Rorate Caeli

Anglican-Vatican Rumblings

The Bolletino today has a noteworthy announcement of a press conference scheduled for Tuesday, 20 October 2009, in the John Paul II Hall of the Vatican Press Office:

Si informano i giornalisti accreditati che domani, martedì 20 ottobre 2009, alle ore 11.00, nell’Aula Giovanni Paolo II della Sala Stampa della Santa Sede, si terrà un briefing su un tema attinente ai rapporti con gli Anglicani, cui parteciperanno l’ Card. William Joseph Levada, Prefetto della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede e S.E. Mons. Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., Segretario della Congregazione per il Culto Divino e la Disciplina dei Sacramenti.


We inform accredited journalists that tomorrow, Tuesday, 20 October 2009, at 11 a.m., in the John Paul II Hall of the Press Office of the Holy See, a briefing will be held on a theme pertaining to the relationship with the Anglicans, at which His Eminence Cardinal William Joseph Levada, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and His Excellency Msgr. Joseph Augustine Di Noia OP, Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments will take part.

Father John Zuhlsdorf offers these observations and speculations:

The main speakers will be the Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, His Eminence Card. Levada and the fomer Sotto-Segretario of the same CDF, now Secretary of the Cong. for Divine Worship H.E. Augustine DiNoia, OP.

This all makes sense if…if… this is to announce that there will be a reunion of Traditional Anglicans with the Catholic Church. This would be in the bailiwick of the CDF. And Archbp. DiNoia would have been involved when he was at the CDF.

However, a group of Traditional Anglicans would also no doubt have the Anglican Use for their liturgy, and therefore having the English speaking Secretary who had been at the CDF, rather than the Spanish speaking Prefect of the CDW makes perfect sense.

So… I suspect this is about the reunion of the so-called Traditional Anglicans.

Damian Thompson also has received information that Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Westminster and Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams of Canterbury will host a press conference at 10 a.m., Tuesday, 20 October, at 39 Eccleston Square, London. Thompson reasonably observes, "I cannot believe that the two press conferences are not directly related."

Those who desire and pray for the reunion of the Anglicans with the Catholic Church, and who hope for the union and integration of the Traditional Anglicans into the Church, will be eagerly anticipating the news Tuesday morning.

[Our thanks to Mr. Peter Karl T. Perkins for promptly bringing this to Rorate's attention.]


Garrett said...

Everyone should stop right now and say a prayer that these Anglicans return to the Church.

Oneros said...

Pure speculation right now. For all we know (and I truly fear this might be the case)...Rome may be about to reverse Apostolicae Curae somehow and say Anglican Orders (where women have not interrupted the succession) are valid. Possibly the argument will go "they MAY have been invalid then, but Old Catholic and Orthodox lines have re-vivified them"...

I just dont see why Rowan Williams would have a press conference regarding the TAC.

Jean said...

Indeed, Our Lady of Good Council, intercede for them and us. And it's about time, concerning the Traditional Anglicans. They've been truly patient, and have given every indication of humble and faithful adherence to the magisterium. But for reticent Vat II political inertia, this might have happened quite some time ago. May it be as you have speculated!

Jordanes said...

Yes, it's only speculation, but it's well worth noticing.

As for why Rowan Williams would have a press conference on TAC union: damage control.

I doubt they would go to the trouble of having two press conferences to "reverse" Apostolicae Curae, since the argument you suggest is not a reversal of AC at all.

Br. Stephen, O.Cist said...

No, there's no reason for the ABC to comment on TAC, but there might be something closer to home.

Jordanes said...

Why wouldn't the honorary head of the Anglican communion have something to say about a group of Anglicans becoming Catholic?

Anyway, we'll find out one way or the other tomorrow.

Just another mad Catholic said...

Our Lady of Walsingham, pray for your Children

Antonio said...

Perhaps it's not just about the TAC.
A personal prelature or something for all "traditional anglicans"?
Otherwise, I can't understand why Rowan Williams should be involved...

Paul Haley said...

I pray that the TAC will be accepted into the Catholic Church and that they will be a cause for further "unifying measures" in our beloved Church.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

I can not imagine anything other than the TAC as the subject of this press conference. My main point of curiosity will be to see what terms Rome has laid down for them. Given that their hierarchy has already signed off on all Roman Catholic dogma without exception the only issues unresolved are disciplinary.

I would be stunned if they got sui juris status as a self governing western uniate church. But something less than that might still be possible. Maybe they will use the old English (Knott) Missal. There is of course no question of their "bishops" retaining their miters. But I wonder what Rome's position will be with regard to their tradition of a married clergy?

If I had to guess, I would say Rome will give a one time pass on their current clergy but require new priests to be celibate. I also expect that they will all be required to undergo ordination (at the very least conditionally). As for concerns that Rome might recognize their orders because once upon a time an Orthodox bishop may or may not (it's not really clear) have been present at, or was involved in one of their episcopal consecrations; that is almost inconceivable. If no Orthodox church recognizes their orders (and we don't) why would you?


Anonymous said...

While I agree with most of Fr. Zuhldorf's statements on this, I think that he writes inaccurately about the "Anglican Use", which is the liturgy approved by Rome for Anglicans in 1983 and used in about ten Catholic communities in the U.S.A. (and restricted to that country), most of them in Texas.

None of the TAC people want the Anglican Use and none of them (as far as I know) use it. This means that they don't have and don't want to have the texts. So I don't think that it will be the A.U. liturgy. What will be allowed in regard to the liturgy is a fascinating question. Perhaps we shall know more about that tomorrow. It is a very difficult problem because the TAC priests in India (where most of them are, by the way) do not have the cash to buy new Altar Missals.

I pray that it won't be the A.U. because this has the horrid and completely unaccepatable (and unCatholic-in-spirit) N.O. Offertory, that Blessed are You [sic--or sick] Lord God of all Cration thingy, in which, following the heresiarch Cranmer, the Precious Blood becomes our "spiritual drink" (suggesting an attack on transubstantiaion).

Frankly, the TAC Masses are far more Catholic in terms of texts than is the Novus Ordo. But then I'd say that TAC members are far more Catholic in spirit than are most N.O. Catholics.


Anonymous said...

Dear Antonio:

Please do not utter those sinful words, "personal prelature". Those words are perverse; they are evil. You could go to hell for thinking them, not just saying them. It is best not even to mention that structure, in case saying it curses these poor people and they get stuck with one. Probably my greatest fear is of the dentist, so I try (whoops!) not to think about him. Think about the dentist and you suddenly feel those cavities.

Let us pray that, at the very least, the TAC will be offered a 'ritual' apostolic administration and NOT a personal prelature. My contacts in the TAC suggest that an apostolic administration is probably coming and that even this is only an intermediate step to something more. Keep in mind that the TAC has about 25 dioceses and other auxiliary bishops. It would be hard to reduce that even to an apostolic administration, which is equal in law to only ONE diocese. To reduce it to a p.p. would be risiible.

It may be that this meeting is not about the TAC. Let's just pray on this for now.


Anonymous said...

What will the TAC be offered:

Some educated guesses:

1. At least two or three of their 25 bishops will be consecrated to the episcopate. All those consecrated will be unmarried. They will likely include their unmarried Canadian leader, Bishop Peter Wilkinson.

2. The liturgical problem is large. They will not want the A.U. liturgy. Pray that it not be forced on them, even temporarily. I don't think that this can happen anyway, however, because their numerous priests in India and Pakistan simply cannot afford to buy new Altar Missals (esp. translated into Hindi, Maharastri, Urdu, Tamil, Orissa, Bengali, &c.).

Please keep in mind that four-fifths of the TAC members are in India, not in merry olde Englande. Archbishop Samuel Prakash, their metropolitan there, is the most important man in their communion, after their Primate, of course.

I'm guessing that, pro tempore, they'll be allowed to keep their prayerbook liturgies provided that they substitute the Roman Canon for their prayerbook Canons, or they might be allowed to use 'any Roman Eucharistic Prayer'.

3. They will be allowed to keep their married priests and deacons but not married bishops; and there will be no future ordaining of married men to any Holy Order. However, in future, Anglican married priests will be able to transfer to them.


Anonymous said...

If the TAC is brought into the Church and if the provisions of the agreement grant a traditional liturgy, then may I suggest that traditionalists put their money where their mouth is and help the parishes in India purchase the needed materials.

Anonymous said...

Given that the Pope possesses the authority to represent and speak for the Catholic Church...

...and given that the TAC lack such a person...

...should a reunion be announced someday, what percentage of TAC members would enter into the Catholic Church?


Anonymous said...

The majority of TAC members live in India?

If that is correct, and even if incorrect , what does a Rome-TAC union (400,000 people?) mean for the state of Latin Church Liturgy (Novus Ordo, for all practical purposes) in say...

...Dallas, London, Paris, New York, Modesto, California?


Anonymous said...

Should the day arrive (tomorrow?) when Rome brings TAC into the Church, do the secular news media in the, United States, for example, give said story "front page" play (and for how long)?


Who would serve TAC parishes during the time when TAC priests would be ordained as Catholic priests?

Thank you.


Jordanes said...

Given that the Pope possesses the authority to represent and speak for the Catholic Church...

...and given that the TAC lack such a person...

Their primate is the Most Rev. John Hepworth.

...should a reunion be announced someday, what percentage of TAC members would enter into the Catholic Church?

Close to all of them, if not all. Every single one of their priests and bishops has already formally expressed their acceptance of and adherence to the Catholic Faith. The TAC as a body has formally petitioned to be received into the Catholic Church.

Anonymous said...

To enlarge on Jordanes's comments:

All the bishops and vicars-general present at their international meeting at Portsmouth (or Southampton: I've forgotten which) voted for union with Rome. A very small number of them were absent. it is questionable if their Irish vicar-general, who was absent, will go along with a deal. But he only has three parishes, two in the six counties and one in the Republic.

Not all their priests have signed on but the vast majority support a deal. A few, most of these in the U.S.A., might not accept a deal. But I've heard that the deal is clergy-driven. Most of those not supporting a deal would be laics. And for those laics who pull out, at least as many other Anglicans will likely join up. So it's not a problem.

Thanks, Jordanes.


Woody said...

We in the AU await our TAC brethren with bated breath and beat-skipping hearts at the moment. Hopefully the news will be as good as is being speculated. Peter as usual has it right about the Book of Divine Worship: it is not favored by TAC folks, who tend to use the Anglican Missal (TLM in English) or a version thereof, or esle one of the traditional BCPs (I presume with the interpolated texts for the liturgy which come out close to the TLM); you can see what one of their churches does at the Saint Mary of the Angels (Hollywood) web site, under "Tracts", I believe.

There is a persistent rumour, however, that the BDW itself may also be undergoing a process of review and revision. Whether this will be done so as to afford all Catholics of Anglican heritage a common service book, or whether it is merely a process of updating the translations of the BDW parts that are taken from the Novus Ordo will remain to be seen.

Please pray for us. We in the AU have been kind of marginalized for so long in the Church, it would be so wonderful to have Anglican Catholic (or Catholic Anglican, whatever) brethren and churches everywhere. Saint Mary's is a wonderful small parish that is more Catholic now than 95% of the Archdiocese of L.A., I can tell you for sure.

Anonymous said...

To answer Tim's question, there will likely be a transition period. I imagine that their bishops will come in on one day as bishops (well, three or four of them of the 25), then their priests, then the other deacons, then their laics.


Antonio said...

O.K., Mr. P.K.T.P., not a "p.p." but an apostolic administration.

But I still think that tomorrow we will have news that may be positive not only for the TAC but for every anglo-catholic thinking on "swimming the Tiber".
Let us pray...

Anonymous said...

Thanks to the kind people who have answered my questions.

Additional questions please...

1. How many TAC "priests" exist...and any guesses as to how many would become Catholic priests?

2. Does TAC generate a wealth of priestly and religious vocations?

3. Sheer speculation please...will the Rowan Williams conference promote the...

"Not to worry, liberals, as God continues to use the "mainstream" Anglican un-Communion as a path toward salvation...

...we (Rome)remain committed fully to the pursuit of ecumenism with Canterbury?

...we hold in high esteem the dead-in-the-water Anglican un-Communion."

3. there anything about TAC which liberal Catholics, Protestants and Jews could or will attempt to label as "anti-semitic?"

Thank you.


Jordanes said...

Thanks for your clarifications and corrections, Mr. Perkins. I think you're probably the expert on this question, so it would be wisest for all if you answered queries about the TAC and their movement toward unity with the Catholic Church.

In my opinion, this is ecumenism done right. Happily, Cardinal Kasper is not a party to tomorrow's events -- on vacation or whatever.

Jordanes said...

Tim, I'll leave your other questions to those more knowledgeable, but as for these:

Sheer speculation please...will the Rowan Williams conference promote the...

"Not to worry, liberals, as God continues to use the "mainstream" Anglican un-Communion as a path toward salvation...

...we (Rome)remain committed fully to the pursuit of ecumenism with Canterbury?

...we hold in high esteem the dead-in-the-water Anglican un-Communion."

I hope not . . . or I rather wish not . . . but I suspect it probably will. there anything about TAC which liberal Catholics, Protestants and Jews could or will attempt to label as "anti-semitic?"

Probably -- but then there are things about liberal Catholics that Protestants and Jews can and do label as anti-Semitic. To many Jews, Christianity is essentially anti-Semitic.

I don't expect there to be any anti-Semitic scandal rearing up to derail the TAC's union with the Church.

Anonymous said...

Woody, is the following the TAC parish that you referenced?

The photograph depicts a cat in the Sacristy. The cat rests atop vestments.

Said cat is also lying just inches from the Chalice.

That is a disturbing photo.


becket said...

If it is true. Here is some psyc up music for all.


Jordanes said...

What's so disturbing, Tim? Are you afraid that they don't cleanse and purify their sacred vessels, or never clean their vestments of cat hair?

It's just one of God's creatures nestling comfortably in His presence. Don't be troubled.

Jordanes said...

Thanks for that, Becket. Sublime.

Anonymous said...

In regards to Apostlicae Curae rumors, back in '98 then Cardinal Ratzinger used it as an example of truths taught definitively and infallibly which, while not revealed like dogmas, are connected to revelation by a logical or historical necessity. He placed it in the same category as canonizations.

Anyway, I hope the announcement will regard something good for souls, and not a disappointment...

Anonymous said...

To answer some of Tim's qq.

First, I don't know how many priests they have. In Canada, they have about sixty priests; in the U.S.A., I would guess that they have eighty; in the U.K., about twenty; I'd guess about twenty or thirty in Southern Africa and about another thirty in Australia. They only have two in N.Z. and three in Japan but about fifteen in Melanesia.

The real question, though, is how many they have for their province in India, which consists of about ten dioceses.

Worldwide, off the top of my head, they have dioceses as follows:

One for Canada, seven for the U.S.A., one for Central America and Mexico, ten for India, one for Pakistan, three for Zululand, one for Southern Africa, one for Melanesia, one for Japan (for only three priests), one for Australia.

Then they have churches headed by vicars-general. One for Great Britain, one for Ireland, one for the Congo, one for Zambia, one for Kenya (may be a diocese now), one for the Cameroon, one for Mozambique, one now, I think, for New Zealand (two priests, one deacon).

They have missions in Switzerland, Normandy, and somewhere in South America (one priest each).

They have about 400,000 members, most of whom are in India.


Anonymous said...

To the person here who is wondering if Apostolicæ Curæ is being revisited, I can only ask: What have you been smoking?

A reconsideration of that is not in the cards.

There is a possibility that the announcement tomorrow will not be about the TAC but about the FiF Anglican gang, with that Broadhurst character involved. But it is more likely to be a TAC affair.


asshur said...

My two pennys worth guess ...
1) It's not directly related to TAC (their websites are silent)
2) May be related to an "Anglican Usage" framework worldwide
3) Coming from the CDF, a "monitio" about PECUSA and other so called "liberal churches", denying them "christian status" (would be earth shattering, but not impossible)

Is good not to see Card. Kasper anywhere, but Dr.Williams appearance makes me mad ...

Anonymous said...

from Damian Thompson

Pope announces plans for Anglicans to convert en masse
The Vatican has announced that Pope Benedict is setting up special provision for Anglicans, including married clergy, who want to convert to Rome together, preserving aspects of Anglican liturgy. They will be given their own pastoral supervision, according to this press release from the Vatican:

“In this Apostolic Constitution the Holy Father has introduced a canonical structure that provides for such corporate reunion by establishing Personal Ordinariates which will allow former Anglicans to enter full communion with the Catholic Church while preserving elements of the distinctive Anglican spiritual and liturgical patrimony.”

More on this very important story later. But this is clearly a historic gesture by Pope Benedict which will encourage thousands of disaffected Anglicans to become Roman Catholics.


There are no personal ordinariates in the Church at present. This means that the new apostolic constitution must create one. A territorial ordinariate is for Eastern churches in Western countries and is cumulative with the authority of a local Roman ordinary. This would be different: it presumably means very large regional structures equivalent in law to dioceses and NOT cumulative with the authority of local bishops, although that remains to be seen. But it must be; otherwise, it would not be a 'personal' structure.

SECOND COMMENT: Thank the Good Lord Jesus Christ that it is to be equivalent in law to a diocese and is not a personal prelature. Alleluia!

THIRD COMMENT: This may be a model for structures for the Traditional Laitn Mass. It'll likely scare the pants off of obstructionist bishops. I mean you, Archbishop Jordan of Reims. I'm thinking of you, Bishop Ramirez of Las Cruces.


Anonymous said...

Jordanes, get your slippers and your gown on and post the story from Damian Thompson.

Perhaps Mr. Palad, in the different time zone, could do this? It's only the most important news item here since January.


Anonymous said...

Here's the fuller joint statement from Archbishop Nichols of Westminster and the pagan Archdruid with the woolly eyebrows:

Joint Statement by The Archbishop of Westminster and The Archbishop of Canterbury
Tuesday 20 October 2009

Today's announcement of the Apostolic Constitution is a response by Pope Benedict XVI to a number of requests over the past few years to the Holy See from groups of Anglicans who wish to enter into full visible communion with the Roman Catholic Church, and are willing to declare that they share a common Catholic faith and accept the Petrine ministry as willed by Christ for his Church.

Pope Benedict XVI has approved, within the Apostolic Constitution, a canonical structure that provides for Personal Ordinariates, which will allow former Anglicans to enter full communion with the Catholic Church while preserving elements of distinctive Anglican spiritual patrimony.

The announcement of this Apostolic Constitution brings to an end a period of uncertainty for such groups who have nurtured hopes of new ways of embracing unity with the Catholic Church. It will now be up to those who have made requests to the Holy See to respond to the Apostolic Constitution.

The Apostolic Constitution is further recognition of the substantial overlap in faith, doctrine and spirituality between the Catholic Church and the Anglican tradition. Without the dialogues of the past forty years, this recognition would not have been possible, nor would hopes for full visible unity have been nurtured. In this sense, this Apostolic Constitution is one consequence of ecumenical dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion.

The on-going official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion provides the basis for our continuing cooperation. The Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC) and International Anglican Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission (IARCCUM) agreements make clear the path we will follow together.

With God's grace and prayer we are determined that our on-going mutual commitment and consultation on these and other matters should continue to be strengthened. Locally, in the spirit of IARCCUM, we look forward to building on the pattern of shared meetings between the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales and the Church of England's House of Bishops with a focus on our common mission. Joint days of reflection and prayer were begun in Leeds in 2006 and continued in Lambeth in 2008, and further meetings are in preparation. This close cooperation will continue as we grow together in unity and mission, in witness to the Gospel in our country, and in the Church at large.

+ Vincent + Rowan

Anonymous said...

Comment on the last entry:

Notice how the TAC is, at least at the moment, being ignored. There is an oblique reference to it: it and other such riff raff can join these new structures. There is no offer to accept any TAC bishops per se, although this is not ruled out. The structure, at this point, looks as if it was designed for the Broadhurst Backward in Faith gang. I am wondering if there will be a SEPARATE TAC deal on the side. After all, the TAC has lodged a request and it would be impolite for the C.D.F. not to respond to that specifically.

We shall see.


fr. A.R. said...

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION announcement: from the press release of Rome on the Anglican - Catholic relationship: "In this Apostolic Constitution the Holy Father has introduced a canonical structure that provides for such corporate reunion by establishing Personal Ordinariates which will allow former Anglicans to enter full communion with the Catholic Church while preserving elements of the distinctive Anglican spiritual and liturgical patrimony."

Anonymous said...

A new structure called Personal Ordinariate will be established by the Holy Father to accomodate Anglicans who wish to retain their patrimony in communion with the Holy See.

Anonymous said...

IT'S CONFIMED. Reuters and Associated Press have got the news.

Anonymous said...

Here is the latest, with my comments and corrections added in asterisks:

"According to a Vatican “note” released this morning, married men may serve as priests in the new ordinariates, but they may not be ordained as bishops.

*exactly as I predicted*

The details will be presented in a new apostolic constitution from Pope Benedict XVI, expected to be issued shortly.
The Vatican note described the new “personal ordinariates” as similar to the structures created throughout the world to provide pastoral care for members of the military and their families.

*Yes, they are similiar, but with an interesting difference which need not concerrn us here.*

The structures are, in effect, non-territorial dioceses, provided over by a bishop and with their own priests and seminarians.

*Comment: they are personal rather than territorial so that incoming groups of Anglicans can maintain internal unity under a particular prelate (the personal ordinary). He could be assisted by auxiliary bishops, as an ordinariate is a particular church, UNLIKE a personal prelature*

A personal ordinariate is also similar to the canonical status of “personal prelature,” currently held by only one Catholic group: Opus Dei.

*This comment by the ignorant journalist reporting the story is TOTALLY FALSE. A p.p. is not a particular church and requires the permission of the local ordinary to erect parishes in his territory. The new structure does not. They never given up, even when proved wrong ceaselessly.*

The note said the ordinariates will be created in consultation with the national bishops’ conference of a given country.

*This is a general norm to be found in the canons regarding both 'ritual' particular churches (vide Canon 372.2) and personal prelatures (cf. 294). It is commonly understood that such a provision is waived if the joining group is international in scope. It was waived even in the case of Opus Dei, which is only a p.p. and not a particular church.

It follows logically that the TAC could maintain its unity and ask for an international personal ordinariate. But it would have to give up its 25 diocesan bishops(many of them married) and put all its clergy under one single unmarried bishop, such as the Canadian Bishop Peter Wilkinson.

This new solution is extremely flexible. I am happy to say that it is really my idea of a 'ritual' apostolic administration writ large--but under a different name. Why the difference? Because apostolic administrations, in practice (although not in potential) do not cover huge territories.

It's not a personal prelature. Alleluia! Romanus is defeated! And now we have a model for the T.L.M.!


Anonymous said...

Romanus is defeated!

Now we have the right model for the T.L.M.: an international personal ordinariate. Just the structure I have been advocating but under a different name. Alleluia! Down with personal prelatures! (Except that we want one for Opus Dei because we don't like Opus Dopus.)


Anonymous said...

On asshur's comments:

You are generally right. I wondered when the TAC was not mentioned by name in the brief of yesterday. However, if you read the joint comment of +Nichols and that pagan Archdruid, Williams, you will see that the TAC is included by implication.

The TAC will now be able to ask for entry as an international personal ordinariate. Since it is international, the consultation with bishops' conferences will be waived. This is standard procedure and was done for Opus Dei's p.p., and on the same grounds.

The TAC will now have to unite under one single unmarried bishop, such as Canadian Peter Wilkinson or the very senior and revered unmarried Bishop Robert Mercer, retired but in good health in England. The other unmarried bishops could be auxiliary bishops, since a personal ordinariate is equivalent in law to a diocese and can therefore have them.

It will have to make a special deal in regard to its liturgy. I suggest that they get cracking. A possibility is for an interim Mass from what they already have regionally but including the Roman Offertory and the Roman Canon. Over time, they could devise a universal liturgy for their structure. Rome will still have to vet their liturgies, so they have their work cut out for them.

Note that this new provision allows differing Anglican applicants to exist in overlapping territories. The best parallel is that of the various Eastern Catholic churches. The Ukrainian church in New York is not under the same bishop as the Armenian bishop in New York--and neither of them is the Cardinal Archbishop there.


Anonymous said...

To turn from the TAC for just a moment, note that this new solution will enable huge numbers of Forward in Faith Anglicans in England (about 800 of them with their 'flying three bishops') to cross the Tiber. It will also allow various GAFCON Anglicans in the Third World to cross over and yet keep their evangelical character. This is because ordinariates which are personal can exist in one another's territories. For example, the entire Anglican Church of Nigeria (evangelical) could come across but, if there are currently two tiny TAC parishes in Nigeria (Anglo-Catholic in character), they would be under their TAC bishop in a SEPARATE jurisdiction covering the whole world and therefore including Nigeria.

Brilliant. Benedict XVI is brilliant! The long term implication is the complete annihilation of the Canterbury Communion--or its reduction to a handfull of liberals who believe in fancy dress but not in God. Now there's an outcome devoutly to be wished for!


Wolfwood said...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here: this will have virtually no effect on the Evangelical portions of Anglicanism out there, nor on the Progressive elements. What it will do is sift the Anglo-Catholics. Not all Anglo-Catholics are Anglo-Papists; my understanding is that Forward in Faith, for instance, as an organization is more "high church" than Papist.

At present, TAC is the only Anglican group of which I'm aware likely to make this decision corporately. The announcement doesn't mention TAC because there's no reason to do so: it would simply limit things unnecessarily. If a CofE or TEC parish or even diocese (and there are a few who might) chose to come in independently of TAC for whatever reason, they could do so. If TAC wants to split into, say, Western and Indian branches for the purpose of organization within this plan, it could do so as well.

This is a joyous day, and I look forward to seeing the actual document in a few weeks!

Jordanes said...

What a truly beautiful morning this is! The news is even better than expected!

Anonymous said...

Jordanes's analysis is correct. This is a joyous day indeed:

First, the TAC can enter corporately. As I commented before, the provision about consulting the episcopal conferences concerned is there for personal particular churches, such as dioceses and apostolic administrations (Canon 372.2), and also for personal prelatures (Canon 294). In all cases, it is customarily waived if the applicant is international. So the TAC can enter as one internatinal de facto personal diocese.

Second, and more importantly for the future, entire Anglican national churches can enter, each keeping its own unity and traditions. It means that the Nigerian Anglicans, for example, could enter and keep their evangelical Anglican spirit (similar to our charismoronics). Such new personal ordinariates would be as indepdendent from one another as they are from the local Roman ordinaries.

In my view, longer-term, most of the hugely populous GAFCON Anglican national churches in the Third World (e.g. Nigeria, Uganda, Malaysia) will enter the Catholic Church under these new provisions. And that is where ALL the growth is coming from in the Anglican Communion. This means the death knell of the Canterbury Communion as in international body having real influence. It could reduce the far-left homo Canterbury Communion to a remnant within fifty years.

Groups such as the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA) can now come across but without being associated with the TAC, which can ASLO come across. Each of these groups would be separate from one another in overlapping jurisdictions to which individuals and parish properties are attached, just like the overlapping Eastern Catholic churches in the U.S.A.

It's brilliant.


Anonymous said...


First of all, TAC will NOT have to split. The provision about episcopal conferences being consulted is merely a copying of Canon 294 and 372.2 into the new apostolic constitution to ensure that the principle of collegiality is respected. It is a tipping of the hat to the local Roman ordinaries, a showing of respect to them. It is standard practice already that this provision is waived in the case of international applicants. THIS WAS DONE when Opus Dei got its p.p. and the episcopal conferences were NOT consulted owing to its international scope. So there is ALREADY precedence for waiving this provision.

Secondly, it DOES affect evangelical Anglican groups. There is nothing in this new arrangement which restricts it to Anglo-Catholic or to Anglo-Papalist groups. The Catholic Church (unfortunately) already has evangelical look-alikes of her own, morons who call themselves 'charismatics'. There is nothing to stop an evangelical Anglican Church of an entire country (or of a diocese) from getting a personal ordinariate of its own under this plan. That's the beauty of it. It enables evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics and Anglo-Papalists and High-Churchers all to have their own personal ordinariates, making them 100% independent of one another as well as of the local Roman ordinaries.

The GAFCON churches will EVENTUALLY come over under this plan, one by one. Many smaller Anglican groups will also come over. Why? Because it's their best (even only) chance for survival. Many of them are dying.

People in the West misunderstand the issue for the GAFCON. It is all about CULTURAL norms. The people in parts of Africa simply cannot accept homerasty, in particular, and any church which does accept it is dead in the water. Archbishop Akinola of the Nigerians will cross the Tiber in a heartbeat under this arrangement. It won't happen tomorrow before breakfast but it will happen, probably in less than ten years. I predict that all the GAFCON Anglican churches will cross the Tiber under this plan, each one keeping its nutty evangelical spirit and Anglican traditions. The nutty spirit of the evangelicals is no worse than what our charismoronics have. It will be tempered over time by contact with Rome.


Anonymous said...

I note that the GAFCON Anglicans, who are about two-fifths of all those in the Canterburian Communion, will eventually cross the Tiber under this. They sure as hell won't stay under the druid with the wild eyebrows and the Schorri Whore, and continuation with no international figure of repute is not what they want: the Pope must replace the ArchDruid of Canterbury.

I also note that the evangelicals, who will not tolerate the sodomy Church of Canterbury, are the only source of money and converts for the sad in the Anglican Communion today. Take them away and the rest will shrink to an insignificant gang, having no more presence internationally than has the Seventh Day Adventists.

It must be a bad day for Cardinal Kasper. He's well over 75 now. Time to go. Give him a shove, Your Holiness.



Wolfwood said...

I don't understand why anyone would think this affects the Evangelicals. They have no interest in Rome; they're high-church Protestants and they tend to be doing fairly okay for themselves. They're not going to swim the Tiber because they don't want to be in Rome and submit to the Pope. How are they going to become a part of the Catholic Church if they don't accept the Pope?