Rorate Caeli

07.07.07
Tell us: 5 years of Summorum Pontificum
Plus: Cardinal Burke on the 5th anniversary

Tell us if and how the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, of Pope Benedict XVI, has been applied in your diocese and changed your Catholic life.

You do not have to identify your diocese, if you do not wish to do so (in this case, please identify at least your country - comments posted as "Anonymous" exceptionally accepted).

___________________________________

Below, the first opinion, that of Cardinal Burke, in an interview to Catholic News Service:

199 comments:

iowapapist said...

I can confirm that I have seen no signs of activity based upon SP in the Archdiocese of Dubuque, Iowa, nor in the Sioux City Diocese. There has been some promising EF growth in Des Moines.

Joshua said...

Diocese of Penang, Malaysia- What Motu Propio?!? Nvr heard of it .

As far as I know, there are no officially sanctioned TLM's in Malaysia. The SSPX are here also of course! But they are quite small in numbers.

Anonymous said...

In the diocese of Raleigh NC, since SP was implemented, there are two weekday TLMs offered in very rural out of the way places and a once per month Mass at the Cathedral, ad one Sunday a month in the soutern part of the diocese.

Other than the two every Sunday TLM's, that were offered before SP, there are no new every Sunday TLMs in the diocese other than the SSPX every Sunday.

In the other diocese in NC, that of Charlotte, there are at present no Sunday TLM's offered other than the SSPX Sunday Mass.

Paul P.

JTLiuzza said...

I reside in the Archdiocese of New Orleans, Louisiana. Since the council we have always had one diocesan TLM on Sundays at 9:30 am.

Since SP, to my knowledge only 2 parishes have added the TLM: one a Saturday vigil and the other on Sunday at 7:00 am.

We also have an SSPX Chapel (Our Lady of Grace). I do not know how long the SSPX Chapel has been in our Archdiocese.

Kenneth J. Wolfe said...

In the Archdiocese of Washington, almost no change whatsoever since 2007. Three parishes offered the traditional Latin Mass before the motu proprio; four do so today. A very hostile cardinal-archbishop.

In the Diocese of Arlington, the motu proprio gave freedom to many traditional-leaning priests in a diocese where the bishop is hostile to the Mass. Two brand new TLMs existed in 2007 (after 28 years of a diocesan ban on the TLM). Today 13 of the diocese's 68 parishes, plus Christendom College's chapel, offer the TLM. That works out to one in five churches, although the times of the TLM are add-ons instead of, for instance, every Sunday at 10:30 a.m.

P.K.T.P. said...

iowapapist:

Could you please let me know more about the Diocese of Sioux City? It is one of the five U.S. dioceses in which we've actually had a roll-back in recent years: from every-Sunday to one Sunday per month. Is there any chance of recovering the every-Sunday incidence for the Mass of all Time?

P.K.T.P.

backtothefuture said...

I live in dutchess county, ny. The closest tlm is over an hr away. There's an sspx chapel a little over 1/2hr away, but i'm not going until an agreement is reached. It's a slow movement, but what has to be done is what the holy father has asked, for the tlm to be taught in seminaries. Who's gonna offer the tlm if no priests know or care to celebrate it?

P.K.T.P. said...

Tomorrow is the fifth anniversay of S.P.'s publication in 2007. It would be a perfect time for a Declaration from Rome on the current status of the S.S.P.X. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, we can all go back to sleep for the rest of the summer, no, until Christmas, no, until 2013.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

P.K.T.P.

I just want to let you know that there are no officially sanctioned Sunday TLMs in the diocese of Charlotte North Carolina USA.

Things seem to be getting worse as far as SP being implemented goes.

Paul P.

joan ellen said...

There is one TLM Mass In the Diocese of Kalamazoo on Sunday as far as I know. However, I understand that there are 5 or 6 young priests who know how to offer the TLM. That is encouraging.

STL said...

I am from St. Louis, MO and we sure miss Cardinal Burke. We were praying and hoping that he might have been the headline name following Monday's announcement. :( Anyway, there has not been much of an increase in TLMs offered since the Cardinal left St. Louis.

In fact, I think at best, various pastors consider the TLM to be the sole jurisdiction/purview of the Institute's parish in the diocese, and at worst, there are pastors actively against it.

I know that many, if not most, of the young priests ordained over the last three years have learned and wish to celebrate the TLM on a regular basis, but somehow this isn't resulting in more regular TLMs. I am afraid this may be because they are not getting much support from "the Chancery".

Moreover, the major seminary of St. Louis went from promoting and teaching the TLM to seminarians under Cardinal Burke back to discouraging and downplaying its use after he left. A very sad situation.

Thomas said...

This oratory was established after and because of SP:

http://www.benedictineoratory.com/

Athelstane said...

I've lived in three dioceses since Summorum Pontificum came down. Unfortunately, the one I currently live in is the one where there has been no real improvement - the Archdiocese of Washington, which Mr. Wolfe has, unfortunately, characterized accurately.

In the other two - Kansas City-St. Joseph and Venice, FL - there have been great strides.

Mornac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carl said...

What a promising interview! He as much as said he'd like to see a restoration of the prayers at the foot of the altar and of the offertory to the ordinary form. What a magnificent improvement that would be! I don't think I've ever heard such a high ranking prelate express such specific and excellent opinions on the liturgy. From the Cardinal's lips to God's ears, may we see such restorations sooner than later!

Texas Catholic said...

In the Diocese of Beaumont, Texas there was a prohibition of the TLM prior to SP. Since SP a Latin Mass Society has been founded in the Diocese and an every Sunday Missa Cantata is now offered by a Diocesan priest.

This has all been achieved even though the Bishop is very much against the TLM and has done his best to prevent priests from offering it.

Miguel Ayres de Campos-Tovar said...

A depressing update from Portugal: here, sadly, SP has had no tangible effect whatsoever - as of July 2012, there is still not a single official, regular, public Mass in the Extraordinary Form in the whole country (with the exception of that celebrated by the Canons Regular of St John Cantius in Fatima, held in a minuscule chapel and de facto private). Furthermore, I have also never heard of any *isolated* EF Masses anywhere in the country over the past 5 years - and, trust me, I would have known had any taken place.

I believe our country and Iceland are presently the only two countries in Europe without a single regular traditional Mass. The Patriarch of Lisbon, Cardinal Policarpo, issued "guidelines" for the implementation of SP in 2007 which, in practical terms, suspended its effects completely "until further notice", and his Auxiliary Bishop Carlos Azevedo is on record (after the release of SP) as saying that a Mass in Latin is "silly" and equating it with a "return to the Middle Ages", dismissively joking that "one might as well have it in Greek". Even getting a regular Novus Ordo Mass *in Latin* in one single Lisbon church proved a nightmare for the faithful and priests involved - and this remains the single Latin Novus Ordo Mass in the country. As of May 2012, the Archbishop of Braga (one of the world's oldest dioceses, and historically a veritable cornerstone of the Faith) was still urging his priests to "modernise and innovate" the liturgy to combat declining Mass attendance. Even liturgical music, it is interesting to observe, has remained generally unaffected by the Holy Father's best efforts - the mere act of singing in Latin is generally deemed "medieval" and "exclusive", and one still needs to pick one's church carefully just to avoid wacky processional dances and liturgical power-point slide shows. The very notion that some faithful may want to genuflect to receive Communion is wholly foreign, and extraordinary eucharistic ministers are simply not 'extraordinary'. Let me top this all off by stating, in all frankness, that I can't remember the last time I saw an identifiable priest on a Portuguese street - and I'm talking collars, not cassocks!

The obvious, inescapable reality of the matter, it pains me to say, is that Portugal is still as much of a post-conciliar wasteland as it was in the 1980s. And, needless to say, the Faith in this historically Catholic and once great nation is drying up dramatically while Neros like Policarpo play their harps (or should I say tambourines?) amid the flames.

Cardinal Policarpo may be on the verge of retirement (he is past 75), but I suspect none of his potential successors can possibly be any better at implementing SP. It is rumoured, in fact, that the only reason why the Holy Father has not accepted Cardinal Policarpo's resignation yet is because he can't find anyone in the Portuguese Episcopal Conference who wouldn't be even more disastrous. As a friend of mine put it recently, "if you so much as mention the EF to a Portuguese bishop, it's like you're reaching for his neck" - they treat it almost instinctively and irrationally as an assault on the "spirit of VII" which made them and solidified their power, and therefore as an almost personal threat.

Fortunately, I have lived in Oxford, UK, for four years now, where the Oratorians have had an early morning Sunday Mass in the EF (Low Msss) for several years - as well as an unusually dignified solemn NO Mass in Latin with a splendid choir, and a solemn EF Mass on some feast-days. Two other Oxford churches have regular EF Masses (although not on Sundays, I believe), one of them celebrated by an enthusiastic former Anglican priest.

So, when the few Portuguese Catholics who still care about the well-being of their souls ask me how to cope, my answer is simple - emigrate!

MrBill said...

To my knowledge, the first public EF in the Diocese of Monterey (California USA) was held at St. Paul the Apostle church in Pismo Beach on Sunday, September 23, 2007, nine days after SP went into effect.

Before then, Bishop Sylvester Ryan (friend of Cardinal Roger Mahony, both now retired) spoke volumes of his support of the traditional mass ("if a priest wants to say it, he can say it!") ... but years of requests and pleadings went unheeded. Only after his retirement, followed 9 months later by SP's promulgation, did his successor, Bishop Richard Garcia, actually put those words into tangible action.

The 12:30pm low mass has continued weekly at St. Paul's ever since.

Introibo said...

I live in the Salford Diocese in the North of England. Whilst SP appears to have made very little impact I am fortunate to be able to make the 50 mile round trip to the next Diocese where a Priest from the Institute of Christ The King offers TLM every Sunday at 8.30am. SSPX have a fairly large following in my own Diocese mainly because there is very little alternative accept at obscure times. May the Good Lord continue to bless and protect our Holy Father.

NIANTIC said...

In the Diocese of Norwich,CT, we have one Sunday TLM at noon. This is a low Mass offered by a faithful priest since the 90's. There are three additional assistant priests capable of offering the TLM but cannot do so in their own parishes. They are stand in's when our regular priest is not available.
Basically the TLM is under "benign neglect" here by the powers that be. The Novus Ordo rules the roost.SP makes absolutely no difference here and most people do not even know there is a TLM, or SP issued by the Holy Father. We are grateful to at least have the Mass available.

Matthew Rose said...

I recently had my son baptized in the Traditional Rite at a Novus Ordo parish which has not seen a Sacrament conferred or confected in a Traditional Rite since the Deforms. I asked the priest for it, he asked, "is that even allowed," and I replied, "yes."

Objectively, of course, I didn't need Summorum to know it is allowed, but it would have helped should the priest have not taken my reply at face value.

Olindensis said...

In the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, Brazil, there is, since 2006(before Motu Proprio), one sunday Mass, that was granted by Archbishop José Cardoso after a group of faithful and a parish priest have asked. These Masses continue to exist under the new Archbishop Fernando Saburido, but he is hostile and don't want that the Traditional Mass spread through the archdiocese. The original parish priest, feeling pressured by the new government, gave up to say the Masses. Another parish priest, one of the Vicar-Generals of Dom José Cardoso and more respected, is saying the Masses now, but not in his parish. The Masses are celebrated at an old small chapel in the center of Recife. The chapel is a beautiful baroque one, dedicated to the victory of portuguese and brazilian catholics over the heretic dutch invaders in the battles of Guararapes, but access to it is not so easy for some people and it is located in the middle of the market area; often the market opens at sunday and there is too much noise and disrespect disturbing the Mass.

The Archbishop Saburido was invited to participate in one Traditional Mass, but said that he wouldn't go because he feels bad in these Masses. Someone almost suggested him to seek an exorcist, but managed to hold on the tongue.

MartyJude said...

In Hallam, England, there is a regular, once monthly, Saturday morning Mass at the Cathedral, with some other Masses, organised via the LMS. The cathedral is currently under some form of 'refurbishment' which is taking sometime, perhaps a year or more. V worrying, as, although they had a Blessed Sarament chapel, the church itself was very trad. with various side altars/chapels and sole statues/icons. Plenty of votive candle stands. One dreads to think of the carnage that may result...!!! Certainly, no more/frequent TLM Masses, particularly every Sunday or Holy Days [mind most trad Holy Days are arranged].

Edward said...

Here in the Sacramento Diocese we have had an FSSP parish since 2002, we also have isolated masses usually said by retired priests in the cities of Chico, Vacaville , Vallejo and Auburn. I believe there is more of a interest among younger priests in building a strong orthodox conservative church than one built on Tradition and the Latin Mass.

Daniel Arseno said...

In Quebec City (diocese of Quebec) the FSSP was invited by then archbishop cardinal Ouellet, who also donated a church to the FSSP in 2009 (http://fssp-quebec.org).

Today, the community is growing slowly but steadily regardless of the hostility shown by the diocese. We had a young diocesan seminarian who served as cérémoniaire for the last year almost every Sunday and who decided to "transfer" to the FSSP seminary in Wigratzbad. One more priest for us, one less for them. (Sorry about the "us" and "them", but that's just how it is.)

We also have a young Dominican who surpassed all the obstacles his superiors put in his way (knowing he was traditionally-minded) and managed to get ordained to the priesthood.

The future looks good for Quebec City, especially with our benefactor being the number one papabile.

Martyjo said...

Holy man that Cardinal Burke is, and I wish there were more like him in the Vatican right now, I cannot understand how His Eminence can maintain that the Tridentine Mass and the Mass of Pope Paul VI are valid expressions of the same rite.

The latter did not follow theologically from the former, as evidenced not only by the famous Ottaviani Intervention, but, more tellingly, from the following 1965 statement of intention by the chief architect of the New Mass, Mgr. Annibale Bugnini: “We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants.” (L’Osservatore Romano, March 19, 1965).

What followed was a rite stripped of its ancient Canon, as well as of its many reverential gestures and reparatory prayers. No longer was a high altar used, but rather a table over which the priest (often referred to now as the President) presided over the Assembly. Also highly informative was the shift in description from the “Holy Sacrifice” to “celebration of the Eucharist.”

In fact, it was as Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci had observed in the critical study sent to Pope Paul VI “…a grave departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as formulated by the Council of Trent…”

With the further illicit introduction of Communion in the hand and the widespread misuse of ministers of Holy Communion, altar girls, etc. (which Popes Paul VI and John Paul II respectively tried to stop) the honest conclusion must be that the New Mass today is much closer to the Protestant than the Catholic mindset. It is not remotely as sacred and expressive of Catholic belief as the ancient liturgy of more than 1000 years standing.

And that’s another bugbear.
How could we have got to such a state in the Church that this hallowed Mass of the centuries, so Catholic in its theology, the Mass that sanctified the saints and martyrs, is now called the “Extraordinary Form,” like some kind of distant relative far removed from memory, while that which has opened the Church up to so much Liturgical upheaval and Sacramental abuse in just 42 years is called the “Ordinary Form.” It’s truly heart breaking! What’s even more heart rending is that a majority of the world’s Bishops are simply thumbing their nose at Summorum Pontificum. They don’t want a return to unambiguous Catholic worship.

Tryphon said...

Croatia

There is one mass in our capital - Zagreb - every sunday...(Auxiliary bishop tried to block the initiative of lay people to have that mass for year or so, until PCED intervened)

There is also one mass weekly in Dubrovnik, but not on Sunday in old dominican rite....

latin mass guy said...

The Latin Mass has grown somewhat in the Diocese of Savannah Ga, where I live, since SP. From my knowledge we have two weekly Latin Masses (one in Savannah and one in Macon Ga, but there are a lot of groups Growing in the Diocese, including the one I am head of in Brunswick Ga. I have only been a traditionalist 3 months before the former Bishop retired in 2011 so I do not fell like i should say how he handled SP because i Really don't know, but the current bishop, Gregory Hartmyher is very tolerant and allows a Latin Mass at 1 Pm every Sunday in his Cathedral were my son serves as an altar server. My family loves the SSPX, but unfortunately the closest SSPX mass is three hours away, ( in Sanford Fl ) so we are unable
to attend.

Saint Pius X, Pray For Us!

A Texan said...

In my diocese in Texas there is a weekly TLM that has existed since before SP. Another pastor recently started saying the TLM but was run out of his own parish and reassigned. He has now been run out of the diocese altogether (not by the bishop, though).

Our bishop is friendly to the TLM community and very orthodox. The same cannot be said of the 'establishment', however, which predates him.

Starving Catholic said...

In this diocese of the deep south that shall remain nameless, there is no FSSP presence. There is a TLM at the Cathedral weekly and at another far away church once a month. The southern portion of the diocese has no TLM and many priests who are quite hostile to it and any requests for it. One priest even calls it "Hitler's Mass".

Dixie said...

In our archdiocese in the US, there is only one TLM. It is allowed at one archdiocesan chosen church. Much played up on the internet website, but in reality this community was savaged when the very devout priest was run out of the town, and then left the country. He was the third TLM priest to do so in this archdiocese. One other is leaving this month.TLM's have been requested at numerous parishes, but the answer is always no.

There are several priests willing to offer the TLM but the consequences .... They have only to look at what happened to the other priests.

Having had the misfortune to deal personally with the chancery during this fiasco, I have to say that the outright hostility and duplicity by chancery employees and priests towards those who have asked for nothing but implementation of SP was eye-opening. Hundreds (not an exaggeration) have signed letters and petitions to Rome about our situation but nothing has changed, well, no, it has got worse.

According to our newspaper, our three Catholic universities in the city offer healthcare to employees that includes birth control. Our Catholic healthcare system, the largest in the region, also does so. The usual platitudes issued from the archbishop, all about dialogue, but what is done? This is the atmosphere in which we are denied the TLM.

I last attended Mass at the SSPX church here, and will most likely continue to do so. They have the TLM twice on Sunday, and a vigil Mass on Saturday.

I no longer have any faith that Rome cares for us little people. I bring to the Church nothing but myself, my children, my grandchildren. I am not a member of any special interest group that our archdiocese is so fond of, we have no political pull or wealth. We are a safe group to oppress, and in our archdiocese oppress they do.

Rick DeLano said...

Los Angeles has, in addition to the SSPX, a parish with a weekly 1pm High Mass, a parish with a weekly 6:30 am Low Mass (with a 9:30 High Mass on 3rd Sunday), and a smattering of others.

The best thing since SP is that these are now parish Masses, and it is generally possible to find a Latin Mass most holy days, if one keeps one's ear to the ground.

David L Alexander said...

"In the Diocese of Arlington ... the times of the TLM are add-ons instead of, for instance, every Sunday at 10:30 a.m."

Close, but not quite. At St John the Beloved, the TLM at noon replaced the "Novus Ordo Missae" in Latin in October 2007. It is not an addition. I believe the same applies to at least one other location. Of the 14 locations in the diocese that offer the TLM, eight have it every Sunday and most if not all holydays of obligation. The biggest impediment to having a TLM in "prime time" is the lack of interest from within the parish itself. And yet, the Christmas Midnight Mass at St John's is very well attended.

There is every reason to believe that interest in the traditional Mass will grow steadily, rather than diminish, within the diocese.

As to life across the river, in the Archdiocese of Washington, the fact that an historic church in the heart of downtown has had a Traditional Mass every Sunday at NINE O'CLOCK for over twenty years, says something in itself.

In 1983, the late Silvia Cardinal Oddi said that the Traditional Mass would return if people wanted it badly enough, to which I would say, if enough people want it badly enough. Obviously they don't know what they're missing.

Anonymous said...

In the diocese of Buenos Aires there is no normal TLM. The only one is celebrated by a priest who does not like the TLM and criticises during the sermon. There are a lot of people interested in having one mass in a normal place and time.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta has an FSSP parish, as well as an SSPX chapel. However, no other diocesan parishes offer it. There are priests who can and would like to, but don't. I drive the 45 minutes to the FSSP parish on Sundays. I cannot express in words what the TLM means to me and how profoundly I encounter Christ there. I am a fairly recent convert and had had it with all the abuses of the N.O.

R.G.

Mark of the Vineyard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gaius said...

Nothing at all has changed in the Diocese of Pittsburgh, PA (USA). Some of you may recall then Bishop Wuerl's extremely unfair response to SP. We still have only one "sanctioned" location--St. Boniface church--in an inconvenient place, but an extremely large and active community. I fear, however, that the only opertunity for Mass and the Traditional Sacraments is itself in trouble. The long-time chaplin has been placed on leave and a new priest, largely unfamiliar with the rubrics and the likes, has been called upon to take his place. Just before this (within the last 6 months) the non-profit organization, Pittsburgh Latin Mass, broke away from the parish, took with them many vestments and items they claimed were their own, and cause a great deal of striff and discord amongst the parish that is already seen in poor light by the Diocese and its Administration but most especially the priests of Pittsburgh. A handful of recently ordained priests either know the now "Extraordinary Form" but are reluctant to say it in our parishes or only say it privately. Others are keen to learn. Classes/worskshops were allowed this last year, but the Diocese refused to advertise them or make priests aware of the oppertunity. Attendance was extremely small.

Unfortunately, even the FSSPX presence in Pittsburgh small. Their facilities are in an old elementary school and there has been little renovation. There is great need of a new organ there. I was blessed, however, to meet Bishop Fellay when he came to Pittsburgh for Confirmations in 2009 (if I recall). The Society is in great hands.

It is my constant prayer that Tradition return to Pittsburgh at large, but it seems a far off dream. The Diocese and our Bishop are bent on ordaining more and more permenant deacons, assigning lay administrators of parishes and "pastoral associates." About 5 years ago, a religious sister was placed in control of a parish for "priestless-Sundays" running Communion Services and the like. There are many wonderful things happening in Pittsburgh, but even more needs attention. While Bishop Zubik is extremely fair and our new aux.bishop, Bishop Walterschide knows the EF and has celebrated it publically in his home Diocese, I do not believe he has in Pittsburgh. He was the overseeing the issues with Pittsburgh Latin Mass for a while as well as the failed classes for priests but again, things were quite unsatisfactory.

In Pittsburgh, it is as if Summorum Pontificum and Universae Ecclesiae never existed, which is a shame, because following the council, Pittsburgh had one of the earliest, strongest, and largest communities attached to the 1962 Missal in the United States thanks to a few holy priests.

TDC said...

RE: David L Alexander: 07 July, 2012 01:50, et.al.

Saint Lawrence in Alexandria also has a regular Traditional Mass around Noon each Sunday I believe.

Gravitas said...

DC has been next to nothing under Wuerl. Not a single daily Mass and he refuses to confirm our children.

Anonymous said...
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Centurio said...

In Basel Switzerland no change since sp. three tlm offered every sunday by icrss,fssp and fsspx. I am myself part of the icrss "parish" a stable group of 40-60 people every sunday and holy day of obligation at 5 pm, not a convenient time for us.

We pray for a reconciliation with the fsspx as this will I think really improve matters in basel (and everywhere else)

JabbaPapa said...

Following the Motu Proprio, there is a regular Sunday Mass following the Tridentine Rite offered every Sunday evening in our diocese -- and given the extraordinarily small size of he diocese, it means that 99% of the inhabitants may if they wish fulfill their Sunday obligation in the Traditional manner.

I am in the 1% who can't (health reasons -- but pray for this to change, please).

The priest who gives these Masses is our parish priest, but they are given elsewhere in the diocese.

Then again, Catholicism is the State Religion, and we are very well furnished in churches and priests. Many many dioceses simply lack the manpower to fulfill the expectations of the more traditionally minded faithful.

Anonymous said...

SP was ignored completely in the Diocese of Calgary. The diocesan newsletter made no mention of it, shocking considering it was one of the most important developments in modern church history. The FSSP has a presence in Calgary but has to share a parish with the NO. The word on the QT from those who rub shoulders with the local ordinary is that if his priests have time to learn the TLM, they have time to assume other duties in the diocese. That's the idea, keep their noses to the grindstone and they won't have a chance to rebel!

Anonymous said...

From England
My Bishop has given permission for EF when requested. As a result there are some 10 places (approx 10% of parishes) in the diocese where the Tridentine Mass is celebrated, often with considerable splendour. One parish in particular has been zealous in providing a daily EF celebration, and draws a congregation of many individuals from miles away. The priest is very keen and seems to be establishing a secure centre for this liturgical mode.

As a result of this priest's activity in a formerly contented-though-sleepy small town parish, the local church is seriously disunited. A vary small nucleus is wholeheartedly approving of the return to the old ways. The great majority of local members is troubled, discomfited, distressed, perplexed or angry in varying degrees. Attempts to speak with the pp to ask for his reasons for forcing this change upon the parishioners have been met with a recommendation not to worry but to get on and "Say your Rosary."

The parish priest does say an OF Mass on Sundays and sometimes on as many as 3 weekdays, but he appears to find this an extremely painful activity. As a result there is a very considerable tension at such Masses. A small number of local parishioners has moved away to other churches since they have the possibility of driving elsewhere; most people, though uncomfortable,have continued in their home parish saying "At least we still have Mass."

Unfortunately, the in-gathered Tridentine congregation, due to their coming from afar, play no part in the life of the parish. They use the priest, the car park and the church hall loos, but by the nature of things they do not "belong." They didn't marry here, send their children to the local Catholic school, maintain the church and presbytery or build the church hall; they have not buried their dead in this place. Their financial contribution seems to be generous, but - they do not belong. Sadly, many of the people who still go to church from the locality also feel they no longer belong - that their church has been stolen from them.

Since provision should be made for the EF, (and indeed, should have been made from the introduction of the post-conciliar Mass form), I personally think it would be much more sensible at this stage for priests who strongly favour the EF liturgy in all its Tridentine sacramental usages to be located in the major towns and cities of
the diocese where there is more than one Catholic church, so that those faithful who prefer the OF can worship and participate in Mass without being recommended to say their rosaries.

Joshua said...

The Archbishop of Hobart (whose replacement we now await, given he passed the canonical age last November) has made sure that there is only one Traditional Latin Mass in Hobart, and that it is only celebrated once a month. This Mass dates back about twenty years (the original celebrant was later appointed Bishop of Lismore, N.S.W.), and, sadly, the coming into force of Summorum Pontificum has had no effect whatsoever here in Tasmania. Please pray for His Grace, and for a Catholic Archbishop to be appointed soon.

John Fisher said...

The motu proprio has made no difference in the Archdiocese of Hobart Tasmania. The TLM is only allowed once a month in Hobart on a moveable Sunday. The Archbishop Adrian Doyle says he has a shortage of priests but will not allow an FSSP or other priest to come into the Archdiocese of Hobart.

Gratias said...

What a joy to hear Cardinal Burke! May he be the next Pope.

To add to Rick Delano's comment on the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, there is a third TLM every-Sunday 1:30 pm at Ventura Mission. These are the three regular traditional masses in this Archdiocese of 5,000,000 baptized Catholics, and all were ongoing before Summorum Pontificum. Not much difference.

Despite this, there has been some improvement. Cardinal Roger Mahony has retired! His successor has allowed FSSP priests to drive up from San Diego to offer officially authorized masses on four occasions as far as I know.

We gathered 1400 signatures from Una Voce Los Angeles and 700 from Una Voce Ventura petitioning the new Archbishop to allow an FSSP chapel or personal parish, but there was no response at all..

However, since Summorum Pontificum we have more priests willing to offer the Latin Mass, three currently in our parish. Before retiring, Mahony saw to it that one was ostracized to the boonies, but the others, Dominican and Augustinian holy priests, were beyond his reach.

Living in Pacific Palisades, West Los Angeles we still have to drive 90 min each way to get to the TLM, anf are grateful for the opportunity. We have a great Gregorian Schola and the numbers of the faithful are growing steadily. When you go to Latin Mass you really make a difference to the Church as an individual. As I learned here at Rorate (from P.K.T.P.) what really counts is having a regular every-Sunday Latin Mass. This allows a community to develop, with masters of ceremonies, altar servers, and choirs to develop. These small remnants are what will keep the Faith through these dark Vatican Council II ages.

Anonymous said...

Sabah, Malaysia. The SP is never implemented in here. There are a small number of Catholics attending TLM celebrated by SSPX priests once a month since five years ago. I can tell you that the local diocese is never friendly towards TLM and the faithful who are attached to it!

TLM has changed our lives. We thought we were Catholics until TLM truly convert us to the true Faith. We never look back!

Ygnacia said...

In the Northern part of the Diocese of Monterey, California, for over 4 years now we have had the blessing of a Sung High Mass every Sunday, and we observe all the Holy Days of Obligation. We have our own Chaplain, and a solid, growing community. Visit us if you are in our area:

www.MontereyLatinMass.org

Jacobi said...

The answer to the re-establishment of the Traditional Catholic Mass lies with our priests, an increasing number of whom are sympathetic to it.

The 9.00am Mass, for instance, could be Novus Ordo and the 11.00, a sung E.F. Mass. This would be similar to the old practise of a low Mass followed by a high/sung Mass.

Integration of the E.F. as a co-equal form of the Roman Rite alongside the N.O. in parishes, is better than creating separate liturgical islands.

GE said...

In Copenhagen, Denmark, the situation is thus:

Before SP: Mass once a month in the chapel of a religious institute.

After SP: Mass every 1st and 3rd Sunday in the most central Catholic church in town. The Bishop and the Vicar General have both celebrated the Mass.

So yes, it has had a sizeable impact. However, it is still difficult to find priests willing to celebrate and we often have to fly them in from abroad.

GE said...

For me personally, I can say that SP has had a tremedous impact on my spiritual life. I converted in 2008, but felt uncomfortable in mainstream Catholic circles. Discovering the TLM meant both more prayerful liturgy and more faithful Catholic friends.

mic said...

A Roma, dopo aver partecipato con gioia alla prima messa VO dopo 39 anni in Santa Maria Maggiore il 14.09.2007, la situazione non è ideale.

Rispetto ad altre diocesi italiane, nelle quali c'è netta chiusura, almeno ci sono alcune Sante Messe usus antiquior, ma tutte in zone centrali e poco accessibili, soprattutto da parte delle persone anziane che abitando in periferia, a causa delle distanze e dei collegamenti non ottimali della città.

Registriamo in primis il disprezzo e la intolleranza del card. Vicario e quella di molti parroci, ai quali arrivano le intimidazioni del Vicariato (sic!).

Ci siamo visti togliere un altare nella cripta di S. Croce in Gerusalemme per il sabato mattina, appena cambiato il Parroco che, senza sentire ragioni, ha affermato con modi taglienti e sprezzanti che la parrocchia non poteva riconoscersi in quella celebrazione... alle nostre rimostranze in Vicariato, ci è stato risposto che se avessimo continuato le proteste, ci avrebbero tolto anche la Messa domenicale in S. Anna al Laterano (ospiti delle Suore per un'ora la domenica pomeriggio, senza un luogo per poter portare avanti una nostra 'pastorale')

Questo, nella diocesi del Papa...
Continuiamo a sperare, pregare e cercar di 'promuovere' di nostra iniziativa come possiamo, consapevole che aver permesso la ripresa dell'antico Rito senza promuoverlo è quasi come non averlo permesso. Ma per fortuna c'è la Grazia del Signore che vincerà tutti gli ostacoli, anche se adesso prevalgono le difficoltà.

E' per questo che aspettiamo con ansia la regolarizzazione canonica della Fraternità San Pio X (presente a Roma, in Via Urbana, solo il giovedì pomeriggio e la domenica mattina)!

Benedict Carter said...

In the Archdiocese of Nairobi, Kenya, there is no Old Mass offered at all to my knowledge, other than that at the SSPX Priory of the Holy Cross, which can be found at:

Amboseli Road
Lavington
Nairobi

The funny thing is that Nu-Church nuns (there are various convents very close to the Priory) have started assisting at the SSPX Mass, which will no doubt infuriate the Cardinal Archbishop.

A note about Kenyan Catholicism: speaking to various nu-Church Catholics here, they seem to have not the faintest idea about the Sacramental differences between Catholics and the local Anglicans. So when you hear people say, "Oh, but the Church is growing in Africa!", the truth is that it's the same neo-Modernist, neo-protestant variety that you find elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Also the Diocese of Bozen-Brixen (Italy) does not have a every-Su. Mass!

Barbara said...

That document changed my Catholic life completely- the only soul in the parish that was touched by it, though. What a shame - despite my little efforts to carry the news of the document to others - no way - they weren't very interested at all and some were downright hostile and insulting. Well they can all keep their new-fangled, protestantised version of Catholicism - there is no going back there for me. I have never been so at one with anything in the Catholic Church as I have with the Old Rite. It had a liberalising effect on me - and can honestly say finally I am at home in the Church (Militant). I am still amazed at this. But, at the time - 5 years ago, I was quite angry when I found out that the Old Rite had been hidden from me and others and in what manner it had been substituted by the New Mass. I have to travel quite some distance to attend it. But all the sufferings, misunderstandings and difficulties on account of it are nothing compared to the gift I have been given. I love the Old Rite and will be eternally grateful to Pope Benedict XVI for giving us back our patrimony. I know, I know, not many are paying attention yet, but I believe there will be a restoration.

James C. said...

ARCHDIOCESE OF BOSTON:

Before SP we had 1 weekly Sunday Solemn TLM at St. Mary Immaculate of Lourdes in the suburb of Newton.

After SP, that parish now has the TLM every day, and the Sunday TLM is at 10:30am.

In addition, there are weekly Sunday TLMs at St. Adelaide parish in Peabody (1pm, about 30 minutes north of Boston), and at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross (11am).

Cardinal O'Malley isn't exactly fond of the traditional rite, and he won't allow the FSSP or ICKSP to establish a permanent presence in the archdiocese, but I honestly can't fault him too much: the every-Sunday 11am TLM at the Cathedral only gets about 50 people (the First Friday TLM even less). Last year he also offered confirmations in the traditional rite for the first time.

The archdiocese also has two other distant suburban parishes which regularly offer the TLM (at St. Monica's in Methuen, Wednesday nights and First Fridays; at St. Joseph's in Quincy, first and third Wednesday mornings).

A young parochial vicar at St. Catherine of Genoa parish in Somerville (just outside Boston) has been able to celebrate occasional TLMs. There's hope for more to come, if his pastor is amenable.

Finally, the Harvard Council of the Knights of Columbus has been working hard at getting the TLM celebrated at at St. Paul parish in Harvard Square; so far, we've been able to organize 1 to 2 feast-day TLMs a semester.

New Catholic said...

Mark, since we cannot edit each individual comment, it is hard for us to let your comment through while at the same time you question our editorial choices. If you wish to present the information differently, we would be glad to accept it.

177stock said...

I live in Hertfordshire in the Westminster Diocese in the UK.The problem for us has been not getting Mass venues but getting priests to celebrate the traditional Mass this despite the Latin Mass Society laying on various training days for priests interested in saying the traditional Mass so where are they .

Scranton Priest said...

In the diocese of Houma-Thibadoux Louisiana, south of New Orleans, diocese of 39 parishes two daily masses are celebrated. on Sunday three masses are said in two locations, and this happens despite the bishop's distaste for the traditional mass. in New Orleans the situation is better than reported above. The faithful of the archdiocese can attend traditional Mass at five locations. Every Sunday at Sacred Heart in LaCombe north of New Orleans, in Kener just south of the city by the airport at two sites. in the city itself at old saint Patrick's every Sunday, and once a month on Sunday at the church of saint Steven. not bad, but the initiative was came from the pastors not the diocese. that's the point of SP. the question of the old rite is no longer in the hands of the bishops its up to the parish priests (they need be men, and stand firm and weather the storm.) Fr WtC

New Catholic said...

Well, Mark's comment mentioned that (as we have already said here in Rorate), there is ONE diocese in Portugal where the TLM is celebrated daily (in a chapel of the Franciscans of the Immaculate), and also by another priest on Sundays: Leiria-Fatima, more specifically in Fatima itself. And also that one Traditional wedding was celebrated in the Diocese of Coimbra this year. We are very glad for this joyous event, but it still does not alter the fact that the Summorum situation in Portugal is the most dismal in all of Western Europe.

Anonymous said...

A few general comments from England (outside London,but Archdiocese of Westminster).The Latin Mass seems to be saying that The Mass Is Back; a lot of talk and big events in the cities and many training days for priests.However it seems harder and harder to find priests to come out of the cities to offer Mass for declining and small congregations: little growth. There are priests who are saying a weekday Mass in the Traditional Rite, but they do not offer it on Sundays when we need it. There seems little expansion & the Church seems more and more like Anglicanism with everyone "doing their own thing" and every church just slightly different and you pays your money and you takes your choice.Most ordinary catholics appear to make up their minds about most things.

Benedict Carter said...

New Catholic:

Re Portugal, I can comment from personal experience. Until very recently, when I moved to Kenya, I lived for three years 45 kms from Fatima so I know the situation there well.

There is an Old Mass said by a Father Joao Rodrigues on Sunday at 17:00 in a seminary Chapel hard by the Sanctuary. He has been horribly isolated by the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima as a result and is cold-shouldered by the (mainly Polish and very few old and doddery) other members of his Order. He is seen as a maverick and, in Soviet-like terms, his mental health is questioned for wanting to say the Old Mass.

Until last year there was also a Sunday Mass said by an Italian priest at the private Chapel built by a rich French lady onto her house in a village near Fatima. That priest is incardinated in Siena Diocese in Italy and has returned there. The village was so isolated that even with a GPS I couldn't find the French lady's house on the two occasions I tried.

The recent marriage in the old rite was between two friends of mine, one of whom is the President of Una Voce Portugal, an organisation I founded along with him and three or four others. He had to bring a priest in from Spain to administer the marriage and say Mass for him and his wife and the whole project took umpteen letters and a great deal of suspicion had to be alleviated before permission was given. He was accused in effect of being a schismatic at one early stage of proceedings, which took months to resolve.

Other than that, it's the SSPX in Fatima on the 1st and 3rd Sundays of each month.

And nothing else.

Filipe d'Avillez said...

The state of SP in Portugal.
http://tinyurl.com/d2mow4t
(article in Portuguese)

Anonymous said...

The Archdiocese of Perth has a Parish in Perth dedicated to the Extraordinary Form with daily Mass and 3 Masses every Sunday. The former Archbishop was very accomodating and even said Mass there often and once gave the clerical tonsure to a Seminarian. The new Bishop does not appear to be sympathetic; he has pulled support for three "traditional" vocations, does not say the Old Mass and his Cathedral liturgy has so far been horrific.

KnotWilbur said...

NC,
I live in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, in a very small town. Our archbishop has given a formerly closed, beautiful church to the FSSP, and the TLM is the only rite celebrated there, both on Sunday, and through the week. I can only make it there occasionally, more due to our current situation, but it is a good, non-territorial parish. I understand that there's also an SSPX chapel in CIncinnati itself, although I've not been there.

I'd love to see more TLMs here, especially at either of the parishes closest to my family home. Those two are twinned, and I can't help but think how great it could be if, upon retirement of either priest, the archbishop would consider letting the FSSP have the church.

While my family situation is not to my liking in this regard, all of you, who largely seem to be in worse circumstances, will be in my prayers.

Anonymous said...

Arlington, VA Diocese: the number of traditional Latin masses has increased, but there are no regularly schedules such masses between the hours of 8 AM and 12:30 PM on Sundays.

Henry said...

In the Diocese of Knoxville, there was one TLM every Sunday before SP, now there are three. We had never had a solemn high Mass, now several per year. Before SP, never a weekday TLM, now occasional, weddings, funerals, etc.

There were two TLM celebrants in the diocese before SP, now there are five.

However, the number of lay people wanting the TLM has not increased as much as the number of TLM celebrants. Given the number of seminarians interested in celebrating the TLM, this is an emerging problem that we did not anticipate before SP--a surplus of TLM celebrants. This--lack of enthusiasm rather than overt opposition to the TLM--is the damper on its growth.

Steve Cavanaugh said...

Archdiocese of Boston

To add to James C's report, the Chapel of Our Savior in Brockton Mass (staffed by the Atonement Friars) has a TLM on the second Friday of every month at 7 pm. There is a small schola which sings at every Mass. Typically about 20-30 people attend.

The priest at St Catherine's had been offering a weekly Sunday TLM at his previous parish in Middleborough (far south end of the Archdiocese) until he was transferred to Somerville last June.

Benedict Carter said...

A translatyion of the document in Portuguese linked to by Filipe d'Avillez:


Five Years on, Summorum Pontificum is a dead letter in Portugal

It was five years ago that Benedict XVI published the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, in which the use of the Gregorian Rite (very often called the Tridentine Rite) was liberalised.

In this document, the Pope asked the Bishops to apply the document with generosity, allowing the faithful who ask for it to assist at this Mass in their dioceses.

Five years later, of all the dioceses in Portugal, only in Fatima is there a regular Mass said according to the Gregorian Rite, said on Sundays at 18:30 by a diocesan priest in the Chapel of the Sisters of the Daughters of Mary, Mother of the Church.

Lisbon is one of the few European capitals, and the only one in a Catholic-majority country, where there is not a single regular celebration of an EF Mass since the publication of Summorum Pontificum.

Even in Moscow, which has about 20,000 Catholics, there are three regular Masses and in Copenhagen, with less than 40,000 Catholics, there is one each month.

Ignorance and Fear
Marco Paulo da Vinha, President of Una Voce Portugal, a movement which seeks to promote interest in the Gregorian Rite, explained that there are several reasons for the lack of such Masses in the country.

“There is great ignorance amongst the faithful. Many people have no idea that the possibility exists to assist at Mass in the EF”.

On the other hand, in the few cases where interest has been shown, the response of the Hierarchy has been cold, if not explicitly hostile. Marco Paulo da Vinha that there were requests made by groups in Setubal and in Lisbon. In the first case, authorisation was refused; in the case of the capital, various reasons why permission could not be given were raised by the Patriarch and no progress was made. Along with some faithful, there are priests who have shown an interest in the EF Mass, but who prefer to say nothing because of their fear of the repercussions.

For the rest, there are communities of Religious who have private Masses in their Chapels but who don’t publicise them to avoid negative reactions or because (in the case of the Diocese of Lisbon) the Patriarch has forbidden them.

The President of Una Voce has also recently experienced this in trying to celebrate his own marriage according to the old rite. “We tried in two dioceses. In Leiria we began by showing proof that all the invitees to the wedding knew the rite along with showing that Summorum Pontificum doesn’t ask for this proof but we were refused. Afterwards, we tried in Coimbra but the process took more than five months to be approved”, he explained.

At last, after receiving permission, came the difficulty of arranging a priest able to say the Mass. “The Portuguese priests who know how to say the EF Mass didn’t want to, so as not to be exposed. It was necessary finally to invite a priest from abroad” to celebrate what was the first marriage according to the Tridentine Rite in the country since the motu proprio was published.

Tracy Hummel said...

Here in the Dallas and Fort Worth dioceses we have two options: the SSPX, which has been here since the late 70's with a chapel in the Denton area and one in a suburb of Fort Worth, the FSSP, here since about 91, with a location in Irving and one in Fort Worth. The Dallas area chapel since SP has become a full-fledged TLM parish, a good thing since they were somewhat restricted by the former bishop. Other than that there as been no real change. No priests have taken advantage of SP, I suspect due to fear of reprisals or marginalization. I know one priest who, years before SP, told me he would say the TLM every day if he could but he still does not. Obviously neither bishop has come out openly forbidding it or imposing onerous restrictions but I'm sure it has been made known that the two "authorized" masses are enough to meet the needs of DFW Catholics. Very sad.

Carol Voss said...

In my geographically large, northeastern US diocese there are two Masses in Latin which are offered weekly at two diocesan churches. I put it that way because until recently, one Mass was the Ordinary Form in Latin or a Tridentine Low Mass (it alternated, depending on which priest had scheduled himself,) and one was the Tridentine Missa Cantata. Once in a blue moon a Mass in Latin is offered at other parishes, but these all seem to be unrelated to any feast, etc. that I can decipher.

I'm a revert to the Church and am just beginning to understand some of the diocesan politics involved, and some of the reluctance of some priests to even consider making it available on even a sporadic basis to the faithful. I must admit, that a few months after I returned to the Church, a friend who has been a lifelong Catholic told me about the Missa Cantata when I complained to him that the high church Anglican parish I had attended seemed "more Catholic" than the Roman Catholic parish I joined when I reverted.

I'm still not sure where my spirituality fits in with the EF, so pardon my rather unsophisticated observations. I do know that the EF Mass is awe-inspiring, and would probably attend it nearly exclusively if I didn't have to drive a fifty mile round trip to do so.

To my way of thinking, however, it seems that designating a parish or two for the EF is counterproductive to mainstreaming it. I think that each geographic area of the diocese should have a couple of parishes that have TLM as part of the Sunday Mass (and Holy Day Mass) schedule to avoid creation of lacunar special interest quasi-parishes. If every parish was required to do an EF Mass weekly, it would "catch on."

As far as I can see, probably most people who are dismissive of the EF Mass either recall bad sermons in English as the only thing they could understand from the recesses of childhood memories, or they have never actually been to an EF Mass.

mwk3 said...

I have been moving a bit over the last five years:

1. Archdiocese of New York: If I am not mistaken, old rite Mass is available at about a dozen locations throughout Manhattan each Sunday. I frequented Our Saviour at 9.00 am, and there was also the old indult Mass at St Agnes at 11.00. There are several others as well. In fact, Holy Innocents near Penn Station has the Tridentine Mass every day, and they do the Triduum all in the old rite.

2. Archdiocese of Edinburgh and St Andrews: There is a Fraternity parish in Edinburgh, and the priest travels around Scotland to say Mass on Sunday afternoons. There is now a monthly Mass at the University of St Andrews, of which the students are taking advantage. I think that one of the churches in North Berwick, Our Lady Star of the Sea, now has old rite Mass as well (if I'm not mistaken, that is the church of the newly appointed bishop, Mgr Robson).

3. Archdiocese of Baltimore. One parish in the more suburban part of the state now has a weekly old rite Mass on Sundays, growing slowly but surely. I know it is availabe in other places as well. It is popping up throughout that diocese, which was such a bastion of modernism in the 80s (the seminary did not get the moniker 'The Pink Palace' for nothing).

4. Archdiocese of Mechelen-Brussels: In Brussels there are four old rite Masses available each Sunday, one or two of which are offered at diocesan churches (the others being SSPX, FSSP, and ICKSP, respectively). So one can find the old rite at about four or five different locations in Brussels on Sunday.

Before the motu proprio I was always sympathetic to the old rite, but intimidated by it and knew very little of it, and I was intimidated. But the motu proprio opened the doors to the Mass being offered on a regular basis, and I took advantage of it. Once I started growing into it, I have never been the same since. It really has helped my relationship with Christ, and filled my life with grace. It is a pity that I cannot go more often, but the motu proprio has shed light even in the most obscure locations, and gives us hope that it can be offered in places in which it would have been unthinkable to do so even a few years ago. God bless our Holy Father, Benedict.

Mike Yannette said...

I live in Red Hook, NY, in Dutchess county,in the Archdiocese of NY. There are 16 TLM's scheduled in the archdiocese, listed in the Catholic NY paper. In Dutchess county there are two: Noon every Sunday at St. Sylvia's church in Tivoli, NY (commenter "backtothefuture" take note. The may also still be one at St. Joseph's in Poughkeepsie at Noon on Sundays.

Gregorian Mass said...

Diocease of Rockville Center, Brooklyn..Indult Mass locations continue, one stopped. LI no other new locations. Liturgical wasteland is still there. I hear nothing from Cardinal Dolan on the EF Mass even though many request it in St. Patricks Cathedral in NYC and it has not been celebrated there since 1996. The crowd was so large and on the street that the then Cardinal said "never again" or something close to that effect.

David L Alexander said...

"Anonymous said ... there are no regularly schedules such masses between the hours of 8 AM and 12:30 PM on Sundays. 07 July, 2012 12:30."

There is one at St John's in McLean at 12 noon. It is not an "add-on," but at a time already on the schedule.

Sid said...

The information at 06 July, 2012 21:16 listed as "Anonymous" and signed "Paul P" is misleading and potentially defamatory. By signing "Paul P", the writer leaves the impression that this note would be written by Fr. Paul Parkerson of the Diocese of Raleigh. This cannot be true.

Furthermore, the information about the Diocese of Raleigh is wrong. The two Sunday Masses in the EF are NOT in "very rural out of the way places" but rather in Rocky Mount and Dunn, both large towns. Dunn is located on I-95 and near I-40, and is 43 mins from Raleigh. Rocky Mount is located on I-95 and the interstate standard US 64, and is 57 mins from Raleigh. The writer knows perfectly well that to have MEFs one needs priests willing to learn and offer MEFs; the writer probably does not know that to have more MEFs one needs ALSO lay supporters of the MEF who do not make misleading statements

That in in the first sentence and and southern are misspelled, that this sentence is a run-on, and that there is a plug for the SSPX prove that Fr. Parkerson did not write this. The rest of content proves the same.

The report on the diocese of Charlotte is also intentionally misleading -- intentionally, because the writer knows the real situation and has omitted a fact: The MEF was being offered in Mount Airy every Sunday. The priest is in the process of being transferred to Our Lady of Grace in Greensboro, where it is reasonable to expect that the MEF in the future might be offered.

Frankly, a email such as this, that has in misleading statements, gives a bad reputation to Traditionalists, and it makes the possibility of more MEFs in North Carolina more remote.

Cavaliere said...

In the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis we have 4 regular Sunday TLM's at different parishes, two centrally located in the cities, one suburban and one more rural, all in the morning hours. We also just started another one, today in fact, on First Saturdays at 8 a.m. in another suburban parish. This will likely expand to a regular Sunday one as well depending on interest. Folks are also working to get another Mass going in the eastern metro area. We also had Confirmation in the EF last year which will be taking place again this year. There are quite a few young priests who have learned to say the TLM and more are interested. The college seminary, St. John Vianney, also had a TLM in its chapel a few months ago (was full) and will continue having them occasionally. There are also occasional TLM's in other locales. Mind you this is all in a Diocese where the Archbishop is not exactly someone, say like Cardinal Burke, who is an advocate of traditional liturgical forms.

jjr said...

Steubenville, OH. St. Peter's Church, first Sun. of each month. Franciscan Univ., Sung Mass one Sun.per month, Low Mass Sat.a.m. two or three times per month, during school year.

Anonymous said...

DIOCESE OF ROCKVILLE CENTER
LONG ISLAND

I have seen no significant signs of activity based upon SP in the Diocese of Rockville Centre, Long Island, New York. The only other two EF Masses are offered in Hempstead (Nassau County) and St. Matthew's in Dix Hills (Suffolk County).

Other than a thriving SSPX Chapel, St. Michael the Archangel in Farmingville, I know of no other.

Angelo

Bill M said...

In the Archdiocese of Seattle, WA, USA;
1 - North American Martyr's FSSP, Fr.'s Saguto, Harkins. Seattle

2 - at Sts. Peter & Paul, weekly TLM, Sundays at 7:00 pm, Fr. Kenneth Baker.(North American Martyr's -South Sound)

3 - Our Lady Star of the Sea,Bremerton, WA, Fr. Derek Lappe, twice a month. (Tuesday and Saturday)

4 - Our Lady of the Angels, Port Angeles, WA, Fr. Nathe twice monthly, (2nd and 4th Sundays)

5 - St. Francis Xavier, Toledo, WA.,alternating with Fr.'s Strazicich and Christiansen, 3rd Sunday of the month at 4:00pm.

TidewaterVA said...

In the Diocese of Richmond (VA) - (Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo) St. Benedict's Chapel in Chesapeake is now St. Benedict's Parish as of January 2012 with 2 full time FSSP priests. (The first FSSP priest arrived in 2006.) There are 2 daily and 2 Sunday Masses. The 10:30am Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata. It has doubled its growth since 2006 and a beautiful new church was completed in March of 2011. It offers all the sacraments in the EF with the full complement of catechism classes, men's and ladies' groups, Knights of the Altar, outreach to those in need and more. The choir is heavenly! This fall it will celebrate its 20th Anniversary! http://stbenedictschapel.org/

St. Joseph's Church in Richmond was founded in 1991 as a chapel exclusive for the Tridentine Rite. In 2002 is became a parish and this spring it became staffed by 2 FSSP priests. They, too, have the full complement of 2 daily Masses, 2 Sunday Masses (one a Missa Cantata), sacraments, etc. Indeed, they have a large physical complex with church, classrooms and acreage. http://stjosephrichmond.org/

Knight of Malta said...

Daniel Arseno,

Have you read Cather's Shadows on the Rock?

VERY profound reading for a man from Quebec! (or anywhere else!) Though Episcopal, Cather had a profound Catholic sensibility!

I have a limited signed first edition which I clutch in my hands!

Caroline K said...

I should be grateful for one TLM every Sunday in my city of Texas. I will not even name the city for fear to lose what we have. I guess the Bishop tolerates us. Many of the faithful have gone to other parishes, mostly to the SSPX. The attendance is not growing, maybe dwindling but the priest we have loves the TLM and is a blessing. One Sunday a NO priest said the TLM... obviously it was his first time saying it(it was probably an attempt to make fun of us). Hopefully it will get better one day...
The FSSP is surely needed.

Carl said...

In the Western Suburbs of Chicago, there have been two new locations that offer at least weekly traditional Masses St. John Vianney in Northlake (Chicago Arch), St. Odilo in Berwyn (Chicago), Sts. Peter and Paul in Naperville (Joliet) and I think there's one at St. Bernard in Joliet itself. The one in Naperville is either daily or near daily. I'm not sure whether any of these pre-existed the Motu Proprio.

In the Diocese of Joliet, Archbishop Sartain (now in Seattle) seemed more actively sympathetic than Bishop Conlon, but I don't think Bishop Conlon is opposed. The Auxiliary Bishop Siegel is certainly sympathetic, and has a refined liturgical and musical sensibility. I know many priests who are sympathetic, but have too much on their plate to learn how to do it.

Meem said...

In the Burlington Vt. diocese there is one diocesan TLM every Saturday morning and once a month on Sunday.This is due to the priest's desire to offer it and the Bishop's approval of it. The rest of the Masses and other parish activities/catechesis is N.O.

Gulielmus said...

The situation in the Archdiocese of Washington is more complex than described above, and while there is room for improvement, the negative tone is not accurate. There is, indeed, only one additional weekly TLM since SP, and occasional celebrations at parishes that have not scheduled it regularly. Except for Old St Mary's in downtown, the others, in what I would describe as near, medium-near, and far suburbs, are pretty sparsely attended.

What is overlooked in the criticism of Cardinal Wuerl, is that he has been assigning traditionally-minded young priests to the places where the TLM is celebrated, and has provided training in the TLM to priests of the Archdiocese who want it. Certainly he could do more-- but he has taken steps to ensure the continuation of the Mass and if the expansion is small, it seems to me that he's set the stage for a greater expansion to come. That young priests are being trained to celebrate the TLM and then assigned to places where they will regularly say it does not seem hostile to me.

Miles said...

Dear NC, I’m writing to witness and confirm everything said by Miguel Campos-Tovar, Filipe d’Avillez and Benedict Carter. I only add that the Traditional Mass is also celebrated in Fatima by the Franciscans Friars of the Immaculate at the Chapel of the City of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Monday to Saturday at 07.00 am; Sunday at 18.30 pm). As “Rorate-Caeli” knows well, the application of “Summorum Pontificum” in Portugal has been sabotaged constantly by the major part of the portuguese episcopate, mainly by the Cardinal-Patriarch of Lisbon, by the Archbishop of Braga (a diocese where its own immemorial rite is now almost completely forgotten) and by the Bishop of Setúbal. The Military Bishop also criticized publicly the return of the “Mass said in Latin” (I’m quoting his words), but I ignore if he ever refused any request concerning “Summorum Pontificum”. The situation in Portugal is indeed terrible and is justifying for a long time an urgent intervention of the “PCED” in order to correct that chaos.

Tom said...

It is important to recall that Pope Benedict XVI made it clear that offerings of Traditional Roman Masses would remain limited throughout the Church.

His Holiness declared that use of the "old Missal presupposes a certain degree of liturgical formation and some knowledge of the Latin language; neither of these is found very often.

"Already from these concrete presuppositions, it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful."

We also have the following from Rorate Caeli from September 12, 2008:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/09/in-his-first-public-comments-on.html

"In his first public comments on Summorum Pontificum since its publication, on July 7, 2007, Pope Benedict XVI had the following to say on the motu proprio in an interview granted during his Rome-Paris flight earlier today:

"This 'motu proprio' is simply an act of tolerance, with a pastoral objective, for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy.

"It is a small group, given that it presupposes a formation in Latin, a formation in a certain culture."

Therefore, posters who have noted that Summorum Pontificum has, for all practical purposes, been a dead letter are correct.

Tom

Anonymous said...

"Sid',

Your defamation of character is apparent, as a man or woman, who has the disposition of a non Christian person who is either extremely unhappy with himself or is bitter towards the world in general.
I am a dyslexic and I find it far below another humans dignity to point out that I have made grammatical mistakes to further advance your angry agenda.

I am not now, or never have pretended to be, as you ludicrously and childishly insinuate, that I am attempting to pawn myself off as a priest.
My chosen moniker happens to be one which the first and last initials begin with "P"s

Paul P.

Gravitas said...

Gulielmus:

The situation is exactly as Mr. Wolfe and I put it in Washington. I have been on the inside of this for years, have been in meetings with Wuerl's top people, and know exactly what is going on.

The growth has been completely beaten down. The "occasional" Masses you describe happen ONCE a year on the feast day of the church in a couple of places.

And Wuerl has denied both laity and priests' ask for him to confirm in the old rite, saying that he will not "split his flock in two" with two rites, not reading that the Pope said it's one rite with two forms. This leaves us having to go to Scranton, PA, about a six-hour drive away to confirm our children.

Wuerl was an enimemy of the Mass in Pittsburgh, and he's an enemy of it here in DC. I pray he gets "promoted" to the Vatican and leaves us to finally grow in our Faith soon.

Gulielmus said...

Gravitas,

I too have been deep on the inside of this issue for decades, with Cardinals Baum, Hickey, McCarrick and now Wuerl-- and as I said, there is room for improvement. But Cardinal Wuerl is far from alone in the Church for refusing to confirm in the Traditional Rite, is he? And given the number of dioceses where there is no TLM, and where no support of priests' study of it is the situation at best, I repeat that his provision of training and celebrants is not hostility. If the existing TLM's had more attendance and there were negative reactions to expansion that would be different. But they don't, and it isn't

Gravitas said...

"If the existing TLM's had more attendance and there were negative reactions to expansion that would be different. But they don't, and it isn't."

Really, so we have to wait for attendance to go up? That's the lamest liberal excuse ever. Build it and they will come. You don't wait for N.O. Catholics who have no exposure to it in their parishes to wake up one day and think, Gee, I want to go to a TLM! That's absurd.

Joseph said...

Gravitas,

I have lived in several cities and in none of them was there a strong demand for Mass in the EF. Probably under 1% of Catholics who regularly attend Mass in the USA have an interest in the EF. You would probably see some improvement if the EF was scheduled at better times but traditionalists need to accept the reality that most practicing Catholics are OK with the OF.

We need to fix the log in our own eyes before blaming the bishops for everything. The crazy right-wing ideologies, obsession with apparitions, and hostility towards the Magisterium that are often, quite correctly, associated with traditionalists do more to turn people away from the EF than bishops. People like Bishop Williamson and Solange Hertz keep more people from the EF than Cardinal Wuerl.

Growth in the EF will only come when it is more fully associated with rational thinking, holiness, and charity. We all need to do better.

St. Christoper said...

Cardinal Dolan advised that there are no USCCB plans to advance training in the TLM, or in learning about it in Catechism. So, no priests and no laity will be educated in the TLM. Bishops like B. Loverde (Arlington, VA) simply tolerate it, with few masses regularly scheduled (and priests have advised that a "traditional" outlook is not good for the career-minded clergy. The SP, for now, is a hot-house flower curiosity only.

Patrick Langan said...

There is a TLM in St Andrews once a month, Deo Gratias! But in Fife as a whole there has been no change. I must travel to St Andrews church Edinburgh. (FSSP) Father Emerson a 2 hour round trip to hear Mass. There is also in Edinburgh, St Leonard's and St Margaret's SSPX and Deo Volente we can all be one again.

Anonymous said...

In the Diocese of Memphis, we have the TLM on Sunday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday every week and also on every first Saturday. We draw people from three states, and are incredibly blessed to have several dedicated priests.

Gravitas said...

Oh Joseph how naive you are!

No one in Novus Ordo world knows who Wllismson even is let alone is scandalized by him enough to equate that to a dislike of the TLM. What an absurd game if Six Degrees to Kevin Bacon you're playing.

Truth in Pittsburgh said...

Gaius's assessment of the situation in the Diocese of Pittsburgh is not entirely accurate. Since SP the Diocese has appointed a full time chaplain for the Latin Mass Community and the faithful now have the benefit of daily mass. The current problems in the community have little to do with institutional hostility towards the traditional mass and more to do with the erratic behavior of the former chaplain. The former "long-time chaplain" was removed because he hired a thug to assault a parishioner in the sacristy and then attempted to steal thousands of dollars worth of property that belonged to the non-profit corporation that had been supporting the Latin Mass in Pittsburgh for nearly twenty years (the property has since been returned to its rightful owner). That corporation did not leave the parish, it was thrown out after the assault and theft. A very unfortunate situation. The Diocese thoroughly investigated this matter over the course of the past twelve months and the former chaplain was removed.

The current chaplain learned the traditional mass after SP, is fluent in Latin, and is an experienced and senior pastor and is delighted with his new assignment.

There is also an occasional Latin Mass at St. Titus Church in Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, also in the Diocese of Pittsburgh, served by priests of the Institute of Christ the King and sponsored by the Knights of Columbus. They have an annual mass and dinner to celebrate the Battle of Lepanto and they recently had a mass in honor of Blessed Karl of Austria. Their events are reported on here at Rorate.

The SSPX also has an active chapel in Pittsburgh with about 250 members and counting. Due to the behavior of the former "long-time chaplain" they have had an influx of new members over the past twelve months, people that formerly attended the diocesan sponsored mass.

Rich said...

Nothing on the radar screen here in College Station, TX, the conservative community that Panned Parenthood dubs :"The Most-Anti-Choice Community in the USA"....and we wear that moniker like a badge.

We have some TLMs in the general vicinity, but they are all over an hour away. Too long a drive for families.

Until then, we suffer silently with the guitars and harmonicas (yeah, not kidding).

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

In the Philippines:

BEFORE SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM:

Three regularly scheduled every-Sunday indult TLM's in two dioceses (Cubao and Bacolod) and one archdiocese (Jaro). A fourth diocese (Imus) had an indult for every Sunday TLM but the Mass itself was neither regularly scheduled nor regularly celebrated in the same place. In a fifth diocese (Tagbilaran) a priest had an indult for the TLM but only for private Mass.

Between 1992 and 2007 there were 7 reported Pontifical Masses (none of them Solemn) according to the 1962 Missal, but only 1 or 2 of these were decently celebrated with proper rubrics. (This number does not include the Masses offered by Bp. Salvador Lazo for the SSPX.)

AFTER SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM:

Fifteen regularly-scheduled every Sunday indult TLM's, although one of these is occasionally replaced with a Novus Ordo without prior notice.

Since September 14, 2007 there have been at least five Solemn Pontifical Masses, one confirmation according to the pre-Conciliar rite, one Solemn Mass in the presence of a bishop, and around a dozen Low / Sung Masses offered by bishops.

Anonymous said...

The Archdiocese of Denver had had the FSSP here for about 12 years and they are now officially a parish...but they are in Littleton so those farther away from Denver have little access.

Some of the priests are more open to EF though and one parish is activiely seeking a retired priest to come and live there and offer it daily. It is hard to find one though.

BUT---our new 33 year old parochial vicar who has only been with us a week took care to learn the TLM on his own in seminary and is going to offer it on Monday mornings--his day off but he does not (thank God) take a day off from offering the Holy Sacrifice. Not sure when this will begin as they are trying to determine the time. But it looks like we will have at least a weekly low Mass.

At one time the FSSP priests make the trip to my town once or twice a month but stopped 2 years ago. We are currently donating to the FSSP seminary burse for their seminary in hopes that we may have a full time TLM priest.

There is a big SSPX church east of Denver and a mission chapel in northern Colorado. If/when relations with Rome are normalized, I would consider checking them out but I will not go into schism, period.

Gulielmus said...

Gravitas,

Yes, I guess you're right. I, who probably have been as involved in the movement to expand the availability of the TLM in Washington since 1970 as anyone, who directly advocated for it face to face with four Cardinals, and who am completely aware of the complex nature of such advocacy, am a "liberal" because I recognize that the failure of a too-complacent TLM community to attract more Catholics is a factor in all four of those Cardinals resisting expansion. Should it be? No. But it is. So I'd rather work to overcome that than snipe and insult and complain to get my way.

The fact remains that while more can and should be happening in DC, in comparison with many parts of the world there are signs of hope. None more so than the recent transfer of young Father Kevin Regan, a much-respected priest who wants to celebrate the TLM, to a parish where he will be able to do so.

No one was more hostile to the TLM than Cardinal Hickey, although that being the days of the indult, he didn't really address it much. McCarrick's regime initially saw some expansion, from one to three weekly Masses, and he was met with scorn, mockery, and derision for not doing more. That was counter-productive, to say the least, and was a direct cause of the end of more expansion. Wuerl has indeed been far from warm, but again, he pays for training and provides priests, something many traditionalists in the country would weep with joy for. It's not what it should be here, yet. But it's better than many places, and even if it's unintentional, Wuerl's policy is sowing seeds of a better future.

P.K.T.P. said...

Dear Mr. Palad:

My impression from my number-watching is that, in the Philippines, there was very little provision on any regular basis for the T.L.M. before 2000. There may have been periods before 2000 when there was an every-Su. Mass in one diocese but not for any extended period. Between 2000 and 2007, the situation in the Philippines was very much like that in my own country, Canada. In other words, there would be short periods of expansion followed by short periods of decline, up and down like a see-saw. This makes it difficult to speak of a trend over the entire period. In Canada, the number of dioceses having every-Sunday T.L.M.s between 1989 and about 2002 varied between nine and thirteen. It would go up to thirteen and then back to nine, and then up to twelve or thirteen--and then back to nine. During this same period, there was a steady and impressive growth in the U.S.A. (or there was, at least, between 1988 and 1994 and then at a slower rate to about 2000.

My impression is that the situation has improved overall in the Philippines since S.P. but that there have been temporary setbacks, even great disappointments, only to be followed by more growth. Overall, yes, I agree with you that the situation has seen a substantial improvement. But I would not say that there has been steady and sure growth. Still, the Philippines has fared better than almost any other country overall since 2007.

Poland is another country which has fared well under S.P. not just in its first year (to July, 2008) but to the present. My sense of things is that the rate of growth there has declined substantially in the last few months; however, there still *is* a discernible rate of *growth*. In most countries, I see no sure growth since autumn, 2008, or very little.

Here in Canada, for a short time, under S.P., we soared to 18 dioceses having the T.L.M. every Sunday. Then we lost Winnipeg and Antigonish. Then we regained Winnipeg. Then we lost Moncton. Then we regained Moncton. There is now hope that we shall gain again a diocese in Nova Scotia. Back and forth it goes, like a yo-yo. What we need is PERMANENT AND SURE GROWTH. The new Anglican Use priests will likely help a bit if Rome EVER allows them actually to be ordained. On and on it goes.

But I must say that the S.S.P.X is not exactly making the difference. It offers the T.L.M. every Sunday in the same number of dioceses today as it did ten or fifteen years ago.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Anon. from Memphis:

Could you please update me on the situation in Nashville? What a total disaster that Diocese has been for the T.L.M.

P.K.T.P.

Thorin said...

In the Diocese of Cleveland, there are three churches in Cleveland that offer the Latin Mass every Sunday, one in Akron that offers the Latin Mass every Sunday, plus a handful of churches that offer the Latin Mass occasionally.

There has long been at least one church in Cleveland and one in Akron offering the Latin Mass every Sunday. The other Masses were added after the motu proprio. (In addition, it is rumored that the reason the Bishop reversed the recommendation to close one of the Cleveland churches was because he wanted there to be a church on the west side of the city with a regular Latin Mass.)

P.K.T.P. said...

Meem:

I have recently contacted your celebrant in St. Albans, Vermont. The story is that he plans to increase the one Mass per Sunday to the every-Sunday basis. This was supposed to happen this very month but it will now be delayed some months more.

We have had a similar situation in the Diocese of Salina, where the promise of an every-Su. T.L.M. has now been delayed and delayed and delayed for a grand total of more than two years.

When will the Diocese of Salina have an every-Sunday T.L.M.? How about never. Would never be a good time? Let's put down never. Write it out carefully: we, the Diocese of Salina, agree to start our first every-Sunday T.L.M. never.

Meanwhile, Msgr. Pozzo is too busy making visitations to the Institute of the Good Shepherd and planning a revolutionisation of our Mass actually to get up off his derriere and pick up the telephone to talk to some of these obstructive bishops. Why so? It's because he's on their side. His old boss was far too busy sabotaging the negotiations with the S.S.P.X and cheating the TAC to talk to any of the obstructive bishops. After a long day of cheating the TAC priests, he found that this hard work really tired him out. Cheating people all day long can be exhausting. Take one aspirin and retire early.

If Benedict XVI is serious about "Summorum Pontificum", he will need to expand the P.C.E.D., detach it from Müller the Trad-hater, and include in it committees which are dedicated to particular tasks, like dealing with bishops who try to deprive their subjects of Latin Masses. Nothing is being done about the bishops. These Roman curialists are just playing us for fools.

P.K.T.P.

My 2c worth. said...

"Wuerl's policy is sowing seeds of a better future." I would never be looking for any amount of good fruit from that bad tree. I lived in the orchard he just left and he absolutely devastated it and there are only about 3 places in the entire Pittsburgh area to find a real Catholic Mass. Before Vatican II there was a Catholic church on nearly every block in some suburbs and the pews were packed. So, no...nothing good could ever come from the tree of Bishop Donald Wuerl. That would be entirely contradictory to the Gospel of Matthew.

I don't know why anybody would be looking for flourishing Catholicism in a Novus Ordo Protestant world. Those there who would be Catholic have fled long ago. Some are who you see in mostly empty pews at the Latin Masses. Not the SSPX chapels of course and not in some of the FSSP locations like in Sacramento. Those who did not long ago flee are more than happy to remain Protestant pewsitters who doubtless expect to enter Heaven via the wide gate offered by the Conciliar Church.

Even if good priests are no longer sidelined by false accusations of sexual misconduct as punishment for offering the Catholic Mass or sent to some hell hole on the Texas border of Mexico for Catholic preaching from the pulpit, there just aren't enough real Catholics left to fill pews at Latin Masses. Even some who have cried and cried for the Catholic Mass rarely go now that they can. Why? Because it is too inconvenient for them if it is across town. They forget that Sunday belongs to God and prefer a morning Novus Ordo service that doesn't cut into "their" day. Yet those who really know the Faith and know what the Mass is think nothing of traveling several hours to get to the sacrificial Mass of reparation established by Jesus Christ.

The only way we will see a flourishing of Catholicism is when the Consecration to Russia is finally made. Our Lady said so. So no use looking for it before then.

Theophilus said...

Brentwood Diocese, UK

SP has had only a minimal impact here because very few lay people know anything about it. There are a few more EF celebrations each month, which is an improvement - but only one EF Mass each Sunday in the whole diocese. There are a couple of other Sunday EF masses at different locations once a month or so. Most people who are attached to the TLM head into Central London and go to the Oratory or Spanish Place. There seems to be little or no interest in the EF amongst the priests of the diocese - or maybe they are keeping their heads down until we get a new (and maybe more sympathetic?) bishop??

Daniel said...

"His Holiness declared that use of the "old Missal presupposes a certain degree of liturgical formation and some knowledge of the Latin language; neither of these is found very often.

"Already from these concrete presuppositions, it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful."

We also have the following from Rorate Caeli from September 12, 2008:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/09/in-his-first-public-comments-on.html

"In his first public comments on Summorum Pontificum since its publication, on July 7, 2007, Pope Benedict XVI had the following to say on the motu proprio in an interview granted during his Rome-Paris flight earlier today:

"This 'motu proprio' is simply an act of tolerance, with a pastoral objective, for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy.

"It is a small group, given that it presupposes a formation in Latin, a formation in a certain culture."

Given that so many people, including Church officials, have documented that TLM congregations are popluated overwhelmingly by young Catholics, should the Vatican do much, much more than merely claim that the motu proprio was "simply an act of tolerance, with a pastoral objective, for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy.

"It is a small group, given that it presupposes a formation in Latin, a formation in a certain culture."

Pray for the pope. said...

"This 'motu proprio' is simply an act of tolerance, with a pastoral objective, for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy."

He really said that? So that means two popes in a row making concessionary comments about Mass. do they really not know the difference between the Mass and the New Order of Mass??? The alternative would be that they do(did) know and just don't care. Dang, but that terrifies me. Not for us. For them.

TidewaterVA said...

A clarification: St. Benedict's Parish, Chesapeake, VA staffed by FSSP doubled its parishioners to over 550 individuals in 195 families since 2006. The majority are young couples having large families. This is a Navy town so the turn over every year is significant but still we grow.

Carl said...

To those of you in D.C., are things better or worse under Cardinal Wuerl than they were under McCarrick?

M. K. said...

In my home diocese (Fall River, Massachusetts), the situation since SP seems to have improved only slightly. Before SP, there was one diocesan indult offered on Sundays in a small chapel on Cape Cod, which had begun in 2001. That Mass continued after SP and was moved in 2009 to a new and larger location, St. Francis Xavier Church in Hyannis. Unfortunately, this remains the only Sunday TLM in the Diocese - the larger cities and population centers (e.g., New Bedford and Fall River) have nothing; some go to churches in the Archdiocese of Boston or the Diocese of Providence, which is still a long way to go for most.

There have been a couple of newer initiatives to begin weekday TLMs in the New Bedford area; St. Francis Xavier Church in Acushnet has one every Thursday evening, and the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate advertise a weekly Friday evening TLM in their downtown chapel. Another New Bedford church, St. Anthony of Padua, had a 1st Saturday TLM but that was discontinued when the pastor who started it was transferred. Not much growth, in other words, but still more than we had before SP.

My sense is that the momentum that would be needed for more growth to occur just isn't there at the moment. There doesn't seem to be much interest among the diocesan clergy or the laity, most of whom probably haven't heard of SP. As noted above, some who do want the TLM simply go to Sunday Masses in the neighboring dioceses, which has the side effect of reducing potential pressure to offer the TLM locally. I'm grateful for the small changes we've seen, but I would still like to see action on the ground.

Anonymous said...

Joliet IL. FSSP is currently at St. Bernard's in Joliet for 12:00 PM Sunday Mass and that priest does double duty with St. Peter & Paul in Naperville for 5:30 PM Sunday Mass. He also has daily Mass in Naperville around 12:30 PM.

With several low attendance parishes and probably a few vacant ones in Joliet, the FSSP has not been offered a parish in the diocese after nearly 4 years of service. That pretty much sums it up. Let's pray they can work something out to stay in Joliet permanently.

Brian said...

Tidewater VA said:

In the Diocese of Richmond (VA) - (Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo) St. Benedict's Chapel in Chesapeake is now St. Benedict's Parish as of January 2012 with 2 full time FSSP priests. (The first FSSP priest arrived in 2006.) There are 2 daily and 2 Sunday Masses. The 10:30am Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata. It has doubled its growth since 2006 and a beautiful new church was completed in March of 2011. It offers all the sacraments in the EF with the full complement of catechism classes, men's and ladies' groups, Knights of the Altar, outreach to those in need and more. The choir is heavenly! This fall it will celebrate its 20th Anniversary! http://stbenedictschapel.org/

St. Joseph's Church in Richmond was founded in 1991 as a chapel exclusive for the Tridentine Rite. In 2002 is became a parish and this spring it became staffed by 2 FSSP priests. They, too, have the full complement of 2 daily Masses, 2 Sunday Masses (one a Missa Cantata), sacraments, etc. Indeed, they have a large physical complex with church, classrooms and acreage.


According to the dates you provide for these two churches, both of them predate Summorum Pontificum. So it sounds like no new Latin Masses since 2007.

PaulM said...

In the Diocese of Lansing, MI prior to SP there were two every Sunday TLMs (one by a diocesan priest, and the other by a religious priest).
The new bishop, much more friendly to the TLM, having celebrated it himself, has brought it to three every Sunday TLMs and one monthly across the diocese. His methodology has been to have one in every corner of the diocese. For most people, however, this means a long drive (an hour). I'm not sure of the particular influence of SP on this change, because this move has been from the bishop and not from the pastors and the people (as SP allows for).
We have been very blessed, but many of us wish for more.
Three of the sites are attached to a parish, while the fourth, when it becomes large enough, will be the first solely TLM parish in the state of Michigan.
The bishop has celebrated multiple Confirmation ceremonies for the various communities and has encouraged the recent ordinands to learn it. One of the priests ordained in 2010 has just recently finished learning the Missa Cantata, and we look forward to having more of that to come. Many of the Masses offered are Low Masses, which I personally find disappointing, and those priests who could advance don't.
I for one wish that the bishop would require a quarter of the presbyterate (at the least) to learn the TLM and offer it Sunday and three weekdays (to start with).

Paul

Jean Francois said...

Meanwhile, Msgr. Pozzo is too busy making visitations to the Institute of the Good Shepherd and planning a revolutionisation of our Mass actually to get up off his derriere and pick up the telephone to talk to some of these obstructive bishops. Why so? It's because he's on their side. His old boss was far too busy sabotaging the negotiations with the S.S.P.X and cheating the TAC to talk to any of the obstructive bishops. After a long day of cheating the TAC priests, he found that this hard work really tired him out. Cheating people all day long can be exhausting. Take one aspirin and retire early.

I've dealt personally with Msgr. Pozzo and I should caution you against committing the sin of detraction lest you spend your eternity in the company of those you despise most.

Gravitas said...

Carl, they are basically the same. There is almost no change whatsoever.

Tracy Hummel said...

Sorry, I missed a location in the diocese of Ft. Worth: the College of St. Thomas more has the TLM regularly. It is said alternatively by a TOR priest, an FSSP priest and a CFR priest. That's good news but it still is a small increase in 5 years since SP and no parish priests seem to be saying it in their parishes.

dondi gutierrez said...

Diocese of St. Petersburg has traditional mass in Pinellas and Pack county. None in Tampa area, although a priest has been prevented from a new start up. Bishop here is a hindrance to expansion of traditional mass.

NIANTIC said...

In order to increase exposure to the TLM the ideal process would be in my opinion be the following:
1) In every parish with more than one Sunday Mass, one Mass to be designated the TLM.
2)All priests, except those close to retirement, should be mandated to learn how to offer the TLM.
3) An intensive educational project to be instituted to teach the laity the meaning of the TLM.
4) The local Bishop(s) to offer the TLM on a regular basis around the Diocese.
5) The Holy Father in Rome to offer the TLM on a regular basis.

This would of course take some time to completely implement. It also would need the encouragement and insistence from Rome with regular serious follow up.

This is my dream for the glory of the TLM around the world and salvation of souls. May it happen one day soon.
Pax Christi.

Josue Pedraza said...

The Archdiocese of San Antonio has two traditional latin masses. One offered by a FSSPX priest and one offered by three very good diocesan priests.

I'm so thankful to God that we have this mass on saturdays and sundays and also on holy days of obligation. I've been very busy learning how to serve at this mass, learning sacristy work, and even learning our gregorian chant for the schola (the days I'm not serving of course).

Our Fr. M. is a beautiful priest. He'll hear confessions before and after mass and bless sacramentals according to the old books and in Latin! This is truly a God send for those in San Antonio who are attached to the ancient rite and good liturgy.

At the beginning of this year (first of January) I attend my first TLM and I've never gone back to a NO for a Sunday mass or holy day of obligation since! Long may it stay here in San Antonio!

Mary said...

Gravitas said
"None more so than the recent transfer of young Father Kevin Regan, a much-respected priest who wants to celebrate the TLM, to a parish where he will be able to do so. "

I was wondering about our new p.v. God willing he will be able to learn".

I do admit to often wishing we lived on the other side of the Potomac so as to be able to attend daily TLM masses. As it stands, No VA. churches have been a God-send on Holy Days of Obligation.

In my home diocese, Columbus, OH, there is still only one church offering the TLM in the entire diocese. It is a wonderful parish with the TLM at a decent Sunday morning hour and daily mass twice a week and first Fridays and Saturdays. There are young priests interested and trained to say the TLM but no expansion yet that I have heard of, which my guess is coming from the chancery. The community is a good size and I had heard there were those who requested the bishop allow an all TLM parish, but that request was refused.
The bishop has confirmed in the TLM though so if the situation in DC is the same when time for our youngest, that will be another option.

I must say I don't understand the stance of a bishop claiming he does not want a different expression of the Roman rite. If the (arch)diocese has Eastern Catholics, there are sacraments being offered in an eastern rite or rites.

I am just grateful to have found the TLM and to be able to attend mass every Sunday and all Holy Days. If/when we have to move, availability of the TLM will be at the top of the list.

Adam said...

Archdiocese of Birmingham, UK

At my local Parish there is a weekly Low Mass, and two Annual Solemn High Masses (the Patronal Feast of Ss John Fisher and Thomas Moore, and a Solemn High Requiem Mass on Remembrance Sunday on or around 11/11) which are all well attended.

At the Birmingham Oratory there is a weekly Solemn High Mass as the principal Mass on Sundays, as well as a Solemn High Mass or Low Mass for all Holy Days of Obligation or specific feasts (such as the Epiphany, Christmas, Corpus Christi, Ash Wednesday etc) which is extremely well attended.

There are also other weekly/monthly Low Masses throughout the Diocese, with a very active community mainly consisting of 16-35 year olds with a small section being of the 60+ age bracket.


All in all I think it is going well in the Archdiocese!

Skeptical said...

Archdiocese of Birmingham, UK

At my local Parish there is a weekly Low Mass, and two Annual Solemn High Masses (the Patronal Feast of Ss John Fisher and Thomas Moore, and a Solemn High Requiem Mass on Remembrance Sunday on or around 11/11) which are all well attended.

At the Birmingham Oratory there is a weekly Solemn High Mass as the principal Mass on Sundays, as well as a Solemn High Mass or Low Mass for all Holy Days of Obligation or specific feasts (such as the Epiphany, Christmas, Corpus Christi, Ash Wednesday etc) which is extremely well attended.

There are also other weekly/monthly Low Masses throughout the Diocese, with a very active community mainly consisting of 16-35 year olds with a small section being of the 60+ age bracket.


All in all I think it is going well in the Archdiocese!

Name/URL said...

Does anyone know why the date 7 7 7was chosen? PKTP has said the pope likes to choose meaningful dates - so I'm just wondering if there was a (religious) significance... and predict 666x222 for the signing between fellay and benedict

Gregorian Mass said...

It still escapes me how Moto Proprios, Apostolic Constitutions (eg. Veterum Sapientia) are not distributed with instructions to every Diocease and every parish worldwide. We have a Pope who says tthings that every Catholic should know...This should change..

Pamela said...

Someone already updated on the DFW status. But I want to say that I attended Mass today at the new TLM community in Dallas for the first time. As a young Catholic who has never been exposed before, I can say that SP has been a blessing to my life and my family's and has given us exposure and a greater appreciation for the old rite. Sadly it's over an hour away so we will not be going as often as we like but are so grateful for the FSSP. I suspect that it's not done more because priests don't know how and acolytes aren't trained! (maybe I'm naive). I pray that exposure will be enough to reverse most of the modernism of the NO at least. B16 has set a good example.

Build upon the Rock said...

In the Archdiocese of Washington the TLM is offered every Sunday at 9:30 at Saint Francis Xavier's Parish, St. Mary's County Maryland. St. Francis' has the oldest extant Catholic church building in the original colonies and is one of the oldest parishes, celebrating this year 350 years since the building of the first church in 1662. This makes a fifth church in the archdiocese with a regular Sunday TLM.

The post-SP limitation on the TLM is not principally found in the priest's ability to offer the Mass. The limitation is in the restriction implicit to SP regarding "ordinary" and "extraordinary". The priest does not have a basis in the legislation for officially encouraging people to prefer the old form to the new. Both the individual priest and the individual lay faithful are permitted to prefer the usus antiquior, but there is no basis (yet) in contemporary legislation for subordinating the new to the old as a matter of public good. As a matter of public good the old is ordered to serve the new for its enrichment.

The general advance for the TLM found in SP is that the old was recognized as having something to teach the new. (This was recognized along with the TLM's right to continue to exist among those who are willing to carry it forward). That the old is lastingly superior to the new is not found in Summorum Pontificum.

Tom said...

"Someone already updated on the DFW status. I suspect that it's not done more because priests don't know how and acolytes aren't trained! (maybe I'm naive)."

I asked a priest of the diocese whether he would offer the TLM.

He declared that Latin Masses were harmful to his spirituality.

He also insisted that only Catholics who were born prior to Vatican II were permitted to assist at TLMs...I'm serious...he made that claim.

A Dallas priest who played a key role in the diocese informed me that the Church had moved on in regard to the TLM.

"The old Latin Mass was in major need of reforms and was replaced with the New Mass."

One priest informed me that "when the Pope orders us to say the Mass in Latin, we will."

Finally, a Dallas priest told me that "they want me to concern myself with my ministry, not the Latin Mass. Sorry."

Tom

Augustinus said...

"That the old is lastingly superior to the new is not found in Summorum Pontificum."

I certainly wouldn't expect the current Pontiff to say this.

Tom said...

"This 'motu proprio' is simply an act of tolerance, with a pastoral objective, for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy."
----------------------

He really said that?
----------------------

That is what Rorate Caeli reported.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/09/in-his-first-public-comments-on.html

Tom

Mountaineer said...

Someone said on this combox that Manhattan has TWELVE TLM's every Sunday. Wish it were true, but it's not. Manhattan has four churches with one every Sunday TLM each and in one of these there is also daily TLM. Brooklyn has two every Sunday TLM's, and one in the Bronx, making a total of seven every-Sunday TLM's in NYC.

An eighth every-Sunday TLM was recently discontinued.

Anonymous said...

In yuma az, it's novu ordo central, the happy clappy catholics reign supreme here, motu propio? I dont think the priests are even aware of such thing here.

Anonymous said...

In the diocese of Winnipeg and St Boniface (Manitoba Canada) there is now one TLM offered by a Jesuit priest on Sundays at St Anne's Church.
It has been going on for almost one year. Before that I was informed that the Bishop told people who expressed interest in the TLM to attend the SSPX chapel.
I don't go to the diocese sponsored Mass, I have supported the SSPX since 1990 and will keep doing so.
This part of Canada is a Catholic wasteland, which is sad because there is a significant Catholic heritage here and much potential.
But it was all squandered after V2.

Anonymous said...

notice the date of SP... 7/7/7. the number 7 symbolizes spiritual perfection in the Bible. It's obvious the Holy Spirit is trying to give the Church a hint of where to find a source of ' spiritual perfection',the TLM

Tom said...

NIANTIC said...

"In order to increase exposure to the TLM the ideal process would be in my opinion be the following:

5) The Holy Father in Rome to offer the TLM on a regular basis."

I agree with that point.

But is it Rome's goal to acquaint the 99.9 percent of Latin Church Catholics with the Traditional Roman Mass?

From the actions and words of our Pope, Cardinals and bishops, I don't believe that the above is their goal.

1. His Holiness declared that Summorum Pontificum was merely an act of "tolerance" aimed at a "small group" of Catholics who had expressed interested in the TLM.

2. Pope Benedict XVI has not offered the Traditional Roman Mass.

How could a Pope who wished to promote the TLM to the hilt not offer the TLM?

3. Many "conservative" Cardinals, archbishops and bishops have stated that the Novus Ordo is superior to the TLM.

They have made it clear that they are not interested in the TLM.

4. Cardinals Burke and Koch have stated that it's the Holy Father's plan to fuse the TLM and Novus Ordo into a hybrid rite.

Raymond Cardinal Burke said that what Pope Benedict XVI "has in mind is that this mutual enrichment would seem to naturally produce a new form of the Roman rite — the reform of the reform, if we may — all of which I would welcome and look forward to its advent.”

Kurt Cardinal Koch said that "Pope Benedict knows well that, in the long term, we cannot stop at a coexistence between the ordinary form and the extraordinary form of the Roman rite, but that in the future the church naturally will once again need a common rite."

It is clear that we are headed to a hybrid rite.

We are governed by "men of the Council."

The Novus Ordo is the great symbol of the Council.

The Novus Ordo is their child.

But they are aware that 40+ years of Novus Ordoism has emptied pews.

However, as men of the Council, they are unable to return to the TLM.

They refuse to return to the Mass of their youth.

Therefore, in their view, the only way forward for the Latin Church is to concoct a new New Mass.

One thing is certain: Kurt Cardinal Koch is correct in that "in the long term, we cannot stop at a coexistence between the ordinary form and the extraordinary form of the Roman rite, but that in the future the church naturally will once again need a common rite."

The TLM and Novus Ordo are very different liturgies.

We cannot parishes that split into TLM and Novus Ordo Catholics.

Altar girls forbidden at 9:00 A.M TLM Mass...allowed at 10:30 A.M. Novus Ordo Mass.

Suits and ties and headcoverings at 9:00 A.M...T-shirts, flip-flops and immodest clothing at 10:30 A.M.

EMs forbidden...EMs abound.

Communion in the hand forbidden...Communion in the hand the norm.

Gregorian Chant...Marty Haugen music.

Yes, our key Churchmen will move us to a hybrid rite.

As long as "men of the Council" govern us, the TLM will never see the light of day as the primary Mass of the Latin Mass.

Tom

Randy said...

7/7/7. the number 7 symbolizes spiritual fufillment in scripture. The Holy Spirit is telling the Church where's the key to spiritual fufillment. The TLM. There was a Christian rockband ( Stryper ) that pasted the number 777 all over their insturments, saying that the number symbolizes spiritual perfection.

Randy said...

7/7/7. the number 7 symbolizes spiritual fufillment in scripture. The Holy Spirit is telling the Church where's the key to spiritual fufillment. The TLM. There was a Christian rockband ( Stryper ) that pasted the number 777 all over their insturments, saying that the number symbolizes spiritual perfection.

Anonymous said...

The Archdiocese of Portland, Oregon has a couple of TLM's. One on the coast and another in Portland. These locations are 300-400 miles away from us in Southern Oregon. I know of a number of parishoners down here who have requested it year after year. A great young priest came in who could offer it last year. He gave wonderful homilies that the kids loved but he became persona non grata very quickly and was pushed out. I've reached a point that if there was an SSPX here, I would go to it because I am so sick of the twangy music and the lack of respect for the Real Presence.

Anonymous said...

Bishop Zubik in the Pittsburgh Diocese has responded quite well to SP. We now have a DAILY TLM and the new chaplain was a classmate of the bishop who has held many high level assignments in the diocese. He had not regularly offered the TLM until the bishop suddenly gave him his current assignment. Bishop Zubik does our Confirmations in the traditional rite. The bishop would love to see the TLM expanded, but there are not enough priests now who can offer the Mass - we have difficulty finding priests to substitute or fill in. The Traditional Latin Mass Community is based in Holy Wisdom Parish, and the pastor is a top ranking member of the Chancery. Our new auxiliary bishop loves the TLM and he was responsible for bringing a Traditional Carmelite group to his former diocese before being assigned here. The TLM community is growing and interest in the TLM is also increasing. Our community, unfortunately, has had some serious problems over the past year, but the bishop is dealing with them, and gradually, everyone is beginning to understand that these problems were not due to the Community in general or the people who are attracted to the TLM, which is how the problems were first perceived. We'll get through this and be a real asset to the diocese as a whole. SP has had a very, very positive effect here.

I would like to also say that I know of a number of bishops who would love to have more priests to serve the TLM Communities in their dioceses, but they just don't have the manpower. They are grappling with severe - and I mean severe - priest shortages. The "mission" areas of the south are particularly hard hit, because at the same time as the number of priests is declining, their Catholic populations are expanding - big time. Bishops have not yet come to see the TLM movement as a big part of the solution to their problems. They just see us as a relatively small issue, because our populations are small, and they have bigger fires to put out at present. It is up to us to let the bishops know, as Cdl Burke pointed out, how we in the TLM Communities can be a powerful force in the new evangelization that is underway.

TidewaterVa said...

In response to Brian said:
According to the dates you provide for these two churches, both of them predate Summorum Pontificum. So it sounds like no new Latin Masses since 2007.

St. Benedict's Chapel, as it was originally called, only had a Sunday Mass at the start in 1992, a second Sunday Mass was added later when the number of Mass goers increased. For 13 years that was it and Holy Days - no daily Mass,no Triduum,very little parish life. A fine Benedictine retired priest held the fort so to speak until he was 89 years old. He died less than 4 months after the first FSSP priest arrived in 2006. At that time daily Mass and all the extras including the building of the new church were initiated. The second FSSP priest arrived in 2007.

SP had a decided impact for the priests as well as the laity. No longer were we viewed as malcontents and to the new and younger people who came they didn't have any thought of being stigmatized. It can be said that having grown up with Spanish, Folk and such Masses that this was just another one. They, providentially, found out differently.


St. Joseph's in Richmond had a similar series of steps to go from a Sunday Only chapel to a parish.

If the object is to "save" the Ancient Mass, then to reach and teach a new generation takes just that - a generation or two. SP makes it possible to raise the next generation that grows to adulthood with the Old Mass in a parish. The last one to do so is fast getting older and will be gone.

P.K.T.P. said...

Mountaineer:

Are you trying to say that the Canons Regular no longer offer every-Su. Masses in West Virginia? Please tell me that this isn't true. That would be a total disaster.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Jean Francois:

The sin of detraction? Then you admit that the allegations are true?

Whether it's Pozzo or his undersecretary or maybe the janitor who sweeps the floors at the P.C.E.D., someone is not dealing with the bishops. There are scores of outstanding petitions and they are getting nowhere. At this rate of progress, the petitioners, and in some cases I mean this seriously, will easily die of advanced age before their petitons can be addressed. Perhaps they could pull some useless bureaucrats out of the many dicasteries created by Paul VI and put them to work manning the telephones over at the P.C.E.D. The local bishops laugh at Pozzo and his team. They know how to delay him to death. NO PROGRESS is occurring. S.P. is a dead letter, as so many of these testimonies here prove. I am seeing a net loss of dioceses having every-Sunday T.L.M.s over the last year. Is Pozzo asking bishop to discontinue existing Masses? He might as well be.

P.K.T.P.

Anonymous said...

From the very beginning, our Bishop made known that he does not approve of the reintroduction of the TLM under the Motu Proprio. In 2007 we already had 2 places where TLM was available. These are at the largest metropolitan area of the state. Since 2007, one additional TLM was authorized at a very small, rural parish.

This state is mostly Protestant. Under the previous Bishop there were practically no new vocations. Many of our priests are from abroad. Our pastor, from abroad, indicated that he would not dare to say a TLM without special permission from our Bishop and he was sure the Bishop would not approve.

An informal survey of our parish indicates there is interest in having Mass in the EF, however a majority are not interested, some are even hostile to the introduction of a Latin Mass (OF or EF) even on a week day.

Without a change of heart by the bishop the prospects for a TLM in our part of the USA (Virginia) is not very good.

Alsaticus said...

dear P.K.T.P.

Indeed the C.E.D. is the exact clone of P.C.E.D. for doing nothing to implement the 2007 motu proprio.
S.P. was already giving a final say to the Pontifical commission in order to supersede a diocesan bishop's opposition. Cardinal Hoyos sent a couple of letters in 2008 and confessed an enormous pile of unanswered petitions was stocked in the Commission archives.

Most people have already forgotten the too famous and so long awaited Instruction ... Universae Ecclesiae (2011). It was supposed to be a magic wand opening the diocesan locked doors through a "hocus pocus" like formula.

What did happen after one year of U.E. ? Nothing. In fact, the "Instruction" was a mere confirmation of the motu proprio, cancelling the rampant idea among neo-mod chanceries that S.P. was finally over and suppressed.

The canonical visit of the Good Shepherd Institute and its inner turmoil now within its general chapter are another sign : Msgr Pozzo is pressing for a normalisation of I.B.P.

As usual so, Rome has not actively supported TLM access for the faithful ; as usual, TLM depends on chanceries benevolence in spite of S.P. With the tandem, Abp di Noia and Bp Roche we can have serious concerns on a possible novusordoization of the Extraordinary Form.

That being said which is a realistic and sad picture, the 2007 motu proprio has a real impact, there is a net increase of Mass locations, there is a real interest among young clergy and seminarians.
Basically Benedict XVI pontificate is a watered down version of what J. Ratzinger was advising. My main concern with the June-July appointments at key offices (Bp Roche, Bp Mueller, the mysterious Abp di Noia), the June 13 violent arm-twisting imposed on Bp Fellay, all these events have just one apparent meaning : the pope is making a possible U-turn and is definitely (?) cancelling the "Ratzingerian" orientation to come back to a soft Wojtylian policy.

The possible reconciliation with SSPX seems now a very distant perspective ; anti-Fellay blogs in the French-speaking world are growing in numbers among priests and faithful of the Society. It is another (worrying) sign.

Alsaticus

Maricruz said...

Costa Rica through Una Voce Costa Rica for a long time have been preparing the traditional mass under pastoral care of the ArchB but it has take so long to invite to public masses. I´ve heard they celebrate them only in private. Don´t understand why.

P.K.T.P. said...

Alsaticus:

I don't want to steal the Pope's show in any way, so I'll keep this short and hypothetical. When things look blackest, there might be some light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, I know: we hope that it is not an approaching train in which Müller is the driver and Levada is stoking the flames.

I suggest, as I have suggested before, that the Pope might have signed something on this day, the anniversary of 07.07.07.

Benedict XVI is trying to send out some smoke signals from his little hill. He needs to appease the liberals, so he's frightened us. But I cannot believe that he plans to abandon this project, after a 24 year fight and more and his failure of 1988. We shall see. Anyway, if nothing comes of this week, we are in the soup. We might hope for something else, like some way to revive "Summorum Pontificum".

P.K.T.P.

Jean Francois said...

@PTKP The sin of detraction? Then you admit that the allegations are true?

Oops! No, I meant slander. Thanks for catching that. I know of particular situations where he has acted rightly, contrary to your assertions.

JF

Andr3w said...

Diocese of Southwark.

I'm not sure how much has changed in the last 5 years but we have a high, sung TLM every Sunday and low mass every morning in one parish.

A few other parishes round about say the TLM on first fridays or special occasions.

The neighbouring diocese of Westminster has low TLM every day in one church and in Sundays at another.

I'm fairly new to this diocese so if someone else from Southwark posts they may need to correct me on these details.

Pulex said...

It seems to me that the take-home message from all those many contributions is: The most places having considerable numbers of (active) traditional catholics have gotten their TLM already before publishing SP or soon after that. The gaps in the PKTP's statistics are the dioceses where the traditional faithful are few and far between and/or not active enough to persist with their demands, or perhaps not going the legal way explained in UE. The example of Zagreb (Croatia) shows that PCED does sometimes act and help to improve the situation. As to the limits of further growth, much more than any views expressed by Bp. Williamson or others, the main obstacle is ... Latin. I have no statistics, merely anecdotal evidence, that, having gotten used to vernacular, most catholics do not want the Mass in a 'foreign language'.

In the archdiocese of Riga, there is a weekly Low Mass on a weekday evening celebrated by the parish pastor (post-SP, petition with 19 signatures) and twice a month Sunday evening Mass by a visiting SSPX priest. There are 5-12 faithful in either venue, some are the same persons in both locations. The three other dioceses in Latvia have nothing. In all this situation I cannot say that the bishops are sabotaging something. They have not been even confronted with such a problem. SP has not till this day been translated into Latvian, but the same can be said of most other Church documents.

Augustinus said...

PKTP,

Mountaineer might have confused the Diocese of Richmond, VA for the Diocese of Wheeling-Charleston. The Canons Regular of New Jerusalem are in the latter and not the former. However, his information regarding NYC is accurate.

Anonymous said...

We do not have a single ExtraOrdinary Rite Mass in my Entire Diocese Springfield Ma
My Family and I travel to another Diocese to attend ;a well Attended TLM

P.K.T.P. said...

Augustinus:

Thank you! My heart nealy stopped when I heard that they might have moved. Getting an every-Su. Mass into Wheeling-Charleston was one of our crowning achievements. It took years of pleading and negotiation. Now, thanks to you, I don't have to bang my head against a wall and add yet another NET LOSS to the American numbers.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Anon. 14.36:

Springfield, Mass. is a real problem, as it lies in Kennedy-Kerry Kommunist Kountry. You you coment on prospect there?

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Pulex:

Actually, the case of Zagreb is one of the very few in which we know that the P.C.E.D. acted successfully. There are scores of unanswered petitions out there and major gaps. In the U.S.A., we cannoot get Masses for the D. of Las Vega or the A. of Mobile, for example. In France, the number of unanswered petitions is very high.

Latvia would be a non-Catholic country with a substantial Catholic minority in the south, I should think. Estonia has two every-Su. Latin Masses approved, in a country in which there are almost no Catholics at all.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Jean Francois:

I don't doubt that he has acted rightly. The problem is that he has not acted often enough. There has been almost no progress in 2008. If he is not responsible, then someone else in the P.C.E.D. is.

P.K.T.P.

P.K.T.P. said...

Maricruz:

I've heard about the Masses in Costa Rica but can get no details. Do they offer them every Sunday?

P.K.T.P.

Henricus said...

After five years of Summorum Pontificum, is there now any reason to foresee any widespread return of the TLM, ever, let alone in the foreseeable future?

Is there a diocese in the world where as many as 1% of the Catholics attend a licit TLM? Or any reason to think there ever will be?

Does the pope favor a return of the TLM to anything more than marginal status in the Church? Does any cardinal or bishop, anywhere? Does anyone, of real influence in the Church?

In the absence of an affirmative to any of these questions, is it not delusionary to think the TLM will ever appeal to more than the traditional remnant?

Adfero said...

To be fair, Cardinal Castrillion did say the Holy Father's wish was to see the TLM said in every parish.

P.K.T.P. said...

Adfero:

There is a difference between a pious wish and a proposal.

Henricius:

We might have more than 1% attending in a few isolated dioceses. Candidates could include the Diocese of Geneva, Lausanne and Fribourg in Switzerland, one of the best served Latin Mass dioceses on earth, given its population. Another example might be Auckland, New Zealand, which has the best access anywhere from Europe all the way to Canada and the U.S.A.

Niantic's expectations are pure fantasy, like someone from Alice in Wonderland. He must live in Narnia with Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy. If we could get a minimum of one per diocese--not one per parish--in MOST of the world (not counting Africa and Asia, save the Philipines), it would be a MAJOR HUGE achievement, one not likely to happen in the next fifty years unless Rome takes legislative action to impose it. Even so, most of these Masses would be attended by fewer than ten faithful at first; many, by only the Celebrant and one server. But they would grow in popularity gradually.

Niantic's proposals, in my considered view, would take at least 3,700 years to achieve at current growth rates, and not including Africa or Asia.

Niantic's dream could come true, of course, if there were a major change, such as an abolition of the New Mass or a meteorite hitting the earth and killing off 89% of its total population. My dream is different: having reasonable access for the majority of people in each diocese in the age of the automobile. That means one to three T.L.M.s per Sunday per diocese, depending on levels of demand.

P.K.T.P.

Adfero said...

I get it, I'm just reminding out of fairness.

Francophone said...

"Is there a diocese in the world where as many as 1% of the Catholics attend a licit TLM? Or any reason to think there ever will be?"

In France, the most realistic estimates put the number of Traditionalist Catholic churchgoers (both SSPX and 'motuist') at 50-100,000, which would be around 2-3% of French churchgoers. Some American Traditionalists speak of millions of French Trads but this is a fantasy.

Anonymous said...

P.K.T.P. said...
Anon. 14.36:

Springfield, Mass. is a real problem, as it lies in Kennedy-Kerry Kommunist Kountry. You you coment on prospect there?

RE:
For over a decade we had one parish in Holyoke Ma with a brave and beautiful priest that offered the TLM once a month, then twice a month. Once the Summorum Pontificum was published ;This Holy Priest offered the TLM every Sunday and a few times a week for daily Mass.
(This did not make him liked by the Diocese)

He was ground to the dust, and suffered greatly for us. He is sorely missed
This Holy Priest carried this Glorius Burden alone for over a Decade . He is now gone. The Mass is now gone and Springfield Ma Diocese can`t close its churches fast enough.
Please pray for us.
Peace

Brian said...

Super flumina Babylonis ibi sedimus et flevimus cum recordaremur Sion

Upon the rivers of Babylon, there we sat and wept: when we remembered Sion

NIANTIC said...

My dear Tom and P.K.T.P.
Like I wrote; "This is MY DREAM for the glory of the TLM around the world and the salvation of souls. May it happen one day soon".

One can dream dreams also of the impossible variety and this is the one I would implement.

Pax et bonum to you all. When I wish to escape the reality we are facing I will have this dream.

David L Alexander said...

One identified as "St Christopher" has made assertions regarding the celebration of the Traditional Mass in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia.

"Bishops like B. Loverde (Arlington, VA) simply tolerate it, with few masses regularly scheduled (and priests have advised that a 'traditional' outlook is not good for the career-minded clergy. The SP, for now, is a hot-house flower curiosity only." (07 July, 2012 17:30)

The above does not square with the facts. Charity, and a desire for the truth, would oblige the moderator(s) of this forum to facilitate the record being set straight.

In fact, Bishop Paul Loverde, while having a stated preference for the "ordinary form," has been generous in the application of the motu proprio, and in his priests learning the Traditional Mass, to the point of sending them, at diocesan expense, to the FSSP seminary in Denton, Nebraska, for training. Of the 68 parishes and missions in the diocese, EIGHT celebrate the TLM every Sunday, and on most if not all holydays of obligation. In this way, nearly twelve percent of the parishes and missions serve less than one percent of the faithful who prefer this form of the Mass. As to the claim that such practices do not favor the "career-minded," among the priests who celebrate the TLM are the secretary of liturgy and religious education (Father Paul deLadurantaye), and the vicar for clergy (Father Paul Scalia), as well as any number of pastors. Father Scalia is also pastor of a parish where I have the honor to serve as Senior Master of Ceremonies, a parish where all FOUR priests in residence celebrate the TLM regularly.

There are certain to be a small number within the diocese who are not satisfied with the present situation. That number may include priests, none of whom are immune to the frailties of the human condition. They do not represent the majority.

On behalf of the priests identified here, and their bishop, I trust that this comment may be deemed suitable for publishing in this forum.

Adfero said...

David, charity doesn't trump facts.

Before SP, I met with the bishop about baptizing my child in the old rite. Even the the office of Ecclesia Dei asked him to allow it, and named the priest in his diocese that would do it, he personally denied it.

First, he told me that if he allowed it, he'd have to allow it for everyone. Then, after my counter arguement, he said no one wants this stuff, so he wouldn't allow me. When I asked him which one was it, too many requests or nine at all, he cut off the conversation.

The success in Arlingon isn't because of him, it's in spite of him. Period.

Tim Trainor said...

Diocese of Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada.
Sent an e-mail to our Bishop asking if the EF would be available in the diocese; his short reply was, 'No, priests aren't trained for it.' End of story. (P.S. The "reform of the reform" hasn't reached this part of the world.)

New Catholic said...

Why, 5 years after Summorum, this asking permission or contacting Bishops, Trainor? That is not how Summorum is supposed to work. Find a priest in your diocese first - if there is a sympathetic priest, your goal will be almost achieved.

Bishops were and remain the greatest obstacle for the TLM, that is one of the reasons (the main one was plain justice) for which Summorum was necessary. Why contact a hostile bishop at all? If no priest is found, follow the procedures, and the bishop will be aware of it very soon.

NC

Paul Anthony said...

Since, the motu proprio the extraordinary form of the Mass has been habitually celebrated weekly in one parish of the Diocese of Spokane and occasionally in several other parishes for special occasions. Twice the parish has celebrated solemn Mass and usally a Missa Contata monthly. The attendance of the faithful at the regular Mass numbers around 80. In the Spokane area are two sede-vacantist groups and one large SSPX center.

Anonymous said...

Since you are allowing an Anonymous report for this entry alone, I can report on the northern part of the diocese of Boise, Idaho. Before the Motu, traditional Catholics in north Idaho who were obedient to the pope and the local bishop, shared a church with a Novus Ordo parish and were at the mercy of the good will of the Novus Ordo pastor of the church.

After Pope Benedict’s Motu, the Fraternity of St. Peter obtained its own church and operates a parish at St. Joan of Arc in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, devoted exclusively to the Extraordinary Form, with two priests in residence full-time. There are three Tridentine Masses on Sunday morning, in addition to daily Mass.

I’m going to guess and say St. Joan’s has 300 parishioners. (Maybe someone in authority can correct this figure if it is far off). There are the usual splits and comings-and-goings, with some people drifting in from the nearby SSPX church in Post Falls, others drifting out to conservative Novus Ordo parishes.

St. Joan’s does have a stable base of committed parishioners and Bishop Driscoll is friendly, though he doesn’t do Confirmations.

St. Joan’s is a youthful parish with large families, which is the the great strength of the traditional movement, along with the fact that for so small a congregation, two young men who were parishioners at St. Joan's are now studying for the priesthood in traditional, Vatican-approved seminaries.

—Tom in Kootenai County

Tom said...

Henricus said...

"After five years of Summorum Pontificum, is there now any reason to foresee any widespread return of the TLM, ever, let alone in the foreseeable future?

"Is there a diocese in the world where as many as 1% of the Catholics attend a licit TLM? Or any reason to think there ever will be?

"Does the pope favor a return of the TLM to anything more than marginal status in the Church?

"Does any cardinal or bishop, anywhere? Does anyone, of real influence in the Church?"
---------------------------

The key to understanding the manner in which our Cardinals and bishops approach the Traditional Roman Mass is to examine their manner of thinking in regard to the Novus Ordo.

1. Vatican II declared that Latin is to be preserved in the Roman Rite. (Imagine that! Latin for the Roman Rite.)

2. Vatican II declared that steps are to be taken to ensure that the Faithful are able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.

3. Vatican II declared that in regard to liturgical music, Gregorian chant is to enjoy preferred status during liturgical services.

4. Vatican II declared that seminarians are to acquire a knowledge of Latin.

For now, forget about "liberal" bishops.

How many "conservative" Cardinals and bishops apply the above-mentioned Vatican II teachings to the Novus Ordo?

How many Latin Church dioceses require that their parishes adhere to the above-mentioned Vatican II teachings?

The reality is that our Churchmen refuse overwhelmingly to present Latin Novus Ordo Masses to the Latin Church Faithful.

Given their distaste for Latin Novus Ordo Masses, why would anybody expect our Churchmen to promote to the hilt Traditional Roman Masses?

Tom

P.K.T.P. said...

Dear Trainor:

Contact me at the following address:

pkperkins@telus.net


There may be a Latin Mass coming to P.E.I.

P.K.T.P.

Maria Faustina said...

We live in the Orihuela Diocese of Southern Spain. (Nr Torrevieja) We have absolutely NO Tridentine Masses for hundreds of miles. The local Catholic Bishop has just finished building an awful looking "Ecumenical Temple" (rooms built for none Catholics to hold their services,) Pop concert type masses are celebrated in the Catholic area by the Catholic laity each Sunday. (The Priest is a caring person though) We have requested a Tridentine Mass at various Churches, but Priestly reactions have varied from mockery (with disdainful smirking faces!) to unease - due possibly to the modernistic tendencies shown by the Bishop) At Orihuela Cathedral, we were told that there was a Tridentine Mass celebrated at Torrevieja Cathedral, but it turned out not to be so.

From what we can gather, the rest of Spain iis exactly the same. There was a Tridentine Mass advertised in the Murcia area, but when we arrived there to attend it - we found out that it was not being celebrated. Apparently, the advertisement was either out of date, or simply a mistake. When we arrived at the Church, someone was practicing the drums! We ran!! - We did not stay for the Mass!

We need a Traditional Bishop when our Bishop retires soon. Please pray for those intentions for us - All the local Parishes hold Masses that if attended Daily, really ARE the types of Masses that can do damage to your faith as the Holy Father has mentioned in one of his homilies. This Diocese is a total nightmare! Altar Server Children running across the Sanctuary smirking at their parents - waving at them from the Congregation. There have even been Concerts held in one local Church which did not even consist of Sacred Music -(the choir treated the Sanctuary area as a Stage, - the Lord was STILL in the Tabernacle! Awful!! . Church cleaners (even the ones that attend Mass daily, sweep the Sanctuary area at my particular Church - not acknowledging the Lord's Presence in the Tabernacle - and loud and cheerful chatter takes place while people are trying to pray - the list goes on and on - As I said - it is a nightmare! All the Priests seem to believe that "all changed with Vatican II"

Anonymous said...

In my diocese, there's an Extraordinary Form Latin Mass once a month at my parish. It is also celebrated in another parish, I believe, although perhaps not as regularly. The beauty of the liturgy and chant, the reverence, even the extraordinary power of the English translation of the Mass has blessed me enormously. I feel closer to Jesus during the Extraordinary Form Mass than at any other time. Kathleen

Anonymous said...

Archdiocese of Adelaide. We have a large FSSP parish. The SSPX also have a small chapel. The Archbishop Philip Wilson has actively discouraged any diocesan priest who wished to offer the TLM in the parish. Wislon is head of the Australian Bishop's Conference. The Vocations Director (since 2001) Fr Dean Marin amd the committee of lay people who examine candidates actively excludes those who attend the TLM. Always "you do not fit in with the local Church" Of course the local doesn't have to fit in with the universal Church!

skladach said...

In the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, and also in the neighboring Diocese of Camden, New Jersey, the number of parishes where the Traditional Latin Mass was celebrated weekly has doubled since 2007: from 2 to 4 and from 1 to 2 respectively. Also, in the Archdiocese, Mass in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite is scheduled every First Friday and First Saturday at a suburban parish.

Gratias said...

There has been a noticeable change since Summorum Pontificum. Previously, when we told Catholic friends we drove (very far but mercifully all paved roads) to the traditional Latin Mass they looked at us as if we were crazy people. Now our preference is accepted as a natural part of the Church.

Our Diocesan mass every-Sunday Missa Cantata is in an active NO parish in an historic California Mission. Many people drift in by chance, stay and sometimes return. There is a natural turnover for a community of 100-150 faithful so over time quite a few people get exposed to the traditional Mass. This would not happen in a dedicated personal parish.

Two priests have learned the TLM and a vocation was accepted to the SSPX seminary through this work of a small Una Voce chapter.

All in all, five years of Summorum Pontificum have made a positive difference for the Church in this case. If we think on how many altar servers, masters of ceremonies and Gregorian choirs must have been formed throughout the world we may be optimistic for the future of the Catholic Faith.

Samuel J. Howard said...

"Mountaineer... However, his information regarding NYC is accurate."

In fact, Mountaineer is misleading about New York City when he writes:

"An eighth every-Sunday TLM was recently discontinued."

The every-Sunday Mass in the Bronx moved from Our Lady of Mt. Carmel to St. Anthony when the priest who celebrated it at OLoMC was moved St. Anthony as the pastor. There were 7 masses every-Sunday Masses before the change and 7 after the change. We haven't had 8 every-Sunday Masses.

Overall, post-Summorum Pontificum changes have also involved the regular celebration of Vespers in the EF, the occasional celebration of the Dominican Rite, the return of the Triduum and daily Mass, 2 more every-Sunday Masses in Manhattan than before SP, several pontifical Masses, weddings (before SP special permission from the chancery was required and now it is not and handled purely at the parish level), confirmations, and at least 2 priests celebrating their first Masses in the EF.

Mar said...

"Latvia would be a non-Catholic country with a substantial Catholic minority in the south, I should think."

Actually, the most substantial Catholic 'enclave' is in the east. There is also a smaller 'enclave' in the west - near the sea - which historically coincided with an ancient tribe who took on the name 'suiti'. There is serious conjecture that this name comes
from the Jesuits who at one time had a strong presence there and offered resistance to encroaching Lutheranism.

Josemaria Paulo Jeromino Martin Carvalho-Von Verster said...

5 Years Ago,My Reaction to SP was that of Reservation(At the time I was an Admirer of Liberation Theology,in other words I was Kinda Modernistic in My Belief),but As I Turned to Orthodoxy,I Found the Extraordinary Form in the least of all Chapels.....A JESUIT UNIVERSITY INFECTED WITH MODERNISM(NO It's NOT Santa Clara or Georgetown,It's Ateneo de Manila).And so I Now Try to Pray in Latin at Least Once a Day. THANK YOU POPE BENEDICT!!!

Anonymous said...

In New Zealand, since Summorum Pontificum, the Bishops have given permission for the EF Latin Mass on Sunday in all Dioceses, except the Hamilton Diocese. Despite written requests, Bishop Denis Browne still refuses to allow a Latin Mass in the Extraordinary Form, although he does allow one weekday Mass. Bishop Browne permits Sunday Masses in Maori, Korean, Spanish and Samoan but not the Latin Mass, and not even in the Ordinary Form. Theresa

YE OLDE JARRA SCRIBE said...

In the Diocese Of Hexham and Newcastle in the North of England since SP has seen the increase I believe of the celebration of only one more TLM on a Sunday There are following celebrations of TLM in these churches every Sunday:
St. Mary's Barnard Castle at 9am
St. Dominic's Newcastle at 11-30am
St.Joseph's Gateshead at 12noon
The Sacred Heart Thornley at 9-30am
The Society Of St Pius X Holy Name Gateshead at 6-pm.
There are currently no celebrations of the TLM in South Tyneside the last one was celebrated in Jarrow in 2002!

Michael.


Jarrow

New Catholic said...

Theresa, bishops "allow" nothing, it is not in their competence to "allow" it under the correct measures of Summorum. Other than that, thank you for that report from New Zealand!

Dixie said...

The TLM in the archdiocese of San Antonio, Texas has been limited by the archbishop to just one church. Despite numerous requests from many stable groups throughout the archdiocese, along with priests willing and able to offer the mass, officials refuse to allow TLM's in other parishes. Since there was exactly one TLM before SP, held in a nursing home, and one TLM after SP,SP changed nothing, absolutely nothing in San Antonio.

Carmen said...

A Diocese in Castile (Spain)

Before Motu Proprio: no Traditional Masses

After Motu Proprio: polite words, but no facts.

Travelling 100- 300 Km is the only possibility, when you want to attend a Tradicional Latin Mass.

Anonymous said...

"Truth in Pittsburgh," it must be noted, has exceeded the record of his fellow-travellers in calumny, which is no easy thing: in real life, a disgruntled sacristan who was dismissed from his position spent a year devoting himself, leading those of ill-will, and deceiving the gullible into driving away from the Latin Mass Community the priest who at some personal cost served the community for years. Hope springs eternal, but it does so in spite of the disgusting behavior of a handful of men who would be much better suited as the elders at a nearby Presbyterian Church.

Jennifer

Servant said...

In response to JTLiuzza said...
"I reside in the Archdiocese of New Orleans, Louisiana. Since the council we have always had one diocesan TLM on Sundays at 9:30 am.

Since SP, to my knowledge only 2 parishes have added the TLM: one a Saturday vigil [Kenner] and the other on Sunday at 7:00 am [St Benilde in Metairie].

We also have an SSPX Chapel (Our Lady of Grace). I do not know how long the SSPX Chapel has been in our Archdiocese."


06 July, 2012 21:16


Keith said...

There is also now, thanks to the priests, deacon, acolytes and Purgatorial Society of St. Patrick's Parish, a once a month (2nd Tuesday) solemn requiem TLM at St. John the Baptist at 7 pm (please attend if you are in New Orleans). There is also a TLM once a month on Sunday at noon at St. Stephen's Church New Orleans as well as one at Sacred Heart Church (I believe every Sunday)in Lacomb on the North Shore of Lake Pontchartrain. There may even be a couple more popping up soon since we now have two new young priests who have celebrated the TLM (solemn high) and who are eager to spread it.

SadInWichita said...

Our bishop is openly hostile to the TLM. We have a weekly TLM, thank God, but this was set up before the present Bishop. We do not have all the sacraments. From a letter the Bishop wrote (in correspondence) he said that receiving sacraments might have greater grace if the recipient "understands" what is going on. Diocese of Wichita Ks. U.S.A.

sal said...

In the diocese of Charleston, which is the entire state of South Carolina, I know of 1 church that offers 1 TLM on Sunday around noon. There might be another that I am not aware of, but the Charleston diocese does not seem very friendly towards tradition.

Skypilot Jeff said...

Archdiocese of Baltimore: Insignificant implementation. Our choice is one parish in a very bad section of the city with almost no parking one evening a week or another parish about an hour away. This has been done by deliberate design of those in charge in the diocesan bureacracy who have consistently expressed their disdain of the TLM for over 30 years.
Prayerfully, we wait for the biological solution to take effect.

Adfero said...

Baltimore has been denying the FSSP, much like D.C., for years. St. Alphonsus is great but a dismal turnout in a horrific area of town.

Don't forget, the Anglican-turned-Catholics at Mount Calvary are offering a daily TLM:

http://www.mountcalvary.com/services.php

Judy said...

In the Cincionnati Diocese the diocesan seminary installed a traditional chapel last spring so seminarians would be exposed to and learn the TLM The head of the seminary and a couple of the professers can offer the TLM.

In Dayton Ohio the Holy Family Parish is served by the FSSP priests. There sre 2 Sunday Masses and Daily Masses.

In Cincinnati there is a Sunday Mass at Sacred Heart Church.

In the northren part of the diocese Fr Amberger will begin offering the TLM on the First Fridays of the month.

Judy

Julia of Arc said...

Dear New Catholic would you please consider posting the article I cite below?
From this article of Cardinal Burke I went on the Catholic News Headlines 7/9/12 in which Cardinal Burke first says that he laments resistance to the application of the Summorum Pontificium but then to the Catholic News Service he says that he hoped that "the NO mass would be enriched by the use of more latin and ... on the other hand the practice of reading scriptural passages in modern languages is a tremendous gift post V2 and the priest facing the congregation.. can ecourage a deeper appreciation of the ransparent devotion with which priests should celebrate both forms of the liturgy".
So the plan seems to make changes on the Traditional Mass so that both forms can look the same basically. Pope Benedict is said to have ordered a commission to study the possible revision of the Old Mass. No word on who will do it, so far. I doubt that the study will be commissioned to the FSSP or the SSPX.

Anonymous said...

Here in the Archdiocese of Portland in Oregon the Latin Mass is only allowed in a few churches that neighbor SSPX churches. In fact in the Southern part of the diocese where there is no SSPX the people were requesting the Latin Mass for years but ignored. Then we finally got a young priest who loved to say the Latin Mass but was forbidden to say it in public by his Pastor. A month after the people in the area signed a petition requesting the Extraordinary Form he was mysteriously transfered out of the area with no explanation. Archbishop Vlanzey is supposed to retire this year and we are praying for a Bishop that truly honors the Moto Proprio.

Steve said...

Here in South Carolina we don't get much love on the TLM. I've asked the bishop to bring in a traditional priest to help ours & get negative back. Pray for him he doesn't like the TLM due to some 'personal issues' with it. We have 2 in our entire country (I call our state the classical term of country) & I have priests tell me 'you have the TLM an hour away" like that is great & all but I thought the Holy Father wants it at all parishes? Why are we pushing religious freedom yet get told no to freedom of the TLM?!

Jimmy Martello said...

I was once told by a now deceased priest of the Archdiocese of New Orleans that it was believed that Our Lady of Grace was first a small group that attended Mass at a funeral home offered by SSPX priests. The chapel became functional as early as 1976 being purchased from a Protestant group that built a new building a block or so away.
To my knowledge the TLM is now offered at four parishes in our archdiocese.