Rorate Caeli

This is the Tridentine Mass:
It's morning again

Just four years after the entry into force of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, the traditional Mass is finally going to be celebrated regularly by a diocesan priest in the city of... Trent, the main seat of the great Council: every Sunday at 6:30 PM (yes, that is 1830..., local time, in the Church of Santa Maria del Suffragio, in the city center), by order of the local Archbishop. [tip: Messa in latino]


This is just the latest of hundreds of new traditional Latin Masses celebrated weekly
after Summorum Pontificum: "It's morning again in the Vatican, and, under the leadership of Pope Ratzinger, our Church is prouder and stronger and better. Why would we ever want to return to where we were less than four short years ago?"...

17 comments:

  1. Anonymous10:41 AM

    I don;t really understand the cause for celebrating. Celebrating the return of the True Catholic Mass to the great city of Trent which hosted the magnificent Council of the same name, yes. That is cause to celebrate.

    But the hour given for the celebration is rather ridiculous. I would assume that not many people would want to go to Mass at 6:30 at night....or 6:30 am either.

    Perhaps I am to cynical,but it seems to me that this bishop is granting the permission, but at a time which is inconvenient for many. Perhaps that is why it was done....in the hopes no one would show up.
    This trick was done in a local parish near me. The Tridentine Latin Mass is celebrated...but at 7:30 am on Sunday, when most people are still sleeping. The turnout is always small.

    The 6:30 pm time for the Mass in Trent is at the dinner hour. I am sure it was planned that way, in the hopes no one would come.

    Finally, I have to observe that why is the bishop granting anything at all. Doesn't the original Summorum Pontificum, and now the updated regulations of earlier this Summer allow for any priest, in any parish, to celebrated the Tridentine Latin Mass whenever he wants, and for as many as come to the Mass.
    Why are these bishops still getting involved? According to what I;ve read, it's not their place to allow or disallow the Tridentine Latin Mass in their dioceses at all anymore.

    These bishops think it's business as usuall. And the Catholic priests and faithful who want the Tridentine Latin Mass are either too disorganized, or too weak to stand up to them.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous10:59 AM

    Praise be to God!
    We must keep on praying, and trusting Our Lord Jesus Christ is control.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Brick by brick, one might say, or even pebble by pebble. Four years on and, appropriately enough, Quattuor abhinc annos is being implemented.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous1:06 PM

    Catholics who adhere to tradition continue to be treated as American pre-civil rights South Blacks by the post-Vatican II hierarchy. Disgusting!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous2:10 PM

    Before anyone holds forth with more pompous, condescending comments....

    READ the statement which clearly says that the mass is being instituted "on the order of the Archbishop" not "with the permission of the Archbishop".

    And for your information, a lot of people go to mass at or about that hour.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Re:


    "This is just the latest of hundreds of new traditional Latin Masses celebrated weekly
    after Summorum Pontificum"

    Wonderful! - but it provokes the question as to what is meant exactly by "hundreds of new traditional Latin Masses"

    P.T.K.P. was giving us very very very valuable updates about the progress - or not - of TLM in different parts of the world

    Perhaps I have missed one or two. I must search.

    But last I recall P.T. K. P. was reporting a tendency for new TLM's to flatten out ... not much net growth at all.

    I would greatly value and appreciate more updates about the growth - or not - of TLM from P.T.K.P. or anyone else qualified at this profoundly helpful and inspiring blog ...

    ReplyDelete
  7. Henry3:16 PM

    "a tendency for new TLM's to flatten out ... not much net growth at all."

    Is this not what would be expected in any market? Namely, rapid expansion of offerings until demand is largely satisfied, and a leveling off of growth thereafter.

    And is not the most telling index of the Church's present situation the fact that there is so little demand for the TLM, rather than the paucity of offerings of it?

    Does any one doubt that offerings of the TLM would increase in response to mass demand for it on the part of ordinary Catholics?

    In short, perhaps the problem is not to get more priests to offer the TLM, but to get more people to demand it.

    ReplyDelete
  8. The first commenter ought not to compare 0730 to 1830 rashly. That's a great time for Mass--ask any person that regularly attends a Saturday vigil. Much better than early morning or sometime in the afternoon. Also, people in Italy eat supper much later than elsewhere. At our former parish, we attended a Latin Novus Ordo at 6 p.m. that was very well attended (except Super Bowl Sunday, ugh) not by people who liked the higher liturgy, but by people who simply preferred to go to Mass at that later hour.

    A "Deo Gratias" is in order.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Guy Fawkes3:37 PM

    "This is just the latest of hundreds of new traditional Latin Masses celebrated weekly
    after Summorum Pontificum"


    Not in Italy for sure.

    Bishop's resistance and laymen's indifference are still in full force in the "Bel Paese".

    The only Bishops openly and wholeheartly obeying to His Holiness here are the bishop of Albenga, Mario Oliveri, and the Bishop of Rome, who graciously allowed the constitution of the only personal parish existing as of today in Italy (despite various requests, all rejected).

    Other pastors (His Eminence Scola, His Excellences Crepaldi of Trieste and Giusti of Livorno) let some traditional institutes (ICRSP, FSSP) having missions in their dioces.

    There are also some bishops (i.e. Badini Confalonieri in Susa, or the Bishop of Novara) who tolerate the presence of traditional-minded clergy in their ranks, as long as they stay more or less hidden in the woods.

    Also, the average catholic's state of faith is so bad in Italy, that the interest in TLM is maybe not the top priority. Liturgy is a circus in most parishes of some dioceses, but often parishioners lacks the very basic of their faith.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Guy Fawkes3:54 PM

    Quick numbers for Italy.

    Total dioceses: 226

    Total TLM: 150 (approx)

    Total personal parishes: 1

    Total dioceses offering at least 1 TLM (including Rome): 73

    ReplyDelete
  11. Gratias4:06 PM

    It is morning in the Church. The Traditional Latin Mass is being restored, slowly but now with renewed enthusiasm. Just look at the magnificent events announced at our dear Rorate Caeli. All require dedicated Priests, choirs and faithful. Each new person that tastes the Pane Lingua is transformed. Here in California the TLM is growing steadily in my estimation.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Shouldn't we thank God for every TLM we can get?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous8:09 PM

    Don't see the numbers of NO "Masses" falling off...

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous3:37 AM

    Needed, TRENT II, nuff said.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous7:48 AM

    To answer one poster's question on the statistics, it is too early after the summer to tell what fruits, if any, Universæ Ecclesiæ will bring. I have not looked closely at the Italian numbers lately but I believe that there is an every-Sunday Mass now at Paese and another at Pisa and another at Pistoia which I had not noticed before. But I am only guessing, not lookng at my lists.

    So far, in the U.S.A., we have suffered a net loss in the number of dioceses offering the T.L.M. every Sunday. We have lost the Dioceses of Sioux City, Biloxi, Burlington and Victoria-in-Texas. the last of these will likely be restored soon (and is already restored two Sundays per month), and Biloxi will be restored on a trial basis for Advent. Nevetheless, we are actually LOSING dioceses (net loss) since U.E. Meanwhile, the Bishop of Great Falls - Billings has forbidden Latin Masses sans his permission and he did this while mentioning that he had decided to set S.P. and U.E. aside. That's right: this Bishop in Montana has vetoed the Pope! Who needs a Pope of Rome when you can have your very own pope in Montana.

    In France, there is no real progress. The Bishop of St-Denis has FINALLY admitted our Mass but only every Saturday morning--not a Mass of Sunday obligation. But he is a newly-appointed man and there is hope there. But nothing yet for Reims, Cambrai, Soissons, Verdun, &c.--the north to north-east, a spiritual desert.

    In Belgium, the celebrant for Antwerp died and has not been replaced.

    One important gain in Canada: finally, an every-Sunday Mass in the important Archdiocese of Winnipeg. It was cancelled in 1988 and its supporters have been struggling to restore it for 23 years!

    The Bishop of Novara, in Italy, reaches 76. Make Renato Corti go away, Holy Father. I send him a powered wheelchair as a retirement gift, but I admit that there might be a bomb under the seat.

    The nasty Bishop of Aberdeen has been replaced in Scotland. Let him eat haggis! Will the Orphans of the Holy Redeemer finally be redeemed? Bishop Rawsthorne of Hallam, in England, the only hold-out against our Mass there, is nearing 75. Someone, please push him down the cathedral steps!

    Our Mass has arrrived at Riga, Latvia, but only on Fridays.

    Successes in Cuba and Croatia. Portugal is still a liturgical black hole.

    Let's review at Christmas. This will need a bit of time.

    P.K.T.P.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous7:50 AM

    Guy:

    Is that 73 on the every-Su. basis? Parma has a T.L.M. but not every Sunday, for instance.

    P.K.T.P.

    ReplyDelete
  17. <"In short, perhaps the problem is not to get more priests to offer the TLM, but to get more people to demand it.">

    I need and will attend only the Traditional Mass, the same for my wife and eight children. . . the growth of our family will be exponential- as will the growth of all Traditional Catholic communities. . . trust me, we need all the Traditional priest we can get.

    Growth of the priesthood is booming amongst the SSPX and the Fraternity of Saint Peter. As the TLM is exposed/offered more and more to catholics. . . they will come.

    The new mass is dying; I stop in now and then when I travel, and what I see in the new church is sad. Empty seats. Tradition is growing; and the post Vatican church is rapidly decreasing.

    ReplyDelete

Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.

_______
NOTES

(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!