Last year, around this time, there was a 'crisis' owing to S.S.P.X ordinations at Zaitzkofen; there were also ordinations scheduled for Winona and one other place, I think. I have not heard of any such conflict this year. Is the S.S.P.X proceeding with ordinations to the priesthood this year?
Could someone list how many Society seminarists are being ordained priest and when? Try finding this on Society sites. It is not easy. It is as if they want to hide it. After much rooting around, I found that TOMORROW, 17 June, 2011, their Seminary at Winona will ordain five priests: two Americans (one of whom is for the O.S.B.), 1 French-Canadian, 1 Frenchman and 1 Indian from Palayamkottai, where the Society has an important apostolate.
On Wednesday, 29 June, there will be ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood at Ecône but I have so far not found the numbers or names.
After considerable trouble, I found four names for priestly ordination at Zaitzkoken: one Pole, I Dutchman, 1 Switzer and 1 Austrian. Date: 2 July, 2011.
I have completely failed to ascertain how many, if any, will be ordained in Australia or in Argentina.
So I'm wondering if Rome will once again 'temporarily regularise' the S.S.P.X in secret; or will she make it permanent and public this time? But she has not done so yet and those in America occur--tomorrow.
Could someone find that old quotation of Bishop Fellay? He said that Rome temporarily regularised the Society last June to enable licit ordinations. But I do not believe that he told us that this status was withdrawn after they were over, and the Society ordained priests in December.
In the case of ordinations in Germany (coming 2nd July to a priory near you), there would be a problem UNLESS?
I have remarked on this before on Rorate Caeli, but it bears repeating. Whilst I attend an SSPX chapel out of necessity (in order to attend a TLM) and sympathise strongly with them, some seem to have an overly benign view of the SSPX. Perhaps they are just fortunate in their experience of this group. My own experience (which I admit is just mine...yet I would be surprised if it does not reflect a general trend) is that any kind of reconciliation is a long way off, and would likely exclude huge sections of the SSPX. Where I am, the SSPX priests have told us we must rather do without Sunday Mass, than attend TLM's offered by courageous local priests exercising their right under Summorum Pontificum. Doubt regarding the validity of the Masses is encouraged or at least winked at; non-SSPX priests labelled modernists and liberals fron the pulpit. Our visiting priest has arranged conference after conference at our chapel to persuade parishioners to cease and desist attending non-SSPX TLM's and rather to attend chapel rosary instead. He has succeeded with several people, in addition to those who have always refused to attend any non-SSPX Mass. Bottom line? Any paper regularisation will be just that until attitudes change. As an "insider" (at least as one who sees the SSPX at grassroots level), any kind of recognition or concession from the Holy See only strengthens their conviction that they have been right all along and everyone else - yes, including TLM orders and communities - are wrong, and bolsters their schismatic mentality. Just my thoughts....
Anon, please think about this - SSPX is not the problem, modernists in the Novus Ordo side are. Whatever faults you may find with SSPX, they are not driving the church over the cliff. The other guys are. Focus your aim there.
Trad priests have always been of the view that they are right and everybody else is wrong. FSSP thinks that about SSPX, as do the "independent" priests. Take it with a grain of salt. There are problems when the sheep get scattered, but don't criticize the sheep, go for those who are responsible for scattering the sheep.
Really? Well, I can see why you do not identify yourself.
I have no doubt that any sort of regularisation will have little effect in the shorter term. What is important is the long-term effect, however. It would mean real liberty for the T.L.M. Why? It is because the real enemy of our freedom has been the local bishops. That, sir, is why you yourself attend a Society Mass. Perhaps you have a letter from the P.C.E.D.? But, letter or not, only a public admission published in the A.A.S. can have any legal standing on this matter. We still don't have even that.
If the Pope is not willing to free the S.S.P.X from his laws and his bishops, he might consider creating a personal ordinaraite for the F.S.S.P. and others and just leave the S.S.P.X out. One way or the other, only a JURISDICTION free of the bishops will do. As long as the bishops have power over Latin Mass celebrants, they will maintain their power to persecute tradition.
U.E. frees the T.L.M. from the malice of the bishops in pure theory. The P.C.E.D. can now overrule the local bishop in this matter. Well, that does not stop the local bishop from retaliating against priests who cross him. A bishop keeps his power to send Fr. Tradition to that hospice chaplaincy or that prison chaplaincy. Yes, Fr. Tradition, you may say your Latin Mass. But you'll have to say it at the prison chapel for the hardened criminals! Ha! Got ya! And, when that mission is over, have I got a hospice chaplaincy for you! Your new charges won't even be able to understand your Mass if you swtich to English because they're all comatose! Yipee! How I love persecuting traditionalists! Karl Marx, I love you!
That is where we are at present. Notice that, so far, in France, there has been no movement on U.E. The same old bishops at Reims, Soissons, Verdun, Cambrai, St-Denis, La Rochelle, &c. are holding out. They got the pow-er!
I know the SSPX is not the cause of the problem. The modernists and anti-Tradition bishops are. I believe I fulfil my Sunday obligation at an SSPX chapel and commit no sin in doing so.
I also pray for a regularisation and reconciliation as this is so important for the Church.
However, in my own experience sectarian attitudes do run deep - even if one can in some way understand where this comes from.
The fact is that here, in South Africa, SSPX priests (including the Superior) have told us rather to miss Sunday Mass and in our city to attend our chapel to say the rosary, than attend a local TLM offered by a courageous priest exercising his rights in terms of SP and UE. I pray the day is hastened when some form of canonical structure and freedom is granted the SSPX as this will be an unparalleled boon for Tradition and will go some way in alleviating the cultishness, if only because a good portion of SSPXers will likely depart. PTKP, I don't have your level of insight but I have a real problem with the mentality that will say "SSPX or nothing". South African Traditionalist
Thank you for your insight from down under. Keep the Faith! We struggle here in the USA and are probably in better shape than South Africa. Traditionalists may be few, but hold the precious future and past of the Church.
12 comments:
Last year, around this time, there was a 'crisis' owing to S.S.P.X ordinations at Zaitzkofen; there were also ordinations scheduled for Winona and one other place, I think. I have not heard of any such conflict this year. Is the S.S.P.X proceeding with ordinations to the priesthood this year?
P.K.T.P.
Yes.
Thanks for this; I've been waiting!
Delphina
Could someone list how many Society seminarists are being ordained priest and when? Try finding this on Society sites. It is not easy. It is as if they want to hide it. After much rooting around, I found that TOMORROW, 17 June, 2011, their Seminary at Winona will ordain five priests: two Americans (one of whom is for the O.S.B.), 1 French-Canadian, 1 Frenchman and 1 Indian from Palayamkottai, where the Society has an important apostolate.
On Wednesday, 29 June, there will be ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood at Ecône but I have so far not found the numbers or names.
After considerable trouble, I found four names for priestly ordination at Zaitzkoken: one Pole, I Dutchman, 1 Switzer and 1 Austrian. Date: 2 July, 2011.
I have completely failed to ascertain how many, if any, will be ordained in Australia or in Argentina.
So I'm wondering if Rome will once again 'temporarily regularise' the S.S.P.X in secret; or will she make it permanent and public this time? But she has not done so yet and those in America occur--tomorrow.
P.K.T.P.
Could someone find that old quotation of Bishop Fellay? He said that Rome temporarily regularised the Society last June to enable licit ordinations. But I do not believe that he told us that this status was withdrawn after they were over, and the Society ordained priests in December.
In the case of ordinations in Germany (coming 2nd July to a priory near you), there would be a problem UNLESS?
P.K.T.P.
I have remarked on this before on Rorate Caeli, but it bears repeating. Whilst I attend an SSPX chapel out of necessity (in order to attend a TLM) and sympathise strongly with them, some seem to have an overly benign view of the SSPX. Perhaps they are just fortunate in their experience of this group.
My own experience (which I admit is just mine...yet I would be surprised if it does not reflect a general trend) is that any kind of reconciliation is a long way off, and would likely exclude huge sections of the SSPX.
Where I am, the SSPX priests have told us we must rather do without Sunday Mass, than attend TLM's offered by courageous local priests exercising their right under Summorum Pontificum. Doubt regarding the validity of the Masses is encouraged or at least winked at; non-SSPX priests labelled modernists and liberals fron the pulpit. Our visiting priest has arranged conference after conference at our chapel to persuade parishioners to cease and desist attending non-SSPX TLM's and rather to attend chapel rosary instead. He has succeeded with several people, in addition to those who have always refused to attend any non-SSPX Mass.
Bottom line? Any paper regularisation will be just that until attitudes change. As an "insider" (at least as one who sees the SSPX at grassroots level), any kind of recognition or concession from the Holy See only strengthens their conviction that they have been right all along and everyone else - yes, including TLM orders and communities - are wrong, and bolsters their schismatic mentality.
Just my thoughts....
Anon, please think about this - SSPX is not the problem, modernists in the Novus Ordo side are. Whatever faults you may find with SSPX, they are not driving the church over the cliff. The other guys are. Focus your aim there.
Trad priests have always been of the view that they are right and everybody else is wrong. FSSP thinks that about SSPX, as do the "independent" priests. Take it with a grain of salt. There are problems when the sheep get scattered, but don't criticize the sheep, go for those who are responsible for scattering the sheep.
Anon. 17.39:
Really? Well, I can see why you do not identify yourself.
I have no doubt that any sort of regularisation will have little effect in the shorter term. What is important is the long-term effect, however. It would mean real liberty for the T.L.M. Why? It is because the real enemy of our freedom has been the local bishops. That, sir, is why you yourself attend a Society Mass. Perhaps you have a letter from the P.C.E.D.? But, letter or not, only a public admission published in the A.A.S. can have any legal standing on this matter. We still don't have even that.
If the Pope is not willing to free the S.S.P.X from his laws and his bishops, he might consider creating a personal ordinaraite for the F.S.S.P. and others and just leave the S.S.P.X out. One way or the other, only a JURISDICTION free of the bishops will do. As long as the bishops have power over Latin Mass celebrants, they will maintain their power to persecute tradition.
U.E. frees the T.L.M. from the malice of the bishops in pure theory. The P.C.E.D. can now overrule the local bishop in this matter. Well, that does not stop the local bishop from retaliating against priests who cross him. A bishop keeps his power to send Fr. Tradition to that hospice chaplaincy or that prison chaplaincy. Yes, Fr. Tradition, you may say your Latin Mass. But you'll have to say it at the prison chapel for the hardened criminals! Ha! Got ya! And, when that mission is over, have I got a hospice chaplaincy for you! Your new charges won't even be able to understand your Mass if you swtich to English because they're all comatose! Yipee! How I love persecuting traditionalists! Karl Marx, I love you!
That is where we are at present. Notice that, so far, in France, there has been no movement on U.E. The same old bishops at Reims, Soissons, Verdun, Cambrai, St-Denis, La Rochelle, &c. are holding out. They got the pow-er!
P.K.T.P.
Joe B and PKTP,
I know the SSPX is not the cause of the problem. The modernists and anti-Tradition bishops are. I believe I fulfil my Sunday obligation at an SSPX chapel and commit no sin in doing so.
I also pray for a regularisation and reconciliation as this is so important for the Church.
However, in my own experience sectarian attitudes do run deep - even if one can in some way understand where this comes from.
The fact is that here, in South Africa, SSPX priests (including the Superior) have told us rather to miss Sunday Mass and in our city to attend our chapel to say the rosary, than attend a local TLM offered by a courageous priest exercising his rights in terms of SP and UE.
I pray the day is hastened when some form of canonical structure and freedom is granted the SSPX as this will be an unparalleled boon for Tradition and will go some way in alleviating the cultishness, if only because a good portion of SSPXers will likely depart.
PTKP, I don't have your level of insight but I have a real problem with the mentality that will say "SSPX or nothing".
South African Traditionalist
South African Traditionalist:
Thank you for your insight from down under. Keep the Faith! We struggle here in the USA and are probably in better shape than South Africa. Traditionalists may be few, but hold the precious future and past of the Church.
In Ecône, on 29 June, there will be 12 priests ordained for the SSPX and 1 for the Dominicans.
No numbers yet for the southern hemisphere (La Reja, Argentina), as the ordinations there are, as always, scheduled for December...
SSPX ordinations - all numbers, names & nationalities can be found here:
DICI
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