Rorate Caeli

Cardinal Koch on the Pope's intentions regarding the liturgy

(Previous posts on Cardinal Koch's various statements on the 'Reform of the Reform' can be found here and here.)

From the Sancrucensis blog (with a slight correction):

What follows is a quick translation of a Vatican Radio report. Cardinal Koch’s words are given a special edge by the fact that he was speaking at the theological faculty of the University of Freiburg, a stronghold of “progressive” theology: 

Allowing the Old Latin Mass is just “a first step” according to Kurt Cardinal Koch, an official of the Roman Curia. The time is however not yet ripe for the next steps Koch said on the Weekend in Freiburg. Liturgical questions are overshadowed by ideology especially in Germany. Rome will only be able to act further when Catholics show more readiness to think about a new liturgical reform “for the good of the Church.” The Cardinal spoke at a conference on the theology of Joseph Ratzinger, which also considered Ratzinger’s pontificate as Pope Benedict XVI. In July 2007 Pope Benedict decreed that Tridentine Rite Masses according to the Missal of 1962 may once again be celebrated world wide. The Missal of 1970 is however still the “normal form” of the Eucharistic Celebration in the Roman Church. Koch is the President of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He tried to refute the charge that Pope Benedict is going against the Council [i.e. Vatican II] in liturgical questions: “the Pope suffers from this accusation.” On the contrary, the Holy Father’s intention is rather to implement conciliar teachings on the liturgy which have been ignored up till now. Present day liturgical practice does not always have any real basis in the Council. For example, celebration versus populum was never mandated by the Council, says the Cardinal. A renewal of the form of divine worship is necessary for the interior renewal of the Church: “Since the crisis of the Church today is above all a crisis of the liturgy, it is necessary to begin the renewal of the Church today with a renewal of the Liturgy.

20 comments:

GQ Rep said...

I don't know if it is the experience in many other USA parishes, but in mine, the liturgy is still governed by 2 elderly lay clothes nuns iun their very late 60's or early 70's.
Only reluctantly did they allow for a crucifix to be used as the processional cross...rather than the plain, Protestant style cross without the Corpus they were so fond of.
Only recently have the mid-1960's style banners disappeared from the area around the altar,and only recently have "Guitar Masses" finally died out at our parish.

But we still have these two oldnuns and a handful of equally elderly laywomen acting as if they run the show. They still discourage people from genuflecting when entering or leaving the pew, still have tons of altar girls,and women on the altar, and still discourage Communion recieved on the tongue.

The pastor is a "conservative" who returned last year to using the Confessionals rather than the "Reconcilliation Room" built in the early 1970's! The 2 nuns were outraged.

Now their is a fight brewing because the pastor has restored the tabranacle, began using the altar bells again, and incense.

There are rumors that their Order, the Sisters of St.Joseph,are withdrawing their aged Sisters from several schools and parish ministries in our Archdiocese.

Many of us in the parish hope the 2 nuns who run the Church and the 2 others who conduct their own special "ministries" in the parish will go too.

Perhaps a return to real Catholicism, either that truely invisioned by Vatican II (which isn't what we got), or the pre-Vatican II Church will take more than a generation to return. It won't be a quick fix...unfortunatly.

Renjith Leen said...

Such heretical "nuns" are the bane of the Roman Catholic Church. Had there been an active inquisition today, these rabidly feminist Wiccan nuns would have been burnt at the stake.

Anil Wang said...

GQ Rep, it was never that bad where I live, but you're right about the difficulty. Keep in mind that Moses wandered in the desert for 40 years and although aided by God, Joshua's reclaiming of God's promises wasn't exactly easy or blood free, even with God's aid. Co-incidentally, the time of Moses corresponded in the post-Vatican II era with Pope John Paul II who lead a rebellious Church and the time of Joshua corresponds to Pope Benedict XIV who is trying to implement Vatican II properly and restore the TLM which was never abolished by Vatican II.

We must press on and continue to fight and trust in God since ultimately he is in charge.

Joe B said...

"For example, celebration versus populum was never mandated by the Council, says the Cardinal."

The defense is 'don't blame the pope, the council didn't approve it'? What's Peter, chopped liver?

Since nothing specific was mandated by the council concerning liturgy, where did the Novus Ordo come from?
Oh, that would be a pope, Paul VI. But don't blame him because the council didn't mandate the Novus Ordo.

Well, the popes approved quite a few shameful liturgical practices. I'm not impressed with this defense - throwing previous popes under the bus for doing things the council didn't mandate while this pope just got through approving the NCW mess.

This is why this generation must die off before we can return to the practice of the faith. In the meantime, just let SSPX do the Lord's work in peace, Holy Father. Don't ask them to sign up to your council, which didn't approve anything but ruined everything.

Tradical said...

IMO: Once again it appears that they're going to tinker with what isn't broken (Tridentine Mass) and leave alone what is (Novus Ordo).

A particularly trying week on a number of fronts.
P^3

P.K.T.P. said...

Moraglia is now Patriarch of Venice. Predictions here were correct. I wonder if Rorare Cœli will start publishing 'negative comments' again?

P.K.T.P.

PEH said...

“Since the crisis of the Church today is above all a crisis of the liturgy, it is necessary to begin the renewal of the Church today with a renewal of the Liturgy."

Renewal of which Liturgy - that of Paul VI or that of St. Pius V? That is the question. How can one Pope override the explicit instructions of his predecessor? And, as one holy traditional priest once told me - it's more than just the Mass; it's the entire catechesis proposed by the Church.

Anil Wang said...

Joe B said..."What's Peter, chopped liver?"

Yes actually. Weak Popes conceding to a disobedient flock is nothing new. Look no further than Matthew 19:8 ( He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.) for an example given by Jesus.

Look at the history of all liturgical abuse. It started with disobedience and limited concession which expanded over time as more people became disobedient. Look at the history of many parishes and Catholic institutions which gave input to lay committees. Over time, the Magesterium was increasingly marginalized and even if an orthodox priest or bishop takes over, it is very difficult to claw back control from the laity (see the above Nun example). If you think that all Popes are strong and virtuous and all Catholic Priests are faithful, you've mistaken the Donatist Church for the Catholic Church.

Fortunately modernism feeds on modernism. What was "cool" yesterday is an embarassment to today's "cool" crowd. A liturgical Church can never "keep up" and no amount of "creativity" such as the Swedish Lutheran Techno Hip Hop "masses" can compete with the secular world, since the secular world has committed itself to modernity and "being cool".

Modernist parishes will die. They just can't compete. Only parishes that are distinct from the world, will survive since they offer something the secular modernist world cannot. TLM, Eastern Rite masses, and likely properly done NO parishes will be the only things standing in 100 years.

WRT NCW, please look at what was actually approved was just extra-liturgical prayers. Nothing more. The NCW still need to submit to a NO (or TLM) liturgy the same as every else.

IMO, Cardinal Kosh is correct. Rolling back some of the concessions such as communion in the hand will do a great deal to bringing the NO back to what it was supposed to be. The time is right now that the corrected translation is out and people have mostly adjusted to it.

IMO, Communion on the tongue will naturally lead to altar rails (to "speed up traffic"), and improved reverence will also lead to ad orientum celebrations and the retiring of parishes that like bingo halls.

Aged parent said...

Since I have no way of contacting "PKTP" other than the comments box I hope those at RORATE would kindly post this comment, the intention of which is to let PKTP know that his comments and observations would be very welcome at my blog as well.

His observations are often quite stimulating and informative and should he desire to offer remarks (or even contribute a short piece!) at my blog I want him to know they would be most welcome.

He can click on my "name" and be directed to the proper place.

And, as always, I thank RORATE for their excellent articles and analysis.

Ecclesia Militans said...

On his feast day let us remember the prophecy of St. John Bosco from 1862 (note the year):

"There will be an Ecumenical Council in the next century, after which there will be chaos in the Church."

(http://virginmarywindow.com/st-john-bosco)

As all who dare to prophesize on the actual year of the Great Chastisement, St. John Bosco placed it too early, one year before 2000.
This is because God chooses to postpone the Chastisement so that more souls can be saved.
(e.g. Rev 6:10-12)

Joseph K. said...

Wow... I know that Cardinals say things sometimes to "posture" discussion within the Church, but I sure hope this is closer to reality than mere rhetoric.

Tom said...

Kurt Cardinal Koch said: "Rome will only be able to act further when Catholics show more readiness to think about a new liturgical reform “for the good of the Church."

If the Cardinal referred to Catholics in the pews, then I believe that we'll have to wait forever for Rome to act.

It is my experience/belief that the majority of Catholics lack the interest in liturgical battles that have been waged by Traditionalists, liberals and neo-cons.

Traditionalists, liberals and neo-cons are "extreme" in that they are determined to control liturgical matters within the Church.

Conversely, the majority of Catholics (who are determined each Sunday to assist at Mass) simply arrive at Mass and accept that which is presented to them.

If Mass were offered ad orientem, then the majority of worshippers would simply accept said practice.

If the Latin Church banned Communion in the hand, then the majority of Catholics (who assist at Sunday Mass regularly) would accept said decision.

I don't believe that the majority of Catholics worrying about liturgical reform.

I recall the battle raged, particularly by liberals, in regard to the new translation of the Novus Ordo.

Liberals declared that the new translation would shake the Faithful's liturgical sensibilities.

Liberals failed to grasp the reality that the majority of Catholics who assist regularly at Mass would accept that which the Church had mandated.

I disagree with the Cardinal's notion that "Rome will only be able to act further when Catholics show more readiness to think about a new liturgical reform “for the good of the Church."

Tom

GQ Rep said...

"Moraglia is now Patriarch of Venice. Predictions here were correct. I wonder if Rorare Cœli will start publishing 'negative comments' again?"

P.K.T.P.

Is he a bad pick for Venice? I can speak/read Italian, and what I;ve gathered from La Stampa on Line, Corriere della Sera etc, is that he's someone to the right of Pope Benedict liturgically....but also interested in pastoral initiatives. It all the Italian newspapers I've read, it's obvious they don't like him in that he labeled "traditionalisti", or the name of the great Cardinal Siri is mentioned negatively.

Ivan K said...

@Tom,

According to a Catholic Herald poll 50% of Mass-going Catholics in England and Wales would attend the EF regularly if it was available; a similar poll had it at around 44% for German Catholics. Maybe 'ordinary' Mass-goers are a little more interested in tradition than we suspect.

Kathy said...

GQ Rep: We have a sort of reverse scenario to yours. Our priest retired one year ago, age 85. He spoke Latin fluently, had an EF Mass monthly, and when he came here 20 years ago, first thing he did was throw out the felt banners, the ugly tabernacle, and all that stuff, restoring the beauty of the church. All thru these years, he was loved and respected except for about 6 women (all in 70's), who constantly went against him (and against Church teaching). Frankly, they are heretics, most are converts, none are devout. Well, in the one year since this great priest (the last of his breed?) retired, a very arrogant priest has stepped in who is lazy and confused and so happy to let the 70;s set take over. In one year the parish has been destroyed. These SIX WOMEN ALONE determine all the music, rubrics, liturgy, etc. They dictate to the priest, and he obeys! Communion, once reverent and totally silent, is now blasted with rock and Dan Schutte music. The other 95% of parishioners, as usually happens, just passively follow along. I have left.

GQ Rep said...

Kathy:

Thank you! I know the core of your response to my post wasn't neant to be funny, but I laughted out loud, and my younger brother Shiru came running to see what was so hysterical. It was this:

"The other 95% of parishioners, as usually happens, just passively follow along."

I instantly pictured a woman in our parish in her early 60's who every Sunday tries to get all 90-100 of us to sing along to this Protestant music or contemporary junk she picks for Mass. She stands there flapping her arms, the organ swells in anticipation...and about 7-8 people (out of maybe 100) joins in singing. Everyone else justs stands or sits "passively following along".
Some have the totally bored "I just want to be anywhere but here" look on their faces.
It's sad.....but also hilarious to watch!

Dave said...

Dear Guys I don't think we need to rush the Pope or the Holy See about the "reform of the reform". It has always been so that the Holy See has its own time of implementing changes, slow and almost immobile at times but nonetheless moving. But one thing is for sure, thanks to SSPX and Una Voce and rest of the Traditional Community we are able to secure the survival of "true" Catholic Tradition. Be thankful that people now in Rome are beginning to see and understand that there is indeed a crisis in the Church and that this crisis starts from the liturgy is celebrated.

To PKTP I don't see anything good about giving negative comments. Even if our own mother is a whore would we not get hurt if someone lambasted her in public? Same thing about giving comments. We may have the right and liberty say things others may not like to her but we ought to give others also whom we don't want the same basic respect and decency we want others to give us.

Tom said...

"According to a Catholic Herald poll 50% of Mass-going Catholics in England and Wales would attend the EF regularly if it was available; a similar poll had it at around 44% for German Catholics. Maybe 'ordinary' Mass-goers are a little more interested in tradition than we suspect."

I don't think so.

Tom

GQ Rep said...

"According to a Catholic Herald poll 50% of Mass-going Catholics in England and Wales would attend the EF regularly if it was available; a similar poll had it at around 44% for German Catholics. Maybe 'ordinary' Mass-goers are a little more interested in tradition than we suspect."

I don't think so.

Tom"

I do. And bringing back the Tridentine Latin Mass in every parish couldn't hurt....considering that for the most part, only 14% of any given parish in the USA goes to Mass every Sunday....even though that's a whole heck of a lot better than the average attendance in Episcopalian (2%) and Presbyterian (6%) churches in the USA

Donald Nelson said...

I have recently found an article which appeareared in a University of Dallas newspaper in 1966 protesting the renovation of the University Chapel. It said that the Vatican Council did not call for the Mass to be celebrated on something that looked like a picnic
table. The Vatican Council documents never called for the priest to face the people either, You don't have to read the article
Go to the Vatican Council documents and find out!