Rorate Caeli

On abortion, it is possible to move back to sanity

There is not a "law of history" that determines the worldwide spread of legal abortion on demand. And if an increasingly Islamic Turkey, first inspired by the Christian pro-life movement throughout the West, is to become an avant-guard nation in the defense of unborn life, while formerly Christian nations massacre their babies, then so be it - let us follow in the pro-life steps of Turkey. It will be a strong sign from a land in the heart of Eurasia against the concept that laws that abet the state-sanctioned (and often tax-financed) murder of the unborn only move in the sense of further "liberalization", that is, further bloodshed, and cannot be revised, reversed, and abrogated.

Following strong remarks by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan against abortion last week, Turkish Health Minister Recep Akdağ announced on Wednesday that the ministry plans to complete its work on a draft bill on abortion next month and present it to the Cabinet.

The content of the bill is not clear, but there are reports that the government plans to decrease the time up to which abortions can legally be performed from 10 weeks to four or five weeks into a pregnancy. Akdağ added that he personally believes that no abortion should be performed unless it is a medical necessity. [Today's Zaman]

Erdogan sparked the row last week when he told the women’s arm of the governing Justice and Development Party that abortion is murder and its proponents are trying to cripple Turkey’s economic success by curbing population growth. The premier said today that Turkey is seeking to follow in the steps of anti-abortion [sic] movements in the U.S. and the West.

“There’s no difference between killing a fetus in the mother’s womb and killing someone after birth,” he said at a hospital opening in Istanbul. “This cannot be allowed.” [Bloomberg]

Abortion on demand up to the 10th week of pregnancy has been legal in Turkey since 1983, and for the entire length of the pregnancy if the life or health of the mother are at risk or in the case of "fetal impairment". 


  1. Ferraiuolo11:01 AM

    Thanks be to God. Whilst most Catholics turn a blind eye to this most grave crime against humanity, at least the Mohammedans are faithful to their teachings on this.

  2. Foreigner11:58 AM

    Please excuse me as I mean no offense, but it's nice to see Rorate approach the Islamic world - for all of its errors and evils - with a somewhat more balanced approach.

  3. St. Joan of Arc pray for us12:08 PM

    @ Ferraiuolo

    It is never good to give credit, even false credit to something of the Devil. Islam is of the Devil. And just like the ways of the Devil, it maintains a bit of what is not evil so as to fool the foolish. Good fruit doesn't come from an evil tree. Like the small amounts of Truth cherrypicked by Protestantism, it was taken from Catholicism when they to give birth to a religion of their own making. With the help of Satan. If you want to give credit for a government leader speaking the truth about abortion and doing something to rid their country of the scourge, give it to Hungary.

    Please take no offense at my criticism. God bless you, Ferraiuolo whoever you are.

  4. Christians should emigrate en mass to the middle east! At least there we can live in a God centered society (albeit quietly perhaps).

  5. Sadly, most western modernists will simply see this as further 'proof' how backwards anyone who doesn't live within their own group-think ...

  6. Please allow me to say that we can still misstep. Abortion is against the natural law. It has consequences in the natural world. Europe and Asia are beginning to wake up to the reality of the financial consequences to abortion (in terms of skilled labor shortages and smashed markets), not the supernatural. They are prepared, now that they have destroyed marriage, to force women into even greater slavery than we now suffer, by abolishing abortion without changing any other condition in which women live. The recent gains in the 'pro-life' movement are less due to people waking up to the supernatural consequences than to the natural. To prove my point, just watch who comes 'on board' the next six months, and watch also to see if there seems to be growth in regard for life-long sacramental marriage, or in calls for the baptism of the babies saved outside abortion clinics, or in any of the supernatural tags that would indicate growth. They are not there. What is to be done? I personally can see only one way out, a very radical way, the full-bore, full-monty call for the restoration--along with our anti-abortion calls. Only in a Catholic state (in interim stages, but on the road) can women enjoy the protections necessary to transform the difficulty of our physical natures on earth into a decent and peaceful life. Without it, and in the world as it is today especially, life for women is hell. If you must, look outside your own circle. Look at what has happened to African American women in our present economy. Look further, at women in China. See how far we will fall! Your daughters, your sisters, eventually. We are living the Handmaiden's Tale, the true version. They wish to control our fertility, it need not only be in the direction of killing our offspring. This is why I, personally, have supported those traditionalists who have recognized the immediate danger of secularism and so-called 'religious liberty,' of abandoning the idea that Christ absolutely must be king of our societies. Marcel Lefebvre understood the practical rolling out of secularism. In short, please help fight the notion that all will be well as soon as we make abortion illegal again. It will not be. We must have marriage again, we must end divorce, we must end pornography, we must make children so welcome, here and later headed for heaven, and none of those elements can be skipped, or women get slavery. Please don't just hate abortion, we must also *improve* the lot of women by adding Christ! This means the Restoration--again.

  7. There are only three countries in the European Union which retain laws against abortion. You have Luxembouge, Malta and Ireland; but with the first two it is easy to jump the pond or hop on a train to attain abortion.

    What are we to think of the wholesale slaughter of babies in the place they should be safest: the womb?

  8. "St. Joan of Arc", you know that the prime minister of Hungary is a Protestant, right? And that despite the changes in the new Constitution, which we praised here, the legislation on abortion is currently still the same as it was, that is, one of the most "liberal" (that is, one of the bloodiest) in the world. You know it, right?

  9. Petitioner of St. Joan of Arc -

    Giving greater protection of law to protect the lives of unborn children is not "of the Devil." Any government that gives such protection deserves credit and praise for doing a good work. If they are cherry-picking the truth from Catholicism, good for them: Cherry-pick away.

    Jan Baker - Viva Cristo Rey!

  10. New Catholic, good point.

    My best friend is from Hungary, was raised Catholic, but is now, well, nothing (by that, I mean to say neither protestant, Catholic, or anything else).

    I've strolled the Danube, and Hungary is a beautiful country ravished by Communist Russia (where abortion is the normal form of contraception).

    Would that VII have said a word about that evil (communism, that is) instead of raving about Hindus?

  11. But I will say this, we Traditionalists need to give credit where credit is due; though VII fumbled the ball as to Communism, JPII kicked it out of the field!

  12. Poland has a fairly restrictive abortion regime as well - it's also the only EU country where opposition to abortion outpolls support for it.

  13. P.K.T.P.6:17 PM

    Sorry, but I cannot imagine Sweden or any country in Europe taking the lead from Turkey.

    Abortion is direct murder. Even those who deny the status of the enwormbed baby must concede logically that their definition of personhood proceeds from a questionable philosophy. When in doubt, one does not assume that the shadow in the forest is a deer when it might be a man. One cannot justify shooting that shadow just because the pregnancy is inconvenient.

    A re-affirmation of the truth must come from a solid Christian base, and it will. This, in turn, requires an overthrow of liberal claptrap which, at the moment, is not retreating but is developing from one absurdity to the next. The sixties revolution can only These 'gay-straight' partnerships, for example, are still hilarious to me, and I cannot even imagine them appearing when I was a schoolboy. Unthinkable. But the unthinkable is now the order of the day. A revolution can only be cured by a counter-revolution, and that must start with the Faith, at the centre of which is the Mass.

    In the meantime, of course we must not wait: we must fight abortion with everything at our disposal. But our present campaign goes beyond what is humanly possible and must be grounded entirely in prayer. Remember that the liberals achieved the seemingly impossible without prayer; however, as it turns out, their revolution was prepared philosophically for many decades and, as a function of desacralisation of Western culture, it is arguable that its origins go right back to the Late Middle Ages. It was a change from a theocentric to an anthropocentric worldview.

    Yes, in the short term, if Turkey can help fight this evil, then we should not reject this help. But it can only be a 'patch' in the breaking dam. The Muslims reveal their uncertainty, not their certainty, in their recent violent behaviour: a certain man does not need to resort to violence, for he is sure that he is right. It is the Scandinavians, not the Turks, who are most determined, and it is they who are winning a the moment.


  14. This is an interesting discussion. Is the Islamisation of a secular state (Turkey) a good, because it results in the protection of the lives of the unborn? I would have to agree with Jan Baker and the more cautious comments here. Any positive good here is illusory. The Islamisation of a secular state (European states will be next) will lead to the suppression of religious freedom and the suppression of the true faith (as well as the subjugation of women). As apostasy is the ultimate evil (cutting us off more completely from God than even mortal sin cf. Pius XII) and worse than murder, we should reject Islam and Islamisation even when it does good.

  15. Knight of Malta,

    You say : "Would that VII have said a word about that evil (communism, that is) instead of raving about Hindus?"

    Vatican 2 said nothing abbot Communism. The reasons are interesting, although I believe they are shameful.

    You may well find study of Vatican 2 and the apparent agreement not to condemn Communism very interesting.

  16. JTLiuzza7:56 PM

    Jan Baker's post is a good one. As far as abortion, I don't see how we can continue to leave contraception out of the equation. The two are linked.

    While Church teaching certainly hasn't changed on contraception, in practice that is hardly the case. Most people who call themselves Catholic use contraception. And you generally hear nothing about that from the pulpit or from bishops. That needs to change and it should go hand in hand with the worthy efforts to end abortion.

    There is reason for optimism on the abortion front, but the silence on contraception I think is troublesome. I'm not talking about legislation vis a vis contraception. What we need is firm action and forthright teaching from our bishops and from our pastors, regularly. That's where it must start. Our shepherds can no longer turn a blind eye to the contraceptive mindset that has become saturated in the west.

  17. The "secular" nature of the modern Turkish state was always an illusion - let us remember, for instance, that Islam always remained the state religion for all effects (the Diyanet has always remained the state authority for religious matters), and that Christianity was very much persecuted by the "secular" state, that practically eliminated any trace of Christianity from Anatolia and East Thrace, where over a million Christians still lived at the time of the founding of the Republic.

    So it is still a very good thing that babies's lives will be saved, and I am horrified by a comment above. (We are not speaking of the Islamization of a Christian nation, but a religious intensification in a nation that has remained Muslim.)

  18. The world really is divided into “glass half full“ and “glass half empty“ people. I prefer the former approach: credit where it‘s due. Although it‘s too bad that people who follow false religions do not follow the true one, in my opinion we should be delighted and give thanks and praise to the good Lord when they nevertheless perceive glimpses of the Truth, even if only as through a mist.

    I think it is Catholic dogma that whenever any person, Christian or otherwise, perceives a truth or does a genuinely good work it can only be through the grace of God, the author of all truth, who does not leave anyone completely in ignorance of what is true or without the capacity to do good. Must we not believe that even though the false religions are the work of the evil one, God has seen to it that they preserve elements of the Truth that He still can use to His good ends?

  19. Mary Kay3:01 AM

    The law of God is written in the heart of man. We should rejoice any time people heed it. That inclination comes from our God.

  20. Barbara4:31 AM

    JTLiuzza said: "As far as abortion, I don't see how we can continue to leave contraception out of the equation. The two are linked."

    I couldn't agree more.

    "Our shepherds can no longer turn a blind eye to the contraceptive mindset that has become saturated in the west."

    I've been on the front-lines of the pro-life movement for years and I wholeheartly agree with you.

    If I say that contraception is "grave matter" - no one really bats an eyelid - but if a priest says it - people will absolutely pay attention - and even react in a bad way sometimes...which can be a good thing...

    I also agree with what Jan Baker said.

    Abortion is so hideous that any attempt from anyone to prevent it is wonderful - even though Islam is basically a load of old rubbish - and creepy to boot!

  21. Keep this in mind while reading Erdogan's comment, Islam teaches that the soul animates the fetus 4 months after conception.

    While Christianity (and biological science) teaches that life begins at conception.

    Yet we find the muslims vigorously banning abortion, while Christian and secular west do not. Irony.

  22. Picard8:05 PM


    You are right - apostasy is much worse than abortion.

    But exactly therefore the Islamisation is not the worst thing, because western liberalism leads to the same apostasy, or even a worse form:

    Islamic Countries lead to apostasy from Christianity, but also make some good, strong believers (and if necessary martyrs)

    western liberalism leads to apostasy and atheism, what is worse than mohamedanism.

    And it does not produce so much martyrs but weakens the faith slowly and leads much more into hell than mohamedanism, most probably.

    And in addition western liberalism also kills more babys, so...

    (So: mohamedanism: apostasy
    western liberlism: much more apostasy + atheism + abortion - so what is worse?!)

  23. Barbara7:08 PM

    Picard, In my view they are both equally evil! But I tend to think that Islam is worse.
    The latest from Egypt: Muhammad Morsi, of the Muslim Brothers and candidate for the presidency has declared that if elected he will force conversion on the Christians and Jews (dhimmi), make them pay taxes (jizya) or force them into exile.He wants Eygypt to become completely Islamic.

    This is the legacy of a warmonger, and womaniser who invented a very creepy religion that destroyed so much of Christianity in Northern Africa. It is a well known fact that it is only a matter of time before the muslims have real political power in Europe, given the invasion of immigrants everywhere.

    Liberalism and Islam? I would go for the former if faced with a choice..


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