Rorate Caeli

On the Franciscans of the Immaculate - Clarification

Andrea Tornielli publishes yet another article on the intervention in the Franciscans of the Immaculate (August is slow news month in Europe), but this time he mentions Rorate Caeli, by name and link, so we would like to clear two things up:

-First, he says we published the Decree of the Congregation for Religious first; that is not the case, as made clear in the text itself, we merely pasted it from the original source, Messa in Latino;

-Second, he says we are close to the Franciscans of the Immaculate, as if we had some sources there; unfortunately, that is not the case, we have no special access to any source inside that Order. [Update: this point was removed from the text following a strong denial by us on Twitter.]

On the other hand, Tornielli apparently confirms what has been circulating since the beginning of this ordeal: that a tiny minority of friars who complained to Rome got the intervention of the Order. Tornielli identifies Frs. Antonio Santoro, Michele Iorio, Pierdamiano [Peter Damien] Fehlner, Massimiliano Zangheratti, Angelo Geiger, and implies the special position of the latter in this affair by quoting from a letter sent by him to Rome. Congratulations to those involved for their successful endeavor!

We would just emphasize that our interest in this matter is not so much related to the internal workings and troubles of a particular order (we know the Order will survive just fine, and grow stronger, as the FSSP did after their own intervention), but to the extremely grave precedent the Braz de Aviz Decree sets for the rights recognized (not created!) in Summorum Pontificum, and to the way the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" (and the Apostolic Signatura, by the probable limitation of appeal) were short-circuited in a matter of their competence.

28 comments:

jeff said...

I just trust that this will be revealed for what it is- a misunderstanding and that Summorum Pontificum will soon again flourish among the Friars.

I suppose it would be different if an order was started with the novus ordo being an explicit part of its charism (like the opposite of the ecclesia dei groups).

perhaps it could be resolved with different houses formalising which Use they celebrate so everyone knows what they're getting themselves into.

Credo In Unum Deum said...

One wonders about the other information in the Tornielli report which "confirms what has been circulating..." If he can't get the fact that Rorate did a copy/paste from Messa, which was right on the paste! then... well you get the consequent.

dmw said...

Countless saints were silenced (and even persecuted) under obedience by their superiors. Think St. Pio of Pietrelcina. After all this, the FFI will grow stronger.

Glendon Cheshire said...

How incredibly disappointing Fr. Fehlner numbers the list. He's a gifted speaker, but scratch that. (Sigh)

Ma Tucker said...

Well, while you may have authority to silence there must be proper regard to justice and the law in the process. I would have thought that if there was an accusation of a problem you do not in justice take those accusations as proven and act so before a proper investigation has been completed. This is typical abuse that masquerades as justice and good order. Guilty until proven innocent if you will.

Kathleen said...

Thank you NC and everyone at Rorate Caeli for the coverage of this situation. May God bless you for all you put up with to do it.

My heart breaks for those hurt by this.

This has been a very difficult year for those of us faithful to the traditions of Holy Mother Church. I try to keep my mouth shut for fear I'll say something that just makes it worse, but the blows just keep coming.

Gratias said...

Lost on the cardinals that imposed the Commissary of the FFI is the fact that every time the traditional mass is offered great graces result to the world.

This intervention seems to be about V2 considered as a rupture in the liturgy. A reform of the reform of the reform to placate the Buginistas and the anti-Pelagianista.

Carlos said...

Did Tornielli update his article? I do not see where he says the Rorate is close to the Fransciscans of the Immaculate.

New Catholic said...

He did, Carlos. We had corrected him at Twitter.

Hayfarmer said...

Gratias,
Unfortunately it is not lost on the cardinals that offering the Tridentine Mass results in great graces--that is precisely what they do not want. The theology of the Holy Mass, the sacrifice of Our Lord is so powerful they will do anything and everything to stop it!

This decree is only the very beginning of this last push toward total annihilation before they die and meet their reward.

Bwangi Kilonzo said...

Unfortunately it is not lost on the cardinals that offering the Tridentine Mass results in great graces--that is precisely what they do not want.




Is this not going too far? I would imagine a lot of Cardinals want to go to heaven. Perhaps praying for them to be open to our Lord's will might be more productive than this sort of accusation?

Dan Rathernot said...

I am not sure where I heard this, but I was under the impression that one of your contributors was a member of the FI; I thought a sister, but perhaps a brother? Please correct me if I am wrong.

New Catholic said...

You heard them in some gossip site kept by a priest. There is no FI friar or sister among our contributors, there never has been.

yoink! said...

Unfortunately it is not lost on the cardinals that offering the Tridentine Mass results in great graces--that is precisely what they do not want. The theology of the Holy Mass, the sacrifice of Our Lord is so powerful they will do anything and everything to stop it!

Wow..... how did we get so far removed from reality...

We need to pray that hateful posts and thinking like that exemplified in this post are given up and Catholic virtue is employed instead.... this is pretty bad...

Matthew said...

I am interested in how the FSSP grew stronger as a result of its Roman persecution with Protocol 1411 and the allowance of the NO amongst them.


Can you expand on this? Thank you.

Adfero said...

Stephen, we don't tell you anything we don't want you to know. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

Frank Carleton said...

Let us remind ourselves that for numerous prelates, including cardinals, religion is merely the extension of politics by other means.
They are committed to the here and now for their own puny temporal self- aggrandisement

Angelo said...

I read something which was of great importance to me. Bl. John XXlll In his original 5 Schemas for Vatican Council ll, 4 were abrogated by the votes by the liberal Council Fathers. By what I read one of the Schemas was the one that was to deal with the reaffirmation of the Truths of the Church, which was intended to have confirmed the condemnation of the errors of modernism. I sure would like to read what Bl. John XXlll wrote in that Schema. It was a grave error to have 4 of the Schemas voted away. The modernist at V2 wanted more lay participation in the Church (Their own idea of it of course!). We Traditionalists should take up that Schema and in no small way discuss it. Lay participation by practice is encouraged only for the liberal laity. We Traditionalists must continue our "Lay active participation", and make our participation more forceful. Pope Francis has said that it is not for him to judge gays or divorced and remarried Catholics, so we are all assured that he will not judge and interfere with our defense of Christ and his Church (Yeah right!).

New Catholic said...

Stephen McGuire, you are completely insane. Yes, please post whatever you want, we don't fear threats.

Allan Wafkowski said...

Would it be imprudent to suggest that those in the order who wish to offer the Latin Mass just ignore the Vatican? The pope himself has shown lack of regard to the rubrics. Isn't that the tactics used by dissenters who wanted girl altar boys and many other liturgical innovations. They just did what they wanted until it became the norm.

Michael Pilonggo said...

I WISH A COULD ATTEND A VETUS ORDO MASS EVERY SUNDAY . THE MASS WHICH PUTTING ME OUT OF THIS WORLD .. TO LOVE GOD.. TO IMMITATE JESUS

New Catholic said...

Look, Stephen McGuire, "Dan Rathernot", Bonaventure, or Angelo, whoever you may be: you are barking under the wrong tree. We have no idea whatsoever of what you are talking about, and we have no reason to lie - which in fact we never did regarding any matter. Now, please, could you stop commenting here, we really have other things to do. And yes you are being extremely disrespectful in a moment of grief, and I find that extremely, extremely painful - so just stop, I beg you to stop.

New Catholic said...

No, I haven't got a clue, completely ignorant in this matter. So please stop and go elsewhere. Thank you, Dan/Stephen McGuire/Bonaventure/Angelo or whoever you are.

Stephen sans silencio McGuire said...

Dear New Catholic, Bonaventure you got right but Angelo you got wrong. l have know problem verifying who I am but you will have to ask my superiors why I am forced to use my secular name. You are publishing and defending false accusations and presentations of the situation and I beg you to stop.

I did not know of your Mothers death until about an hour ago and I assure you of my prayers for her eternal repose.

Please just stop defending the positions that I hope you know little about. I will leave you in peace if for the good of the Church you can let the Holy See sort the matter out. You know full well the common good must always take president when it conflicts with the individual good.

New Catholic said...

Fr Bonaventure McGuire,

As I said earlier, you are barking under the wrong tree. We merely relayed what others (Sandro Magister, and Messa in Latino, and others) have said. We have not added a single original info on the matter because, despite what you and others seem to imply, we do not have any. We have no insider knowledge of the FFI, we claim no insider knowledge, and that is it. Naturally, the strange things happening in the past few weeks, including threats we have received, indicate that your group seems to be quite messed up - on a level we had never seen on any traditional-minded organization and which we could never have guessed. Nevertheless, RORATE IS JUST A MESSENGER of information made PUBLICLY available by others, STOP SHOOTING THE MESSENGER. And please, since you do seem to have insider knowledge and contacts, ask the FFI-dissident-minority attack dogs, including your friend, to stop harrassing us. IF we had any insider knowledge of the FFI, you can be SURE we would have sounded the alarms one month ago. Alas, we have not, and we did not. As we said in this very post, our interest in this matter is mostly in the disastrous precedent it sets regarding Summorum Pontificum, NOT the details inside the FFI.

Hoping this ridiculous harrassment stops at once,

NC

Adfero said...

Wow, you would think priests would have something better to do than harass us, using multitudes of false names. No wonder this is such a mess ...

New Catholic said...

Yes, Adfero. Truly unbelievable.

Yes, friends, you may post whatever you want, and we let through whatever we consider appropriate, and block things for various reasons (see disclaimer above), even for simply not being to our liking.

New Catholic said...

Well, I think this thread has served its purpose and offered us precious insight. Unfortunately, it seems we will still be targeted and harrassed for some time for simply relaying information that is publicly available elsewhere. In the meantime, we will continue in this task, "involved in dangers and difficulties until [we] are led into the happy fatherland", since it belongs to "each believer the right and duty to use [their charisms] in the Church and in the world for the good of men and the building up of the Church, in the freedom of the Holy Spirit who 'breathes where He wills' (John 3:8)" (Apostolicam Actuositatem) - in the unforgettable words of our dear Second Vatican Council of glorious memory and enormous consequences.

NC