Rorate Caeli

Wagner Affair over

The Holy Father has relieved the Rev. Mons. Gerhard Wagner from accepting the office of Auxiliary Bishop of Linz (Austria).

65 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:13 PM

    Wimp out.

    BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

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  2. Anonymous12:19 PM

    This is the end
    Beautiful friend
    This is the end
    My only friend, the end

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  3. Anonymous12:25 PM

    The Vatican statement says "dispensed", not "dismissed", but I suspect NC has deliberately got that translation wrong!

    I don't, however, think it's the end.

    Papa will get his revenge, in his usual nice way.

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  4. This must not be the end of the story. Otherwise it is a terrible example. What a mess. Miserere nobis, Domine!

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  5. "Dismissed" seemed appropriate for the specific event, Vatspy. :)

    Let me alter it to "relieved"...

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  6. But: nothing about his titular see of Zuri. And note: he's called 'reverend Monsignor'. Was he such even before the recent appointment?


    Just ask our Austrian fiends..

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  7. Anonymous12:51 PM

    This is a gross defeat of Papal authority, and entails disastrous consequences. Benedict made some substantial moves in favour of Tradition, but his Pontificate is over. He has demolished his authority; now the Motu Proprio will be completely overlooked. We re not going to see any agreement woth the SSPX. The radical progressives, among with the enemies from outside are parading in triumph.

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  8. Anonymous12:59 PM

    Well, the appointment of (will be-)cardinal Tempesta , in Brazil, would seem not a good sign, too... (?)

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  9. Anonymous12:59 PM

    Quite right too. If this newly nominate bishop does not enjoy widespread support were he was to be appointed then such an appointment would have been distructive. Better still if the appointment of bishops be locally rather than Rome relying on the 'information' about each candidate from the Nunico who may not understand the local situation.


    Jamie

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  10. Anonymous1:11 PM

    "Well, the appointment of (will be-)cardinal Tempesta , in Brazil, would seem not a good sign, too... (?)"

    I read about this man, and was originally fascinated that the Pope chose a Cistercian monk...out of all the others he could have picked.

    Does your comment mean that this Tempesta is some sort of radical liberal, liberation theology type nutjob?

    If that's the kind of person Pope Benny appointed, then I agree.

    The worthless liberals have won, and Pope Benny's pontificate is over. He wimped out and listened to the wrong people in releasing Wagner, when instead he should have confirmed him with full confidence.
    Big Papal mistake. Duh.

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  11. Let us hope that His Holiness has another card up his sleeve in regards to this matter- how about a full investigation of the diocese of Linz, indeed, the Austrian Bishop's Conference as well? I doubt very much that we have heard the last of this from His Holiness. Pray for the Holy Father - he needs it much.

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  12. Anonymous1:33 PM

    Absolutely appalling -especially today:

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/372/460009/text/

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  13. I am appalled at some of the comments beneath this post. Two comments that HH's pontificate is over? Astounding. I agree with Paul Haley. BXVI may have attempted to drive a stake into the heart of liberalism with this appointment, but it was Wagner who refused him. In refusing a man who has given his life in service to the universal Church, serving well past the age of retirement at the request of JPII, I think I see where BXVI is coming from.

    I also think that HH has more tools in his toolbox. So the stake was insufficient. One can, of course, wear velvet gloves while driving a dagger. I for one haven't given up on the working of the Holy Spirit. I'm more interested in seeing who the dagger will be.

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  14. Anonymous2:20 PM

    What a shame! I am not going to side with those who think that this is the end of Pope Benedict's Pontificate, but it is true that the liberals are going to take this (an indeed it is!) as a victory for them. They will see that all they have to do is make enough noise and shout enough threats, and those who could do so much for the Church will cave under the pressure.

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  15. Anonymous2:21 PM

    Wagner should never have been appointed auxiliary bishop in Linz in the first place. He should have been appointed coadjustor there.

    P.K.T.P.

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  16. Anonymous2:44 PM

    Cooperator:

    Is there an English translation of this?

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/372/460009/text/

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  17. Anonymous2:46 PM

    In 1909, in the midst of an audience with members of the Franciscan order, he seemed to fall into a trance. Moments passed, then his eyes sprung open and he jumped to his feet. "What I have seen is terrifying!” he cried out. “Will I be the one, or will it be a successor? What is certain is that the Pope will leave Rome and, in leaving the Vatican, he will have to pass over the dead bodies of his priests!"

    Shortly before his death, another vision came to him: "I have seen one of my successors, of the same name, who was fleeing over the bodies of his brethren. He will take refuge in some hiding place; but after a brief respite, he will die a cruel death.

    What interests me is where he says 'of the same name'. It might interest some others to know that Pope Pius X was born Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto. 'Giuseppe' being an italian form of the name 'Joseph' as in Joseph Alois Ratzinger or Pope Benedict XVI.

    ... and it is also 100 years ago. There could be some fireworks in the Vatican. Perhaps the Pope mentioned in the Fatima letter is THIS pope.

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  18. Anonymous2:54 PM

    Excellent news. Let's move on and make a good Lent now.

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  19. Anonymous2:57 PM

    No, WilliamTell, "of the same name" has to mean his Papal name, Pius. "Simon, son of John, from henceforth thou art Peter...." And Saul became Paul. New name for a new purpose and mission in life.

    The prospect that Benedict's successor could be a Pius XIII is to be kept in mind. If that happens, then we know where things are going.

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  20. Anonymous3:31 PM

    Let us pray that the Holy Father installs His Excellency Bishop Fellay in Austria in stead.

    God bless His Holiness!

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  21. Anonymous3:42 PM

    Just remember everyone thought Calvary was a disaster- but it turned out to be the Greatest Triumph. It may look bad...but its not over yet.

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  22. Quote " Dan Hunter said...

    Let us pray that the Holy Father installs His Excellency Bishop Fellay in Austria in stead."

    Fat chance!. The Wagner affair proves that the liberals and progressives control the church and the Pope. Whatever they want they get!!. We are NOTHING in the eyes of the liberal and progressive Catholic hierarchy. I will pray that the Orthodox Churches stay clear of the Roman Catholic Church, for the safety of their traditions and the orthodox teachings!.

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  23. Anonymous3:52 PM

    Please keep in mind that these liberal Cardinals and Bishops are coming close to the end of their "reigns" and life...May God bless our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI with health and strength for many more years of service, so that he can install faithful priests to higher positions in the church.Always keep in mind what our Lady of Fatima told us....In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph!!!

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  24. Latest from Rome. The church hands back to the russian orthodox church and state the church of S.Nicholas in Bari. With goog wishes from the Holy Father.
    www.interfax-religion.com
    www.vatican.va

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  25. Quote: "Please keep in mind that these liberal Cardinals and Bishops are coming close to the end of their "reigns" and life...May God bless our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI with health and strength for many more years of service, so that he can install faithful priests to higher positions in the church.Always keep in mind what our Lady of Fatima told us....In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph!!!"

    This whole affair proves that he CANNOT install faithful priests to higher positions. Only progressive and liberals to higher positions!. The power of the traditional Papacy is gone!. The fact that the Pope has not ONCE presided over a PUBLIC Tridentine Mass, or put a stop to the likes of a Cardinal Mahony, or the end of "teen masses" and other silly acts of worship universally proves his words mean NOTHING!. The progressives and liberals cried loud against the installation of Wagner. And they got what they want!. They denounced the SSPX, TAC, etcc. And we still have no communion. Because Vatican 2 is the only important Council that ever existed in their eyes!. And they will install their own liberal and progressive priests to continue their mission. Islam and atheism is growing in Europe because of their FAILURE!. But they still demand all the say in the church. And they have way more power than Traditional Catholics have to get what they want!.

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  26. Anonymous4:31 PM

    Pope Benedict has proven that he can be bullied into submission. This morning he also made another weak choice in Biloxi Mississippi to the American Hierarchy. Im very disapointed in him.

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  27. Anonymous4:34 PM

    just to ligten the mood this whole thing reminds me of a line from the film "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory".

    Charlie's mother says to him.

    "One day, things will change, and probably when you least expect it."

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  28. Anonymous4:47 PM

    becket, I think you are one of these SSPX traitors who values his own ideas above obedience to the Holy Church. Hopefully I am wrong in that assessment. But His Holiness is not helped by the likes of you and the "anonymous" poster(s) above proclaiming the end of his papacy.

    Perhaps the trouble caused by the fallout from Wagner's own imprudent comments could have been borne, if not for the weight of the albatross Williamson.

    His Holiness is a man of good heart and keen intellect. Though the anti-semites and protestants in the SSPX want to see him fail, he will not fail. Wagner is surely not the only acceptable man in Austria. Another good man, perhaps with a better head for subtle prudence of politics (thus quite the opposite of my own temperment) will be chosen.

    The life of Church and the blessed papacy of Benedict XVI will go on, despite the jeering from the sidelines both left and right.

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  29. These are the real allies of Pope Benedict XVI and traditional Catholicism.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/orthobel/310247768/in/set-72157594398874601/

    The photo stream is enjoyable to look at.
    The Pope looks at home!.

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  30. Quote: "becket, I think you are one of these SSPX traitors who values his own ideas above obedience to the Holy Church. Hopefully I am wrong in that assessment. But His Holiness is not helped by the likes of you and the "anonymous" poster(s) above proclaiming the end of his papacy."

    Actually I'm an Easterner!. A follower of the Byzantine tradition now.

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  31. Anonymous5:05 PM

    I am beginning to believe that the lifting of the excommunications was a sign from Benedict that he is
    powerless to help us, and that the Society is now a necessary refuge where true Catholics can go in good conscience to receive the sacraments.
    What an absurdity to bleat "obedience!" and prefer communion with a worthless wretch like Mahony.
    One thanks God once again for the towering figure of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
    May Benedict take courage from his example.

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  32. Anonymous5:26 PM

    Under the present circumstances, accepting the resignation was the only thing that the Holy Father could do.

    The Vatican is under siege from every single side. If he were to take a much more pro-active stance, then things might have gotten a lot worse.

    Personally, I agree with those who state there should be disciplinary action. I once advocated on my own blog that the entire country of Austria be placed under interdict until the Austrian bishops get their act together. But I'm afraid that such an action on the part of the Pope would alienate him and his pontificate from many people that are already disaffected with him.

    The only thing that we can do is pray for the Pope at this time. Perhaps, God will help us to find a way out of the current mess.

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  33. Anonymous5:50 PM

    Brother Jupiner:
    There is only ONE way to find our way out of this mess! And we are reminded in this Season of Lent..and that is to Pray,Fast and Pennance. This will be the only way out of the situation the Church is in now!

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  34. Anonymous5:50 PM

    To all those claiming that this is the end of world -- or at least the pontificate -- calm down! And as for this showing that the liberals and progressives have "all the power in the Church:" are you serious? Do you really think Joseph Ratzinger was the favorite candidate of the liberals and progressives at the last conclave? Chill out. The comments attributed to Wagner were indeed imprudent. What this incident and the Williamson affair prove is simply that the Holy Father needs better advisers, ones with their antennae out who can anticipate the reaction to things like the Williamson interview or the Wagner comments. We all can find these things on Google. Why can't anybody in the Vatican?

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  35. Anonymous5:51 PM

    The "Spirit of Vatican Two" is indeed alive and well. Too bad it is not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of the Ancient Enemy.

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  36. Anonymous6:31 PM

    Let's hear a great big Bronx Cheer for Pope Benedict XVI, and all the "Spirit of Vatican II, JP II" men.

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  37. Anonymous6:41 PM

    @becket: Ah, an Easterner. Then shalom, and please pray for the pope.

    @Anonymous17:05: Yes, I "bleat" obedience. I am a Catholic sheep, not a sedevacantist goat. I'm no fan of Cardinal Mahony... but are his sins more scarlet than yours? It would be better even to break bread with a prostitute than to keep company with pharisees and their devilish pride.

    @Anonymous17:51: Careful. Our Lord says "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin." (Mark 3:29)

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  38. Anonymous6:59 PM

    Stop. His Pontificate is not over. Don't be hysterical.

    Maybe the Pope realized that there's no way this one particular man was going to be able to function effectively as a bishop with the Austrian hierarchy and numbers of Austrian laity screaming bloody murder and, in the case of some laity, LEAVING THE CHURCH over this appointment (at least according to media reports; I guess we should take that with a grain of salt but it's still unfortunate if true). This priest would be hounded about this comment for his entire time as bishop, and the media would make him, the Pope, and the Church a laughingstock. It would be even more difficult if the Pope wanted to promote him to a larger see. Furthermore, much of the heat seems to be over the Katrina comments, which honestly didn't seem (from what I've read of them) to be particularly necessary for anyone's salvation; I'd be happy to be corrected on this point if anyone knows more of the story.

    However, other holy, capable men can be found in Austria without such statements on their record (the good monks of Heiligenkreuz could probably spare somebody, and seeing as the Pope specifically visited their Abbey when he went to Austria, I think it's likely). Now, if the Pope appoints some prissy liberal priest who is obviously the pick of the Austrian bishops as auxiliary of Linz, then I think we can say this is a defeat for the Pope. However, the problems of the Church in Austria are not going to be fixed overnight, nor does this one appointment make or break the whole thing. Deeper reforms need to be made in terms of what kind of input the Austrian (and British and American and Mexican and everyone else) hierarchy has in the selection process of bishops.

    At least that's the way I see it...perhaps some Austrian readers or others in the know could correct me if I'm off-base in my views.

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  39. Anonymous7:29 PM

    Adeodatus said...

    @Anonymous17:51: Careful. Our Lord says "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin." (Mark 3:29)

    My whole point is from the Biblical injunction that "by their fruits ye shall know them." Show me anyone on this or any other orthodox Roman Catholic blog who would equate the "Spirit of Vatican Two" with the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, the Holy Ghost. In my mind, equating them would be blasphemy...Fr. Joseph S. O'Leary anyone?

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  40. Anonymous7:43 PM

    Becket,

    "I will pray that the Orthodox Churches stay clear of the Roman Catholic Church, for the safety of their traditions and the orthodox teachings!"

    This is a disgraceful and most un-Catholic attitude -- "Better schism than obedience to a weak hierarch." Following your logic, when St. Peter denied Our Lord, the disciples should have run after Simon Magus.
    -- Bonifacius

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  41. Anonymous7:46 PM

    I agree with Becket.

    Follow a leader like Archbishop Lefebvre and Bishop Fellay, rather than the Vatican II Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, priests, nuns, and faithful who have lead the Church to ruin.

    TODAY IS THE 70TH ANNIVERARY OF THE ELECTION OF A REAL CATHOLIC POPE WHO IS NOW A SAINT IN HEAVEN....
    POPE PIUS XII.

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  42. Anonymous7:49 PM

    "Maybe the Pope realized that there's no way this one particular man was going to be able to function effectively as a bishop with the Austrian hierarchy and numbers of Austrian laity screaming bloody murder and, in the case of some laity, LEAVING THE CHURCH over this appointment (at least according to media reports;"

    WHO CARES ABOUT THE AUSTRIAN FAITHFUL LEAVNG THE CHURCH. THOSE WHO WERE GOING WERE THE LIBERALS AND RADICALS. THEY WERE HEADING TO THE PROTESTANTS.
    LET THE GO. A SMALLER, PURIFIED, CATHOLIC CHURCH ACCORDING TO CATHOLIC TRADITION IS FAR BETTER THAN THE MASSIVE, WORTHLESS VATICAN II CHURCH WE HAVE TODAY.

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  43. Anonymous8:01 PM

    "Please keep in mind that these liberal Cardinals and Bishops are coming close to the end of their "reigns" and life..."

    You are dreaming. It is a great naivete to think that all or most younger clergy who succeed the liberals are less liberal and more conservative than their predecessors. There is no evidence for that. On the contrary can you detect distinguished cardinals like Oddi, Palazzini, Stickler in the actual sacred college? No sign of it!
    The unhappy causa surroundng Wagner just manifests the new babylonian captivity of the papacy since the death of Blessed John XXIII. Since his death there is a daunting leadership crisis in the church and due several postconciliar reforms de facto dismantled curia.

    "May God bless our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI with health and strength for many more years of service"

    His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, for whom we pray in our parish every day, has tried to break with the laissez-faire attitude of Paul VI, John Paul II but as we see his adversaries are still a power not to be neglected.

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  44. Anonymous8:29 PM

    Adeodatus, your opinions are really vile.

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  45. Anonymous9:00 PM

    I just wonder how many of those who have left comments are really praying, fasting and doing pennace for the conversion of those cardinals, bishops, priests and religous who have gone too far to the left.
    Only by prayer will this situation change in the Church. Only prayer will help strengthen our Holy Father. It is easy for us outside the Vatican to voice our opinions and how and what the Holy Father should and should not do. But he lives among those wolves...Pray for him, pray the rosary for him, do pennace for him.
    The person who wrote the first comment should be ashamed of him/her self...Have you prayed for our Holy Father, have you done Pennance have you? and this goes to any other person/s who have such negative comments about our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.

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  46. Anonymous10:59 PM

    Anon 21:00 - You must be young. Do you think that your generation discovered prayer, fasting and penance? Are you implying that people throughout the centuries in general and the past forty-five years or so in particular never fasted, prayed and did penance for Holy Mother Church?

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  47. Anonymous11:33 PM

    Adeodatus (a little devilish pride there perhaps?) is an excellent example of the very pharisaism he condemns. The fetish of absolute obedience was repudiated by Benedict himself when he pronounced that the old rite had never been abolished. It was Archbishop Lefebvre who never ceased to insist upon that truth, against all the "loyal" hirelings demanding obedience to Pope Paul, who certainly did think that he had abolished it.
    The absolutists of obedience believe in nothing except obedience. In it they think they have found a formula leading to salvation, when they have in fact found nothing but a totem.
    God save Benedict from such people. It is the Traditionalists, and none other, who are the true friends of the Pope and the Church.

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  48. Anonymous1:10 AM

    Tempesta is a normal brazilian bishop, which translate to: liberal, disobedient...as a rule. Of course there are exceptions. Very few, indeed.

    Sonborn Today.

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  49. Anonymous1:36 AM

    Maybe Fr. Wagner and the Pope felt like they were in a "state of necessity", so they went ahead and decided not to do an episcopal consecration as they originally planned? Because as you know, a state of necessity justifies these sort of things...

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  50. Anonymous5:18 AM

    "Blogger antonio said...

    "Latest from Rome. The church hands back to the russian orthodox church and state the church of S.Nicholas in Bari. With goog wishes from the Holy Father."

    This is speaking about the Russian Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas in Bari, not the Basilica. It was controlled by the municipality. The ownership of the church has now been transferred to the Government of the Russian Federation from the Moscow Patriarchate, not the Roman Catholic Church.

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  51. Anonymous7:02 AM

    @Anonymous23:33:
    You said "Adeodatus (a little devilish pride there perhaps?)...".

    How amusingly/depressingly typical. You can parse a Latin compound and yet you don't know the Fathers.

    But of course you don't know the Fathers. If you knew St. Clement I, you wouldn't align yourself with rebels like Archbolshevik Lefebvre.

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  52. Anonymous8:30 AM

    Adeodatus, don't panic. There will probably be a NO indult for those who cannot adjust to Tradition.

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  53. Anonymous2:32 PM

    On the comments about Archbishop Tempesta, appointed to the See of St. Sebastian of Rio de Janeiro...

    If the Holy Father wanted to appoint a more conservative Archbishop, at least in the mold of Card. de Araújo Sales, current protoprete of the Holy Roman Church (not ideal liturgically, but at least devoutly obedient to the all the Holy Fathers under which he served and who, on his day, granted Ecclesia Dei permissions provided that everything was done discreetly), and not in the mold of the anti-traditionalist Cardinal Scheid (who blocks the implementation of Summorum Pontificum), then He wouldn't have chosen Tempesta.

    Tempesta is just another liberal, and not surprisingly, holds a few offices in the the Episcopal Conference.

    He can't even use the Portuguese language properly. I can only imagine that it must be difficult to find a Bishop with better domain of the language given the shortage of priests. Either that or now being liberal is the only necessary qualification for episcopal appointment.

    It was rumored that the Holy Father had the current bishop of Petrópolis (Filippo Santoro) on his shortlist (and Bishop Santoro was a member of the last Synod of Bishops by Papal appointment), but it was also rumored that the suggestion of his name was torpedoed by the Brazilian Episcopate, on the grounds that S.E. Mons. Santoro is not a natural-born Brazilian citizen (he is Italian-born, and was ordained a priest for the Italian diocese of Bari, and then appointed auxiliary of Rio de Janeiro under Card. Sales, before being promoted to the See of Petrópolis). Bishop Santoro would have been a more conservative choice, more in the mold of Card. Sales.

    With Tempesta, I fear we end up with a Cardinal Scheid by another name.

    The Holy Father needs to get rid of Cardinal Re and appoint an orthodox man as Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops. But given that the Holy Father can't even get the man of his choice appointed AUXILIARY BISHOP of Linz, I'm starting to think that hoping that the Holy Father will appoint his own man to the Congregation for Bishops is too much of an illusion.

    Give us hope, Sancte Pater!
    We are praying for you!
    You must be strong! Don't flee for fear of the wolves!

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  54. Anonymous4:30 PM

    Anonymous,

    Just because I oppose the evils of the SSPX does not mean that I oppose the Latin Mass, that I am a great supporter of the Novus Ordo, or any of those other things you might imagine.

    I obey the Pope. Some people evidently live in a binary universe where obedience to the Pope means you're a tie dye-wearing liberal attending clown masses, and open contempt of His Holiness means that you're some heroic preserver of Church tradition.

    That binary world is the invention of a warped and dissident imagination, and has nothing to do with the real world.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous4:41 PM

    NB - Adeodatus was banned from Fr. Z's blog.

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  56. Anonymous5:16 PM

    The poor Adeodatus knows Saint Clement but doesn't know Saint Thomas Aquinas on legitimate oedience

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  57. Anonymous5:57 PM

    "Dispensed" is the correct term and, once had had been "elected" to the see (titular), thenceforth he is known as Monsignor. At the moment of the dispensation, he was still titular bishop-elect of whatever. This is not the first time such a thing has occurred. In the past, however, such refusals were not made public and the appointment simply never came to light.

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  58. So let's see here.

    The Pope has been publicly humiliated in Linz.

    The (Federal grand jury investigative target) Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles declares that Bishop Williamson is not a member of the Catholic Church, and bans him from all Church properties in Los Angeles.

    The same (Federal grand jury investigative target) Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles states that Christ is not present in the Tridentine Mass.

    Whew. At least we can all be proud of ourselves for making sure that dangerous Williamson fellow got what for from all us prudent type Catholics!

    Move along now.

    Nothing to see here.

    Nice job, Rorate.

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  59. When and where did Cardinal Mahony express the heresy that Christ is not present at the Tridentine Mass and claim that Bishop Williamson is not a member of the Catholic Church? I don't doubt you, seeing it's Cardinal Mahony we're talking about. I'd just like to know what he said.

    ReplyDelete
  60. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2009/03/holocaustdenyin.html
    Excerpt:

    "In the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Williamson is hereby banned from entering any Catholic church, school or other facility, until he and his group comply fully and unequivocally with the Vatican's directives regarding the Holocaust. Later this year, I, Cardinal Mahony, will visit Israel and pay my respects to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust at the Yad Vashem Memorial in Jerusalem. Holocaust deniers like Williamson will find no sympathetic ear or place of refuge in the Catholic Church, of which he is not --- and may never become --- a member."


    http://recongress.org/chat2009.htm

    Excerpt:

    Ann Scolari: What are your thoughts on the Trindentine mass?

    Cardinal Mahony: Ann: The Tridentine Mass was meant for those who could not make the transition from Latin to English [or other languages] after the Council. But there is no participation by the people, and I don't believe that instills the spirit of Christ among us.

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  61. Anonymous2:14 AM

    Non Praevalebunt!

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  62. Anonymous1:36 PM

    Pastoral effectiveness for BXVI sometimes means not tying himself to people who spout the kind of imprudent outbursts as we see with the likes of Williamson and Wagner.

    He commands too much respect among the wise, learned and holy to sacrifice his credibility in such a way.

    God bless and save this Pope who thinks and prays before he acts.

    Try a little patience...

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  63. Thanks for providing the quotes from that pathetic joke of a cardinal, Mr. DeLano. His decree, of course is canonically null and void and unenforceable, and materially if not formally heretical, since the Pope has remitted Bishop Williamson’s excommunication, thus giving him the right to enter ANY Catholic Church to receive the sacrament of penance (not that Bishop Williamson would want to do so in one of Cardinal Mahony’s churches). Cardinal Mahony also denies the faith of the Church regarding membership in the Catholic Church. Like it or not, Bishop Williamson is certainly a member of the Catholic Church. The words “may never become” are especially interesting. Is he saying that Bishop Williamson isn’t a member and “possibly might not ever” become a member, or is he actually elevating himself above the dignity and power of the Blessed Trinity in pronouncing that Bishop Williamson will never, ever be a Catholic? Whatever he means, he is wrong and no Catholic need pay his blitherings any mind.

    As for his comments on the Tridentine Mass, he isn’t actually denying that Christ is present. Rather, his non-Catholic liturgical theology had led him to the erroneous claim that the people do not participate in the celebration of the traditional Roman Rite, and that therefore the Mass doesn’t instill Christ’s spirit among the faithful who assist at traditional Masses (as if it were possible to assist at a Mass without participating).

    In short, Cardinal Mahony is a material if not a formal heretic. But most of us here probably already knew that.

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  64. Pastoral effectiveness for BXVI sometimes means not tying himself to people who spout the kind of imprudent outbursts as we see with the likes of Williamson and Wagner.

    “Imprudent outbursts”? Bishop Williamson sure, but not Msgr. Wagner. Bishop Williamson's "outburst" wasn't just imprudent, and Msgr. Wagner's "imprudences" weren't "outbursts."

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  65. Jordanes: Material heretic for Mahony? LOL! As someone trapped in his archdiocese, I'll have to say formal...

    ReplyDelete

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