, but opposite to the teaching of Fatima, St. Louis de Montfort, Pope Gregory the Great, St. Alphonsus, St. Anthony Claret, St. Augustine, etc., etc.)

D) Oct. 1, 1981: "All religions are equal before God," says the Virgin. (Chronological Corpus of Medjugorje, p. 317)

E) The Virgin: "I do not dispose of all graces...Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary." (Chron. Corp. p.181, 277-278)

F) "In God there are no divisions or religions; it is you in the world who have created divisions." (Faricy, p.51)

G) "God directs all denominations as a king directs his subjects, through the medium of his ministers" ("The Apparitions at Medjugorje," by Fr. Svat Kraljevic, 1984, p.58)

H) "Each one's religion must be respected, and you must preserve yours for yourselves and for your children." (Kraljevic, p.68)

I) "The Virgin added: 'It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children." (Fr. Ljubic, p.71)

(...unbaptized Muslims equal to the baptized, who by this fact are the adopted children of God?)

Adfero said...

Also, look at the religious and the Faithful who have left the Church over this, and are now going to invalid Masses, Masses said by Old Catholics, etc.

Since when did Our Mother come to earth and separate her flock from her Son's Church?

LeonG said...

Apparitions on tap: this is no more or less than spiritualism. The official Church position is always "non constat de spiritualitater". However, the Medjugorie minions dispute every argument including this one.

rodrigo said gives us one of the best analyses on the topic. On top of this, sound knowledge of The Roman Catholic Faith demonstrates the charade for what it is. Davies describes Medjugorie as the greatest hoax in the history of The Catholic Church. While we may not agree with this conclusion, it certainly is a massive global confidence trick.

LeonG said...

Thank you Adfero, your list is accurate. This amounts to heresy. Also, the behaviour of those one would expect to be exemplary has proven to be no better than everyday confidence tricksters.

Fred said...

To GQRep and your bizarre quote
"Because Ignatius Press is not really Catholic. It is neocon-Catholic (i.e., Vatican II Catholic, "JP II we-love-yu" type Catholic. Alot of show, a brave front, but nothing of substance behind it."

Who agrees with everything every publisher publishes? I don't like everything they publish, but Ignatius publishes a lot of great books, just for instance, The Heresy of Formlessness. Maybe you think Chesterton was a lot of liberal bunk, too? Ignatius publishes a lot of Chesterton, buddy.

And who appointed a blowhard like you the arbiter of all things Catholic?

Adfero said...

What's more than this, claiming these apparitions are real, when no teaching authority has proclaimed them to be so, is very serious. I would even venture this could be considered blasphemy against God, for ever claiming His Mother would speak such evils.

ben ingledew said...

It would be better that this Bishop had never been Schönborn. :-)

M. A. said...

Just a couple of weeks ago, a cloistered religious asked me whether Rome had made a definitive statement against this farce. She wants to see an end to it and so do I.

We have been hearing for some time now that a Vatican-formed commission will be making a conclusive ruling, this in spite of already past negative decisions by legitimate authority.

Commission after commission after commission, when it is all so obvious that it is all a mockery of God and His holy Mother.

It is a downright sinful dereliction of duty to continue to string along countless naive and gullible people with the false hope that this satanic hoax is really our Lady speaking.

That Catholics accept these false apparitions as being from Heaven is proof that they have no firm foundation in the truths of their Faith.

Knight of Malta said...

"Apparition" at 6:40 and Mass at 7:00. I hope Ivan holds the "Gospa" to those twenty minutes! But then again she's like a portable Madonna, and appears wherever the seers want her to, so I'm sure Ivan has an on/off switch in his mind for when he wants the apparition to end.

"[Evil spirits] have at times recommended that which is good in order to hinder a greater good, and have encouraged persons to do a particular act of virtue that they may the more easily deceive the unwary..."
--Pope Benedict XIV, Servorum Dei beatifactione et Beatorum canonizatione.

I am not Spartacus said...

Mary was born on August 5. I know her actual birth date because she told one of the Medj. seers. All you trads prolly still celebrate her birth on the wrong date, don't you?

http://tinyurl.com/8xlvmwe

Adfero said...

"Five years ago, the Community of Caritas hosted the Queen of Heaven on Her birthday."

Diabolical disorientation.

Bernonensis said...

Spartacus,

Is that Gregorian or Julian calendar? Or are they also "equal" in God's eyes?

I am not Spartacus said...

I expect The Commission to punt by taking a decision that additional study is necessary or that no definite decision could be reached despite the truth that two local Bishops have ruled there is no evidence of Marian Apparition.

http://tinyurl.com/3r9rnxw

The Catholic Church is going through a time of great testing and this great testing comes on the heels of Pope Blessed John XXIII opening speech to the Second Vatican Council when he, speaking for the Church, forswore the use of Ecclesiastical Discipline - without which, the Great Dom Prosper Gueranger reminds us, all is chaos.

Momentous events, like Fatima, now seem evanescent, especialy after reading Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger's “Theological Commentary” on the “Message of Fatima” which, for me at least, seemed excesssively psychologial to the point where what happened to the children at Fatima has now passed into the mists of time and not only is Fatima no longer applicable to the present but that what the seers did or did not see is open to question.

There is simply no solidity to be found outside of the Traditional Orders.

Knight of Malta said...

Three of the seers started down the path to the religious life but abandoned it. If the primary end of the married life is children, let's take a look at the seers, all of whom are married, and how many children they have (could it be that too many children could impact their world-touring?):

Vicka Ivanković-2
Mirjana Dragicevic-2
Jakov Colo-3
Ivan Dragicevic-4
Marija Pavlovic-4
Ivanka Ivankovic-3

I'm certainly not judging here; the Church allows NFP (or does is? Popes can be wrong, and Humanae Vitae is not ex cathedra dogma). Four kids is still a lot--I should know since I have five. But something seems terribly amiss that out of six seers--who purportedly speak with the Mother of God--that not one of them joined a religious order.

I used to strongly believe in Medjugorje, and wrote my conversion story here (that is, my conversion from the "Gospa" back to the real Mother of God).

Fortiter Pugnem said...

I thought the Vatcian privately condemned this, instead of publicly, just to keep people from looking into it deeper.
Fr. Peter Byrne, FSSP, gave a GREAT sermon at my church once on private revelation. I am having trouble finding it online though...
The #1 rule of private revelation is that you can take it or leave it and still be okay.
#2 If it hasn't been approved by the local bishop, there's something wrong.
#3 Until it's approved, who cares?

I am not Spartacus said...

Dear Bernonensis ..Dunno; oh, by the way, is Christmas still on the 25th this year?

Knight of Malta said...

What follows, I have to say, is my favorite Medjugorje story!

"From Vicka's diary: 'Friday 4 September, 1981. Today, we waited for our Lady at Marija's house. Marija, Ivanka, Jakov and I (Vicka) were there. We started to pray at 6:20 p.m. Our Lady immediately appeared. We asked her about the Friars and nuns from our parish. We asked about the man who saw Jesus along the road when he took the people in his car. He met a man who was covered in blood--this man was Jesus--and he (Jesus) gave him a handkerchief soaked in blood and told him to throw it into the river. Driving on further, he met a woman, it was the Blessed Virgin Mary, and she asked the driver for the blood-soaked handkerchief. The man gave her a handkerchief that belonged to him, but Our Lady asked for the blood-stained handkerchief. When the man gave her the blood-stained handkerchief, Our Lady said: 'If you hadn't given it to me, it would have been the last judgment for everyone!' Our Lady said that this was true.'"

Dan said...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry over this idiocy. This business of Our Lady appearing on cue, like a conjurer's trick, should one would think be enough to convince any rational person that this is the basest form of preternatural nonsense.

Medjugorje was thoroughly demolished as early as 1981 by the late Brother Francis, MICM, the late Scottish journalist Hamish Fraser and the French brother, Frere Michel de le Saint Trinite. Since then there have been other fine dissections of this thing. All writers pointed out the doctrinal issues, but Frere Michel's was the most thorough in that nothing escaped his notice. He exposed the machinations of the weird priests who were intially behind this, he relied on the excellent testimonies of level-headed personages who had actually been there and carefully observed what was going on, he showed how liberals like Laurentin were backing it to the hilt along with the charismatics, he exposed the outright fakery so completely that one would have to be devoid of all reason not to be concerned by these happenings. These three great minds had it pegged right at the beginning.

That there are still Catholics out there so obtuse about this, in the face of all the negative evidence, is rather disturbing.

Fortiter Pugnem said...

Dan,
When you said that about making Our Lady appear at will, I immediately thought of "The Reluctant Saint" when the priests ask St. Joseph to levitate... at least he was humble.

Brian said...

Yes this man has long become a scandal. Which raises a question: why is Ignatius Press still printing his books?

Why was he given the responsibility of editting the Catholic Catechism and the recent Teen Cathechism?

Delphina said...

I am very surprised that the Medjugorje-ites aren't here in full force defending their ludicrous apparition. They're a very well organized group of fanatics.

Isn't Ivan the one that married the Boston beauty queen and drives some fancy-shmancy expensive car and lives in luxury?

A couple of months ago, I was horrified when our pastor actually endorsed this comedy drama as a true apparition. Very irresponsible of him.

E. Michael Jones wrote a good book about it too. I do not know if it is still in print. Also, the Abbe de Nantes' group did an exhaustive study on this bogus apparition as well.

MKT said...

All the heresies aside, the first abominable fruit of Medgugorje is disobedience.

This should not be lost on the traditional Catholic community which is often derided unjustly for being disobedient.

According to canon law, the local ordinary judges the apparition as authentic or not.

The local ordinary back in the 1980s judged against the authenticity of this apparition.

The case is thus closed, period, basta, enough.

The disregard by the priest of his local ordinary and the seers - the fruit of whose lives exudes anything but holiness - is a scandal that no Catholic, much less a Cardinal, should promote.

Interestingly the French bishops in 1994, after the breakup of Yugoslavia, wrote a letter in support of the local oprdinary and called for the rejection of Medgugorje. This letter can be read in full on the Catholic online magazine "the Christian Order" which explains why canonically Medgugorje cannot be accepted by any Catholic wiothout incurring schism.

Adfero said...

Please all remember that anonymous posts will be blocked. Thanks

Adfero said...

I know the gates of Hell can never prevail on the Church, but they sure have beaten some of our princes to a bloody pulp.

How diabolic this update is.

OutsideObserver said...

Medjugorje is a terrible indictment of the state of the Catholic Church today.

This phenomenon is so blatantly and so obviously fake, and not so long ago would have been judged as such by any seminarian or novice who knew basic ascetical and mystical theology. Today we even need a special Vatican Commission to decide whether something so obviously false is indeed false!

OutsideObserver said...

The Blessed Virgin Mary 'blessing" objects...

Is she now a priest?

Is it obvious where this is headed?

J.G. Ratkaj said...

This humbug is only another tenderloin of the obnoxious excesses in the crumbling austrian church. Count Schoenborn's chameleon-like attitude to appease neo-cons here with the Medju-tripe and on the other side talking to the de facto openly protestant "pfarrerinitiative" (strong network of ultraliberal priests in Austria) with the common platitudes à la "renewing the church according to the council" will further expedite the crash of the institutional church in Austria.

Knight of Malta said...

Isn't Ivan the one that married the Boston beauty queen and drives some fancy-shmancy expensive car and lives in luxury?

Yes, he married a former Miss Massachusetts, recently sold a $650,000 condo here (possibly for something more plush, since he still resides part time here in the US, but that is conjecture), has a $1,000,000+ home/hotel in Medjugorje. And for a hefty price, you can even stay in his home/hotel! (This, of course, is slightly different than the PRAYER EXPERIENCE
with Ivan Dragicevic & Family
package they used to offer, but, fortunately, the price hasn't gone up too much!) He's known to drive both Mercedes' and BMWs, but I think his penchant is for the latter!

Knight of Malta said...

Even the "Gospa" needs a break from tens of thousands of apparitions once in a while! (here) But, not to worry, under Cardinal Schonborn, she is being conjured up again!

Adfero said...

Coincidentally, this schedule corresponds with Delta frequent flyer blackout days, so stay tuned for future hallucinations, I mean, apparitions.

Delphina said...

Knights of Malta,

That info you gave alone is enough to deep six the authencity of Medjugorje.

Check out Louis Belanger's blog for more good Medj info.

By the way, the bloody handkerchief is one of my favorites too, but not as good as the Church having gotten the birthday of Our Lady wrong for centuries! Hahaha!!

Jordanes551 said...

I am very surprised that the Medjugorje-ites aren't here in full force defending their ludicrous apparition.

Apparently they haven't noticed this blog post yet. . . . but frankly comments in support of officially disapproved apparitions that bear all the marks of fraud aren't really welcome here anyway.

Estase said...

I stopped taking Medjugorie seriously when the priest who pitched it to me, Kenneth Roberts of the Archdiocese of Dallas, was found to be a pederast.

P.K.T.P. said...

We should not be surprised by this deception. Consider all the false lights since Vatican II: charismaticism (charismoronicism) being the worst, and the Neo-Catatonical way being another. Those who reject tradition look for pyrotechnics. The great saints never sought after signs and wonders, even though God thrust them upon a chosen few. Real Catholics don't go on pilgrimage to fake apparations; rather, they wait for Rome to decide if the apparition is worthy of belief. The New Mass introduced endless variety, and this has led to endless wonders and endless folly. The cure is simple: the Traditional Latin Mass. Other traditional liturgies (Ambrosian, Byzantine) will also do.

P.K.T.P.

Diane at Te Deum Laudamus said...

Setting everything else aside, ponder this:

In the history of the Church, where do we see bishops, outside of the diocese and country where a phenomena originates, hosting visionaries when it has not yet been deemed credible at any level of the Church.

While it is under study by Cardinal Ruini's commission, is it not most prudent to, "wait and see", rather than proceed in a way that lends credibility to something not yet approved?

It's not only a slap to the face of the bishop of Mostar, but to the entire bishops conferences of the former Yugoslavia. Has Cardinal Schonborn, or any other bishop engaging in this kind of thing, pondered how it looks when they host visionaries in their cathedrals all the while no bishop in the former Yugoslavia permits them to do this on Church property? That has been protocol for generations.

This is nothing more than "approval" based on a wave of enthusiasm.

So much for "collegiality".