Rorate Caeli

For the record: prior to the Wednesday meeting of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

In a very interesting news analysis posted yesterday, our friend Enrico of Messa in Latino provides his opinion on the current status of the Rome-Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) dossier - it is quite interesting, though it does not provide any new information, except for this, which we post here solely for the record of events:


A rumor (take it as such, but I assure you that it is credible) that has been revealed was that the latest response of Bp. Fellay, by which he accepts the famous [Doctrinal] Preamble, but with some significant modifications, before being officially sent to [the Pontifical Commission] Ecclesia Dei and to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was made known, by way of Mons. Georg [Gänswein, personal secretary of Pope Benedict XVI], directly to the Pope, who did not raise any objections. A way to ensure that some overzealous Roman servant, perhaps due to an excessive affection for the text of the Preamble originally prepared by his Dicastery, will not raise any problems... So we wait confidently for Wednesday, when the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is called to pronounce on the response of the SSPX.

26 comments:

  1. Oremus--and hard!

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  2. God bless Msgr. Gänswein. Well done.

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  3. I will be fasting.


    Now.... why would the pope do that? Furthermore... why would the pope make known that he already read it?

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  4. I hope Schonborn can disregard his Medjugorje praxis, and show some charity towards tradition...

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  5. John McFarland1:23 PM

    Dear New Catholic,

    Thanks to you and Enrico for tying up the loose ends.

    Bishop Fellay's recent remarks clearly implied a direct line of communication between the SSPX and the Holy Father.

    Unsurprisingly, the messenger was the Pope's secretary.

    The Preamble is settled; if the CDF were to cancel its meeting and burn the dossier, it would make no difference.

    So: back to the Rosary, the Veni Creator Spiritus and the Memorare.

    Perhaps we should also offer up the mortification of our speculative urges between now and the Holy Father's decision.

    For some of us, it could have great merit -- if we could bring it off.

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  6. Peter1:25 PM

    beng sks :
    Why would the Pope make known that he had already read it ?

    Wel, if the rumour is true, he would do this in order to let the Congregation know what response he wants from them.

    This Pope is an old Vatican hand, and he knows how the Vatican works, and how to impose his will on the Curia in his own subtle way.

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  7. With all due respect the question really is: Will the Lion lay down with the Lamb? Negotiations are useless unless good will is present on both sides.

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  8. Let's all just all do our part: prayer, penance, fasting and alms-giving, offering them up for this great intentiion. Oh, and pray for an ORDINARIATE for the SSPX, not a stupid prelature. This is KEY now to everything, IMO. An ordinariate is jurisdiction, not a prelature. The Society would be fighting this whole thing all over again if a prelature was dumped on them.

    Tonight is Rome's tomorrow morning, so let's get a move on and really double up.

    There's really nothing to talk about anymore. It's all come to a head and this is it.

    Te rogamus audinos.

    Matt

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  9. Rogation Day beggar3:08 PM

    "May the most high, most just, most adorable Will of God be in all things done, praised and magnified forever and ever. Amen"

    "Veni Sancte Spiritus" through the intercession of Our Blessed Mother, St. Joseph "Patron of the Universal Church" and St. Michael, the Archangel "Chief and Commander of the Heavenly Host"!

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  10. Jack O'Malley3:13 PM

    Oremus, ieiunemus, sileamus. Sicut rogavit Fellay Episcopus: mit Schweigen und Gebet ...

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  11. Anonymous3:14 PM

    Since yesterday, today, and tomorrow (Wednesday) are the Rogation Days (Lesser Litanies), why not make time to recite the Litany of the Saints? Both the Latin and its English translation can be found here:
    http://www.breviary.net/misc/litanysaints.htm

    --Fr. Capreolus

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  12. Ted Maysfield3:16 PM

    I agree with Matt: an Ordinate, not a Prelature.

    Jurisdiction secured vs. navigating the swamp of local diocesan obstruction most everywhere.

    (By the way, Rorate Caeli is becoming the most interesting and informative traditional Catholic news source in the English-speaking world).

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  13. John McFarland said:

    "...the SSPX and the Holy Father"

    THE
    LOAF
    OF
    BREAD

    Every work of God...
    With it something brings
    On humid hot-days clouds
    Let go their rain-drop pings.

    'Fore lady lightening strikes
    She warns us with her thunders
    To shelter kith and kin
    As lightening sometimes blunders.

    And crusty creeks bring rocks
    And all the rocks bring slime
    Where little boys explore
    To slip on rocks they climb.

    And under babies' arms
    New lives bring loaves of bread
    Holy Mother brings Our Lord
    Blood-sacrificed un-red…

    To feed the soul which brings our flesh
    To earth then hopefully Heaven -
    The Priest, the Rock, the Church, the flock -
    The sanctus sacrificium et seven.

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  14. Francis4:47 PM

    Many of us have been praying for this reunion for decades. A reunion that doesn't compromise the traditional and orthodox teachings of Holy Mother Church. I hope and pray this will be the case in the next few days. For me this is very surreal, the waiting could be over in the next few days God willing.
    @Long skirts I truly enjoy reading your poetry.

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  15. beng said:

    Now.... why would the pope do that? Furthermore... why would the pope make known that he already read it?

    15 May, 2012 13:00


    Because he knows how many communications by the SSPX leadership in the past three decades were "interpreted" for the pope's ears. Apparently, he feels he can trust no one except the people whose positions it is entirely his own prerogative to fill.

    Thank God we have a pope who actually understands how depraved human nature can become instead of a pope whose faith in human nature was almost without bounds.

    "Pray that I do not flee because of the wolves," he said.

    --Zak

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  16. Kathleen5:56 PM

    QUOTE: Fr. Capreolus,

    Since yesterday, today, and tomorrow (Wednesday) are the Rogation Days (Lesser Litanies), why not make time to recite the Litany of the Saints? Both the Latin and its English translation can be found here:
    http://www.breviary.net/misc/litanysaints.htm


    Thank you for the suggestion and reminder Father, I intend to put to good use.

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  17. P.K.T.P.6:26 PM

    My following post(s) is off-topic but informational, so I hope the moderators will allow it.

    Some may wish to know what sort of difference 'recognised' Society Masses would in terms of numbers of dioceses having at least one every-Sunday Traditional Latin Mass. Since 2002, the P.C.E.D. has recognised that these Masses fulfil the Sunday obligation, but this recognition only has legal standing for addressees of letters to that effect from the same P.C.E.D. With full regularisation (or even recognition), that will change.

    France is clearly the most important country on earth for the traditionalist movement, so I start there and then try to list countries very roughly in terms of importance for the movement.

    The following dioceses will gain the status of having at least one every-Su. T.L.M. should the S.S.P.X be reconciled:

    France: Soissons, Reims, Langres, St-Denis, St-Claude, Angoulême, La Rochelle, Ajaccio (8).

    U.S.A.: Las Vegas, Nashville (by combination with already-approved Masses), Jefferson City, Crookston, New Ulm (5).

    Italy: Albano, Velletri-Segni, Lucca, Bolzano-Bressanone [Bozen-Brixen] (I had thought that B.-B. did have approved Masses every Sunday but failed to find them in a recent search). (4)

    Brazil: Santa Maria, Nova Friburgo. (2)

    Argentina: Buenos Aires, Mercedes-Luján, Bahía-Blanca, Gregorio de la Ferrere, Jujuy, Mendoza, Merlo-Moreno, San Miguel (8). Note: Argentina is a powerhouse for the S.S.P.X. Greetings, Cardinal Bergoglio!

    Mexico: Ciudad Juarez, Mexico City, Puebla, Gomez Palacio, Orizaba, Dos Rios (5).

    Poland: Tarnow, Przemysl, Szezecin-Kamien (3).

    India: Goa, Bombay (there is no other name for this city), Madras (there is no other name for it), Palayam Kottai, Tuticorin, (there may be about three more & I used to have a complete list).

    Portugal: Lisbon.

    Belgium: Ghent.

    Switzerland: Sion, Sankt Gallen.

    Germany: Essen.

    Netherlands: Rotterdam, s'Hertogenbosch.

    Ireland: Down & Connor (Belfast).

    Lithuania: Kaunas, Siauliai (good grief! How does one pronounce that?).

    Czechland: Brno.

    Slovenia: Ljubljana.

    Colombia: Bucaramanga.

    Philippines: Iloilo (but I thought we had an approved one there. Comments?)

    Guatemala: G. City.

    Dominican Rep.: Santo Domingo.

    Canada: Trois Rivières, Kamloops.

    N.Z.: Hamilton.

    Australia: Lismore, Maitland-Newcastle, Toowoomba, Ballarat (4).

    South Africa: Durban.

    Zimbabwe: Harare.

    Kenya: Nairoibi.

    Singapore

    Japan: Tokyo.

    That's just a general overview & will not be entirely accurate.

    P.K.T.P.

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  18. P.K.T.P.7:39 PM

    A few comments are in order regarding my recently posted list, for which I thank the moderators.

    First, in the case of France, the S.S.P.X is very important but so are approved Masses. There are about an equal number in each group. There are also about an equal number of dioceses covered with every-Su. Masses, most of which are overlapping. 79 French dioceses currently have at least one every-Su. T.L.M. That number would rise to 87 (out of 93 sees in toto). This would mean that 94% of French sees would have at least one such Mass every Sunday. Most of the hold-outs would be underpopulated dioceses, such as Mende and Viviers, although I cannot for the life of me understand why there is no S.S.P.X Mass in the populous Archdiocese of Cambrai.

    In the case of the U.S.A., approved Masses outnumber Society Masses by a ratio of about 4:1, and, terms of dioceses, the ratio is 3:1. The five added dioceses are welcome and are in some important dioceses. They would bring the U.S. total to about 154 of 176 Latin sees (88%). Still left out in the cold, however, would be the Dioceses of Saginaw, Shreveport, Greensburg, Sioux City, Laredo, and the Archdiocese of Mobile.

    N.Z. would rise to 100% coverage.

    The following countries would have most or all dioceses having the T.L.M. every Sunday: New Zealand, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, even the Netherlands, England, Germany, France, the U.S.A.

    S.S.P.X Masses will make an important difference in Argentina. Argentina is a powerhouse for the S.S.P.X, whereas there are very few approved Masses (Salta, Cordoba, San Isidro, Mar del Plata, La Plata, Sta. Fe I think, and nothing for Buenos Aires). The Society would add eight to those six to make fourteen.

    But it is notable that the S.S.P.X hardly exists north of Argentina until one reaches Mexico. It cannot even manage an every-Su. Mass in Lima, with eight million Catholics, or even one in all of Peru. To me, this is evidence of real failure of the S.S.P.X in Latin America. They also have nothing at all in Venezuela or Eculador, Bolivia or Paraguay, and very little in Colombia or Brazil.

    The S.S.P.X offers Mass every Sunday in about six or eight dioceses in India, whereas there are zero approved Masses there. India would be important here. We might see a new breakthrough for Central Asia.

    In most of Europe, the Society would greatly add access in dioceses already served every-Sunday.

    My own country of Canada? Hopeless. Australia is even worse, although the S.S.P.X would bring three new dioceses into the fold (only two for Canada). The problem in Canada is the Bolshevik Bishops of Quebec, whom Cardinal Ouellet is gradually having removed. I'd depose the lot of them, starting with Lussier of Joliette and then moving on to Rivest.

    The main effect of a reconciliation on the ground would not be an addition of Masses but the addition of real freedom for us, *provided* that the S.S.P.X gets the right structure and does not need any approval from the Marxist local bishops. That's why it's important, once the reconciliation is effected, to 'just say no' to a personal prelature. Personal prelatures are like narcotics: dangerous to one's health. A personal diocese or ordinariate, on the other hand, is like a successful discharge from the hospital, and it real does feel as if we've been infected with the disease of Modernism these last four decades.

    P.K.T.P.

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  19. Running off topic: Should the Society be "recognized" would not all of its Masses be counted in each of the dioceses in which it is present? WOW!

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  20. Peter Moscatelli8:14 PM

    @ PKTP

    For your Italian statistics, please have a look at the list provided at this site
    http://www.unavox.it/messa.htm
    which is, methinks, the most complete you could find in our country. Regards, PM

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  21. GQ Rep10:17 PM

    Thank God for Msgr. Gaswein, and for the people who made it available to him to give directly to the Pope. That's one way to circumvent the obstructionists in the Secretariat of State (Bertone et al), or others in the CDF who would like to see the SSPX back in the Church under the tightest of restrictions. ALSO they would of course insist that the SSPX swear undying loyalty to Vatican II.....something that I don;t think will happen. Not anymore.

    I hope that the SSPX is brought back into the Church with the widest freedom...and not a mention of allegiance to Vatican II required.

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  22. GQ Rep10:24 PM

    "beng said...
    I will be fasting.


    Now.... why would the pope do that? Furthermore... why would the pope make known that he already read it?
    "

    He would do that so that the nutjobs in the CDF or the Secretariate of State can't try to derail the return of the SSPX, stall it, or alter the documents in their favor or in favor of loyalty to Vatican II. With the Pope seeing the document first hand already, no one can change it or raise objections to it.

    Hopefully, the liberals were cut off from the process. They were blindsided.

    Let's all pray that the outcome is 100% positive for the SSPX.

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  23. Carlos Antonio Palad10:47 PM

    P.K.T.P:

    As you mention, Iloilo (Archdiocese of Jaro) has an approved diocesan TLM in addition to those of the SSPX.

    At present, the SSPX has many mission centers and Masses in dioceses that don't have any TLM at all, but none of these SSPX Masses are every-Sunday.

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  24. Anonymous11:27 PM

    I attend the Catholic Mass in several states because of work. None of them are exactly filling the pews. The Prote-Catholic types just don't care. If they go to church on Sunday at all. The faithful Faithful already travel several hours one way to attend the Holy Mass offered by the SSPX. I will continue to do so. So I do not see how anything will change.

    But I recall that the Cure d'Ars had a similar situation and by his piety and humility and preaching the Truth of what the Faith teaches, a complete reversal took place. The rest is history. It could certainly happen again. Especially after the Consecration finally takes place. Maybe that is what all this is about? Making straight the path? After all, if the Consecration was made and the only "Catholic Church" was the Conciliar one...there could be no conversions and flowering of vocations now could there? That would be rather silly.

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  25. Fidus et Audax3:45 AM

    Fr. Capreolus.. Done. And thank you for the link.

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  26. P.K.T.P., if I may, I wanted to add an addendum to your list with the addition of the Archdiocese of Paris (a la Saint Nicholas du Chardonnay) and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (City of Arcadia has an SSPX parish).

    Matt

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