Rorate Caeli

"Christianophobe" European governments

BRUSSELS, Jan 31 (Reuters) - The European Union failed to agree on a statement against the persecution of religious minorities on Monday after Italy objected to the omission of any reference to the protection of Christians.

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said a draft proposed at a meeting of EU foreign ministers expressing concern about increasing numbers of attacks on places of worship and pilgrims showed an "excess of secularism".

"The final text didn't include any mention of Christians, as if we were talking of something else, so I asked the text to be withdrawn, so in fact it has been withdrawn," he told reporters.
Italy and France (!) fought in vain for the reference to Christians, without which the document would not have made sense, considering the Iraqi and Egyptian events of the past couple of months. What has not been widely reported in the English-language media is the list of European nations that blocked the specific reference to Christians. According to Spanish website Libertad Digital, they were: Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus, and Luxembourg. 

Coincidentally (or not), three of these governments have led their respective nations to the brink (actually, beyond the brink) of bankruptcy and have enacted "same-sex marriage" or "partnership" in their nations (moral bankruptcy as well, as it can be seen...)


Anonymous said...

A big thank you to those who rejected a document that didn't contain a reference to our Christian faith!

About the supposed coincidences: there are more states that have enacted that kind of laws, but they (surprisingly?) don't show up on the list of states that objected to references to the Christian faith.

Let's pray that Europe's future will be bright, and (thus) Christian! Or it might end like the Middle East etc., that once were blossoming Christian places, but now find themselves in a very poor state.


Anonymous said...

The Portuguese government (socialist) has been trying to sell portuguese bonds to arab countries and to communist china.

Maybe this is part of the deal ...

Anonymous said...

How can I find out which Irish person was responsible for blocking this? I want to write to him.

Flambeaux said...

However it should be noted that the minister from Italy now upset about this is the one who, a few years ago, promulgated the current rules forbidding EU countries from issuing condemnations that mention a specific religion.

Sauce for the goose...

beng said...

Why wouldn't God abandon Europe?

He had abandoned Israel and the Greek/East for that matter. Now it's the west/Europe.

But Rome is in Europe! If Europe turns Islamic, then the gate of hell hath prevailed!

Reply to objection:
Just because Rome is occupied or even govern by non Christian-friendly people doesn't mean the gates of hell has prevail. In fact Christianity started when Rome persecuted them severely.

beng said...

Old article (26-2-2010 [write date the way the Church has always write them for Pete's sake!]) on Der Spiegel (!!) on how "Christians are now considered... the most persecuted religious group around the world.",1518,druck-680349,00.html

Anonymous said...

Pray for the renewal of Christendom!

S. Petersen said...

Here's a website/blog devoted to this problem:

Anonymous said...

Portugal has blatantly not kept the Faith! Good that "private revelation," viz., Fatima, is not mandatory belief, though many trads hold it as dogma.

Anonymous said...

The gates of hell will not prevail, but that does not mean the possibilty of the church existing "in the catacombs," or underground. This is how the traditional Catholics have already been existing to some extent.

However, I do believe in a world that WILL be dominated by the athiestic order: the clandestine practice of Christianity (particularly authentic, traditional Catholicism) will be the norm.

Many Christians realize the world will become more and more secular until things get so bad, that the world finally cries for Christ's return.

Anonymous said...

Dear beng,

You raise an interesting point, however, one might respond that it was Israel and the Greek (schismatic) East that abandoned God. This would not account for once Catholic North Africa. One could surely argue that Europe has abandoned God.


Anonymous said...

Spain, Portugal, Ireland once vital strongholds of the catholic religion now economically and morally bankrupt countries, abondend the faith entirely.

Anonymous said...


"Portugal has blatantly not kept the Faith! Good that "private revelation," viz., Fatima, is not mandatory belief, though many trads hold it as dogma."

Portugal has, indeed, lost the Faith. However, there are some in Portugal who have kept the Faith. And the promise had no timeline...

LeonG said...

Secularism; anti-christianity; sodomy; infanticide/abortion; artificial birth control; paganism are all excellent bedfellows. Commensurate with this phenomenon is the rise of crimes of aggression and violence which are on the increase in these countries too.

Anonymous said...

Catholic Spain !! ind Juan Carlos will eventually witness the loss of his dynasty one day at this rate. Very, very sad indeed. Even we Americans, look to Spain with such respect for thier Traditions and Catholicity.

Anonymous said...

To the impious soul who just defamed our Lady of Fatima, approved as worthy of belief infallibly by Holy Church.
You are akin to the wicked thief on the cross who, though being spat on and abused by the same persecutors of Christ, turned to Christ and blasphemed him too.

You ingrate! Our Lady promised that the dogma of Faith would always be kept in portugal.

She did not mean that there never would be a great apostasy there. And proof is that Portugal's una voce group is alive and pushing for the dogma of the Faith among a minority of Portuguese.

NC is astute to observe that the nations who opposed the protection of Christians are those who imposed ss "marriage" on their citizens.

If they signed it, their plans to persecute Christians for opposing special privileges for homosexuals will be prosecutable.

France has remained obstinate in its refusal to permit ss "marriage" and is perhaps motivated by a desire to get other EU nations to pull back from too extreme an espousal of the lavender mafias.

Sincerely, Neophyte

Anonymous said...

"To the impious soul who just defamed our Lady of Fatima."

Must one believe in the Fatima apparition to be pious or Catholic?

Pascendi said...

Governments may turn against the Faith, but not necessarily the native population. One must also remember that "elections" are prey to the power of financial and political forces that do not always reflect the nation.

Anonymous said...

We are not required to believe in the Fatima apparitions to be pious Catholics. However do you know of any pious Catholic who does not? Has there been any post Fatima Pope who has publicly or privately expressed any doubt of them? Please enlighten me/us.

A.M. LaPietra

Joao said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
paula said...

I'm not surprised to see the name of Portugal between the impious countries. We must not forget that Portugal is a republic and that, when it was established, the Church was persecuted beyond words, sveral priests were arrested and there were deaths. So, what can we expect? But God is the Lord of history, we just have to endure this kind of martyredom and wait.
"In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph".

BobTrad said...

While these are indeed assailable developments, I nonetheless don't know that we should be blaming these secular folks too much.

Let's, instead, look at the Church Militant having transmogrified into the Church Milquetoast as being at the root of the problem. Second Vaticanists have impaired perennial Catholic teaching on the Social Kingship of Christ, heresy, and schism, and have cut the legs out from underneath their continued efforts on behalf of a Culture of Life and Family.

Anonymous said...

"To the impious soul who just defamed our Lady of Fatima, approved as worthy of belief infallibly by Holy Church.
You are akin to the wicked thief on the cross who, though being spat on and abused by the same persecutors of Christ, turned to Christ and blasphemed him too" Etc......

Such immoderate speech sadly exhibits the fanaticism that very often accompanies devotees to Fatima, which is still only a private revelation.

Anonymous said...

To me Fatima is a private revelation, and nothing demands me to believe it as a dogma.
My Catholic faith is not diminished because I am not a Fatima fan or because I don't infallibly consent to those messages or revelations.
However, I am supposed to respect them as a private belief.

Anonymous said...

"My Catholic faith is not diminished because I am not a Fatima fan or because I don't infallibly consent to those messages or revelations.
However, I am supposed to respect them as a private belief."

But would it be disrespectful or worse "impious" to express why one isn't a "fan" or doesn't consent?

Anonymous said...

"But would it be disrespectful or worse "impious" to express why one isn't a "fan" or doesn't consent?"

Officially, the Church's teaching has permitted and honoured Fatima as a private revelation.
Faithful are invited to respect that, but never imposed.
With all the great veneration it deserves, it is not a dogma.
So, I can express it publicly as I said if before: it is a private revelation and on that ground, a personal choice.
For the record, I consider myself a traditionalist, and I assist regularly to an SSPX chapel.

Anonymous said...


All these opinions of Fatima - "Not Fatima Fans", for example...

Sounds almost like Protestants reactions to the same.

(I'm ready for my bashing, but I'll continue to follow Our Lady)

Anonymous said...

Today is the 1st day in the Novena to Bl. Lucia dos Santos in anticipation of the anniversary of her passing (Feb 13th):
Novena to Blessed Sister Lucia dos Santos

Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I adore you profoundly and I thank you for the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Fatima that revealed to the world the riches of her Immaculate Heart.

By the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and through the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I implore You, if it should be for Your greater glory and the good of our souls, to glorify Sr. Lucia, one of the Shepherds of Fatima, by granting us the grace which we implore through her intercession. Amen

Pater, Ave, Gloria.

Sincerely, Neophyte

Anonymous said...

I wish to defend myself against accusations that my initial response to Anon 02-02-2011 15:47 who essentially mocked Our Lady of Fatima was "immoderate", "fanatic" and even "Protestant"(!!! I've never seen a Protestant defending the name of Our Lady of Fatima).

Our Lady's words specifically were (translated): "In Portugal, the Dogma of the Faith will always be *preserved*, etc". "Preserved" is a term one would use of something that stands the great risk of contanimation. As such the Anon in question was entirely out of line to mock Our Lady's message. The fact that Portugal has a thriving if small traditional community being preserved in a national cesspool of apostasy in fact does fit the prophecy quite well.

To those who continue to use the term "private revelation" to dismiss or mock the message of Our Lady of Fatima, for your own sakes, if you do consider yourselves pious, contemplate the following:

1. 2 of the seers are canonized saints, and 1 is beatified. 3 seers for these apparitions - alot less "private" than other Marian apparitions (Lourdes, Guadaloupe, Akita among so many others) that are approved as worthy of belief.
2. The Miracle of the Sun on Oct 17 1917 was witnessed by 70,000 people and recorded by the secular (and most anti-clerical) Portuguese press of the time. Not very private that revelation!
3. The Fatima apparition was approved by the local ordinary, and has been heralded by every Pope since that time.
4. The 1 st Fatima apparition came just 9 days after Pope Benedict XV prayed publicly for an end to the 1st world war.
5. The Fatima prayer is a recognized part of the Most Holy Rosary and uttered with each decade within the PSalter.
6. Many officially-recognized miracles are attributed to Our Lady of Fatima.
7. Pope Pius XII twice consecrated Russia with a view to obeying OUr Lady of Fatima.
8. Pope Paul VI declared that Our Lady of Fatima was a fulfillment of the "Lady CLothed with the Sun" described in Apocalypse 12:1 and heralded the end times.
9. Pope John Paul II declared that Our Lady of Fatima had saved him from his assassin on May 13, 1981 and consecrated the world twice in Our Lady's honor in thanks for Her saving him.
10. Our Lady predicted the end of WW1, the start of WW2 and the signs accompanying the start of that war, and the fact that Russia would be the instrument used by God to punish the nations - this BEFORE the Bolshevik revolution took place.
11. The last apparition at Fatima occurred 12 days before the Bolshevik Revolution began in Russia and shook the entire world order highlighting the import of the need for Russia's conversion.
12. Pope Benedict XVI has stated that the predictions of Fatima do not just concern the past but also the present and the future.

You may not recall that it was a standard part of every pious Catholic's duty to pray for the conversion of Russia until the postconciliar times.

Some "private" revelation! How much more public do you expect Our Lady and Holy Mother Church to make this revelation?

I can't imagine how anyone truly pious can "mock" such a revelation.

And particularly someone who assists at a chapel of the SSPX, whose very own leaders led the world in a 12 million Rosary Crusade to convince the Holy Father to order the collegial consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as the means to achieve world peace.

If I can end off on a conciliatory and fraternal note to these souls: Awake from your slumber and turn your hearts towards Her Immaculate Heart.

Sincerely, Neophyte

Anonymous said...

Dear Neophyte,

So Fatima is more than private revelation and demands faith?

If this is your meaning, I don't know if your view is Protestant but it surely isn't Catholic.

Anonymous said...

Dear Neophyte,
Although I deeply respect and value your great devotion and love to Our Lady of Fatima, I cannot see a dogma where there isn't.
Someone can be a perfect Catholic and Traditionalist without necessarily following the revelations of Fatima.
And please, I am NOT mocking neither Fatima or much less Our Lady.
But I fail to understand why I must give consent to the Fatima revelations when the Church does not impose it as a must, although has great respect for them.

Knight of Malta said...

Frankly, if the European Union had their druthers, they would put their velvet-covered steel glove against any EU country who still outlaws abortion (e.g. Ireland, Malta).

Those in Brussels are tight-pantied bureaucrats.

BobTrad said...

If consecrating Russia to IHM means we can start to put an end to these incediniary arguments, then let's do it already!

Anonymous said...

All the beauty of Fatima has been mostly ruined by those who made it a sacred and unquestionable dogma of Catholic Faith.
I remember a lay person in my parish citing Fatima revelations along with dogmas and Councils definitions.
That is not right to say the least.

Anonymous said...

"I remember a lay person in my parish citing Fatima revelations along with dogmas and Councils definitions."

Yes, this is true even with the dearly beloved and esteemed SSPX. For instance, it was quite unfortunate that the Rosary Crusade was tied to the issue of the Consecration of Russia.

Mike said...

Anonymous 2/2/11 15:47:

We do not know what the rest of the phrase "In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc."

We don't know what follows the "etc." As John Vennari and others have pointed out, it could say "In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved PROVIDED THAT" certain things occur.

It is therefore rash of you to make derogatory statements about Fatima.