Rorate Caeli

Pope Francis: "I will tell you something: today, before leaving the house..."

... In the Church therefore, there is a variety, a diversity of tasks and functions; there is not flat uniformity, but the wealth of gifts that the Holy Spirit distributes. However, there is communion and unity: all are in relation with each other and all combine to form a single vital body, deeply attached to Christ. Let us remember well: being part of the Church means being united to Christ and receiving from Him the divine life that makes us live as Christians, it means remaining united to the Pope and the bishops who are instruments of unity and communion, and it also means learning to overcome personal favoritisms and divisions, to understand each other better, to harmonise the variety and wealth of each one; in a word, to better love God and the people near us, in the family, in the parish, in the associations. In order to live, body and limbs must be united! Unity is superior to the conflicts, always! Conflicts, if they’re not resolved well, separate us from one another, separate us from God. Conflict can help us grow, but it can also divide us. Let’s not take the path of division, of fights among ourselves! All united, all united with our differences, but united, always: this is Jesus’ path. Unity is superior to conflicts. Unity is a grace that we must ask from the Lord, so that He may free us from the temptations of division, of struggles among us, of selfishness, of gossip. How much harm gossiping does, how much! Never gossip about the others, never! How much damage comes to the Church from divisions between Christians, from being biased, from petty self-interests!

The divisions among us, but also the divisions among the communities: Evangelical Christians, Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, why are we divided? We must seek to bring unity. I will tell you something: today, before leaving the House [Domus Sanctae Marthae], I spent forty minutes, more or less, half an hour, with an Evangelical pastor and we prayed together, and sought unity. But we must pray among ourselves as Catholics and also with the other Christians, pray that the Lord may give us unity, unity among us. But how can we achieve unity among Christians if we Catholics are unable to achieve it among ourselves? To have it in our family? How many families fight and are divided! Seek unity, the unity that makes the Church. Unity comes from Jesus Christ. He sends us the Holy Spirit to create unity.

June 19, 2013


  1. I hope this means he is going to lift the canonical Censure on the Society of St. Pius X

  2. The Church, by Her very nature is at unity with Her Head, Christ.

    There is no need for unity within the Church.

    Those who are not Catholic do not and will never have unity until they convert to Unity, which is Christ's Body: The Catholic Church.

  3. "and we prayed together, and sought unity."

    This is abominable. Why not instead instruct him (or was it her?) in the True Faith and exhort him to convert. The evangelical "pastor" is disunited because he lacks the Faith, and he similarly lacks communion with the One True Church.

    Someone should read Mortalium Annos to the Holy Father; although I am sure he is aware of it and simply does not care, for in his words, Pius XI would be a "fool."

  4. Well said Dan Hunter, but that is the pre V-II Unity. Now we have the Modern Unity, which is to continue to delete Catholic Traditions in order that the others will love us, since we are just like them.
    I believe a Previous Holy Father did an entire encyclical on false ecumenism and false unity. And what He warned of is what we have been doing the last fifty years. I wish I could remember which one.



  5. Is he suggesting that reactions to comments like he made about the rosary are somehow "gossip"? is the vox populi no longer allowed now? It's all very distressing and reminds me of Mary's words that "when all seems lost..."

  6. Unity in the Church will never be achieved unless the modernist heresy is crushed and V2 interpreted correctly. With some of the things His Holiness has said, I wonder if he has not been reading Rorate Caeli. What we say is not gossip, its called love and concern for the Bride of Christ. We traditional minded Catholics are not the ones separated from the Church. It is they who are modernist who have separated themselves from the Church and expect us to renounce our faith and adopt their errors. It is right for the Holy Father to call for unity. But he must remember that he as Cardinal Bergoglio was critical and openly opposed to Pope Benedict XVl. Ironic that one who was in disunity now calls for unity. I think he is beginning to find that being Pope is not an easy calling. His Holiness needs to practice the unity he calls for by reopening the doors he has closed on us traditional practicing Catholics. I say this with the respect due to the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis l.

  7. Just more prosaic, feel-good, "can't we all get along," Vatican II tripe. The differences between us (i.e. that some "christian" denominations believe it is ok to destroy unborn life and "ordain" sodomites) are not as important as holding hands in prayer together, so let's cut out all the divisive "gossip." These are the words of a mediocre RCIA instructor, not a pope who can reform a Church in crisis.

  8. With all due respect, Holy Father. Your point, please?

  9. The Universal Church is getting closer every day. Too bad it will not be the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Prayers for conversion all round!

  10. Speaking of unity... I really wish that there was greater unity among the different traditionalist groups (FSSP, SSPX etc), there even seems to be some degree of disagreement over various topics on traditionalist blogs... I believe if all traditionalist groups were truly united we could have a much more positive influence on the Church that we are making at present. We could be SO much stronger and have so much more influence on the Church if we all worked in unison for the restoration of all things in Christ.

    Viva Cristo Rey!

  11. I second Matthew's comment.

    Unity with heretics shall come only from conversion. By praying with them he is confirming them in their heresy - which is the sole source of disunity.

    The Roman Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, the vehicle of the Redemption Whose mission is to make men one, as the Father and Son are one, by uniting them in one Lord, one Faith, one baptism. He is frustrating this missio by even giving the impression that they are fine where they are, that their prayers are not vitiated by one of the greatest mortal sins - indeed, the greatest after apostasy. Haeresis.

    How a man, a Roman Pontiff, can come out of his house saying "unity, unity" after praying with, and not instructing or repudiating [whichever is necessary] a heretic; not defending the rights of God and His Church and pleading with him for the sake of his immortal soul with all tears and sincerity. No. They prayed. For half an hour more or less.

    I thought we were past all of this with Benedictus. I really did.

    - adulescens

  12. Anonymous11:19 PM

    About unity and all, I'd like to quote from an encyclical of a successor of S. Peter:

    "24. It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as "profane novelties of words," out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also because they give rise to great trouble and confusion among Catholics."

    Now, let me continue to quote the author some more.

    "Such is the nature of Catholicism that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole or as a whole rejected: "This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved" (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim "Christian is my name and Catholic my surname," only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself.

    25. Besides, the Church demands from those who have devoted themselves to furthering her interests, something very different from the dwelling upon profitless questions; she demands that they should devote the whole of their energy to preserve the faith intact and unsullied by any breath of error, and follow most closely him whom Christ has appointed to be the guardian and interpreter of the truth. There are to be found today, and in no small numbers, men, of whom the Apostle says that: 'having itching ears, they will not endure sound doctrine: but according to their own desires they will heap up to themselves teachers, and will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables' (II Tim. iv. 34). Infatuated and carried away by a lofty idea of the human intellect, by which God's good gift has certainly made incredible progress in the study of nature, confident in their own judgment, and contemptuous of the authority of the Church, they have reached such a degree of rashness as not to hesitate to measure by the standard of their own mind even the hidden things of God and all that God has revealed to men. Hence arose the monstrous errors of 'Modernism,' which Our Predecessor rightly declared to be 'the synthesis of all heresies,' and solemnly condemned. We hereby renew that condemnation in all its fulness, Venerable Brethren, and as the plague is not yet entirely stamped out, but lurks here and there in hidden places, We exhort all to be carefully here and there in hidden places, We exhort all to be carefully on their guard against any contagion of the evil, to which we may apply the words Job used in other circumstances: 'It is a fire that devoureth even to destruction, and rooteth up all things that spring' (Job xxxi. 12). Nor do We merely desire that Catholics should shrink from the errors of Modernism, but also from the tendencies or what is called the spirit of Modernism. Those who are infected by that spirit develop a keen dislike for all that savours of antiquity and become eager searchers after novelties in everything: in the way in which they carry out religious functions, in the ruling of Catholic institutions, and even in private exercises of piety. Therefore it is Our will that the law of our forefathers should still be held sacred: 'Let there be no innovation; keep to what has been handed down.' In matters of faith that must be inviolably adhered to as the law; it may however also serve as a guide even in matters subject to change, but even in such cases the rule would hold: 'Old things, but in a new way.'"

    The quoted text was, as you might know by now, written by Pope Benedict XVth in his (first) encyclical, called Ad beatissimi apostolorum. It's a good read.

  13. There are three principles of unity, not just the one always mentioned. The fact that he prayed for unity with a Protestant proves that he denies the at least one of these principles: unity in doctrine, and probably another: unity in the means of grace (the sacraments).

  14. As is well known, some years ago, in the largest Buenos Aires indoor arena, the Luna Park, then-Cardinal Bergoglio, in the presence of papal preacher, Fr Raniero Cantalamessa, asked for, and received, the blessing of several Protestant ministers, on his knees.

    We reported it at the time, and then mentioned it again when of the recent conclave. But some ridiculously tried to make it something else, even though the event is registered in image, audio, and video...

    He has no problem admitting these things, including his common prayer with a Protestant minister now. Not surprising, anyway, not for our readers.


  15. I don't understand how as a catholic, knowing you have the true faith, the holy eucharist, you wouldn't do all in your power to help people of other faith understand that. Nobody is talking about forcing to convert, but to none the less speak of these truths out of love for God and neighbor. Why let them live in error, while you enjoy the all that the faith has to offer?

  16. Evidently, the reason why there is no unity among the members of Christ's body is that there are certain contradictions that exist. The very nature of these contradictions are diabolical to begin with because they are doctrinal, ideological, and spiritual. In order for the Pope to have unity among Catholics would be to establish clear doctrinal teachings that can clear up any form of ideological and spiritual contradictions. This is at the heart of the SSPX's mission. This cannot be done through diplomatic means among non-Catholics. The idea that unity can be achieved by praying together with non-Catholics, Protestants, Jews, or Muslims cannot achieve unity. The doctrinal teaching and clarity is what sets apart the truth and revalelation of the diabolic spirit that divides those who are not in union with the truth!

  17. I'm amazed, perhaps scandalized, by the uncharitableness of many of these posts. We do not know the conversation between the Holy Father and the evangelical minister. All we know is that they prayed together. What a powerful moment that must have been for that minister to be in the presence of the Holy Father in prater -- what graces that minister received we do not know, but surely they were great. I should be so lucky, a sinner just as that minister is, to receive such graces.

  18. Inter-religious prayer is a very bad thing. It isn't uncharitable to point this out. Please read Mortalium Animos

  19. These remarks are reminiscent of Msgr. Robert Hugh Benson's 'Lord of the World'not ot mention Vladimir Soloviev's 'A Short Tale of the Antichrist'.
    The Catholic Pope and other Christian denominations unite...oh perhaps I might spoil the ending for some so I'll refrain.

  20. When I read a comment like "sought unity", it catches my attention. Is Catholocism the one, true church, or is it just one form of Christianity that's on par with the others? I certainly hope Francis isn't suggesting the latter. I'm suspect he's not, but it makes one wonder.

  21. Those who should speak out will be silent. -Our Lady of Good Success

  22. Yes, a wealth of gifts. Unfortunately, we keep getting "gifts" like that abomination we witnessed in the post below by "Catholic" priests in the presence of our Lord. I hope the minister or whoever it was at least heard some talk on the Truth of the Catholic Faith and converts to Catholicism before seeing a video like the one below. Maybe its time to finally accept the gift right on the doorstep labeled "SSPX." Then, once they are accepted, encourage Bishops of struggling dioceses (that should be easy) to have FSSP and SSPX priests take over their struggling parishes.

  23. Anonymous2:50 AM

    JM, a heretic 100 years ago is a heretic today. The Church doesn't change -- even if the politically correct messengers do.

  24. Should not any attempt to fathom the interior thought of the Holy Father take account of these lines: "Let us remember well: being part of the Church means being united to Christ and receiving from Him the divine life that makes us live as Christians, it means remaining united to the Pope and the bishops who are instruments of unity and communion"? It seems that unity is a mark of the Church, that the Church is a visible, hierarchical society, and that it is no other than the Holy Roman Church. I will not pretend to know the full significance of everything here, but, respectfully I submit, justice, or just intellectual integrity, requires accounting for this statement too.

  25. "I'm amazed, perhaps scandalized, by the uncharitableness of many of these posts. We do not know the conversation between the Holy Father and the evangelical minister. All we know is that they prayed together. What a powerful moment that must have been for that minister to be in the presence of the Holy Father in prater -- what graces that minister received we do not know, but surely they were great. I should be so lucky, a sinner just as that minister is, to receive such graces."

    Is this some kind of jest?

    Uncharitable to want a Protestant to know the Truth and enter His Church? You are scandalized? No. We are scandalized by popes and bishops praying and playing patty-cake with heretics. This single action of the Holy Father is uncharitable to the heresiarch (minister of whom?), the heretics who hear about it and to us Catholics. All in one blow.

    You should read the epistles of the apostles and see how "uncharitable" they are when it comes to heresy. They say the holy apostle John would not even enter a public bath because a heretic was inside. Do you know what the holy martyr Polycarp said when a heretic approached him? "Let's pray"? Cognosco primogenitum diaboli.

    And you should see what the other fathers have to say concerning heretics - those fathers whose works are in large measure in direct response to heresy.

    Honestly. Franciscus prays with a heretic and people gush about graces. If this is how lightly English-speaking Catholics have come to hold heresy to be. The Lord knows what it shall be to the Church in English-language countries. I honestly cannot wait to leave permanently. Cannot even find a Mass in this city I can conscionably assist at.

    Fessus sum ego.

    - adulescens


  26. These 40 minutes in prayer should probably also be spent with Bishop Fellay, in as public a manner. As someone already commented, Christ's Church is already unified. She is indefectible. I feel like none of this is even known anymore.

  27. The Pope is calling for unity in diversity, not a homogenized religion where everyone is exactly the same. Charity, tolerance, love... These are the hallmarks of the next age of Catholicism....God Bless Papa Francis!!

  28. “If heretics no longer horrify us today, as they once did our forefathers, is it certain that it is because there is more charity in our hearts? Or would it not too often be, perhaps, without our daring to say so, because the bone of contention, that is to say, the very substance of our faith, no longer interests us? Men of too familiar and too passive a faith, perhaps for us dogmas are no longer the Mystery on which we live, the Mystery which is to be accomplished in us. Consequently then, heresy no longer shocks us; at least, it no longer convulses us like something trying to tear the soul of our souls away from us.... And that is why we have no trouble in being kind to heretics, and no repugnance in rubbing shoulders with them. It is not always charity, alas, which has grown greater, or which has become more enlightened: it is often faith, the taste for the things of eternity, which has grown less.” - Henri de Lubac

    See, de Lubac does come in handy every so often!

  29. The spiritual revolt in the Church, as Card. Manning predicted, is well underway.

  30. Charles,

    Where is the lack of charity in these posts? People are surely still allowed to express what they think, are they not? And I see well thought-out comments, no nastiness - just concern - hard to read - because they are about our Holy Father.

    How well I understand your desire to defend the Holy Father, is right and dutiful for Catholics to do so, but the Popes after Vatican II seem to have changeed the traditional idea of the papacy with some of their words and deeds which have become a cause of great consternation (and sometimes real scandal)among Traditional Catholics (and not only).

    I finally had to face this as I felt really guilty about criticising the behaviour of the POPES. After all, who am I a nobody, to question PETER? But, if the Catholc Church is the One True Church founded by Our Lord on Peter, then all the rest of the "churches" are wrong and have strayed from the truth revealed (always there shining like the sun and source of sanctifying grace despite the sins of prelates and other churchmen through the ages)then Popes, Cardinals and all priests are duty bound to protect this truth with there very lives...not bend over for human respect. That's what a true faithful Catholic wants to see, I think - real leaders - who do not contradict the truth revealed by Our Lord. And you don't need 10 degrees in Theology to understand incoherence in these things.

    I don't like it one bit when The Popes say and do such things compromising the truth revealed and establisjhed by Our Lord HImself. It makes me feel very, very uneasy. But then this particular Holy Father has really no problems doing these things - as he did at an audience with journalists and media when he refrained from blessing them, because there were non-catholics present - and so he continues along those lines in many other ways too... this is coherent for him but in my view very incoherent for a Pope , The Vicar of Christ on earth, The Voice of Our Lord, the Supreme Pontiff. Very incoherent for the office. Makes me a little scared just thinking and writing about it.

    Pope Francis' every word is too public and many of his speeches are ambiguous and confusing and rambling to say the least and are not reassuring to traditional (and not only) Catholics. I have no idea why this is allowed to happen.

    It's terrible to say but I really sense that there is a process underway to undermine the PAPACY.
    But why?

    These are very unsettling times for a true Catholics to say the least. Trying to pretend the contrary or justify the unjustifiable is also troubling. However, the Pope has not spoken truly officially yet - so I shall continue to beleive that the Holy Spirit will protect him...and to that end prayers for him always...

  31. Is anybody here ready not only to pray, but to offer his/her life to God so that the Pope opens his heart to Tradition? To offer one's life does not mean to be ready to suffer death or a serious illness, but to offer with love just everything, every prayer, every joy or sorrow, every suffering, illness etc with love to God so that the Pope may open his heart? In the late Forties of the past century in Croatia the Servant of God Marica Stankovic started an action among young Catholic women and one hundred of them offered one year of their lives to God so that Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, who had been arrested by the Comunists, would not be condemned to the Death penalty. Is anybody ready to do this for the Pope?

  32. "Today the Pope sent another tweet from his @Pontifex Twitter account. It read: “Christians are ready to proclaim the Gospel because they can’t hide the joy that comes from knowing Christ.”
    [Vatican Insider]

  33. More insubstantial chatter from Francis.

  34. I feel like I'm back in my old college seminary days in the 70's.

  35. Those who claim certain posts are lacking in charity have to remind themselves that charity does not mean agreement. It does not mean toleration of error. It does not mean blind faith. Charity corrects error for the sake of Truth.

    Unity comes at a distant second to Truth. Without Truth, all attempts at unity is vain and futile, like the Tower of Babel.

    The Holy Father is maybe naive in thinking that certain bishops won't merely pay lip service for unity- the unity they seek is with SATAN.

    Either the Catholic Church is the True Church that Christ established, or it is not- it cannot be equal to the progeny of arch-heretics, nor is it the same religion believed by homosexual clerics who revel in their debauchery and have no interest in promoting what has been always taught for 2,000 years.

    Jesus Christ may have prayed for the unity of His people, but He declared that He as come to bring the sword, for indeed, the Truth divides; Jesus Christ, who proclaimed Himself the Way, the Truth, and the Life, brought a sword that will divide Himself and those united with Him, from falsehoods.

    Would you have imagined Our Lord getting a blessing from Pilate or the Pharisees?

    I am a great sinner, and I do not need to pretend that I am this enlightened and humble individual to know what is right and wrong and to support and do what is right, though I may fail from time to time. I do not need to be some perpetually smiling person who talks ceaselessly about "The Poor" as if that is all there is to Christianity- being social workers.

    There are divisions, and those divisions will continue unless those wicked bishops who support homosexuality and abortion (in Washington D.C. alone, there are 10)and clergy who throughout seminaries promote a homosexual culture, are all excommunicated and removed from their places.

    True courage and humility imitates the courage and humility of Jesus Christ who boldly proclaimed Himself as the Truth even if it drives away people; He never told people what they want to hear, but what they needed to hear- then and even now, people turn away, from when Jesus Christ said that we must eat His Body and drink His Blood, and to a firm proclamation of faithful orthodox bishops who say "NO." to giving homosexuals communion. Bishops who say "NO." to liturgical abuse, including the washing of the feet of women in the Mandatum. Bishops who say "NO." in compromise against homosexual pseudogamy and laws allowing abortion.

    Those men are not media darlings, and they are hated to a great degree, but if they are willing to die for what they believe, then Jesus Christ love them because of their righteousness, and the only opinion that matters in the end is Jesus Christ's.

  36. I don't think that many of the comments here are made in a Christian spirit.

    I converted to Catholicism from Reformed Protestant which my family of origin has brought me up in (we have Huguenot ancestors). The Reformed Church has a high degree of learning and is also very anti Catholic.

    The fruits of the Spirit are love, kindness, etc.

    Let people judge for themselves whether the fruits of the spirit are found in Catholic or Protestant faith. I believe that many can make the discernment themselves.

    Then the converts may feel even greater repentence and joy on feeling, for the first time, truly convicted and converted as a Christian.

  37. This unity to me is like asking my children to stand in a ring filled with wolves, Oh in sheep's clothing of course.

  38. Lots of overreaction here. You think this is the first time a pope has prayed with a heretic? Have you missed out on the last 40+ years? It wasn't in public; merely mentioned in public.

    More importantly, as Charles pointed out, we do not know what the Holy Father said to this pastor. Everything he has said thus far in his pontificate indicates he understands and appreciates the importance of all Christians being united to the Catholic Church.

    Look, I am certainly not this Pope's biggest fan, but all this piling on is a bit gratuitous, not to mention childish. I'm quite sure there will, in the future, be plenty of substance to get your knickers in a twist about...

  39. I must say I am somewhat surprised at the reaction strictly to the Pope's words posted here. Let us wait for the minister to leak his account of the entire meeting..., otherwise we have precious little information.


  40. There Is only One Truth of Love, thus there Is only One Spirit of Perfect Love Between The Father and The Son in The Communion of Perfect Love, that Is The Holy Trinity.

  41. I suppose what strikes me as hypocritical in the pope's remarks is simply the fact that while he urges us all to be charitable towards all Christian denominations, we know that he will not take one step or make one remark about the need to remain open, charitable, and accommodating towards the "Pelagians" who seek the traditional Latin Mass. Bergoglio certainly didn't.

  42. "Well said Dan Hunter, but that is the pre V-II Unity"

    Thank you Capt. Morgan, but the Church has always and everywhere infallibly stated, in Her Magisterium, that one can not be saved apart from the Catholic Church, and that truth applies know until the end of time, whether Churchmen believe it or not.

    It is uncharitable and false to say otherwise.

  43. I looked up "heretic." Technically it applies. However, it also had listed as a synonym "recreant." There lies the rhetorical pejorative, IMHO. Protestants err, but they err in could faith. Same reason it is no longer helpful, even if true, to label Mormonism a cult. The word now has Jim Jones-like associations, and "heretic" has associations of being burned at the stake thanks to the Church's happy past.

  44. Anonymous1:45 PM

    JM, Protestants are heretics, but there are three levels of heretic.

    Look up those three and you'll see where they fall.

  45. Depending on how we define "heretic," a heretic 100 years ago may not be a heretic today. If we use St. Augustine's definition in letter 43, then apply that with the principle enunciated by Cardinal Manning in the following portion from his essay "The Working of the Holy Ghost in the Church of England," then they would not rightly be called heretics. After explaining the reasons the various classes of the English were not to guilty of the sins of separation, he concludes:

    "They made no perverse act of the will in remaining where they were born. Every successive generation was still less culpable, in proportion as they were born into a greater privation, and under the dominion of a tradition of error already grown strong. For three centuries they have been born further and further out of the truth, and their culpability is perpetually diminishing; and as they were passively borne onward in the course of the English separation, the moral responsibility for the past is proportionately less."

  46. Just to add a couple more points. The unity of the Church that is permanent is its indefectibility and uniqueness forever. However, a unity in charity among the Church's members can most certainly be lacking and will lack as long as sin exists. Fostering this unity is necessary to convince those outside that the Church is in fact the Church of Christ(cf. John 13:35)--the gossip and infighting the Pope mentions go against this.

    Unity amongst the Baptized can of course also be lacking, and this is also a problem we should work to remendy.

    Private prayer with separated baptized persons should not be a scandal to even traditionalists. The cooperation in prayer when seeking true unity was permitted well before Vatican II, such as the Suplician Confraternity of Compassion approved by Leo XIII. If one prays to the Lord for unity, He will no doubt give grace for that true unity (cf. Luke 11:11-12).

    Mortalium Animos dealt with public membership in associations with principles and goals antithetical to Catholicism (the pan-Christian movements who sought a unity based on the lowest common demoniator, not in the whole deposit of faith and hierarchical communion).

    The Catholic Enyclopedia article on the Reunion of Christendom, a good benchmark for Catholic positions at the turn of the 20th century, has more details on what was permissable at that time.

  47. Thanks for this post! Very great information to have and to see what Pope Francis is saying and proclaiming.
    I am all for UNITY but I am also for the complete TRUTH which I feel I have been ignorant to and blind to most of my life.
    I know and believe that the HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH is the Church that Jesus Christ instituted ...and HE gave the keys to that Church to Peter (our first Pope) and everyone needs to turn and embrace THE CHURCH ( Catholic Church) outside of which there is NO SALVATION , period ! I pray for Pope Francis and I pray his prayer with the other mininster was one where he will led back to The Catholic Church ....

  48. im-blogger, Thank you for that valuable information from Pope Benedict XV. It will prove to be a weapon against those who lead the Church with the heresy of modernism. Which rules the Church today like the days when the Arian heresy so influenced the Church all the way up to the Pope of that time.

  49. My thanks to im-blogger and Johannes de Silentio (despite the latter's all-too-Kierkegaardian handle). Hard facts and documentary evidence make so much better reading than hot air!

  50. Matthew said..."Why not instead instruct him (or was it her?) in the True Faith and exhort him to convert."

    Of course. Unity is only possible through conversion.

    However modern Protestantism is infested with the heresy of Indifferentism. Unity isn't a big deal to a modern Protestant. "Church" splitting and "Church" hopping (to another denomination) is common (the average Protestant changes denominations at least 6 times in his life), and "Ecumenical seminaries" that try to present all denominational viewpoints are common (and practically necessary since there are so many divisions). Protestants just don't see a problem with doctrinal differences any more than they see different ice cream flavours as a problem. The common saying among Protestants is, you're a Christian "As long as you love Jesus" and "Believe the essentials" (which no two denominations can agree on, but let's paper that over).

    If you follow Protestant conversion stories, nearly 80% of them seem to enter a phase when they admit the Catholic Church is the One True Church, but don't (yet) convert since they're convinced they can be Catholic outside the Catholic Church in their one denomination. Old addictions to Indifferentism die hard.

    Getting a modern Protestant to even acknowledge his addiction to this heresy and the need for repentance is a big step towards unity. It's not something that one can argue a Protestant into (Protestants are used to arguing among themselves and ignoring counter arguments). Getting a Protestant to admit that division is against God's will and to get him to pray "Thy will be done" can be the first step in conversion.

  51. The pope prayed with a heretic for an hour?! God help us...

  52. "I don't think. . ."

    That's Protestantism. Not that you do not think at all, but that when you do not think something is so or when conversely you think something is so - that is it. Your opinion is lex et auctoritas.

    Do you know how you say opinion in Greek?

    Regards what is being labelled as over-reacting. Yes Wojtyła prayed publically with heretics and pagans. I am not so clear on Benedictus (at which events, where and when), but I always had the strong sense from the man and his writings that he likely was praying for the conversion of those in question. I cannot say the same for someone who personally requests "blessings" from them.

    I spoke with my priest just the day before yesterday. He told me he is now living through his eighth Roman Pontiff. This is my second. I think the return to this indifference and heteropraxis of Wojtyła stings us younger Catholics more because we have only ever heard of it. In the complaints, uttered in anger or sadness, by those who lived through Paulus VI and Ioannes Paulus II; in books and old lectures.

    "I feel like I'm back in my old college seminary days in the 70's."

    That was twenty years before I was born - and I am right there with you. And I do not like it.

    - adulescens

  53. Many people I think continue to forget that this is the first Pope who was NOT present at the Second Vatican Council and also was ordained a priest in 1969, the same year the NEW MASS was started. This is the years of Pope Paul starting to send mixed signals like praying with the Archbishop of Canterbury together in the Sistine Chapel. Ven Paul seem to consider the Anglicans as "sister churches" unlike the more recent Popes JPII and Benedict XVI

  54. Here is a fact. Bl. Pope John Paul ll at Assisi never prayed with heretics and pagans. Each religion prayed their own prayers with their own people. Many have the information wrong. They did not pray united together. Muslims prayed with Muslims, Jews with Jews, Pagans with pagans, Protestants with Protestants, Orthodox with Orthodox and Roman Catholics with Roman Catholics. Of course some liberals had to ruin the party. Some Franciscans allowed other religions to use the Basilica for their prayers. Deliberately violating the rules set down by the Holy Father. Modernists always have to somehow spread their poison and cause confusion.

  55. Anonymous7:59 PM

    "Here is a fact. Bl. Pope John Paul ll at Assisi never prayed with heretics and pagans. Each religion prayed their own prayers with their own people. Many have the information wrong. They did not pray united together. Muslims prayed with Muslims, Jews with Jews, Pagans with pagans, Protestants with Protestants, Orthodox with Orthodox and Roman Catholics with Roman Catholics."

    And he encouraged them to do so. he called them there and so they could offer false worship for false principles. Who cares if he didn't actually pray TO their gods; doesn't it strike you funny that such an event, sanctioned by the Supreme Pontiff, happened to begin with? Turn on your Catholic sense and look at this objectively. This is just another variation on the 'it's the liberal application, not the Pope's fault' excuse.

  56. GMMF - the problem is that when he said that they together sought unity, it seems as though the Pope has to seek unity with him, and not only him with Pope. It seems as though Catholics need to sacrifice the Truth in order to achieve unity, and that the others have to do nothing.

    "unity among us. " - no. unity with us.

    yes they were baptized - but they fell of in the darkness.

    and reunion on newadvent is speaking about union amongst the protestants, not them with us. there is no unity of them with us without conversion to the True Faith. one has to leave all things behind and follow Christ, be it arianism or protestantism.


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