Rorate Caeli

TLM in Tallahassee, Florida

From Stephen Mozier, who is active in the TLM movement in Florida:

The Tallahassee Latin Mass Society is being re-established to develop a regularly scheduled Traditional Latin Mass (1962 Missal) for the eastern area of the Pensacola-Tallahassee diocese. This re-establishment came about at the request of Archbishop Thomas Wenski of Miami, while he served as interim apostolic administrator of the diocese. All who are interested in gradually developing this ministry are welcome! 

A Traditional Latin Mass (1962 Missal) has been scheduled for 7pm EDT on Monday, April 30th at Saint Thomas the Apostle Catholic Parish (27 North Shadow St, off US Highway 90) in Quincy. Father Héctor R.G. Pérez, STD will be offering this Mass. For more information and regular updates please contact Stephen Mozier at stephenmozier@aol.com

16 comments:

Giovanni A. Cattaneo said...

And to think that many here doubted Bishop Wenski when he came in to town riding his Harley.

M. A. said...

PSST.. We sent an event notice for an upcoming TLM to be celebrated on May 5 by an ICR priest.

Since it hasn't been posted, perhaps it was overlooked?

Peterman said...

A gracious allowance. May I be so bold as to ask for a daily TLM in EVERY diocese?

Giovanni A. Cattaneo said...

Every diocese why think so small? As the Holy Father has said we need at least one in every parish.

Francis said...

"As the Holy Father has said we need at least one in every parish".

Yes indeed. Preferably on Sunday mornings as it should be and not at bizarre times like 3:00 in the afternoon.

Scott said...

This is a good thing, the four nearest TLMs are each about three hours away from Tallahassee. I pray this will have the support of the clergy and not die out after a couple Sundays like last time.

3:00 PM isn't a bizarre time...2:00 PM would be though.

Tom said...

"As the Holy Father has said we need at least one in every parish."

I don't believe that we've heard that from Pope Benedict XVI directly.

Asked whether the TLM would be celebrated in many ordinary parishes in future, Cardinal Castrillón said: "Not many parishes – all parishes. The Holy Father is offering this not only for the few groups who demand it, but so that everybody knows this way of celebrating the Eucharist."

However, Pope Benedict XVI said the following:

"The use of the old Missal presupposes a certain degree of liturgical formation and some knowledge of the Latin language; neither of these is found very often.

"Already from these concrete presuppositions, it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful."

1. Pope Benedict XVI wants (according to the Cardinal) "all parishes" to offer the TLM.

2. Pope Benedict XVI declared that the abilities to offer the TLM — liturgical formation and knowledge of Latin — are not found very often within "communities of the faithful."

3. Those are "concrete presuppositions," according to Pope Benedict XVI.

Therefore, Pope Benedict XVI's above declarations and Cardinal Castrillón statement in question contradict each other.

Tom

P.K.T.P. said...

Mr. Peterman:

You're point, unlike that of Mr. Cattaneo, is reasonable and apt. It is easily within the realm of possibility to have one per diocese--not only in the U.S.A. and France, as if these were the only countries on earth, but in every diocese throughout the world. At first, in many places, it could be one every-Sunday T.L.M. attended by only the celebrant and one server, perhaps in a monastery, but with the doors left open so that anyone could attend. Gradually, people would join them.

As for the suggestion of one per parish, those who ennunciate it obviously have no familiarity with the size of the traditionalist movement or the demand for the ancient Mass; nor do they have any conception of the resources or manpower available to the Church. I am also hoping to win the lottery jackpot this week. I expect to deposit my $10 million in winnings any day now.

But Mr. Peterman's suggestion points to the fact that, since 2008, in France and the U.S.A. the net change in dioceses offering the T.L.M. has been around zero--esp. over the last two years. The overall number of such Masses has risen only very slightly in that time. The news today is not a great victory because the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee already had an every-Sunday Traditional Latin Mass. The problem in France and the U.S.A. is dispersal: we need such Masses in each diocese, but 15% of French Dioceses and a full 25 of the 176 Roman sees in the U.S.A. do not have even one every-Su. T.L.M. As for the rest of the world, the situation is *relatively good in a tiny few countries (e.g. Gemany, Austria, England, New Zealand, Poland) and a disaster nearly everywhere else.

U.E. gives the P.C.E.D. full authority to implement the Pope's motu proprio, and there are hundreds of unanswered petitions from the faithful out there. If Msgr. Pozzo does not have the manpower to do his job (as he busies himself Modernising the Institute of the Good Shepherd and beginning the process of revolutionising our Missal), there are other ways to solve the problem. I suggest only three, as follows:

1. The Pope can require that there be at least one publicly-offered every-Sunday T.L.M. per diocese throughout the world, except where a diocese is served by fewsr than a dozen priests or has fewer than 10,000 subjects (and not including missionary sees, such as prefectures and vicariates apostolic);

2. More importantly: create a universal particular church (meaning a diocese or equivalent and not a personal prelature) whcih is personal and international in scope, for the traditionalist societies. A personal archdiocese could do meet the requirements.

3. Recognise all the Sacraments of the S.S.P.X as being both valid and licit.

Any one of these might do, esp. the second and third.

Piece of cake. But it isn't being done because the bishops (thanks to collegiality) run the whole show, not the Pope.

P.K.T.P.

Peterman said...

Francis said..
"Yes indeed. Preferably on Sunday mornings as it should be and not at bizarre times like 3:00 in the afternoon."

That's the point I was getting at. I've come to term these "bone throw" masses. Though I'm not sure if I should ever speak of Holy mass flippantly. My point is that these bishops throw one bone out to the "traditionalists" by having a mass on 7pm Monday? Do these Bishops wonder why the Pope is about to allow a TLM group go into any diocese they want?

I suspect they probably don't appreciate the decision on the SSPX is largely because of their ridiculous oppression of the TLM. Before anyone jumps on me, pleas understand that I appreciate the gracious gift to provide a TLM mass but please, 7pm Monday?

Marty Jude said...

Dear Peterman...you wrote, 'Do these Bishops wonder why the Pope is about to allow a TLM group go into any diocese they want?' ...which TLM group are you referring to? FSSPX?

I know what you're saying re the 'bone-throwing' TLMs...I feel it's scraps off the table sometimes...In our diocese in the UK, Ash Wednesday evening Mass, followed by, Easter Sunday morning Mass...ok, reasonable timings, but no regular [weekly Sunday Mass] and no Triduum Masses/ceremonies.

Oh, almost forgot, there is one weekly Saturday morning Mass - should be grateful for such small mercies [better than for some] but then there's always the N.O. 'mess' that we could attend, of course...well I guess that's the attitude of the uncaring Modernist bishops!!!

Stephen Mozier said...

The reason it is being held on Monday at 7pm is because Father Perez will be coming from Pensacola, where he solely covers the only parish there that does the TLM. He cannot come on a Sunday. Father Schumm, the pastor of St. Thomas parish in Quincy, is learning the TLM and will be doing them monthly (to start) on Sunday mornings when he is ready.

This TLM on Monday is an Inaugural Mass to get things going again after our first efforts produced some very successful Masses. There is a very great desire to have the TLM on our side of the diocese. This time around we have the support of Archbishop Wenski but two priests (Perez and Schumm) who are very enthusiastic to do this. All this is for Our Lord Jesus Christ, for His glory, Amen!

Peterman said...

Fair enough Stephen Mozier and beliver me if I was up in Tallahassee I'd be there and the issue of priests able to say the TLM is certainly valid. I am very wary though of these once in a blue moon masses at odd times which then appear to confirm the "there's no demand for the TLM in this diocese."

Well sure there isn't, not at 4pm Sunday for example.

Luka said...

In Kent Hovind's backyard :-)

Henry said...

"The overall number of such Masses has risen only very slightly in that time."

I think this is wrong. Though the number that appear on published lists may have risen slowly. But it's my impression that numerous new TLMs are now being offered that aren't listed anywhere. It's just not such a big deal anymore. For instance, I know of 7 locations in the dioceses of Knoxville and Nashville where diocesan priests are offering TLMs, but haven't seen that many in the usual combined listings (though they're all listed on individual web sites).

The problem is less with bishops and priests than with our fellow lay Catholics. There are priests who want to offer TLMs but can hardly find enough people to attend them. I know of no place where TLM attendance is not sparse in comparison with Novus Ordo attendance. This describes a demand problem rather than a supply problem. Perhaps the "new evangelization" we need is with Catholics who have grown comfortable with liturgy lite. I suspect things will change when the number of people wanting to attend the TLM is proportionate to the number of fine young priests anxious for justification to offer it.

porys said...

@Henry - please list those 7 locations of TLm in dioceses of Knoxville and Nashville - and I will publish it on wikkimissa (or you can do it on your own)

Knight of Malta said...

I also think there should be more Byzantine Catholic Tiodion liturgies!

Remember, us Traditionalists get focussed on the TLM, but there are many venerable liturgies, such as the Ambrosian.

Although Part's song, supra, is in the Vernacular, I have been to Orthodox liturgical services (they don't call them masses, of course) that would astound you. They are so deeply imbued with tradition and beauty, but very different from the TLM.

Unfortunately, Paul VI also put pressure on Catholic Orthodox to conduct their liturgies in the vernacular.