Rorate Caeli

Real Turkish interests

From some famous exchanges between Turkish Interior Minister, Mehmet Talaat Pasha (soon to be one of the last Ottoman Grand Viziers, Talaat was one of the leaders of the "Young Turks" and an architect of the Armenian Genocide), and American Ambassador in Constantinople, Henry Morgenthau, in 1915 (in "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story", by Henry Morgenthau):

"...I have asked you to come here"[, Talaat said,]"so as to let you know that our Armenian policy is absolutely fixed and that nothing can change it. We will not have the Armenians anywhere in Anatolia. They can live in the desert, but nowhere else."

I still attempted to persuade Talaat that the treatment of the Armenians was destroying Turkey in the eyes of the world, and that his country would never be able to recover from this infamy.

"You are making a terrible mistake," I said, and I repeated the statement three times.

"Yes, we may make mistakes," he replied, "but" -- and he firmly closed his lips and shook his head -- "we never regret."


One day Talaat made what was perhaps the most astonishing request I had ever heard. The New York Life Insurance Company and the Equitable Life of New York had for years done considerable business among the Armenians. The extent to which this people insured their lives was merely another indication of their thrifty habits.

"I wish," Talaat now said, "that you would get the American life insurance companies to send us a complete list of their Armenian policy holders. They are practically all dead now and have left no heirs to collect the money. It of course all escheats to the State. The Government is the beneficiary now. Will you do so?"

This was almost too much, and I lost my temper.

"You will get no such list from me," I said, and I got up and left him.


humboldt said...

It is the same value shared by Nazi Germany, Soviet Communism, Anti-Native American US policy and Turkish nationalism. The times have changed and so have people and their values. That is how people lived their lives in those days. We have to be careful that it does return anywhere. AMDGm

Jeff said...

From the close of the Pope's homily in Ephesus:

"Mary, Mother of the Church, accompany us always on our way! Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us! Aziz Meryem Mesih’in Annesi C Amen."

Anybody notice anything funny?

English: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us."

Turkish: "Aziz Meryem Mesih’in Annesi bizim için Dua et.", which translated is "Holy Mary, Mother of the Messiah, make a duah (make a prayer request) for us..."

Mother of God would be Ullah'in Annesi. You could also say, Ullah'in Validet or Validet Ullah which means "Bearer of God (in the womb)" and corresponds as well to "Θεοτόκος" (Theotokos).

But Mesih means just Messiah or Christ, not God.

This was in Ephesus, mind. Remember which Council defined Mary as Mother of God?

New Catholic said...

In Ephesus...

Jordan Potter said...

Well, he affirms the doctrine in English, but it looks like he "punted" in Turkish. I guess I can understand why he'd do that. It was brave of him to go to Turkey at all, but would have been heroic for him to affirm the Theotokos in Turkish as well as English.

humboldt said...

Did anybody notice that among protestors to Benedict XVI's visit to Turkey, there were people with banners calling the Pope the Antichrist? This had not happened since before the papacy of John Paul II. Instead of moving forward, the papacy is moving backwards. This is very bad. Who's fault is it? It's Benedict XVI's fault.

humboldt said...

How can dialogue with Islam go, if the Vatican, the Bush administration adn European governments do not say a word about the Armenian genocide done by Turkey? How can something be built upon lies, if there is not the slighest recognization of a genocide that preceed and foretall the genocide commited by Nazi Germany. Is the Pope blind or he has lost the sense of reality or thinks that people are stupid? What a difference with the way in which Pope Pius XII stood to the Holocaust. AMDG.

Tito said...


You've got to be kidding me about "Anti-Native American US policy"?!

Are you saying that the United States purposely killed Indians along the lines of Communism and Nazism?

New Catholic,

Great posting.

humboldt said...

Tito, I don't know if in the same manner as Nazism and Communism did, being Nazism the one that attained the highest level of systematization, but definitely as European were conquering Native American land, they exterminated the Native American population, nor would you dispute this? In a similar fashion, the Spaniards set to exploit Native Latin-Americans to the point of extermination, although definitely not attaining the same level as Europeans did in the U.S. or later Nazis attained. The European beast is difficult to tame, even today.