Rorate Caeli

Is there a way of putting "The Way" back into the box?


The field of liturgical experimentation has not ceased to amaze faithful Catholics since the days of the fateful Council, but few have been as bold, as consistent and as resilient as those novelties promoted by the Neocatechumenal Way.

Earlier this year, as it is well remembered, the Holy See granted approval to certain symbolic events that mark the various "steps" in the "path" presented by that movement as (as its name indicates) a new sort of catechumenate. At the time, we made quite clear that, regardless of what the curial document said, the approval would be understood by the Church at large, and by the Neocatechumenal Way in particular, as a wholesale allowance of all its bizarre liturgical practices.

Kiko Argüello, the founder of the movement, made his opinion quite clear at the time, and also recently in his yearly Lent Announcement:

“This year, with great surprise, following the approval of the Catechetical Directory, also the celebrations were approved."
As a former member of the "Way" says in a letter to Messa in Latino published today, Argüello clearly does not distinguish between the non-liturgical and the liturgical ceremonies; for the "Way", the Vatican seal of approval covered it all. This is, of course, what we had said at the time (Jan. 20, 2012 - The New Liturgical Way) and what Argüello himself said three days later (Jan. 23, 2012).

As another sign that the "Way" and its leaders consider their liturgical rites fully approved is the report by Sandro Magister, also published today, that Pope Benedict XVI wants their liturgical mess sorted out because he was also a victim of those who push for the Way inside the Vatican halls, particularly its strongest Spanish supporter(s). This would not have happened if some decision makers in the Apostolic Palace had been reading Rorate in the weeks and days prior to the great meeting with the Kikos, on Jan. 20...

What had happened was that the pontifical council for the laity headed by Cardinal Stanislaw Rylko had prepared the text for a degree of blanket approval of all the liturgical and extra-liturgical celebrations of the Neocatechumenal Way, to be made public the January 20 on the occasion of a meeting scheduled between the pope and the Way.

The decree was redacted according to the guidelines of the congregation for divine worship, headed by Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera. The founders and leaders of the Way, Francisco "Kiko" Argüello and Carmen Hernández, were told about it and joyfully told their followers about the imminent approval.

All unbeknownst to the pope.

Benedict XVI found out about the text of the decree a few days before the meeting on January 20.

He found it illogical and mistaken. He ordered that it be scrapped and rewritten according to his guidelines.

In fact, the decree that was made public on January 20 limited itself to approving the extra-liturgical ceremonies that mark the catechetical stages of the Way.

In his speech, the pope stressed that only these had been authorized. While with regard to the Mass, he gave the Neocatechumenals a genuine lecture – almost an ultimatum – on how to celebrate it in full fidelity to the liturgical norms and in practical communion with the Church.

During those same days, Benedict XVI received in audience the archbishop of Berlin, Rainer Maria Woelki, a trusted confrere whom he would soon make a cardinal. Among other things, Woelki talked to him about the difficulties that the Neocatechumenals were creating in his diocese with their separate Masses on Saturday evening, officiated by about thirty member priests.

The pope asked Woelki to give him a survey of the matter in writing. On January 31, Woelki sent him a letter with more detailed information.

A few days later, on February 11, the pope forwarded a copy of this letter to the congregation for the doctrine of the faith, together with a request to examine as soon as possible this question that "concerns not only the archdiocese of Berlin."

The examining commission headed by the congregation for the doctrine of the faith would have to include, according to the pope's guidelines, two other Vatican dicasteries: the congregation for divine worship and the discipline of the sacraments, and the pontifical council for the laity.

And so it was. On March 26, in the Palazzo del Sant'Uffizio, under the presidency of the secretary of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith, Archbishop Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, a Jesuit, a meeting for an initial examination of the question was held with the secretaries of the other two dicasteries – for divine worship Archbishop Augustine J. Di Noia, a Dominican, and for the laity Bishop Josef Clemens – and with four experts designated by them. An absent fifth expert, Dom Cassiano Folsom, prior of the monastery of Saint Benedict in Norcia, sent his assessment in writing.

All of the judgments expressed were critical of the Masses of the Neocatechumenals. Also very severe was the one that the congregation for the doctrine of the faith had asked, before the meeting, of the theologian and newly created cardinal Karl J. Becker, Jesuit, professor emeritus at the Pontifical Gregorian University and an adviser to the dicastery.

The dossier provided for the meeting by the congregation for the doctrine of the faith included the pope's letter of February 11, Cardinal Woelki's letter to the pope in the original German and in English, the assessment of Cardinal Becker, and a guide for the discussion that explicitly brought into question the conformity to the liturgical teaching and practice of the Catholic Church of article 13 § 2 of the statutes of the Neocatechumenals, the one in which they justify their separate Masses on Saturday evening.

In reality, the danger feared by Benedict XVI and by many bishops – as demonstrated by the many complaints that have been made to the Vatican – is that the particular ways in which the Neocatechumenal communities all over the world celebrate their Masses may introduce into the Latin liturgy a new de facto "rite" artificially composed by the founders of the Way, foreign to the liturgical tradition, full of doctrinal ambiguities and a source of division in the community of the faithful.

To the commission he had set up, the pope entrusted the task of verifying the validity of these fears. In view of decisions to be made.

The judgments elaborated by the commission will be examined in an upcoming plenary meeting of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith, on a Wednesday – a "feria quarta" – in the second half of April.

44 comments:

Ferraiuolo said...

It just takes one roam on that news "Romereports" to realise how much they really don't care about anything that is not from the "Way".

When it comes to coverage of the SSPX? They side with its enemies, when it comes to the approval of "the Way"? They dedicate hours to celebrate it and brag on about how they are the Church.

It is clear what their agenda is.

Timothy Mulligan said...

St. Viincent of Lerins, pray for us.

Igumen Gregory said...

I suppose when will have to wait for a major and embarrassing scandal to take place before any effective measure is taken with this crowd.

Carol said...

It is hypocritical of the Pope to complain about the introduction of "a new de facto "rite" artificially composed by the founders of the Way, foreign to the liturgical tradition, full of doctrinal ambiguities and a source of division in the community of the faithful". After all, the very novus ordo he celebrates is, according to his own estimation, a "fabricated liturgy... a banal on-the-spot product" (i.e. artificially composed and foreign to the liturgical tradition), and has been a source of continuing division among the faithful. These were the words that he wrote in 1992 in the Preface to Mgr Klaus Gamber's book, "The Reform of the Roman Liturgy".

The Pope’s inconsistent and incoherent position on this issue underscores the bankruptcy of the overall liturgical reform pushed by his predecessors since Vatican II. If only they had listened to the advice of Cardinal Ottavianai issued in 1969:

“To abandon a liturgical tradition which for four centuries was both the sign and pledge of unity of worship (and to replace it with another which cannot but be a sign of division by virtue of the countless liberties implicitly authorized, and which teems with insinuations or manifest errors against the integrity of the Catholic religion) is, we feel in conscience bound to proclaim, an incalculable error.”

Mentis said...

"...the discussion that explicitly brought into question the conformity to the liturgical teaching and practice of the Catholic Church of article 13 § 2 of the statutes of the Neocatechumenals, the one in which they justify their separate Masses on Saturday evening."

Statutes that, in the first place, were approved by the Pontifical Council for the Laity in the name of Pope Benedict XVI

Catholic Mission said...

Ferraiulo

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2012
There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html

Shane said...

John Paul II's promotion of sects and cults in the Church ("new ecclesial movements") is a compelling reason (one of many!) why he should never, ever be canonized.

Manfred said...

Some thirty years ago I explored being a co-operator with Opus Dei and I was in a group which went to N.Y.C. to see/hear the bishop who was the prelate for Opus Dei worldwide. At the question/answer period the members addressed the bishop as "Holy Father". I left and never returned. P.S. I believe a neurologist would explain it depends on the "wiring" of some people's brains.

Chris B. said...

The Holy Father need not only go to the NCW to find heretics, but to some of the Church's pseudo "conservative" Cardinals as well.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/adam-and-eve-thats-just-mythology-says-pell/story-e6frg6nf-1226322379822


http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/dawkins-and-pell-battle-it-out-in-one-hell-of-a-debate-20120410-1wlkg.html

P.K.T.P. said...

The question becomes not whether or not Rome will recognise the S.S.P.X but whether, or not, the S.S.P.X will recognise this Rome and this curia as Catholic. As the Neo-Catatonical Way is clearly not Catholic, we wonder if the curia which 'celebrates' it can be Catholic.

As for Benedict XVI, he would seem to be 'liturgically conservative', at least in his personal preferences. But where is he theologically?

P.K.T.P.

McCormack said...

I have the perfect way for the Neocatechumenal Way - it's right out the door, with a swift kick up the backside.

They're welcome back when they've sorted their mess out.

eoin said...

I think they will make the perfect ordinariate for the Indult Masses of Paul VI when the restoration comes. I'm officially forming the Coalition Eclessia Way.

Enoch said...

Where is the proof that the Pope actually found the text of the original decree to be illogical and mistaken and ordered it to be scrapped and re-written, as has been stated?

Chris Gillibrand said...

Catholic Church Conservation: Neo-Catechumenal Way: lots of baleful images and background reading here.

Francis said...

The way I see it is the Pope could do three things to not only bring tradition back to the Church but let members of the Curia and others inside and outside of the Church that he is still in charge.

(1) Get rid of, through publicly excommunicating the heretical members of the NCW, the Austrian "priests" and if necessary removing their like minded leader Christoph Schonborn from his position as Archbishop of Vienna.

(2) "Regularizing" the FSSPX.

(3) Saying a Traditional Latin Mass at St. John Lateran or at St. Peters.

Of course there's alot of other things that need to be done to cleanse the Church of Christ from the modernism, relativism and indifferentism promoted at Vatican II but these three things would be a step in the right direction.

P.K.T.P. said...

Actually, I'm not all that offended by this picture because I can't tell what on earth it's about. If the moderators had not contextualised it for us, I'd never guess that it was meant to be a Catholic liturgy of some kind. Are those large hosts on golden plates, for instance? They look about the size of small pizzas. Why are they there?

The one thing that does infuriate and which I do understand is the guitarists in one corner of the picture. Now *that* is scary. Let me guess, Kiko found evidence that Jesus played the guitar in the first century.

P.K.T.P.

Enoch said...

Thank you Gillibrand, but there's no evidence or proof, from your website, that what has been presented by Sando Magister with regards to the Pope finding the original decree to be illogical and mistaken and that he ordered it to be scrapped and re-written. I want to see proof that this is completely true. Hopefully someone can provide proof that it's true. If not, then there's a problem.

I'm no fan of The Way, but I am a fan of truth and honesty in reporting. We are Catholics; we are supposed to be honest in all that we do and say.

P.K.T.P. said...

Dear Francis:

Your suggestions are good but some are unrealistic (but I'm sure that you were aware of that when you wrote them. Still, dreaming can be good for the soul in times like these.)

The problem right now is that "Summorum Pontificum" has become a dead letter, largely because the P.C.E.D. is too busy planning a wreckovation of the 1962 Missal to enforce it. There are only so many hours in the day, you know, and these curialists are exhausted by the time they have intruded another NewMass preface in the evening.

Regularising the S.S.P.X would be good in principle but I now realise that it would not be beneficial at this particular time. The problem is that NewChurch is too much infected with the spirit of Modernism right now. Regularisation should never mean affiliation with beer garden Masses; it should never mean association with parish council members who live in homo 'partnerships'; it should never ever mean association with an uncorrected Fr. Raymond Gravel, who promotes abortion on television and goes unpunished. Regularisation into that sort of Rome would amount to a poisoning. Rome needs to get her act together first.

What may be possible right now is something simpler and yet moving in the right direction: the Pope could formally and officially and publicly recognise that the Society is Catholic and that all its Sacraments are both valid and licit.

This will not be enough, just as S.P. has not been enough. I suggest that His Holiness command that there must be *at least* one every-Sunday T.L.M. offered in each diocese. I would make exception for dioceses having fewer than 10,000 subjects and those served by fewer than, say, fifteen priests. Also exempt would be missionary 'dioceses', such as prefectures and vicariates apostolic. Even if this mean, in most places, one Mass attended by only the celebrant and one server, it would be a proper gesture, since the T.L.M. is a priceless liturgical gift for all. Do not monks and did not chantry priests so offer the Mass?

There should also be an international particular church for the Ecclesia Dei religious societies, directly under the Pope and completely independent of these pastoral wolves, our local bishops.

As for the Neo-Catatonics and the Charismoronics, let them have their fun. They are but small groups of nutters among a much larger society of the sick.

P.K.T.P.

Catholic Mission said...

P.K.T.P/Ferraiulo

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2012
NEWSPAPER ADVERTISEMENT : APPEAL ON THE SSPX ISSUE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/newspaper-advertisement-appeal-on-sspx.html

Ferraiuolo said...

Catholic Mission,

Just look at what Gillibrand posted and tell me in sincerity that what the SSPX does is worthy of ecclesiastical rupture. We live in extraordinary times and should pray for the Church, but I honestly don't think that the SSPX is in any way being treated as nicely as the Neocatechumenal Way is. Lets not even talk about how the "Way" actually should be treated for all its liturgical novelties and wretched Eucharistic abuses...

Machado said...

Dear friends, please pray for Brazil today. Our Supreme Court is analyzing right now the possibility of validating the abortion of anencephalic babies.

Please, pray for Our Lady of Aparecida.

Sorry for the off-topic, moderators.

Garrett said...

This was largely a mess of the Pope's own making. I am quite sure that the NCW *cannot* be put back into a box, and trying to do so at this point is going to make for a very, very unappetizing scenario.

Even the fact that the heads of the three Vatican congregations/dicasteries must clean up this mess and expend their valuable time trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together again cries out to God for justice.

It would be comically pathetic if it weren't concerning the gravest and most serious of issues.

Ivan K said...

The Neocat liturgy isn't really much worse that the typical Novus Ordo. It's certainly not worse than the Novus Ordo in my local parish, here in the American midwest. We have 'praise and worship' music, a wooden cube on wheels for an altar, no sacred images or statues, a church that looks like a barn, etc. etc. Consequently, most people have a protestant understanding of the faith and the Mass. This parish is as likely to reconnect with Catholicism as is the local Baptist congregation.

Francis said...

Dear P.K.T.P.,

Yes, I knew when I wrote these suggestions that the present Holy Father most likely wouldn't do these things. Naivety isn't one of my faults. My point was that little things, slowly and one at a time will need to be done to restore tradition because as you well know it will not be done all at once as the FSSPX and many other trads including myself want it to. All we can do is pray, and put it into Our Lady's hands.

Anil Wang said...

Carol, it's not hypocritical.

Have a look at the 1965 Missal that was created in response to Vatican II:
http://www.coreyzelinski.8m.com/1965_Mass/

This is what Vatican II intended, and IMO could be reintroduced at any time, since it isn't so foreign to most Catholics today. The key problem with NO is not the 1969 missal, the key problem are the post Vatican II liturgical innovations such as facing the people or communion in the hand or not kneeling or parishes that look more like multi-use warehouses than places to worship. If you bring back the 1965 missal or even completely returned to TLM and kept these innovations, you would still be left with a fabricated liturgy. You would win the battle but lose the war.

This is why the Pope is keeping his focus on these aspects and why the NCW corruptions to the liturgy must be stopped.

Prof. Basto said...

Interesting.

But why wasn't the january 20th decree more explicit with regard to the fact that approval of the liturgical rites was not included and that the Masses using the unnaproved rites should not continue pending a final decision on them?

The Holy See left room for discussion unnecessarily, when old fashioned commands and prohibitions are needed. In the language of old. Strictly enjoining.

This NeoCat "movement" is the worst cult and should be treated with extreme caution.

Mike said...

Manfred,

Members of Opus Dei call their Prelate "the Father, or, "Father".

You might check out their official website to see how much they revere the Pope. There is no confusion, which you seem to imply, that their Prelate is some sort of unofficial Pope.

I'm not saying you didn't witness what you say you saw 30 years ago, but perhaps there is a less sinister explanation...

Matthew said...

Anil Wang said:

"The key problem with NO is not the 1969 missal"

I must respectfully and heartily disagree. While I certainly recognize that "versus populum" and Communion in the hand are grave abuses and not Catholic, it is an oversimplification (at least) to say that these are that much more important than the actual texts. I am sure you are familiar with the Ottaviani Intervention. The Offertory is destroyed. The consecration formula for the Chalice is altered. EP II is glaring for what it omits. EP III can be read with a Protestant notion of sacrifice. The sacrificial priesthood is downplayed by the texts by merging the Confiteors (if it is even used!) and the Communion of the priest (necessary for the sacrifice) with that of the laity (inconsequential to the sacrifice). I am sure you are familiar with the destruction and "revision" of the Propers. There is an intercession on Good Friday for religious freedom. So on and so forth.

If there were not serious problems with the text itself, then why not just take the Fr. Z route and promote Latin NO's ad orientem with the smells and bells, sacred music, etc. Heck, you can even licitly use the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and the Last Gospel with the novus ordo, as they are before and after Mass itself, respectively.

I am not intending to needlessly parse semantics, but the text of the N.O. is key just as much as versus populum, Communion in the hand, and women in the sanctuary are.

Ad Altare Dei said...

Anil,


I've heard this rhetoric before, if only the documents were interpreted properly there would be no confusion, the problem is not with the Missal, etc. As each day passes I seem to have more trouble with these statements. Of course the problem is in the new missal itself, how can it not be? Even when it is celebrated "properly" (i.e. with Latin, Gregorian chant, smells and bells, no extraordinary ministers, fine vestments, oriented, kneeling for Communion whilst receiving on the tongue, etc, etc) there is still a substantial problem in that the text of the Missal itself is missing what is in the traditional Missal for the Roman Rite which is a more explicit expression of the Catholic faith. That being said, if every parish in the world celebrated the Novus Ordo in the manner described I would have less of a problem with it. The root of the problem lays not with the implementation of the New Rite of Mass (albeit the liberal interpretations have not helped), rather, it lays within the Missal itself.

Happy Easter to the readers and bloggers of Rorate Caeli!

Anil Wang said...

Matthew,

I grant everything you say, but I still don't think that the NO is the heart of the issue. EP II and EP III could be done away with at a stroke of a pen tomorrow and few people would notice. Other changes would require another Roman Missal update, but would be less disruptive than the current revision, since they only involve the parts of the priests.

As stated, if you celebrated the 1965 missal, the way the NO is currently celebrated in most parishes, I honestly don't believe that there would be more of an uproar than the corrected translation of the 2011 NO missal. I don't think even the most liberal Catholic would leave the Church if that's all that happened.

But if you removed the post 1969 innovations and mandate that Church buildings actually look like Churches (architecture, crosses, statues/icons, etc), there would be blood on the streets.

To me, this is the real problem. The first is easy to fix, the latter is much harder.

I am not Spartacus said...

It must be, at least partially, honestly confessed that in Kiko's Cult a certain continuity with tradition, in varying degrees of intensity, and, yes, even probable propensity, and which, admittedly, there exists what some may identify as a somewhat inventively tentative expression, must be, nevertheless, and in a spirit of cordiality completley free of both cordite and mordantly mutual recriminations and fulminations from certain far-right polemicists, be understood of admitting varying degrees of oblique, and even, sleek, points of creative confusion, and, perhaps even intellectual contusions, due to the vagaries of linguistic difficulties and differences and problems of intercontinental and even specifically spatial and spacial communication amidst climate change and sun spots, etc etc, subsists, and, insofar as it does, one must be patient while these understandable difficulties of that which does not readily admit of strong ties, but remain suspect of white lies, to the past must be identified and subtly reinterpreted mutatis mutandis, in an ipso facto parri passu atmosphere of respect and mutual charity – like that peaceful life- giving and life-taking that, since Creation itself , has existed twixt the Manatee and the Mangrove leaf - in this most fragile of Springs currently being experienced in this civilisation of love and ecumenism et in saecula saeculorum.

Peter M said...

Matthew, don't forget the abolition of sacred silence! ... that allows the idea that the EPs are read to the people (especially if the priest is turned towards the people and uses the vernacular) - as if dealing with the narration of a story, not the carrying out of an act by the priest - or that it is necessary for the congregation to hear the prayer (or that it is necessary to have a congregation present), or that there is a variegated concelebration priest/laypeople etc.
Btw, the "priest speaking to a wall", could never be the Mass of Ages, it's the NO celebrated ad orientem with the EP in a loud voice.

Long-Skirts said...

I am not Sparticus said:

"...like that peaceful life- giving and life-taking that, since Creation itself , has existed twixt the Manatee and the Mangrove leaf - in this most fragile of Springs currently being experienced in this civilisation of love and ecumenism et in saecula saeculorum."

What??!! There was not one mention of AUTHENTIC!!!!! ;-)

Matthew said...

Anil Wang,

Thank you for a thoughtful response!

I think you are generally correct that eliminating EP II & III or generally imposing the 1965 Order of Mass instead of the Novus Ordo would cause less general uproar than insisting upon proper music, ad orientem, Communion kneeling on the tongue, and Churches looking as Churches ought.

For what it is worth, I still think there would be some "issues" - and moreso than with the new-new-new translation.

I would want to emphasize though that both the Missal itself and the other issues upon which you touched are of high importance, even though altering the one might be easier than altering the other.

Peter,

An important point indeed with regards to the Canon. Bring back the Silent Canon!!

Tom said...

"Even when it is celebrated "properly..."

A Mass that includes Communion in the hand, altar girls, any one of a number of EPs, guitars, pianos, drums, versus populum, non-Catholic readers...on and on...is in accord with liturgical practices approved by the Apostolic See.

The Holy Father's recent Mexican-flavored and Cuban-flavored Masses were "celebrated properly."

On December 12, 2011, His Holiness "celebrated properly" a Mass for the People of Latin America.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1104859.htm

Regarding said Mass, Catholic News Service reported the following:

"The Mass was celebrated in Spanish, Portuguese and Latin with several musical pieces -- including the Kyrie and Gloria -- drawn from the "Misa Criolla," a 1964 composition in Spanish that includes elements of Latin American folk music.

"Latin American musicians sang and played traditional instruments such as the bombo drum, flute, guitars and various percussion instruments like goat nails."

The Roman Liturgy, which is in shambles, may be "celebrated properly" in ways that shatter Tradition...all approved by Rome.

Tom

GQ Rep said...

I hope that thi s is finally the first nail in the coffin of the Neocats and their improv liturgies.

I hope Benedict XVI stands up against some of his own Cardinals and supresses "The Way" outright!

Ad Altare Dei said...

Of course the Novus Ordo is at the heart of the issue, it's been at the heart of the issue for the last forty years. In 1969 Archbishop Bugnini (the chief architect of the Novus Ordo said this in the Osservatore Romano: "We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants." Bishop Fellay makes a good point in one of his interviews where he says the way in which the novelties of Vatican II have been introduced is through the Mass. Catholic doctrine, either explicitly or implicitly, revolves around the Sacred Liturgy. You strip the liturgy of those distinct ceremonies which make it explicitly and undoubtedly Catholic will eventually erode the faith of believers. While I would be more satisfied with the 1965 Missal, it is still a substantial change in it's ceremonies from the 1962 Missal and its previous version. Some may think of the shortened prayers at the foot of the altar, the omission of the last Gospel, etc as minor but remember what Bl. Pius IX said when it was suggested that he introduce St. Joseph into the Canon of the Mass: "I am only the pope. What power have I to touch the Canon?" Not that this is in anyway insulting to St. Joseph, however, we can see how much of an issue it was to touch the sacred Canon of the Mass (by inserting one more Saint into the communicantes), what would the Popes of old say if they were asked to change the entire Mass by a drastic degree? What would their reaction be to see these numerous prayers deleted, the sacred rites watered down, and the entire order of the Mass changed beyond recognition? The Mass is not just a small issue.

Gratias said...

P.KT.P. makes an excellent point: "I suggest that His Holiness command that there must be *at least* one every-Sunday T.L.M. offered in each diocese." This suggestion would go a long way to keep the One Catholic and Apostolic Church Holy.

As for the Kiko Mass we will have to live with the big tent approach, for we are included too.

Freddie said...

"EP II and EP III could be done away with at a stroke of a pen tomorrow and few people would notice"

Oh, really? These EP's are what the vast majority of priests offering the Novus Ordo use.

authoressaurus said...

Let "The Way" be ANATHEMA. The SSPX looks more and more like the true repository of the Faith.

Lynda said...

It is horrifying that any group of Catholics was allowed to play around with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in this way for their own satisfaction. It is clearly not in conformity with reverence for God or obedience to His Church.

authoressaurus said...

Mike and Manfred, the head of each Oratory of St. Philip Neri is referred to from venerable tradition as "The Father", and St. Philip, in common with all saintly founders, is referred to as "our holy Father..." in this case, St. Philip. That doesn't mean that the saint is being called the Pope.

Rick DeLano said...

IANS:

While your contribution to this important and ongoing dialogue is to be welcomed- indeed, in a certain way, you have shown, perhaps, a path which, given careful and reflective consideration, can lead us forward; that is to say, a way in which the conversation can be expanded, in a suitably nuanced fashion, toward the end we all seek- that the mutual enrichment of all the stakeholders in the dialogue can, so to speak, bear witness in a profound way to the human flourishing which we all so fervently desire.

Prescinding entirely from any consideration of the narrower and potentially divisive doctrinal aspects of the question, it seems broadly admissible, at least in principle, to allow for a prudent period of reflection and meditation upon this, your intervention, which in a certain sense can be viewed as a manifestation of that fruitful reorientation to which we have all been called.

In conclusion, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, we can only be enriched by a prayerful emulation of your exemplary and thoughtful meditation.

I am not Spartacus said...

Dear Mr. Delano. Like how the lithe leg of a Lithuanian Landscaper named,Laima, becomes perfumed when she makes contact with a Rosemary Bush i the performance of her duties, I think all of us, in reading and thinking about your commentary, are, in an almost salutary simile, saturated with a sachet of sweetness that, unexpectedly, although to be graciously welcomed, also spices-up our interior life, lifting us up, if you will, into that same excited state not unlike, one is constrained to imagine, the excitement experienced by the neophyte Dragon Fly practicing his first take-off and landings on one of the, let us continue our flight of imagination, iridescent, innumerable, indifferent Lily Pads in that great stagnating, that is to say, continuity in fluidity, Ecumenical pond of life and which pond, as I am sure Sister Long-Skirts would agree, is the authentic pond into which we must all plunge ourselves so as to be “baptised” in an almost beautiful bathos, as it were, if our dialogue with others is to bear fruit.