A very beautiful photograph. I'm assuming that is the Virgin of czestochowa over the veiled crucifix on the ad orientem altar. Our Lady of Fatima: “Pray a Great Deal for the Holy Father...”
This is in Castle Gandolfo, where the 'Pope Emeritus' is staying. So, while it is nice to see, I don't think it has any relation to Pope Francis. Pope Francis is just visiting Benedict. Benedict's preferences no longer influence those running the Church.
If God could let me change places with one man in the world right now, it would be Mons. Georg Ganswein....I hope that the edifice of teaching that Pope Benedict XVI left us is properly respected and implemented.
The Ordinary Pope and the Extraodinary Pope together at last. If someone had shown me this photo just six ago (Feb. 23) I would have thought it impossible and have exclaimed. what strange fringe universe is this? Now we see how fast the Revolution progresses. Even within weeks the unthinkable becomes reality. What will the next two months, six months or year hold?
Ok, so we don't have our favorite, Francis is the Bishop of Rome, our Pope. God will not allow him to teach the universal Church error in Faith or morals. Trust in Providence. Read Lagrange's book on Providence. Pray, offer it up, devout Catholics, yes, even NO Catholics, are on the winning team.
The most striking visual thing in the video-cast is the evident frailty of the Emeritus Pope Benedict. Also of course the obvious generosity and humility of both men kneeling together in the chapel.
I was really hoping that there wouldn't be any images of this event taken (that's no criticism of RC for publishing them - for they would have been difficult to escape now that they have been pushed into the public domain; and I'm glad I've seen them within the safe walls of RC). No, I just awoke this morning and thought "I really don't wish to see any photographs at all of this event." I'm sure they could actually have achieved that complete black-out. Sadly, the sight of these images is every bit as disturbing and utterly disorienting as I imagined they would be.
It's only as recently as February 10 that the world was normal. So much, so soon.
Oh how I miss Benedict! All the same, viva il Papa Francesco! (I like the little mix-up when they're entering the chapel to pray and BXVI apparently thought the Holy Father would sit alone to pray when Francis naturally and understandably wanted to kneel and pray alongside BXVI.)
Yes, NC, we do have two popes. Pope Benedict is so fragile and truly is the humble one--how many times do you hear him say "Grazie"? Tears for him and tears for our Church. We must pray without ceasing for Pope Francis.
FTA: "FTA: "In this work, the role of religion is fundamental," said the pope. "It is not possible to build bridges between people while forgetting God. But the converse is also true: it is not possible to establish true links with God, while ignoring other people. Hence it is important to intensify dialogue among the various religions, and I am thinking particularly of dialogue with Islam.""
My questions:
What sort of dialogue? To what end?
On whose terms would such a "dialogue" take place?
To which God is Francis referring? The god of the Koran, or the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? "Allah" is not the God of the Bible, nor is he even remotely similar.
IMO, it is not possible to establish a "true link" with God, at least the God of the Bible, in a dialogue with Islam. Any dialogue with Muslims should be for the expressed purpose of sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If I may borrow another spiffy phrase from "I am not Spartacus," Totalitarian Humility may no longer view that "gravitational pull" as necessary or useful.
It's a bit disconcerting to find myself thinking that genuflections after both consecrations would now be a huge step forward.
Poor Benedict is so thin. I'm amazed and concerned about how much he's aged even in the just-under-a-month since his resignation took effect. His mind may be as sharp as ever, but he clearly wasn't kidding when he said his body wasn't up to it anymore =-(
It'll be interesting to see if this meeting affects His Holiness' Papacy at all (though of course HOW it would have done so would be nearly-impossible to discern since HH was literally installed last week...)
I admit that I became emotional watching the video shoing the two popes praying together, a surreal sight. Who would have imagined such an event 2 months ago? Benedict indeed looks very old and frail, a true holy grandfather. As we are beginning Holy Week, the liturgical highlight of the year, I would like to take the opportunity and express my gratitude for this blog site. NC, your contribution is enormous.I imagine that such high level of dedication must take a lot time and also requires money. How can one contritube financially to support this site? Also, prayers for your mother's health. I truly wish for a full recovery.
Watching this I can only wonder what Our Lord must be thinking? We have a pope now (Bergoglio) who wants more "dialogue" with false religions like Islam, congratulates and gives credence to a man and his title in Canterbury, believes (at least when he was Archbishop in Argentina) in some form of the heretical dual covenant theory, who wants more protestant novelties in the Novus Ordo, and was rabidly anti-TLM, at least when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires. I know Benedict and JPII believed in all of these things also but this Bergoglio I think is going to make JPII and Benedict look traditional. Lord help us!
I understand that it`s important that Pope Francis visits Pope Benedict. But I think it was of very poor taste to have taken pictures of them both together. Weird and scary.
I'd leave it up to Rorate to publish this if they wish but I need to repair the scandal I've caused.
I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father and Popes previous, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council. [b]I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council. I am critical of the liturgical changes that followed Vatican II, which I argue are a result of misreadings. I particularly retract my statements against the motu proprio 'Summorum Pontificum' and the Indult. I repudiate Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX, so I am no longer welcome here. God have mercy upon my poor soul.[/b]
Sigh! More symbolic actions aimed at whittling down the traditional understanding of the papacy.
Refusing the special chair provided — the one a pope would ordinarily be offered and then sit in as a sign of the dignity of his office. Message: All jus' bros here!
Then presenting an image of Our Lady of —— Humility!
Benedict looks to be in really very bad shape — a dramatic decline in just a few weeks. It should be clear to everyone from this footage that his physical condition was indeed the real reason for his renunciation.
It's kind of funny. One Pope would rather be in black but has to be in white but the other one wants to be in white although might be better off in black. Humility seems more confusing than it used to be.
If Pope Benedict XVI is so frail and in decline (and possibly not going to be here for long), I wonder why he did not just stay in office and pass away in office like all previous Popes save for a few?
By his decline, it would not have been long. Also, it is more than likely since he was the runner-uo in the conclave of 2005, that Pope Bergoglio would have been elected Pope anyway ater Benedict XVI had died.
Either way, we probably still would have gotten Bergoglio as Pope.
Remember how frail John Paul II was in his last years. We had many years where the See of Rome was in many ways vacant.
The Pope Emeritus might have weeks left, he might have years. Looking at that video I could really see how he felt that he didn't have the strength any longer.
I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father and Popes previous, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council - although, like Michael Davies, I am highly critical of the changes that result, not merely from misreadings but also, I am certain, from errors within the fallible texts of Vatican II.
I retract my criticism of Abp. Lefebvre, who, as he fought for Tradition, I certainly am grateful to, altohugh I dispute the position of the SSPX.
"Benedict Carter said... It's all more than bizarre I think.”
No, not at all, I think not, you are way off beam. And some others too. Who thought he was “kidding” ? An amazing thought.
For me, it is deeply moving indeed. Unique. A privilege to be a witness of this exceptional encounter between two holy men. Papa Ratzi is clearly not at all in good health and his demission was a courageous decision. May God sustain him. I think it’s so wrong to speculate on his health in public, we see what we see, why go viral about it ? Is it entirely necessary ? What happened to Catholic respect for our priests ? Shame on you who do this, all of you. To speculate on his death is disgusting and far from Catholic.
I think it is just not Catholic to condemn Papa Bergoglio who has only just ascended to the papacy. He needs time. Let’s give him time before we sharpen our swords. We must not pounce on every post which leans towards criticism.
Look, the physical state of Papa Ratzi is evident and so is the deep respect and humility of each, may I say “Pope”, is abundantly clear. They do not take the “personal” view, but are guided by the office they bear/bore. Humility has never been so vivid. What more do you people desire who criticise so readily?
Probably, at times, I am told I can be one of the most assiduous of critics of (some) popes, but, who the heck am I ?
I really hope your current mood-swing is correct. I get moments when I feel like that...I don't know. We'll all have to wait and see. It's probably a good idea to stop panicking and see what happens with time. Oh, how I hope it will all work out alright.
Two reactions: (1) An almost physical ache at seeing the Pope Emeritus, "Benedict the Beloved", and realising how much I missed him. But also … (2) A feeling, almost for the first time, that it may all be working out for the best. The rapport, affection and mutual respect between the two men was unmistakeable – they consider themselves to be in all essentials on the same side, even if with very different styles and approaches. I'm sure neither of them imagines that Francis is going to be undoing Benedict's legacy.
Certainly the 'Pope Emeritus' looks very weak but he has always been extremely hard on himself during lent. I'm sure fasting is accounting for a lot of his gaunt appearance. I found this video with its silence very soul-stirring. Come, Lord Jesus!
I was sure I seen that icon somewhere before. I hope the Russians don't mind. I'm sure Benedict wouldn't mind at all. It is so very beautiful and he is so very humble.
comeonCould everyone write a short message, greeting that is, on a self chosen schedule? How could we leave a living Emeritus Pope uncherished?...When Benedict Carter says he feels everything may be alright, then I will say, I fixitdo too.
I wonder if because Benedict XVI is still alive, Pope Francis may not feel in himself he is Pope, hence not taking the seat provided, no Papal ring, and he didn't give a Papal blessing to the people after the lunch with Benedict XVI either, which seems had been expected. At least I felt Pope Francis was genuinely warm in his greeting to Beneduct XVI. Praying that Pope Francis will receive the grace to properly realise the dignity of his office and carry it out faithfully. The holiness, dignity and humbleness of Benedict was, again, obvious to all. Deo gratias for the pontificate of Beneduct XVI. All Catholics who adhere faithfully to the traditions of the Church must be united to fight the good fight if we are to completely restore the Faith of our fathers.
"Jan said... I wonder if because Benedict XVI is still alive, Pope Francis may not feel in himself he is Pope, hence not taking the seat provided, no Papal ring, and he didn't give a Papal blessing to the people after the lunch with Benedict XVI either, which seems had been expected. At least I felt Pope Francis was genuinely warm in his greeting to Beneduct XVI. Praying that Pope Francis will receive the grace to properly realise the dignity of his office and carry it out faithfully. The holiness, dignity and humbleness of Benedict was, again, obvious to all. Deo gratias for the pontificate of Beneduct XVI. All Catholics who adhere faithfully to the traditions of the Church must be united to fight the good fight if we are to completely restore the Faith of our fathers."
I don't think that Pope Francis will recognize the dignity of his office and carry it out. In barely two weeks, he has done many shocking (and personally I think nauseating), expressions of "over the top" humility that will preclude him ever acting like Pope.
It's fine to be humble (who would want a pompous Pope?...there were many of them in the Renaissance period and they wrecked the Church and set the stage for the disaster of the Protestant Reformation). But a little dignity...Papal dignity ( including wearing the Papal vestments and robes when required, the mozzetta, stole, fanon, red shoes etc.) is fairly well expected even by Catholics who are not necessarilly traditionalists. Paul VI for all his faults always wore the mozzettas and stoles. John Paul II did less so, but still wore them. Benedict XVI did, and brought back many other vestments that had fallen into disuse....to the applause of millions in the Church. Pope Francis is possibly a radical liberal. We have to remember that he is also a Jesuit. Put the two together, and that does not spell someone who would want to follow Papal tradition.
I am hoping and praying for the best from him, but after seeing so many examples in two weeks of really questionable actions....I don;t expect much that is good. At least with regards to Papal decorum, vestments, and most importantly, the Liturgy. Hopefully I am wrong, but I cringe at the thought of Pope Francis' Holy Week and Easter liturgies.
Francis is either the Pope or he is not, and those who imply that he is not, or that there is any defect in his Roman bishopric have to decide if they are Catholic or not.
The church proclaims in its canon law that Popes can cede the office, and it also proclaims that Cardinal electors, through the grace of God, choose the new Pope in a conclave. You either accept this or you don't - but not accepting it may say more than you want it to as to whether you are a Catholic or not.
I was overcome by a melancholy feeling for Pope Benedict as I watched the news video. He is clearly very frail. But--and here was the remarkable thing-- he reacted with surprising swiftness when Pope Francis walked past the papal prie-dieu. Benedict is still very attentive to ceremony, to hierarchy, to tradition. And I applaud Francis for being so gracious with Benedict.
I hope God keeps Papa Ratzi with us for a while. As long as he is still among the faithful, I feel safe. He embodies almost a century's worth of knowledge, stretching back before Vatican II. He is one of the last links with the Church's past. And in many respects, he is the most cultured man in all of Europe.
Someone on this thread called him Benedict the Beloved, and I hope usage of that title will gain in popularity. His pontificate deserves to remembered more than just for the leaving of it. He led a rich life devoted to God.
Thanks be to God Pope Benedict is still with us. His presence will hopefully moderate Pope Francis, toning down some of his odd tendencies and correcting the abuses he allowed in Beunos Aires. 1/ Persecuting those who wanted the Traditional Missal and Mass. Those who wanted continuity and orgainic deveopment. 2/ frncis did nothing to stop coohabiting (with male and females) clergy in Beunos Ares. 3/ He allowed a sex change man and his male lover who entered a civil marraige to have achild baptised. They also took communion and it was in Francis' cathedral.
How will Francis deal with the papal butler gay blackmail case? Do nothing as he did in Argentina?
It will involve Francis having to turn on the more liberal cardinals who voted him in! My biggest fear is the sort of men Francis will promote to bishop and as cardianls that could cause problems in the next conclave and in the world wide Church.
Some were hoping that such an event would not be captured on video or photographed. But the powers that be want this on film in order to get us used to seeing the papacy as a temporary position...a CEO with a retirement age. Pope Francis will complete the change from monarchy to aristocracy thus dismantling the Petrine Office.
It is said that good Pope Benedict will be writing, receiving visitors, and playing the piano in his retirement. It reminds me of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
Francis seems like a good and holy man but not one that has a full grasp of his office. I get the uneasy feeling that he sees himself as just another bishop among thousands. There is something very peculiar about the man but I cannot put my finger on it. My wife sees him on TV and says he is strange in some way but she cannot verbalize it, other than he smiles very little. She keeps saying she cannot warm up to him but doesn't know why. I think we both feel the same way from his first appearance on the loggia. My wife, who is Italian, keeps saying he looks "nonjust," not right.
Those of us with a strong distaste for facts and for opinions supported by techne hope you will cease hindering the free flow of fantasy hereabouts. Doctrine, theology, canon law, and the consequences of high churchmen's actions are topics that are ever so much more fun when everyone gets to roll his own!
Petrus, I'd definitely agree with you on the baptism of the child.
Whether or not this particular baptism should have been celebrated with public solemnities, with the, ahem, "couple" receiving communion, is a different issue entirely. I think most devout Catholics would consider that a scandal of the first order.
Certainly , one thing we should refrain from when speaking of Pope Francis are descriptions such "he doesn't look right". Subjectiveness such as that is irrelevant Pray for him
Well, I just don't see true humility in the man. I really find him rather arrogant. His actions in refusing the normal papal symbols, like the mozetta, gold pectoral cross, throne, etc. do not strike me as humble, but as an arrogant thumbing his nose in the face of holy tradition and his predecessor.
As it stands in human affairs, a respect for each and everyone of us must be earned. It can not be bestowed or imposed and it's even more so in case of the person of pope. The way we act is the way others percieve us.
Isaacson and Ora et Labora, Agree absolutely! My first thought when I saw the photos of the Palm Sunday procession was: “Who is this Anglican bishop?” Then I realized my mistake, and thought how Papal Pope Benedict XVI looked last year during the same ceremonies, wearing a beautiful mitre that he also wore for his installation, I think ( http://www.benediktxvi.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=917&Itemid=75 ). Bp. Francis of Rome appears consistently “episcopal” while some Italian bishops look more “papal” (here is what Patriarch Moraglia of Venice looked like last year: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mAN1apL5AeY/T3jgdu4gAsI/AAAAAAAABY4/j3JnjCyTHg0/s1600/moraglia+palme+2.jpg , and Card. Scola of Milan here: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/03/24/foto/domenica_delle_palme_scola_cita_francesco_e_benedetto_xvi-55258862/1/ ). Better yet, here is Card. Bagnasco of Genoa from yesterday: http://telenord.it/2013/03/24/domenica-delle-palme-da-bagnasco-messaggio-di-pace/ – I guess he didn’t get that Mahony tweet! Man, he is so behind the program…
Benedict is now our beloved GranPapa, and I respect him for knowing when it was time for his sons to elect a new Papa. If Benedict XVI honestly believed future work could not proceed because of the weakness due to age (and possibly disease), and also believed his important prior work would not be undone, how can God punish him because his strength cannot carry him forward?
76 comments:
Note the position of the altar!
Surreal...
And the altar cross is veiled :)
A very beautiful photograph. I'm assuming that is the Virgin of czestochowa over the veiled crucifix on the ad orientem altar. Our Lady of Fatima: “Pray a Great Deal for the Holy Father...”
God help us!
Pope Benedict should not have resigned.
We have a catastrophy right now, and I'm not exagerating. The worse part is...it's just beginning.
Mary Help of Christians pray for us!!!
This is in Castle Gandolfo, where the 'Pope Emeritus' is staying. So, while it is nice to see, I don't think it has any relation to Pope Francis. Pope Francis is just visiting Benedict. Benedict's preferences no longer influence those running the Church.
It's all more than bizarre I think.
If God could let me change places with one man in the world right now, it would be Mons. Georg Ganswein....I hope that the edifice of teaching that Pope Benedict XVI left us is properly respected and implemented.
Eerie!
The Ordinary Pope and the Extraodinary Pope together at last. If someone had shown me this photo just six ago (Feb. 23) I would have thought it impossible and have exclaimed. what strange fringe universe is this? Now we see how fast the Revolution progresses. Even within weeks the unthinkable becomes reality. What will the next two months, six months or year hold?
Two months ago this image would have been seen as a practical joke. It is surreal. TS
Ok, so we don't have our favorite, Francis is the Bishop of Rome, our Pope. God will not allow him to teach the universal Church error in Faith or morals. Trust in Providence. Read Lagrange's book on Providence. Pray, offer it up, devout Catholics, yes, even NO Catholics, are on the winning team.
I've just watched the video. How frail Benedict is! Not long for this world, methinks. God bless him.
All of a sudden I feel as if everything might just turn out alright. Talk about mood swings!
The most striking visual thing in the video-cast is the evident frailty of the Emeritus Pope Benedict. Also of course the obvious generosity and humility of both men kneeling together in the chapel.
My prayers go out to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. He looks a lot more frail than when he resigned. May God Bless him.
I was really hoping that there wouldn't be any images of this event taken (that's no criticism of RC for publishing them - for they would have been difficult to escape now that they have been pushed into the public domain; and I'm glad I've seen them within the safe walls of RC). No, I just awoke this morning and thought "I really don't wish to see any photographs at all of this event." I'm sure they could actually have achieved that complete black-out. Sadly, the sight of these images is every bit as disturbing and utterly disorienting as I imagined they would be.
It's only as recently as February 10 that the world was normal. So much, so soon.
Oh how I miss Benedict! All the same, viva il Papa Francesco! (I like the little mix-up when they're entering the chapel to pray and BXVI apparently thought the Holy Father would sit alone to pray when Francis naturally and understandably wanted to kneel and pray alongside BXVI.)
What a weird sight.
Anybody else think +Ganswein looks about twenty years older than he did a few short years ago?
Yes, NC, we do have two popes. Pope Benedict is so fragile and truly is the humble one--how many times do you hear him say "Grazie"? Tears for him and tears for our Church. We must pray without ceasing for Pope Francis.
Hopefully this photo shows the gravitational pull Benedict predicted from the ordinary to the extraoridinary.
So what do readers think of Francis' call for a "dialogue" with Islam:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-i-am-thinking-particularly-dialogue-islam
FTA: "FTA: "In this work, the role of religion is fundamental," said the pope. "It is not possible to build bridges between people while forgetting God. But the converse is also true: it is not possible to establish true links with God, while ignoring other people. Hence it is important to intensify dialogue among the various religions, and I am thinking particularly of dialogue with Islam.""
My questions:
What sort of dialogue? To what end?
On whose terms would such a "dialogue" take place?
To which God is Francis referring? The god of the Koran, or the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? "Allah" is not the God of the Bible, nor is he even remotely similar.
IMO, it is not possible to establish a "true link" with God, at least the God of the Bible, in a dialogue with Islam. Any dialogue with Muslims should be for the expressed purpose of sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Hoping the same, Adfero.
If I may borrow another spiffy phrase from "I am not Spartacus," Totalitarian Humility may no longer view that "gravitational pull" as necessary or useful.
It's a bit disconcerting to find myself thinking that genuflections after both consecrations would now be a huge step forward.
Yes, tears....
I nearly cried watching this
Poor Benedict is so thin. I'm amazed and concerned about how much he's aged even in the just-under-a-month since his resignation took effect. His mind may be as sharp as ever, but he clearly wasn't kidding when he said his body wasn't up to it anymore =-(
It'll be interesting to see if this meeting affects His Holiness' Papacy at all (though of course HOW it would have done so would be nearly-impossible to discern since HH was literally installed last week...)
I admit that I became emotional watching the video shoing the two popes praying together, a surreal sight. Who would have imagined such an event 2 months ago? Benedict indeed looks very old and frail, a true holy grandfather.
As we are beginning Holy Week, the liturgical highlight of the year, I would like to take the opportunity and express my gratitude for this blog site. NC, your contribution is enormous.I imagine that such high level of dedication must take a lot time and also requires money. How can one contritube financially to support this site?
Also, prayers for your mother's health. I truly wish for a full recovery.
Thank you for your kindness, RipK.
I like seeing these two Popes praying together before our Blessed Mother. May the Holy Ghost shed His Light upon them...
THE
CHALICE
The tree sheds nuts
For the squirrels
The mollusk shells
To reveal the pearls.
The mother sheds tears
At her baby’s birth
The sun sheds rays
To warm the earth.
The moon sheds light
And pulls the tide
The Sacraments grace
To help and guide.
The cow sheds milk
To strengthen the bone
And the Chalice sheds blood
The mystery…we own!
Kinda reminds me of two white pillars.. almost prophetic!
That was nice, touching, but still very peculiar to see two Papal entities side by side like that.
Woody said, "Note the position of the altar!"
It's always been that way. Still nice to see though.
Long-Skirts said:
"I like seeing these two Popes praying..."
Oh, my gosh! I'm turning into a Duo-Vacantist!!!!
Did anyone notice Papa F is not wearing the ring of the fisherman, but the ring he wore as a cardinal? I wonder what has happened to it!
Watching this I can only wonder what Our Lord must be thinking? We have a pope now (Bergoglio) who wants more "dialogue" with false religions like Islam, congratulates and gives credence to a man and his title in Canterbury, believes (at least when he was Archbishop in Argentina) in some form of the heretical dual covenant theory, who wants more protestant novelties in the Novus Ordo, and was rabidly anti-TLM, at least when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires. I know Benedict and JPII believed in all of these things also but this Bergoglio I think is going to make JPII and Benedict look traditional. Lord help us!
TWO POPES? No, just one. Benedict XVI is not the pope. Only Pope Francis is.
This is so beautiful. But hard to see as well. I suspect Pope-Emeritus will not be with us much longer.
I understand that it`s important that Pope Francis visits Pope Benedict. But I think it was of very poor taste to have taken pictures of them both together. Weird and scary.
Delighted to see the High Altar!
I'd leave it up to Rorate to publish this if they wish but I need to repair the scandal I've caused.
I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father and Popes previous, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council. [b]I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council. I am critical of the liturgical changes that followed Vatican II, which I argue are a result of misreadings. I particularly retract my statements against the motu proprio 'Summorum Pontificum' and the Indult. I repudiate Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX, so I am no longer welcome here. God have mercy upon my poor soul.[/b]
I wonder if it would be possible for Pope Benedict to join the SSPX and start appointing Cardinals to it's ranks?
We would, of course, have the second Western Schism but isn't that almost where it's at right now?
Sigh! More symbolic actions aimed at whittling down the traditional understanding of the papacy.
Refusing the special chair provided — the one a pope would ordinarily be offered and then sit in as a sign of the dignity of his office. Message: All jus' bros here!
Then presenting an image of Our Lady of —— Humility!
Benedict looks to be in really very bad shape — a dramatic decline in just a few weeks. It should be clear to everyone from this footage that his physical condition was indeed the real reason for his renunciation.
Patrick Gray said, ...I need to repair the scandal I've caused. "
Not sure of what "scandal" you've caused but you have asserted something else.
It's kind of funny. One Pope would rather be in black but has to be in white but the other one wants to be in white although might be better off in black. Humility seems more confusing than it used to be.
If Pope Benedict XVI is so frail and in decline (and possibly not going to be here for long), I wonder why he did not just stay in office and pass away in office like all previous Popes save for a few?
By his decline, it would not have been long. Also, it is more than likely since he was the runner-uo in the conclave of 2005, that Pope Bergoglio would have been elected Pope anyway ater Benedict XVI had died.
Either way, we probably still would have gotten Bergoglio as Pope.
@Benedict Carter
My wife and I said the same thing when we saw the Emeritus Pope.
He doesn't look long for this world and he will remain in our prayers.
@GQ Rep
Remember how frail John Paul II was in his last years. We had many years where the See of Rome was in many ways vacant.
The Pope Emeritus might have weeks left, he might have years. Looking at that video I could really see how he felt that he didn't have the strength any longer.
Thanks for posting, RC! Good to see them in contact and praying together :)
Poor Pope-emeritus Benedict XVI looks very fragile, and so little voice. May God bless them both!
A holy Holy Week to you all!
Ora et labora
The catastrophe was from 1965-1969 - we are now living with its consequences.
Dear me, I made a fudge of that - it should run:
I, as solemnly and as formally as I can, reject and repudiate all of the statements and fulminations I have made against the Holy Father and Popes previous, the New Mass and the Second Vatican Council. In the first case, I beg for forgiveness, in the second, I agree with Mr. Michael Treharne Davies that ''more than sufficient doc umentation has been provided, to prove that there is no aspect of catholic Eucharistic teaching that is not given explicit liturgical expression in the 1970 Missal. Thus, even though such liturgical expression is far less frequent than that in the 1962 Missal, it is nonetheless present...As regards sufficiency, it is hard to see how any bishop, priest or layman has the right to state, for example, that the sacrificial nature of the Mass must be affirmed on a specific number of occasions in any Missal or otherwise the rite of Mass that it contains becomes evil. The approval of the Pope must, surely, be the deciding factor, even if he decided that one unambiguous affirmation would be sufficient to safeguard the catholicity of the rite..." Hence, the New Mass is most certainly not evil or sacriligeous. It is a Catholic Mass. I acknowledge the Second Vatican Council as a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council - although, like Michael Davies, I am highly critical of the changes that result, not merely from misreadings but also, I am certain, from errors within the fallible texts of Vatican II.
I retract my criticism of Abp. Lefebvre, who, as he fought for Tradition, I certainly am grateful to, altohugh I dispute the position of the SSPX.
"Benedict Carter said... It's all more than bizarre I think.”
No, not at all, I think not, you are way off beam. And some others too. Who thought he was “kidding” ? An amazing thought.
For me, it is deeply moving indeed. Unique. A privilege to be a witness of this exceptional encounter between two holy men. Papa Ratzi is clearly not at all in good health and his demission was a courageous decision. May God sustain him. I think it’s so wrong to speculate on his health in public, we see what we see, why go viral about it ? Is it entirely necessary ? What happened to Catholic respect for our priests ? Shame on you who do this, all of you. To speculate on his death is disgusting and far from Catholic.
I think it is just not Catholic to condemn Papa Bergoglio who has only just ascended to the papacy. He needs time. Let’s give him time before we sharpen our swords. We must not pounce on every post which leans towards criticism.
Look, the physical state of Papa Ratzi is evident and so is the deep respect and humility of each, may I say “Pope”, is abundantly clear. They do not take the “personal” view, but are guided by the office they bear/bore. Humility has never been so vivid. What more do you people desire who criticise so readily?
Probably, at times, I am told I can be one of the most assiduous of critics of (some) popes, but, who the heck am I ?
Remember Our Lord’s words about judgment.
And pray for our Pope. Please.
@Benedict Carter
I really hope your current mood-swing is correct. I get moments when I feel like that...I don't know. We'll all have to wait and see. It's probably a good idea to stop panicking and see what happens with time. Oh, how I hope it will all work out alright.
Two reactions:
(1) An almost physical ache at seeing the Pope Emeritus, "Benedict the Beloved", and realising how much I missed him. But also …
(2) A feeling, almost for the first time, that it may all be working out for the best. The rapport, affection and mutual respect between the two men was unmistakeable – they consider themselves to be in all essentials on the same side, even if with very different styles and approaches. I'm sure neither of them imagines that Francis is going to be undoing Benedict's legacy.
Certainly the 'Pope Emeritus' looks very weak but he has always been extremely hard on himself during lent. I'm sure fasting is accounting for a lot of his gaunt appearance. I found this video with its silence very soul-stirring. Come, Lord Jesus!
Long-Skirts said:
"I like seeing these two Popes praying..."
Oh, my gosh! I'm turning into a Duo-Vacantist!!!!"
What the heck?! I didn't mean that! I meant Two Popes in the Sede...sometimes I speak twice before I think!!!
I was sure I seen that icon somewhere before. I hope the Russians don't mind. I'm sure Benedict wouldn't mind at all. It is so very beautiful and he is so very humble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVqN4pZTGXg
comeonCould everyone write a short message, greeting that is, on a self chosen schedule? How could we leave a living Emeritus Pope uncherished?...When Benedict Carter says he feels everything may be alright, then I will say, I fixitdo too.
I wonder if because Benedict XVI is still alive, Pope Francis may not feel in himself he is Pope, hence not taking the seat provided, no Papal ring, and he didn't give a Papal blessing to the people after the lunch with Benedict XVI either, which seems had been expected. At least I felt Pope Francis was genuinely warm in his greeting to Beneduct XVI. Praying that Pope Francis will receive the grace to properly realise the dignity of his office and carry it out faithfully. The holiness, dignity and humbleness of Benedict was, again, obvious to all. Deo gratias for the pontificate of Beneduct XVI. All Catholics who adhere faithfully to the traditions of the Church must be united to fight the good fight if we are to completely restore the Faith of our fathers.
"Jan said...
I wonder if because Benedict XVI is still alive, Pope Francis may not feel in himself he is Pope, hence not taking the seat provided, no Papal ring, and he didn't give a Papal blessing to the people after the lunch with Benedict XVI either, which seems had been expected. At least I felt Pope Francis was genuinely warm in his greeting to Beneduct XVI. Praying that Pope Francis will receive the grace to properly realise the dignity of his office and carry it out faithfully. The holiness, dignity and humbleness of Benedict was, again, obvious to all. Deo gratias for the pontificate of Beneduct XVI. All Catholics who adhere faithfully to the traditions of the Church must be united to fight the good fight if we are to completely restore the Faith of our fathers."
I don't think that Pope Francis will recognize the dignity of his office and carry it out. In barely two weeks, he has done many shocking (and personally I think nauseating), expressions of "over the top" humility that will preclude him ever acting like Pope.
It's fine to be humble (who would want a pompous Pope?...there were many of them in the Renaissance period and they wrecked the Church and set the stage for the disaster of the Protestant Reformation).
But a little dignity...Papal dignity ( including wearing the Papal vestments and robes when required, the mozzetta, stole, fanon, red shoes etc.) is fairly well expected even by Catholics who are not necessarilly traditionalists. Paul VI for all his faults always wore the mozzettas and stoles. John Paul II did less so, but still wore them. Benedict XVI did, and brought back many other vestments that had fallen into disuse....to the applause of millions in the Church.
Pope Francis is possibly a radical liberal. We have to remember that he is also a Jesuit. Put the two together, and that does not spell someone who would want to follow Papal tradition.
I am hoping and praying for the best from him, but after seeing so many examples in two weeks of really questionable actions....I don;t expect much that is good. At least with regards to Papal decorum, vestments, and most importantly, the Liturgy. Hopefully I am wrong, but I cringe at the thought of Pope Francis' Holy Week and Easter liturgies.
What surprises does he have up his sleeve?
Francis is either the Pope or he is not, and those who imply that he is not, or that there is any defect in his Roman bishopric have to decide if they are Catholic or not.
The church proclaims in its canon law that Popes can cede the office, and it also proclaims that Cardinal electors, through the grace of God, choose the new Pope in a conclave. You either accept this or you don't - but not accepting it may say more than you want it to as to whether you are a Catholic or not.
I was overcome by a melancholy feeling for Pope Benedict as I watched the news video. He is clearly very frail. But--and here was the remarkable thing-- he reacted with surprising swiftness when Pope Francis walked past the papal prie-dieu. Benedict is still very attentive to ceremony, to hierarchy, to tradition. And I applaud Francis for being so gracious with Benedict.
I hope God keeps Papa Ratzi with us for a while. As long as he is still among the faithful, I feel safe. He embodies almost a century's worth of knowledge, stretching back before Vatican II. He is one of the last links with the Church's past. And in many respects, he is the most cultured man in all of Europe.
Someone on this thread called him Benedict the Beloved, and I hope usage of that title will gain in popularity. His pontificate deserves to remembered more than just for the leaving of it. He led a rich life devoted to God.
Benedict has certainly aged since resigning.
It reminds me of Bilbo when he gave up the ring of power.
Thanks be to God Pope Benedict is still with us. His presence will hopefully moderate Pope Francis, toning down some of his odd tendencies and correcting the abuses he allowed in Beunos Aires.
1/ Persecuting those who wanted the Traditional Missal and Mass. Those who wanted continuity and orgainic deveopment.
2/ frncis did nothing to stop coohabiting (with male and females) clergy in Beunos Ares.
3/ He allowed a sex change man and his male lover who entered a civil marraige to have achild baptised. They also took communion and it was in Francis' cathedral.
How will Francis deal with the papal butler gay blackmail case? Do nothing as he did in Argentina?
It will involve Francis having to turn on the more liberal cardinals who voted him in!
My biggest fear is the sort of men Francis will promote to bishop and as cardianls that could cause problems in the next conclave and in the world wide Church.
@John Fisher
I have no problem with the baptism of ANY child. The sex change couple should have no bearing on the baptism of the child.
They certainly shouldn't have received communion but that is because of their own sin.
«God will not allow [the pope] to teach the universal Church error in Faith or morals.»
It would be better, more accurate, to say "God will not allow the pope to *definitively impose* on the universal Church error in Faith or Morals."
Fr. Paul McDonald
Some were hoping that such an event would not be captured on video or photographed. But the powers that be want this on film in order to get us used to seeing the papacy as a temporary position...a CEO with a retirement age. Pope Francis will complete the change from monarchy to aristocracy thus dismantling the Petrine Office.
It is said that good Pope Benedict will be writing, receiving visitors, and playing the piano in his retirement. It reminds me of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
Point well taken Fr. S. Collins, well taken!
Francis seems like a good and holy man but not one that has a full grasp of his office. I get the uneasy feeling that he sees himself as just another bishop among thousands. There is something very peculiar about the man but I cannot put my finger on it. My wife sees him on TV and says he is strange in some way but she cannot verbalize it, other than he smiles very little. She keeps saying she cannot warm up to him but doesn't know why. I think we both feel the same way from his first appearance on the loggia. My wife, who is Italian, keeps saying he looks "nonjust," not right.
Dear Fathers McDonald and Collins:
Those of us with a strong distaste for facts and for opinions supported by techne hope you will cease hindering the free flow of fantasy hereabouts. Doctrine, theology, canon law, and the consequences of high churchmen's actions are topics that are ever so much more fun when everyone gets to roll his own!
Petrus, I'd definitely agree with you on the baptism of the child.
Whether or not this particular baptism should have been celebrated with public solemnities, with the, ahem, "couple" receiving communion, is a different issue entirely. I think most devout Catholics would consider that a scandal of the first order.
How is it in poor taste? Are we hide Benedict away in a back room?
Certainly , one thing we should refrain from when speaking of Pope Francis are descriptions such "he doesn't look right". Subjectiveness such as that is irrelevant
Pray for him
Isaacson' you said:
"There is something very peculiar about the man but I cannot put my finger on it"
I feel exactly the same way as you and your wife, in fact I agree with everything you said.
Thanks for verbalizing it.
Well, I just don't see true humility in the man. I really find him rather arrogant. His actions in refusing the normal papal symbols, like the mozetta, gold pectoral cross, throne, etc. do not strike me as humble, but as an arrogant thumbing his nose in the face of holy tradition and his predecessor.
As it stands in human affairs, a respect for each and everyone of us must be earned. It can not be bestowed or imposed and it's even more so in case of the person of pope. The way we act is the way others percieve us.
Isaacson and Ora et Labora,
Agree absolutely!
My first thought when I saw the photos of the Palm Sunday procession was: “Who is this Anglican bishop?” Then I realized my mistake, and thought how Papal Pope Benedict XVI looked last year during the same ceremonies, wearing a beautiful mitre that he also wore for his installation, I think ( http://www.benediktxvi.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=917&Itemid=75 ).
Bp. Francis of Rome appears consistently “episcopal” while some Italian bishops look more “papal” (here is what Patriarch Moraglia of Venice looked like last year: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mAN1apL5AeY/T3jgdu4gAsI/AAAAAAAABY4/j3JnjCyTHg0/s1600/moraglia+palme+2.jpg ,
and Card. Scola of Milan here: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2013/03/24/foto/domenica_delle_palme_scola_cita_francesco_e_benedetto_xvi-55258862/1/ ).
Better yet, here is Card. Bagnasco of Genoa from yesterday: http://telenord.it/2013/03/24/domenica-delle-palme-da-bagnasco-messaggio-di-pace/ – I guess he didn’t get that Mahony tweet! Man, he is so behind the program…
Benedict is now our beloved GranPapa, and I respect him for knowing when it was time for his sons to elect a new Papa. If Benedict XVI honestly believed future work could not proceed because of the weakness due to age (and possibly disease), and also believed his important prior work would not be undone, how can God punish him because his strength cannot carry him forward?
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