Rorate Caeli

Polish Bishops and the Traditional Latin Mass

The Polish Catholic website Nowy Ruch Liturgiczny has published an English-language article offering "an account demonstrating bishops, dates and occasions, and forms of participation or offering Masses according to Missale Romanum of the blessed John XXIII of 1962. The account includes celebrations across the country and bishops residing in Poland". The list runs from November 14, 1998 to May 23, 2010, Pentecost Sunday. (Magnificent pictures of the Solemn Pontifical Mass offered in Krakow on that day by Bishop Tadeusz Pieronek can be found here.)
Hopefully, similar lists can be compiled for all countries where at least one bishop has offered the TLM.


Roger Buck said...

This comment is off-topic - but I am not sure where to put it, as the most obvious place does not have comments open ...

Still I want to CONGRATULATE the decision you undertook here for silentium.


"We really are so saddened by the comments we are forced to reject or delete ..."

I am sorry for your sadness but your sadness - your Christian feeling I would say - only serves to heighten my already considerable respect for you.

This bile, this bitterness, this sarcasm, this intellectual arrogance as you put it, is mysterious to me, and I hope to many others as well.

I also wonder how much, how very dearly it is COSTING the Defence of the Tradition?

Costing us all, when such attitudes are all-too-evident to less traditional Catholics.

I would like to think that part of the problem here is that - by the Grace of God, not intellectual superiority! - Traditionalists are acutely AWAKE to the Tragedy of the so-called "Spirit of Vatican II".

To be awake to this Tragedy is far better than to be asleep, naturally. It is also of course better than apathy.

A certain anger is better than sleepiness or apathy ...

Still this anger of being awake can easily curdle into bitterness.

These are matters that really deserve very deep prayer and contemplation.

As I have tried to contemplate it - trying to look too at the bitterness in my own heart - it seems to me that the less bitter I will become, the more I can feel truly saddened by the Tragedy.

This is why paradoxically, I am glad to hear you are "saddened". Such feeling is important. Sadness and bitterness are very different things ...

Thank you once more for the silentium. I pray this call for contemplation will bear rich fruit.

New Catholic said...

Thank you very much, Mr. Buck.


Mr. Ortiz said...

Thank you, Mr. Buck, as well!

Excellent comment.

We need to fill our "lamps" with the oil of charity, so our light will really be His light, and will attract souls to the Truth.

I usually attend a NO parish. It's not easy. So many are simply unaware of what is happening. We are not better than they. We, to the extent we live the graces we receive, have been blessed. What if we had not met that priest, read that book, made that friendship, gone to that parish?

Only God knows what each soul has been given. WE can and must judge objective conditions, but souls deserve all charity, even if at times that charity is stern, it must still breath the air of prayer, patience, and the supernatural.

Londiniensis said...

The Polish site would do well not to head their list of tradition-friendly bishops with disgraced "genuinely open and spontaneous" Archbishop Juliusz Paetz.

Woodlawn said...

A hearty and sincere 'thank you' to New Catholic and the others at Rorate Caeli for all your hard work on this blog and to Roger Buck for your comment and observations.

I find the widespread apathy in the Church to be most disturbing. At least the revolutionaries and Modernists have a certain passion for the destruction they wreak but the apathetic... they could not care less.

I sometimes find it hard not to show a certain bitterness but I try to quickly realize that bitterness will do no good at all.

As I tell my children, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.


Vox Cantoris said...

Again off topic; I deeply appreciate this blog and all of its collaborators and I echo the comments of the three commenters above.

May I suggest that most of the problem can be addressed by eliminating the ability to post Anonymous comments.

Best wishes.

David Anthony Domet
Vox Cantoris

Dorothea said...

I grew up in an Irish Catholic community in England. I was a teenager when they started implementing the changes to the Mass. They were all presented as an effort by the Church to make the Mass more inteligible and more accessible. There was no theological discussion with the parishoners as far as I remember. Looking back, I am surprised that there wasn't more of an uproar against the changes. Only one of my uncles made a fuss and became a Lefebvrista but he was not a sympathetic character. He was one of those Jansenist, puritanical, kind of Irish Catholics.
I think that certainly in the traditional Irish Catholic community they accepted the changes because they assumed that the Pope and Church Hierarchy knew what they were doing and they were used to obeying the Church.The Church in Ireland hadn't lived through the Reformation or the French Revolution.
The Mass in England doesn't seem to have been abused as much as it has in the Americas.
I was "lucky " in the sense that I moved to Brazil where the heretical horrors are just "in your face" so to speak. The gay priests, the Communist sermons,the awful feel-good aerobic singing, women receiving Communion half naked. I used to go from Church to Church to find one that was minimally acceptable.
In both cities I lived in I eventually found reverent NO masses but I always felt that there was something lacking. Eventually,(search and yee shall find), I found a Monastery where the Traditional Mass is celebrated.(Familia Maria Beate Virginis, Candeis, Bahia)If you had told me when I was a teenager that I would be so happy to go to a traditional Mass, I would have said you were nuts.
They only have one Mass on Sundays and it is very far from where I live but I make the effort to go always. As I explain to my daughter, I think of all those Catholics in Japan and England who had the Mass suddenly taken away from them and couldn't get to one at all. There was always a remnant that persisted despite the difficulties. I like to hope that I would be one of the remnant.
As for he apathy; most of the Catholics I know in England no longer have as their reference the Catholic culture before the Vatican II;they don't see what's wrong with the NO Mass. Going to Church has become a habit, a bureaucratic excercise they need to do if they want to go to Heaven.
In atheist, socialist,nihilistic Britain the fact that they still believe in God and go to Church is admirable. My cousins are good family types;they work hard;educate their children; pay their taxes and don't have the time or the inclination to engage in theological discussions.
Because of the welfare state and relatively full employment they have had no experince of Divine Providence. They have all been brainwashed into thinking that only the state can provide for them. When I tell that Socialism is idolatry they look at me as though I'm crazy;they think Socialism is good.
They have also accepted the pervasive anti-Catholic culture.When I told a younger cousin I was attending a Mass in Latin, she actually shuddered and said " Mass in Latin, oh no!" again as if I was some kind of religious freak.These are people who have been fed the Da Vinci code etc.
I think that if tomorrow the Pope decreed that the NO Mass was to be replaced by the traditional Mass;they would accept it again without question. After all Christ did say we were sheep. That is why I think the betrayal of Vatican II is all the worse. The shepherds did know better and have lead the Church to perdition. I think that there will only be change when things get much worse.

Anonymous said...

Attn. Dorothea:

I wonder why you judge your Lefebvrista uncle. Leave that to our maker. If there were more like him we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

The way out of this mess is to define precisely what we are bound to by Vatican II beside pastoral regulations. It seems here to be nothing much if anything. The discussions currently in progress over the matter is between the Holy See and those Lefebvristas you seem to disdain.

A.M. LaPietra

Dorothea. said...

I do not at all disdain Lebfevre.I admire him;he was heroic.
I was describing the kind of Catholic my uncle was, and there were many hypocritical Catholics like him in the 50's.
Here in Brazil they were known as "Beatas" Unfortunately, in every religion you get the Pharisees and Hypocrites even though Christ specifically warned us against them.
My uncle was more Puritan than Catholic. And because of Jansenism many Irish Catholics were like him.
He had an "holier than thou attitude" His family would always be at Church and would then gossip about those that didn't go.
He was just some lowly government clerk but looked down on my dad because he was a coal miner.
His family were physically beaten into praying and studying. Of his six children, one committed suicide,one went to prison for child abuse and another had a nervous breakdown.A fourth became a religious knowledge teacher,married had 7 children and then ran off with another teacher. A fifth became a lawyer and was disbarred and the sixth is unemployable and lives on welfare.
I think Christ said that by their fruits you can judge them. Certainly, at the time he was not a good advertisement for Lebfevre.
I was trying to understand why the Vatican II changes were introduced with so little resistance by describing the situation of my Irish Catholic community which was comprised of good hearted but poorly educated country people that had been forced to go to England to look for work. At the time of Vatican II none of them had the theological knowled the changes and therefore could not have predicted that the effects would be so deleterious.

Anonymous said...

Attn. Dorothea:

Thank you for your clarification. Best wishes.

A.M. LaPietra

Paul Haley said...


We all know how difficult it is to conduct a truly Catholic blog in these times and I simply want to thank you and your collaborators for your efforts. At the same time there are those of us who feel impelled to speak out when abuses occur, hoping in some small way to influence those in power to just do the right thing. That said, I think we all can use a "time-out" now and again.

One of the reasons why the changes occurred in the Church in the 60s and beyond was that the people in the pews had little, if anything, to say about them. Hopefully, that will never occur again for the effects of such action are all too visible today. Your blog allows the opportunity for the "pew-sitters" to have their voices heard, as long as it is done with Charity aforethought.

God bless and keep you and yours.

LeonG said...

"I was trying to understand why the Vatican II changes were introduced with so little resistance.."

Changes came in short but regular doses. Some of our beloved priests & bishops encouraged us to accept them as it was for the best intentions they claimed whilst others seemed completely bemused by what was happening. Doubters were criticised and often accused of losing The Faith. Stronger opponents were called schismatics. My parents like some of their contemporaries, received ridicule & were ostracised by many who decided to go NO.

Obedience was a frequent "battle cry" which was perhaps the most effective means of ensuring the masses followed the church into consequent postmodernist chaos.

Jacobitess said...

It's wonderful to see Tradition thriving as it does in Poland when the Novus Ordo itself is so reverently conducted. The sort of abuses in other nations that tend to send Catholics running for the Tridentine Mass are not as prevalent here, so the decision to embrace the beauty of the Extraordinary Form is profoundly laudable.

Everyone keep Poland in your prayers, though! The current election is extremely important, and the battle is not over.