Rorate Caeli

Pope's greatest friend and most influential Cardinal:
"way of celebrating Mass" will have to be "reformed" - once again...

The man closest to the new Pope at the moment of his presentation to the world at the night of his election was Cardinal Hummes, standing by his side at the loggia.

On Saturday, the Pope revealed that even the choice of his name was due to Cardinal Hummes, O.F.M., Archbishop Emeritus of Sao Paulo, Brazil, and former Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, a man certain to yield immense influence in the new pontificate, even if (probably) not in formal positions of power:

Some people wanted to know why the Bishop of Rome wished to be called Francis. Some thought of Francis Xavier, Francis de Sales, and also Francis of Assisi. I will tell you the story. During the election, I was seated next to the Archbishop Emeritus of Sao Paulo and Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Claudio Hummes: a good friend, a good friend! When things were looking dangerous, he encouraged me. And when the votes reached two thirds, there was the usual applause, because the Pope had been elected. And he gave me a hug and a kiss, and said: “Don't forget the poor!” And those words came to me: the poor, the poor. Then, right away, thinking of the poor, I thought of Francis of Assisi. Then I thought of all the wars, as the votes were still being counted, till the end. Francis is also the man of peace. That is how the name came into my heart: Francis of Assisi.

On this same day, Cardinal Hummes granted an extensive interview on the plans of the new pontificate to the largest Brazilian daily, Folha de Sao Paulo, speaking on the future of the Church and the reforms that must happen; the interview was published under the title "The Church does not work anymore". [Tip and translation: Reader; source.] Here is one of his most relevant answers:

[Q:] In what sense is reform necessary?

[Cardinal Hummes:] Not just of the Curia, but many other things: our way of celebrating ["fazer", lit. "making", "doing"] mass, of doing evangelization, this new evangelization needs new methods. The pope spoke in the meeting with the cardinals of new methods, we need to find new methods.

But mainly the Roman Curia was mentioned, that it needs to be reformed structurally. It is too large, but all this need a study, we do not have many coordinates.

Many say it is too large, that an extension was made here, another there, another room here, another commission there, but this one here does not have sufficient prestige... All these things that happen in such a structure.

The church does not work anymore. This whole question that happened lately shows how she does not work. And, once this new design is made, you have to look for the people adapted to fill these positions, these jobs.


  1. Benedict Carter10:49 AM

    The Mass, always the Mass.

    Those who know what the Church is know the central importance of the Mass. Both those who love the Church and Her enemies.

    We stand on one side, these Revolutionaries on the other.

    They are the enemies of us, of the church and of God.

    1. Anonymous12:39 PM

      It is the mass that matters. As an Irish Catholic we only know too well that without the preservation of the Holy Catholic mass we would not have survived 800 years of brutal suppression. Many ouside Ireland believe that our historic struggle was about land or this thing or that thing. In fact it was always about one thing and one thing only namely to get rid of Catholicism and in particular the Holy Mass, the summit of our faith. Until Catholics recognise that the war is against our mass and Jesus most fully present in the most Holy sacrament of the Altar, banality and irreverence will continue unabated. If the Church hierarchy recognises this not one inch of ground will be lost to the enemy as long as we maintain our Holy Mass. I hope and pray that Pope Francis will recognise this as Pope Benedict did. I would recommend the following reading for those interested in what really is at stake here ' Irelands loyalty to the mass ' by Fr Augustine O.M.Cap. The Neumann press. This book has the capability to really change hearts and minds. St Patrick Ora Pro Bonus.

  2. We are in deep trouble. Things are no longer presrved and transmitted and applied to new situation. They are created and changed at a whim. We are heading for a show down.I cannot see many of the cardinals agreeing or going along with what we are about to have unleashed! It sounds to me as if there is a serious problem when men like Mahoney start getting excited. But Mahoney is thinking his crimes will be forgotten. HE NEEDS REMOVING. Oh no it's just occured to me he voted in the conclave. Being the big ego maniac he is I am sure he sought revenge on those who have opposed him. That is why he SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO THE CONCLAVE.

  3. Patrick Gray10:54 AM

    To arms! The Protestant heretics first attacked the Mass - the Sanctissimum was derided as 'Jack in the box' 'Round robin' and ''Worm's Meat'.The Revolution is back in full swing. Our Lord have mercy on us.

  4. Wathcing the Angelus from Rome. The Holy Father quoted Cardinal Kasper in his address. I do not mean to be disparaging. I only report a fact. The Holy Father said he read Cardinal Kapser's book on mercy and was glad he read it.

    Cardinal Kasper...

  5. Anonymous11:59 AM

    So now we will have a reform of the reform of the reform!

    A Convert

  6. A lawyer friend of mine often says he doesn't believe in coincidences.

  7. Prof. Basto12:32 PM

    The label "Continuing liturgical Revolution" is very appropriate.

    Let us not delude ourselves: with Pope Francis, supported by Cardinal Hummes, the Rupturists are in charge.

    The hermeneutic of continuity is banished from the See of Peter.

    And the Rupturists will want to impose in everything their liberal views, but, first and foremost in the question of the Liturgy.

    They too know that the liturgy is the most important field, but they like to pretend that they are just "simplifying things", and that they do it for the sake of humility and simplicity.

    As Cardinal Mahony pointed out, however, their goal is another. They have a vision of a Protestantized "Low Church", and they want to implement that vision at the expense of destroying Catholic Tradition.

    And the Positivists, who already are saying "these are not Matters of Dogma"; "the Pope is the Master of the Liturgy", will support this with their docility, as will those who want to believe that the Pope was directly picked by the Holy Spirit, who are ready to believe that it is the Holy Spirit who positively desires change. There are many people who, under the influence of this humility propaganda, are already treating the Holy Father as a perfect man. There are many who, because they have a distorted view of the Papacy, would be acritical of ANY Pope, even if Dannneels were elected.

    And so, there are many who will now abandon the defence of tradition and of the hermeneutic of continuity, just because we are "under new direction".

    There are even those who like to see in this election of Bergoglio, a Cardinal who, in the last conclave, received by all accounts the second largest share of votes, a sign that perhaps the right man was not picked in 2005. Hence, according to this view, the Holy Spirit influenced him to relinquish the Papal Office, and now, in 2013, 8 years later, the "right man", wanted by God, is finally chosen. Thus, under this distorted view, many will accept the new Pope Francis undoing of the actions of former Pope Benedict XVI as natural.

  8. Anonymous12:39 PM

    "Houston, we have a problem."

  9. Introitus12:43 PM

    I'm only in my twenties. It seemed clear to me two months ago that the Church had finally start to put Vatican II in perspective and begin the long, hard work of restoring Catholic culture and fixing the Church. I used thank God I was alive now, because I didn't know how I would have survived the chaos of the 1970s. The older generations around me who were calling for more reform just seemed out of touch.

    But in the past three days, it looks like the Church is dong an about face, and what we all thought was the beginning of a true restoration was really just a hiatus in "double dip" crisis. Now us young hopefuls are the ones who look out of touch.

    For those of you who were alive back in the 70s, how did you make it through? How did you preserve your devotion to the Papacy when you had a Pope whose proactive reforms were gong to harm the Church? I'm looking for real advice here. I think I speak for a lot of people, because this election has turned my world upside down.

  10. You've got to be kidding me? If they want to change the mass again, then what other things will be changed..... Everyone is acting like the church was born 50 years ago......! Tsk tsk tsk.... That being said, viva il papa.

  11. Pater, O.S.B.12:58 PM

    As my Godmother always says: 'Half of the problems that caused me the greatest anguish in my life never happened.'

    Yes, there are many troubling signs, but it is too early to judge. If and when we must face our worst nightmare, we must do what is necessary, with God's help. Until then, let us not let the devil take advantage of our fears.

  12. I am not poor. My ten year old car is paid for. I manage to pay my bills and the rent on my two room apartment. I wear secondhand but clean and comfortable clothes and never have to go hungry, I still manage (its a struggle for an older man) to pay my health care premiums every month. I manage to leave a decent offering every week in the basket. The Church is (and I quote) "A poor church for the poor." I suspect I do not qualify and I do not think the Holy Father was referring to the 'poor in spirit'. No I don't.

  13. Anonymous1:11 PM

    Michigander says,

    These words of Cardinal Humes demonstrate more than all others, that just as the resignation of Celestine V was a disaster for the Church, so the resignation of Benedict XVI.

    The one consolation is, that if they wreck Paul VI's mass, there will be nothing left to restore at the next Pontificate, but the True One.....

    So let's not despair...perhaps Pope Francis is the best punishment the liberals will get: self distruction!

  14. Maybe he is talking about the clown masses in South and Central America, will have to be reformed! the article was posted in Argentina, wasn't it.

  15. Way to go1:39 PM

    I was a non-practising Catholic for many years. Now, I can't see the point in being a Catholic again. The new Pope is quickly going to bring back many of, or all, the things that made me stop practising in the first place. I am extremely sad about all this.

  16. Xacinto Bastida1:42 PM

    Last question (and answer) is very interesting, too: about celibacy and women's ordination.

    "...Pope is very open to listen."

  17. In the same interview he also talks about priestly celibacy, women ordination - apparently the Pope is willing to listen and talk about it -, ecumenism, inter-religious dialogue and theology of liberation.

    Today the Pope said that he was reading a book by Cardinal Kasper...

  18. Kathleen2:13 PM

    QUOTE: Xacinto Bastida

    Last question (and answer) is very interesting, too: about celibacy and women's ordination.

    "...Pope is very open to listen."


    Is there any way we could get the balance of the article translated?

  19. I ask what Introitus asked, for our situation is the same.

  20. Papa Bergoglio: il nostro orgoglio. Let's hope it doesn't turn into Papa Bergoglio: il nostro imbroglio!

  21. Benedict Carter2:50 PM

    He called Kasper today an important and good theologian.

    Introitus and John:

    Without wanting to be thought an advisor, for I am not sure that my own situation would offer a parallel to be learned from (disgusted as a youngster by the changes and the idiocies, in the middle to late 1970's I stopped practicing the Faith for the best part of 30 years, with only the odd Mass and Confession here and there), I can try to summarize the reaction of my deeply-pious parents.

    As the late 1960's turned into the hideous 1970's, they went through a series of reactions and emotions which started with bewilderment and ended in scorn and disgust, but all accompanied by grief.

    You are a different generation and things in many ways are less bleak through the mercy of God than they were for my parents. Therefore no need for great grief, but a great need for resolution.

    Essentially, in your position I myself would ideally attend Mass only with the SSPX or other Traditionalist priest; have your Confessions heard by the most Catholic Novus Ordo priest you can find; and don't bother listening to any of the relativist Modernist nonsense that comes out of Rome.

    As Bishop Schneider said a couple of years ago, you'll be one of those who retains one's faith in Jesus Christ but waits on the margins of the Church for better times. And be grateful that you can do even that.

    Don't feel guilty about this: the powers-that-be don't care about you at all.

    Others may have better advice, and if they do, I will be reading with great interest myself.

  22. Ivan K3:45 PM

    To suggest that Goodness and Truth can be severed from Beauty is heretical. St. Francis would have been scandalized by the protestant idea that one does not owe God the effort of striving for Beauty in the liturgy. They justify their claims by saying that they are concerned for the poor, as if the poor are benefitted by ugliness. The “Low” approach to the liturgy has been very costly. Wrecovrations weren’t cheap; neither are “simple” crucifixes, voodo salad bowl thuribles, and all of the elaborate trappings of the “Low” liturgy.
    The pious bows and prayers of the Extrordinary Form do not cost more; neither do Gregorian Chant, an ad orientem altar, and all of the signs of the traditional Mass. All of that can be and has been accomplished in very poor parishes in Africa. Mahony and his ilk aren’t helping the poor with their liturgies. Not one single poor person is helped by the decision to wear one garment rather than another.

  23. Anonymous3:45 PM

    A few comments were accidentally deleted, my apologies.

  24. Should Francis be forced to resigne, would he be Emeritus the Second?

  25. Anonymous3:49 PM

    I am happy for these developments.

    As someone who believes in a literal creation by God, I have long been ostracized from Mass by left and right wingers alike. Those on the right have been more dangerous and have caused me great personal harm - losing a wife, fortune, job, and all of that.

    Opus Dei and other conservative fellows who really care about consolidating power and wealth while giving a narcissistic appearance of holiness can gnash their teeth over the lack of red shoes and limousines for the pope. Eventually, these folks will have to chose between power and submission, and either way they will lose. They most likely will want to maintain their power, and this means that we will see that infamous Opus Dei church in Great Falls, Virginia swing left. I cannot wait for the great hypocrisy to begin.


  26. Wake Up England3:51 PM

    INTOITUS: In England the 1970s were pretty bleak in or out of church, frankly.
    I straddled both the old and new Masses; first Communion in the old rite and quite soon afterwards, the New Mass. At school we went to Sunday Mass at St John's Seminary Wonersh, Surrey. When the "Big Change" came the old altar was left and a table was placed in front; much of the Mass was already in English, so one didn't really notice the remaining bits in Latin changing into English. It all seemed perfectly natural. The Mass was still sung by the seminarians (all of whom continued to wear cassocks and cottas). Insense was still used and it was all very decent. Benediction remained in Latin; but the fast before Communion was reduced from Three hours to one hour. We were told that we could either abstain from flesh-meat on Fridays, or do some other sort of penance. The option to receive Communion standing was made sort-of compulsory because the priest stood still in the middle giving Communion (before he walked up and down, crossing the sanctuary giving Communion to the people who were kneeling). It all seemed quite reasonable and sensible; and I don't remember many people complaining. It was all just accepted as normal.

    Then, a few years later, came the announcement we could receive communion under both kinds (chalice and host)if the Mass was concelebrated. Then we were told we could have Communion in the hand. It was explained that this was the original way of having Communion, and how the Apostles received it. It was also supposed to reduce the risk of spreading germs. "Folk Masses" were then quite popular with guitars and modern hymns (some good, some awful). Fewer women seemed to wear hats, but no-one really noticed, or minded. You see, it all happened QUITE SLOWLY, over 10 years or so. It was not an overnight change. There was no "preparation" or warning of the newest innovations - it was just announced by the priest. Being obedient, everyone just accepted each change as normal; at least my age group did. So don't be depressed Introitus; and whatever you do DON'T GIVE UP GOING TO MASS and Confession.

    Perhaps an old-fashioned idea from my childhood is the concept of "Offering UP" our sufferings and dismay in this life. Every time you offer up a hardship (or illness or sadness or misfortune) you make some small atonement for your past (absolved) sins (or you can give it to a soul in Purgatory for their benefit). Remember all forgiven sins must be paid for either in this world or the next. So we're lucky to have something to offer up. In the worst cases of dreadful liturgy sit at the back and say the rosary. Please don't lose heart.

  27. Katylamb3:53 PM

    To those who asked. Vatican II happened when I was a teenager. I found the new Mass boring after the beauty of the Mass of my childhood. How did I get through? I knew the teachings of the Church and I obeyed them as best I could. Soon I realized that Jesus was still there and so was the true Church. The gates of hell cannot prevail. Go to Mass and communion, confession, and try to love God more and more. Don't have a spirit of complaint because it is not the pope who will be judged at your death, but you yourself. One pope does not make or break the Church. My advice-harsh but true- is to accept the Church as it is and get on with living a good Catholic life. Otherwise, you might as well nail your 95 theses to the door and go be your own pope.

  28. Prof. Basto3:59 PM

    Good advice, Benedict Carter.

    I am considering not watching the Innauguration Mass myself.

    For centuries, Catholics lived in distant lands without knowing what was going on in Rome on a daily basis.

    At this point, one has to think of one's own private life of Faith, about one's own salvation, instead of focusing on the path ahead for the Church at large.

    In the macroscopic aspect of things, I imagine that the situation of the Church will be very bleak. But, in the microscopic aspect of one's own life of Faith, it will perhaps still be possible to find refuge by attending Summorum Pontificum Masses.

    If Summorum Pontificum is abrogated (consider that possibility), we will have either to go to groups in irregular situation such as the SSPX, or we will have to do as may of us did before. Search for Mass in a parish where there is a faithful priest, or in a monastery that does things more traditionally.

    The great risk is that of falling in the situation described by Benedict Carter, of abandoning the life of Faith and becoming a nominal Catholic. It has happened to me too, in the past.

    Yesterday, I was watching this video of an Eastern Catholic Divine liturgy on youtube (the Cherubic Hymn, Liturgy of St. Basil:, and the tought crossed my mind:

    If things get really bad, if the influence of the Progressives once again affects my parish life, then perhaps it will be time to start attending Eastern Catholic Liturgies instead of Latin Rite ones. I'm a subject of the Latin Church, but the Eastern Catholic Rites are Catholic Masses, and they satisfy the Sunday Obligation. It may be a good shelter.

  29. John, Introitus,

    I was a teenager in the 70's (born in 1960). I have minimal recollection of the 60's; I remember the Canon still being in Latin, and I remember when that changed.

    As the Novus Order was implemented, I had the great blessing of an "old-school" pastor who implemented all the changes as he was required to do, but did so in what we would call today a very "conservative" fashion. He still wore traditional vestments, including the amice (but not the maniple); he used the chalice veil and pall. The devotional life of the parish remained very traditional, or as traditional as it could in those days. Stations of the cross, Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament with the hymns in Latin, etc. Father did what he was required to do, but no more, and quietly grumbled about many of the changes. In many ways I was "sheltered" from the worst of what was going on elsewhere.

    That changed when, due to Father's great influence, I thought I had a vocation to the priesthood, and I was introduced to the diocesan vocations bureaucracy, and the local seminary. I was shocked and appalled. Talk about culture shock! As I mentioned in the "homoheresy" thread here, a few weeks ago, I was not shocked when the ephebophilia scandals hit us full-bore. I had seen it all thirty years ago, and it was just a matter of time before the "poop would hit the fan."

    Throughout all this, it was my old parish priest who kept me sane, and "saved" me from giving up in disgust. Novus Order though he was, he was formed in a different era. In 1979, due to his conservative ways, no doubt, he was forced to retire for "health" reasons at the ripe old age of 59, himself becoming a victim of the Revolution. He was in fine health, and had many active years left in him. He was sacked.

    All these things were very discouraging, but he took it as best he could, and encouraged me to "keep the faith." I eventually moved 1500 miles away, but he and I kept in touch by phone and letters, and everytime I went back home to visit, we met for lunch and long afternoon conversations over cheese and several glasses of red wine. He passed away in 2007, and I still miss him terribly.

    So, after all that, the best answer to your question, as Benedict Carter said, is to ask God to bless you with a holy confessor, a good and strong priest. Our Lord will never refuse such a prayer; He will grant you one.

    It's easy to do, but never give in to despair. Look at the current situation realistically; yes, it is a difficult trial for many of us, but paradoxically, it is also a great blessing. I don't have the quote handy, so I'll paraphrase something Archbishop Lefebvre said: God put us in the midst of all this chaos because he asks us to preserve the Faith. That, in itself, is a great blessing. Accept that with humility, thank Him for giving us the opportunity, and beg Him for the graces we need to persevere, no matter how difficult the task at hand may seem to be. And right now, after Benedict has left us, things are looking as bleak as they have in my lifetime.

  30. I apologise for my shocked reaction at Fr Ray Blake's and Fr Tim Finigan's blogs to the negative remarks on trad blogs - realise now I should have kept my mouth shut - sorry!

  31. When Pope Francis was elected he is reported to have said to the assembled Cardinal's "May God forgive you for what you have done".

    Prophecy? We shall see.

  32. everybody's changin'4:09 PM

    Well, like Benedict Carter, I am not sure I can offer any advice, I am in need of advice myself. Pope Benedict XVI was my "hero" and now I just don't know what's going on. I am trying to take a deep breath and give it a couple of years to give him a chance to prove my fears wrong...maybe....and in that time my kids will be a couple of years older (I worry about confusing them). I am SSPX-friendly but prefer to stay mainstream...I worry about disobedience to the Pope...but if this pans out as the early warning signs are suggesting I think it might be time for plan B. My whole reason for loving Benedict XVI was that it seemed to solve the dilemma...he was heading back in the right direction. Hope was strong. Apart from that just ditto to what Mr. Carter said. SSPX for Mass and be aware of the limits on their jurisdiction. Scary...way too scary for me.

  33. Gregorian Mass4:10 PM

    Bad, Bad, Bad, changing the Mass, yet again? How a Pontificate can come in and flip over 8 years of restoration without consideration for the previous Pontificate is a type of wild disorientation. No longer is continuity between centuries being lost but so is the continuity between Pontificates. Setting one against another is in no way good for the Church. Pope Benedict spoke at length about the liturgy, and he is the expert on it, not Pope Francis. So must we now unlearn what we have been taught? Bad omen indeed.

  34. We shine too big a spotlight on the Pope it seems. We are not going to be judged based upon the actions of the Pope, he will answer for himself. Sanctify yourselves with the traditional Mass, the traditional faith, and the traditional devotions. If you don't sanctify yourself with the traditions of the Church you will be condemned by them - as you will be judged on the greater knowledge you had but refused to use except to bash others in.

  35. Leonardo Boff:

    "Pope Francis is more liberal than you think".

    "His stance on contraception, celibacy and homosexuality followed the conservative line because of the pressure form the Vatican..."

    "A few months ago, for example, he expressly approved the adoption of a child by an homosexual couple. He maintains contact with priests who have been repudiated by the official church because they got married..."

    ["Now that he is Pope he can do whatever he wants."]


  36. Francis in Ma4:34 PM

    We who love the two-thousand years of continuous Catholic orthodoxy and tradition from the time of Our Lord until 1962 are in big trouble with Bergoglio's ascension to the chair of peter. This guy is bad news!

  37. What Bee said. That's the way to grow traditional Catholicism. Don't wait for the Pope or your bishop to do it.

  38. Tom, seriously, we do not need an "Ombudsman" here. Goodbye.

  39. Meanwhile Fr. Z relentlessly tries to reassure the stool pigeons who frequent his blog. Wake up and smell the feces! Change is a-comin'.

  40. Introitus said...
    For those of you who were alive back in the 70s, how did you make it through? How did you preserve your devotion to the Papacy when you had a Pope whose proactive reforms were gong to harm the Church?

    --I was a teenager in the 70’s and so confused that I just left the Church - and the Church didn’t seem to care that I did. After a few years of irreconcilable atheism followed by a few more years of irreconcilable free-lance Christianity, I finally decided that I had to come back to the Truth no matter how ugly a dress it was wearing. Through providence I quickly discovered tradition, picked up a sword and stood with it and never looked back. That was in the late 1980’s. We've won numerous battles and suffered several setbacks since then but our numbers have grown commensurate to the amount of Novus ordo idiocy that has been unleashed over the same period and most conflicts seem to result in a net gain for us. You have every reason to believe that tradition will continue to prevail throughout your lifetime. The battle which seems to be developing currently may very well result in a spectacular renaissance for the Church in the same way the Protestant rebellion of the 16th century led to the splendor of the Council of Trent. God placed you in our time for a reason. Thank Him for the opportunity to serve Him in this struggle and pray that you’ll be able to live up to His expectations. There may be no glory in it while you walk the Earth but Our Lord and future generations will be grateful that you were here to defend Holy Mother Church in Her time of need.

  41. Introitus and John:

    I would strongly urge against taking the advice of Benedict Carter on attending Mass with the SSPX or for that matter with any other priest not in full communion with Rome.

    As a Catholic, attending Mass with SSPX doesn't definitively fulfil your Sunday obligation. Priests of the SSPX also do not exercise a legitimate ministry.

    A faithful Catholic is always better attending a licit Mass as opposed to an illicit Mass.

  42. When the Holy Father appeared at the loggia during his election night, I can't help to notice the presence there of Cardinal Hummes. I WAS REALLY SCARED!!!

    I hope and pray that I will be wrong. The new theology of this pontificate will be: CHURCH OF/FOR THE POOR = CHURCH OF (FALSE) HUMILITY = LIBERATION THEOLOGY


  43. Robbie5:37 PM

    I want to take a deep breath about Pope Francis, but each day brings some new concern. While I never thought the next Pope would return the Traditional Latin Mass, I didn't expect we would end up with one who's shown antagonism towards it.

    I want to believe the concerns we all have are just the sort one might expect when facing an unknown quantity. Truth be told though, I'm not so sure that's the case. I get the real sense, whether there's a third Vatican Council, we're in for major upheaval.

    At this point, I'm left to hope Francis simply does nothing, but he seems ready to do something. Considering those who have surrounded him, I think cause for concern is very real. Just the thought he might be open to celibacy or ordination of women will cause major issues.

    And let's be honest, the fact Francis may want to reform the Mass illustrates how lacking the current one has been. We had one Mass for 1500 years and now we face the prospects of the second form in just 50 years.

    I worry. In fact, I worry a lot about what may happen. Benedict should not have resign. Now, we face a concerning and troubling future.

  44. Benedict Carter5:46 PM

    Prof. Basto:

    As I am resident in Qatar, I think it's time I had a close look at the Maronite Rite Mass which I know we have at the Church here.

    How terrifying, that we should be speaking in such a way!

    The truth is that I no longer expect anything at all from Rome except Permanent Revolution and total doctrinal chaos.

  45. Collector5:52 PM

    I'm happy to see these stories in the comments from those who actually lived through the Council and the subsequent putrefaction born of it. I beg you to continue telling us these stories. I'm in the processing of collecting every story I can of the Conciliar catastrophe. It would be great if this blog had a section devoted exclusively to the collection of such stories before these people die. It's far more important than projects collecting WWII stories.

  46. Prof. Basto6:04 PM

    This is the fault of Pope Benedict XVI.

    It is his fault in his abdication.

    But it is also his fault in his choice of Cardinals, with as many liberals as conservatives elevated.

    It is his fault in his not deposing cardinals such as Mahony and Danneels.

    It is his fault in the timing of the abdication, with Kasper, Hummes and others still Electors.

    And what about the Cardinals that could have been named and weren't?

    We now have a Pope that seems way more radical than Paul VI himself, and decades will be wasted because of his election.


    We already knew that the Martini liberals had coalesced arround Bergoglio in the last Conclave. And the danger was allowed to remain there, unopposed, discreet. He was not analyzed as he should have been!

    Where were the Ratzingerians in the College of Cardinals when they should have opposed the election of the Holy Father with every strength?

    Rodrigo Borgia himself would be a better candidate. At least Alexandrer VI didn't mess with the liturgy!

  47. tommy6:10 PM

    I am from Croatia and we here have great difficulties with the implementation of the pope emeritus Benedict XVI motu proprio Summorum Pontificium as all Croatian bishops are VII great admirers and there is only one church in the whole country (4 000 000 pople) - st. Martin in the capital, Zagreb (Archidiocesis Zagrabiensis, archbishop: cardinal Josip Bozanic) where EF is celebrated each sunday, even this was obtained after group of traditional catholics (now Society Benedictus) had written a letter to Ecclesia Dei commission becouse auxiliary bishop of Zagreb refused all their formal appeals. Even pope Benedict XVI was criticised on the ground that, during His visit to Croatia, He celebrated Mass (NO of course) in Latin!
    So I am just affraid that pope Francis "humility" (He, as "humble pope", is praised in all media here) will lead into litgurgical post-VII abusues which will not be sanctioned by post-VII-"humble bishops" who recently built new and extremly expensive building of the Croatian Episcopal Conference.
    I am praying... .

  48. Francis in Ma6:10 PM

    Benedict Carter,

    The Maronite Mass is a very holy , biblical, Catholic and reverent service. When I can't assist at the TLM I assist at my local Maronite church, since I will NEVER assist at a Novus Ordo service.

  49. Petrus, I would respectfully disagree with you. These are difficult and extraordinary times. There are many fine, fine priests in the SSPX. I know that ostensibly, they are in an irregular situation, but if they are the most orthodox option at hand, I have no doubt that the good Lord will cut us a little slack. Pharisaical adherence to "the rules" doesn't help us when absolute obedience has now become the means to lead us away from the Faith.

    But to be blunt, I would avoid the "SSPX of the Strict Observance," and the Williamsons and Pfeiffers of the world, like the plague.

  50. Patrick7:44 PM

    "For centuries, Catholics lived in distant lands without knowing what was going on in Rome on a daily basis.

    "At this point, one has to think of one's own private life of Faith, about one's own salvation, instead of focusing on the path ahead for the Church at large."

    That is true but eventually news of what was happening in Rome got around. It is natural to avoid unpleasantness but burying one's head in the ground is usually dangerous. Hypothetically what happens if a pope teaches heresy (i.e., is a bona fide heretic) and the majority of the cardinals agree with him? Does it matter, should it matter to the average layman? Or are we just to have our own private faith in spite of what might be taught, much as Protestants do? Up until recently popes gave the appearance of basing their actions on what they had received from their predecessors. With Pope Bergoglio I think we are in store for a leader who is much too quick to act and to speak. What he says and does will be judged. In the past, papal protocol and the curial process made things very slow and presumably well thought out. This pope seems a tad too quick on the draw and that is a quality that historically Arius, Nestorius, etc. shared. I'm also troubled about all this exaggerated public humility alongside multiple reports of snappy,stubborn, vulgar impatience in private. If humility is authentic then flipping into impatience so facilely is positively schizophrenic. Let us remember that a cardinal can humbly refuse the papacy when elected. There are too few who have done so.

  51. Judging from the Mass the Holy Father gave at Santa Anna this morning, his "reform" (of the Novus Ordo) might consist of ---

    1) Communion kneeling and on the tongue

    2) No more grandiose evangelical style Papal Masses à la John Paul II

    3) Simplicity and priestliness

    This morning's Mass was like any number of Masses I have attended throughout the South of France and Italy -- and I cannot see even the slightest inkling of a revisionist desire in the Holy Father's giving of this one.

    The Mass was perhaps not as Latinate as it could have been, and the parish choir is not exactly the best I've ever heard -- but these are trivial concerns compared to the extremely gross Abuses of the Mass that exist in some dioceses.

  52. Benedict Carter9:18 PM


    He hasn't started out yet on his liturgical vandalism, if that's what it is to be. So no-one is judging on the basis of what happens this week or next week.

    When Traditionalist bells peal out the alarm, there is usually a good reason. The bell-ringers have had fifty years' practice.

    So far the alarums are from the company he keeps, his atrocious record in Argentina and how very, very happy the Revolutionaries who have reduced the Church to rubble are at his election.

  53. Marcello10:27 PM

    Ruthenain Rite, here I come!!!

  54. Marcello10:29 PM

    Ruthenian Rite, here I come!!!

  55. Anonymous10:33 PM

    I am tired and weary of this month, probably Heaven-sent penance for my confusion and despair as I mourned for a Pope not yet dead all last month. I'm tired of feeling mournful and weary. I want to get behind my Papa again, as I had with Benedictus XVI. I just wish I could message Pope Francis that the poor WANT an extraordinary Mass; the poor give tithes for a taste of heaven; feed the poor with that which is better than bread and soup: the holy liturgy. If he's so concerned for the poor, let him be concerned for the REAL FOOD of the Church, Jesus.

  56. Reform of the Reform of the Reform?

  57. Ora et Labora1:45 AM

    I think it is wise for us to keep going to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, I pray they will still be allowed.

    But I am very concern and very worried.

    The other option is to attend the other rites of the Catholic Church (excet for the Anglican of course).

    I was born in the Roman Rite and I belong to the Roman Rite but with all the disaster of the Novus Ordus Masses in the Archidiocese I belong, I consider myself blessed for the Tradentine Mass, and the Byzentine Masses I attend.

    So this is the best suggestion I have for anyone who is concern with the reform of the reform of the reform.

    The Byzentine Masses are very beautiful and even though it might take some time to get used to, I feel blessed by the grace of attending a Mass that is truly Holy in every way, the prayers are just beautiful, simply beautiful.

    The blessing of Holy Water and other religious articles is properly done.

    So we can still be faithful INSIDE the Church which is what I recommend.

    Like others, I agree that the key is to find a Holy priest God will grant you that grace indeed, go to frequent confession and pray uncessantly throughout the day.

    Pray and work, believe me you can do it. Silent prayer when you're working is necessary. Always remain continuously prayerful.

    Remember God will intervene, I know He will, in the meantime Our Lord instructed us what to do. We are the Militant Church, men and women alike, so as soldiers who are in full mortal combat with the enemy.


    Ephesians 6:11-18.

    Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground. So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit.

    Viva Cristo Rey y Santa Maria de Guadalupe!!!

    Mary Help of Christians pray for us!!!

    Holy Angels and Saints pray for us!!!

    1. Byzantine is not an option for many people. The one in my diocese is an ethnic church and the parishioners would not be happy to have a non Greek.

  58. Lynda1:51 AM

    Why does Pope Francis not genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament??? Is it true that he said "for all" instead of "for many"? I cannot bear to see any more.


  59. Another great post from Rorate, although a sad one given its contents. Please keep hitting the neo-conservatives hard with the truth, unpleasant as it may be. If Catholics in the 60's had refused the blind and cultish following of everything a pope says, does, thinks, dreams about, etc., we might not have heard the first revolution, under Paul VI. A healthy skepticism and wariness about the potential liberalizing aims of the present pontificate could be what spares us from a second revolution.

    God bless all on St. Patrick's day. He drove the snakes from Ireland; may he, together with Our Lady, likewise drive the modern serpents from the Church.

  60. Oh my gosh, just have hope in Gorgeous George!!

  61. Robbie said, "Francis may want to reform the Mass illustrates how lacking the current one has been. We had one Mass for 1500 years and now we face the prospects of the second form in just 50 years."

    Really, Robbie? Is that just wishful thinking? I hope you saw (check out YouTube) the Pope's first Mass the day after his accession. Anything there to make you think anything great and wonderful is coming to the Novus Ordo? All of that went into seclusion with Benedict. With all of the baggage this Pope has as well as that which is being extolled of him, it isn't the Novus Ordo he'll be going after. He'll be going after the Tridentine Mass. This avowed anti-Traditionalist is going to make sure the Tridentine Missal is high-kicked over the fence. Alter or supress that Missal and Traditionalists and advocates of the Truth no longer will have a leg to stand on. Game over!! No one then is able to assert the primacy of Sacred Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church becasuse the reasons for it have just been rewritten/eliminated.

  62. Pontificator6:19 AM

    But mainly the Roman Curia was mentioned, that it needs to be reformed structurally.

    How about the Church puts the pope as Prefect of the the Holy Office by default like it used to be. (It is odd that the only man with the charism of infallibility in matters of doctrine is not the prefect of the Church's highest congregation on doctrine.

    Also, restructure the whole curia so that the Cardinal Secretary of State isn't so powerful as to be a power unto himself. Put the pope back in charge of the Vatican, and undo the reforms that have been plaguing the structure of the curia since Paul VI.

    Undo much of the restructuring implemented under Paul VI's Apostolic Constitution Regimini Ecclesiae Universae which sought to undermine the pope's control of the curia.

    The prefects should NOT report to the Cardinal Secretary of State they should report directly to the pope who will then either direct the prefects or have the Secretariat of State coordinate these departments at his command. Otherwise the pope, can be cut off from the workings of his curia.

  63. Benedict Carter8:02 AM

    Robbie and others:

    Please, please drop the naivety for goodness sake!

    A permanent feature of the Church's life now, indeed one of the main philosophical underpinning of how the current mob in charge view the Church and Her very essence, Her nature, is that of PERMANENT REVOLUTION.

    Where it comes from precisely I cannot say, but it must be a combination of things: Marxism, Masonry, the 19th century infatuation with "progress", an scientific mind-set, Germanic-French Enlightenment philosophies.

    Humanity changes through time, they say, therefore the Church must change with humanity in order to best reflect the Gospel in today's world.

    The Church and every aspect of Her life for them thus become an object to be acted upon, not an immutable subject which acts.

    It means they can change whatever they want and give the above as their excuse.

    If Hummes and others are talking about a reform of the liturgy, then I reckon we might expect things like this:

    * Much greater latitude to the laity to preach and give out Communion;

    * An even greater emphasis on God's Mercy as opposed to His Justice (what that might mean in terms of praxis I cannot think but I bet it's horrible);

    * Laity reading the Gospel.

    As far as the Old Mass is concerned, I think a lot depends on just how radical the New Revolutionaries are. If they are confident in their power, they may just leave the motu proprio and Traditionalists alone - ignore us. This is the best scenario for us that I can see at the moment.

    If they decide to wage war on the Old Mass to force a final extirpation, then we CANNOT sit back.

    I would like to invite Rorate Caeli, all readers here and the entire Catholic blogosphere to start planning for the latter scenario.

    How can we, in different countries and without great resources, mobilise so that they do not dare to attempt the second of these two choices that lie before them?

    How can we organise so that if it comes to it, we can put a couple of million people on the streets of Rome? Direct action has been badly lacking in my view from the Traditionalist Movement since Day One back in the middle 1960's.

    But Robbie et al - the very, very first requirement is that you know your enemy for what he is. Please, drop the wishful thinking and the naivety as soon as possible.

  64. Ora et Labora11:25 AM


    May I suggest something? I think maybe you should go and visit, talk to the priest. You can even go to confession with him.

    You'll be surprise, but they are very understanding of the mess we have with the Novus Ordus Masses, and in regards to the parish being ethenic....I know the feeling, but people will eventually get used to seeing you.
    You will become their familiar stranger or visitor.

    God bless!

    Mary Help of Christians pray for us!!!

    ps.Some churches offer the Divine Liturgy for the most part in English and if they don't there are books with the translation of the Divine Liturgy so you can follow.

  65. Katsumoto2:31 PM

    I've been trying, very hard, to see the good in any of this. I really, really want to believe that the hype about Pope Francis being some sort of Liberal is just paranoia and sensationalism.

    I'd like to hear from some of the priests who are contributors to this blog: what do you think about this article?

  66. Anonymous6:19 PM

    Only the young would be naive. Those of us who have been through the ringer, know better.

    Introitus, I have been a Catholic since the reign of Pius XII.

    I lived through the upheaval and mind boggling sixties and seventies. I watched in absolute horror as everything was dismantled and throw out the VII open window. All the time, I was waiting for the Holy Father "to do something". I thought that surely once he got wind of what was happening, he would fix things.

    I am still waiting. Between you and me and the world wide web, I am old. I do not have the stamina to live through another church revolution.

    It is something you can only go through once; and even that is once too many times.

    Anon 777

  67. orate fratres7:11 PM

    s 18 March, 2013 12:39

    It is the mass that matters. As an Irish Catholic we only know too well that without the preservation of the Holy Catholic mass we would not have survived 800 years of brutal suppression. Many ouside Ireland believe that our historic struggle was about land or this thing or that thing. In fact it was always about one thing and one thing only namely to get rid of Catholicism and in particular the Holy Mass, the summit of our faith. Until Catholics recognise that the war is against our mass and Jesus most fully present in the most Holy sacrament of the Altar, banality and irreverence will continue unabated. If the Church hierarchy recognises this not one inch of ground will be lost to the enemy as long as we maintain our Holy Mass. I hope and pray that Pope Francis will recognise this as Pope Benedict did. I would recommend the following reading for those interested in what really is at stake here ' Irelands loyalty to the mass ' by Fr Augustine O.M.Cap. The Neumann press. This book has the capability to really change hearts and minds. St Patrick Ora Pro Bonus.

  68. Over on his blog, Fr. Z is already busy establishing who will be at fault when (need I even say "if") Pope Francisc decides to go after the Traditional Latin Mass:

    Someone posts on Fr. Z's blog:

    God Bless Papa Francesco….but one does worry about what is going to happen to the E. F. of Holy Mass and The reform of the reform our Dear Pope Benedict put into place.
    Fr Z. any Thoughts????

    Fr. Z. Answers:

    [Not much more than this: Nothing, unless you stop working for it. Nothing has to happen to it. But if those who want it freak out and start acting like jerks about the Pope, then we will lose in days what it took years to gain.]

  69. On Wednesdays I am an altar server in the EF of the Mass; additionally, as a former Episcopalian I recently became a member of the US Ordinariate. Even if Pope Francis decides to celebrate Mass standing on his hands, that's not going to change the way I view or participate in the liturgy - and it's up to the local parishes and laity to continue the groundwork that Benedict XVI implemented.

    I would love to hear the Pope's views on the different things that have been reported, for most of the "news" that we've been hearing since his election has been hearsay and not direct quotes in context. Being married to a Costa Rican and seeing the Mass celebrated down there, I wholeheartedly agree that the way Mass is celebrated has to change - I've never seen it celebrated solemnly and on more than one occasion have seen Masses where the priest has NEVER looked at the Missal until it's time for the Consecration (everything being more of an ad-lib, except for the Readings) - we don't know if THIS kind of celebration is what the Pope meant, so I would just pray about it and listen to what he has to say.

    Personally, I do not believe he would scatter the flock by attacking the EF of the Mass or the Ordinariates (although he may not give them as much support as Benedict has). Only time will tell - regardless, he is in great need of our prayers, especially because he is our Holy Father.

  70. Byzcat2:19 PM

    I spent 3 years in Catholic School in the early 1960's, received my First Eucharist and Confirmation under the Pre-Vatican II rituals, and watched the Church disintegrate before my eyes, simultaneous to the collapse of the moral culture throughout the world. As a teenager, not only was I and my generation (post Korean War babies) deprived of our spiritual patrimony, but we were assailed with the collapse of Catholic culture. When I was a boy we went to confession weekly. The lines to the confessional were long. Three or four priests heard confessions. Exposition and Benediction were celebrated during confession. Altar boys knelt during the entire holy hour. Hymns were chanted in Latin (Tantum Ergo, O Salutaris Hostia), and we had hopes to serve as altar boys and later, as priests. I watched the Church disintegrate as the changes were implemented. The life-like statues were painted sepia. The new altar was installed in front of the high altar Vox Populi. Our Lord was moved into a side alcove which had been reserved for vigil lights. The rosary and other devotions were discouraged or relegated to passe practices that only old ladies practiced.
    Meanwhile, the priest became the focal point during the mass, not Our Lord. I suffered through guitar masses, folk masses, children's masses, etc. The canon was butchered by inventions and all sense of the sacred was lost. The pastor would reinvent the canon of the mass each time he said it. Still, I went to daily mass and said the rosary. After 40 years of suffering, I gave up. I dropped the whole thing for a 5 year sabbatical from the Faith, then re-emerged as a Byzantine Rite Catholic. It is a secure refuge in the chaos that is the modern Catholic Church. The Liturgy is valid, exquisitely beautiful, and doctrinally orthodox. If you cannot stomach the Novus Ordo, come to the Byzantines. The Liturgies of St John Chrysostom and St basil have changed very little over the centuries.

  71. U.S. Catholic10:19 PM

    From Wikipedia:

    "Cláudio Hummes, OFM (Brazilian Portuguese: ['klaudju 'ums], born 8 August 1934) is a Brazilian Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He served as prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy in the Roman Curia (2006–2010), having previously served as Archbishop of Fortaleza from 1996 to 1998 and archbishop of São Paulo from 1998 to 2006. A member of the Order of Friars Minor and an outspoken proponent of social justice, he was elevated to the cardinalate in the consistory of 21February 2001."

    "It was here [Santo Andre'] that he began his support for liberation theology, and forged his friendship with the union boss at the time, Lula."

    "Economic issues --
    Cardinal Hummes has criticized the spread of global capitalism, claiming that privatizing state companies and lowering tariffs had contributed to "misery and poverty affecting millions around the world".[2]At his first public audience following his election, Pope Francis revealed that he had been inspired to take his name from St Francis of Assisi by his good friend Cardinal Hummes who had embraced him at the culmination of the 2013 conclave whispering "don't forget the poor" when it was announced that he had been elected Pope."

    Comment: It is said that the Pope is NOT a proponent of Liberation Theology. However when your Bud apparently is, and he is influential enought to help you with your name choice as pope (supposedly at the last minute in the conclave, like it hadn't been planned before...?) you don't really need to be a liberation theolgian yourself now do you...

  72. Ah! Now we are going to see a reform of the reform of the reform. Time for something new once more. It has been at least a year since we had the last.

  73. Fr. Ron Meyer, OMI3:21 PM

    To be a genuine Roman Catholic Christian, one must be humble, obedient and willing to cooperate with divine grace to do what God wants done. And as each of us begins as a sinner, we struggle to be freed from our chains - encouraged by the example of Jesus, saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, strengthened by the Holy Spirit as Jesus promised. It matters not whether one leans left or right, as long as one moves forward from where we've all been to where God wants us: in heaven for all eternity. And there is only one God ... therefore only one heaven. Pope Francis' first prayer was for his predecessor. All the and the hundreds of Popes before him had to do was keep in step with the Lord, shepherding God's people into holiness. Do Popes sin? Do Popes make mistakes? Do Popes stumble and fall? Francis himself has preached: To be a shepherd of the sheep, you must know them - and know that you smell like them - and they must know you even as you wear them as the very names on your robes of office. Fear not: as always, God is in charge here. Jesus made a promise and has never broken it. We are not orphans. And we are not to treat one another as our betters or our inferiors. We are to serve one another in Love, thus loving God completely and loving one another as we are to love ourselves. Unloveable as we may seem to be (and frequently are), the God who is love, has created each of us out of love in his own image. God loves us. Please be patient. Love one another ... and love Pope Francis - in all humility, obedience, and good humor. Fr. Ron Meyer, OMI

  74. Fr Ron Meyer, yours is the best post here. God bless you for it, and may all of us take your words to heart. Faith Hope and Charity are the theological virtues that we must all cultivate, applying these personally to the present state of the Church. We must also pledge these virtues to Pope Francis who has been entrusted to us.


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